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1:34

right, let's do this. How

1:36

are you? What the fuckers?

1:38

What the fuck buddies? What

1:40

the fuck, Knicks? What the

1:42

fuck tuckians? What the fuck

1:45

tuckians? Yes, what the

1:47

fuck tuckians? What the

1:49

fuck tuckians? I'm in

1:51

what the fuck Kentucky?

1:53

What the fuck, Kentucky?

1:55

What the fuck tucky?

1:57

I'm taping this in your

1:59

state. How's it going? Well,

2:01

that's all just ask that to

2:04

the world. How are all you

2:06

WTO people doing? How is it

2:08

going out there? Is it a

2:10

day-to-day slog through fear and hopelessness

2:13

and panic and food and more

2:15

food and some movies and some

2:17

doom scrolling and some fear and

2:20

some panic and some hopelessness and

2:22

Oh, look, come here, Come here,

2:24

that's it. Pet the dog, hey,

2:26

hey, hey, hey, pet the cat,

2:29

fear, hopelessness, panic, food, more food,

2:31

how about an errand? Yeah, let's

2:33

go pick up the thing at

2:36

the place. All right, great. Oh,

2:38

I love it. Panic, fear, food.

2:40

How about another movie? Okay, what's

2:43

going on? Just, I'm just trying

2:45

to recap the days. I have

2:47

been out on the road, as

2:49

you can hear, I'm not in

2:52

the garage, I'm in a high-ceiling

2:54

hotel room. It looks like it's

2:56

literally built to have echo and

2:59

bounce. So enjoy that. I am

3:01

in, right now, I am recording

3:03

in Lexington, Kentucky, before my show

3:05

yesterday. I will say this trip

3:08

has been... It's been interesting and

3:10

odd to me to travel in

3:12

the South in this new world

3:15

that we are entering, being dragged

3:17

into. Maybe I should say that

3:19

before I start rambling, I'd like

3:22

to say that I have Kerry

3:24

Coon on the show. She's been

3:26

on the series like The Leftovers,

3:28

The Gilded Age, Fargo, she's in

3:31

movies like Gone Girl, The Nest,

3:33

The Nest, and his three daughters.

3:35

You can see her now on

3:38

the new season of White Lotus.

3:40

She's... married to Tracy Let's, and

3:42

I can say that with confidence.

3:44

Who for some WTO trivia? Out

3:47

of all the guests that I've

3:49

had on this show over the

3:51

years, people always ask me, do

3:54

you hang out with any of

3:56

them after? You know, not comics,

3:58

not guys I already know, but

4:01

have I made friends with anybody

4:03

who has been on the show?

4:05

And yes, Tracy Let's is my

4:07

friend. And I can say that

4:10

with confidence. and I am today

4:12

interviewing his brilliant wife who is

4:14

a great actress. So there you

4:17

go. It's all set up. I

4:19

want to sneak this in too

4:21

before I start babbling aimlessly. I

4:23

will be at Largo. Tomorrow night

4:26

in Los Angeles. I just want

4:28

to make sure that that's out

4:30

there because I feel like I've

4:33

not worn out my welcome in

4:35

LA, but I feel like everybody

4:37

who wants to see me, has

4:39

seen me here. or in LA,

4:42

and that they assume that, you

4:44

know, like, well, is he going

4:46

to do the same stuff? I'm

4:49

not always, I rarely do the

4:51

same set. But I do want

4:53

to put that out there. Largo

4:56

at the Coronet tomorrow night in

4:58

Los Angeles, that's Tuesday, February, February

5:00

25th. Then I got another red

5:02

state run. I'll be in Oklahoma

5:05

City at the Tower Theater on

5:07

Thursday, March 6th. Dallas. I'm at

5:09

the Majestic Theater Friday March 7th.

5:12

I'll be in Houston at the

5:14

White Oak Music Hall on Saturday

5:16

March 8th. San Antonio at the

5:18

Empire Theater on Sunday March 9th.

5:21

Yeah San Antonio look I don't

5:23

know how many of you listen

5:25

or give a shit but you

5:28

know that that shows looking a

5:30

little lighter than I'd like. I

5:32

don't want it to be a

5:35

strange isolated experience for the diehards

5:37

that come so I'm not begging.

5:39

I'm just trying to get it

5:41

out there. Maybe you didn't hear

5:44

me say it, but San Antonio.

5:46

All right, you listen in Empire

5:48

Theater, Sunday, March 9th, and then

5:51

I'm going to South by Southwest

5:53

to let everybody watch a fairly

5:55

detailed and thorough documentary about me,

5:57

and some of the subtexts are

6:00

my inability to pull my pants

6:02

up. You know, look for that.

6:04

If you're seeing the documentary chart,

6:07

the sort of drooping of Mark's

6:09

pants. I don't know why I

6:11

think no one notices that. I

6:14

mean I feel like I pull

6:16

them up enough and I feel

6:18

more comfortable when they, when they're

6:20

a little though, but I'm not

6:23

looking for them to hang out

6:25

on, you know, off of my

6:27

ass, you know, just hang, you

6:30

know, I just, you know, I

6:32

just, I like the doc, you

6:34

know, it's hard to watch myself,

6:36

but yeah, maybe there's a little

6:39

Easter egg in there for you.

6:41

Is that what you call them?

6:43

At some point, keep, you know,

6:46

keep an eye out because, you

6:48

know, because You will, towards the

6:50

end of the film, see my

6:52

naked ass because I'm bending over

6:55

to put something in the oven.

6:57

I, you know, just look out

6:59

for it. That's a big, that's

7:02

a, it's a big payoff after

7:04

an hour of just, you know,

7:06

drooping pants to get, you know,

7:09

to finally get the punchline. I

7:11

will be in Durham North Carolina

7:13

at the Carolina Theater of Durham

7:15

on Friday, March 21st. I'll be

7:18

in Charlotte, North Carolina at the

7:20

Night Theater on Saturday, March 22nd.

7:22

And Charleston, South Carolina, I'm at

7:25

the Charleston Music Hall on Sunday,

7:27

March 23rd. Little Mark Marin trivia.

7:29

The last time I was in

7:31

Charleston, and that show could use

7:34

some people too, but I'm not

7:36

expecting massive marin crowds in thoroughly

7:38

red places, but the last time

7:41

I did Charleston, some guy brought

7:43

a pre... psychotic Nancy Mace to

7:45

the show. She was always Republican,

7:48

but there was a point there

7:50

where she was... relatively reasonable and

7:52

now she's just a fucking clown.

7:54

But someone brought her to my

7:57

show. She was there on a

7:59

date with a guy who was

8:01

a fan of mine and after

8:04

the show I remember meeting her

8:06

and she was slightly panicked. She

8:08

said, I don't know what I'm

8:10

doing here. I don't know what

8:13

I'm doing here. I don't know

8:15

what I'm doing at this show.

8:17

I don't know what I'm doing

8:20

at this show. I don't know

8:22

what I'm doing here. I don't

8:24

know what I'm doing at this

8:26

show. a little bit frenetic. I'm

8:29

glad that she got to see

8:31

me and that I delivered the

8:33

goods into that jumbled attention-seeking, morally

8:36

bankrupt brain of hers. I'm coming

8:38

to Illinois, Michigan, Toronto, Vermont, New

8:40

Hampshire, and New York City for

8:43

my special taping, so you can

8:45

go to wtfpod.com/tour for any of

8:47

my dates and links. to tickets.

8:49

So that's that. That's where we're

8:52

at. This episode is sponsored by

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I've been trying to do some

10:01

reading out here on the road

10:03

and been reading Sydney Lumet's book

10:05

about directing movies, which has been

10:07

helpful. I've really kind of taken

10:10

my time doing that homework because

10:12

hopefully I will be directing a

10:14

film towards the beginning of next

10:17

year. And I've been reading how

10:19

fascism works, the politics of us

10:21

and them, by Jason Stanley, which,

10:23

you know, I was only about

10:26

halfway through and then I realized,

10:28

like, I don't know if I

10:30

need to finish it because I

10:33

can just pick up where the

10:35

book left off with my news

10:37

feed. Yes, kind of a joke,

10:39

but kind of not, right? I'm

10:42

not enjoying this space for recording,

10:44

but this is what it's going

10:46

to be. So yeah, I've been

10:49

out here. I've been in the

10:51

South. I've toured the South many

10:53

times before I've been down here

10:56

a lot I always have I

10:58

Always end up being paranoid and

11:00

and wondering about how I'll be

11:02

received or or what the people

11:05

are like down here and generally

11:07

in the past I've come away

11:09

thinking like well those crowds were

11:12

great and everybody seemed real nice

11:14

and I had a nice time

11:16

to see and everybody and you

11:18

know had no problems This time,

11:21

whether it's my mind or a

11:23

reality, not as comfortable. Not as

11:25

comfortable. Though the crowds have been

11:28

great. Truly great. I mean, Asheville

11:30

at the Orange Peel was spectacular.

11:32

I love the people of Asheville.

11:35

I saw my buddy Stan and

11:37

Lori. They got a house over

11:39

there and I took a ride

11:41

down where the floods were. kind

11:44

of addressed you know the fires

11:46

and talked about natural disasters with

11:48

the audience but the place was

11:51

packed and it's always it's still

11:53

it's a sweet town and it

11:55

seems to be bouncing back and

11:57

my people came out because they

12:00

are there there it is a

12:02

kind of blue dot, as they

12:04

call them. I'm a little bit

12:07

concerned with the blue dots being

12:09

erased somehow. But then again, I'm

12:11

concerned about all of us being

12:14

erased somehow, at least in our

12:16

ability to speak and organize publicly.

12:18

And then after Asheville, Ali Makovsky

12:20

and I, my opener, drove to

12:23

Nashville, that was quite a ride.

12:25

Quite a ride. I'd never taken

12:27

that ride. through the Blue Mountains,

12:30

through Appalachia, is that you say

12:32

it? I used to say Appalachia,

12:34

but I think it's Appalachia. And

12:36

it's beautiful in a very kind

12:39

of rugged way, but the nature

12:41

is beautiful. The small towns are

12:43

a little beat up, but picturesque

12:46

and you can make assumptions about

12:48

whatever's happening now. But I do

12:50

know one thing. That I've experienced

12:52

traveling through the south this time

12:55

is that it it is very

12:57

rural in most places and very

12:59

spread out and You know, it's

13:02

not congested in any way the

13:04

cities the smaller cities certainly aren't

13:06

they're a little bit congested, but

13:09

they're small and Everything is very

13:11

spread out, you know, one or

13:13

two houses sometimes for hundreds of

13:15

acres and I don't You know,

13:18

I know that this is whatever

13:21

this part of America is, however

13:23

you want to refer to it,

13:25

to fly over state or the

13:27

South or whatever, or rural America.

13:30

And I understand that's what a

13:32

lot of the country looks like,

13:34

but I do not guess I

13:36

understand why they're so worked up

13:39

about the foundations of democracy functioning.

13:41

They live, it seems, fairly isolated

13:43

lives, and I think that, you

13:46

know, they just fill their brains

13:48

with garbage. As I moved through

13:50

this tour, I've been down here

13:52

five days in the South and

13:55

moving through the South, it's felt

13:57

like a month and it's way

13:59

heavy on me that I like

14:01

living in a large city and

14:04

I know that on some levels

14:06

to the people that live in

14:08

these other places where the enemy

14:10

we live in a bubble but

14:13

our bubble may be a very

14:15

large bubble in terms of the

14:17

scope and size of the city

14:19

but it is a functioning democratic

14:22

bubble in a lot of ways

14:24

because the city I live in

14:26

is very well integrated and there's

14:29

all kinds of people there thousands

14:31

of them and I find that

14:33

comforting and human and tolerant and

14:35

all the things that seems to

14:38

be on the menu for you

14:40

know getting rid of and it's

14:42

really not about you know, an

14:44

arrogance or an elitism or anything

14:47

else. It's just, I like being

14:49

around a lot of different kinds

14:51

of people who have different paths,

14:53

different backgrounds, different ethnicities, different approaches

14:56

to life and food and everything

14:58

else. It just seems to be

15:00

a celebration of humanity. We're out

15:03

here, I don't know. It's pretty

15:05

one-dimensional in a lot of ways.

15:07

And I just think a lot

15:09

of the fury is stoked. by

15:12

misinformation that they get from the

15:14

thing that they hold in their

15:16

hand or else from the thing

15:18

that they watch. I don't know,

15:21

but it's weighing heavy on me

15:23

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16:22

All right, good. Oh, another high

16:24

point of the trip. I'd done

16:26

a tour with Ali before and

16:29

we had driven... by a buccies,

16:31

I think somewhere on the coast

16:33

of California. And she goes, have

16:35

you been to buccies? And I'm

16:38

like, I have not been to

16:40

buccies. And she goes, you've got

16:42

to go to buccies. But we'd

16:44

already passed it. And I'm like,

16:47

all right, someday I'll go to

16:49

buccies. And we were in, I

16:51

guess we were driving from maybe

16:53

Asheville to Nashville. And there was

16:56

a sign for a buckies. And

16:58

she said, we gotta go. And

17:00

I'm like, it's a truck stop,

17:03

right? She goes, no, it's its

17:05

own thing. It is a truck

17:07

stop, but it is, it's like

17:09

the Walmart of truck stops. I

17:12

have never seen anything like it,

17:14

and I'm happy I went to

17:16

Buckeys because it's like going to

17:18

the America that you don't get

17:21

when you live on the coast

17:23

or in a city. Something. Buckies,

17:25

the logo is a beaver. It's

17:27

a little beaver, a cute little

17:30

beaver guy. And this truck stop

17:32

is huge. All right, they have

17:34

all the things a truck stop

17:36

has, but much more. I can't

17:39

even describe it. I stood before

17:41

the wall of jerky. A wall.

17:43

A wall of packaged jerky. And

17:46

I'm talking a wall. A wall.

17:48

A wall of which would be

17:50

a good name for an album

17:52

or perhaps a band. So there's

17:55

a wall of jerky and then

17:57

they have sort of a butcher

17:59

shop. set up with some meats

18:01

but mostly jerky in the case

18:03

all kinds of jerky and then

18:06

there's a food station in

18:08

the middle where they make

18:10

brisket sandwiches egg sandwiches like

18:13

and people love the brisket

18:15

huge food court within the

18:17

buckies okay and across from

18:19

the wall of jerky there's the

18:22

faith-based boutique I guess you would

18:24

call it with you know, a

18:26

lot of kind of Christian oriented

18:29

fun t-shirts. And then they have

18:31

the Buckeys t-shirts, and then they

18:33

have the coffee station, and then

18:36

they have, you know, other clothing,

18:38

and then they have, you know,

18:40

the cigarette counter. And it is,

18:43

if you wanted to shrink a

18:45

Walmart a little bit and make

18:47

it everything that a truck stop

18:50

has, but much more, that's Buckeys. And

18:52

you get a, you know, you do

18:54

get a sense. You know, there, again,

18:56

back in the day, if I would

18:58

have gone to the South, I would

19:00

have thought, like, well, look at all

19:03

these, you know, people are just traveling.

19:05

They're just nice people. But it's very

19:07

hard to separate my sense of

19:10

why this country is heading the

19:12

direction it's headed from the people

19:14

standing with me before the jerky

19:17

wall. But again, I don't want

19:19

to be judgmental or divisive.

19:21

but I think it's too

19:23

late. I think we are

19:25

divided and heavily judging each

19:28

other and the victors are

19:30

going to eliminate our

19:32

ability to judge publicly.

19:35

Just my, it's just, I'm

19:37

just talking, just talking, you

19:40

know, that's all, just chatting.

19:42

So look, Kerry Coon is

19:44

my guest. and it was exciting

19:46

to have the conversation with her

19:49

that I had. She's on season

19:51

three of White Lotus with new

19:53

episodes airing Sunday nights on HBO.

19:55

You can stream it on Max

19:57

and this is me talking to

20:00

Kerry. Cune. My

20:03

voice, I've

20:06

had this

20:09

fucking flu

20:13

A man. This is three

20:15

weeks. What is it? My voice

20:17

is destroyed. What is it? You're going to

20:20

get this sexy, the sexy version of

20:22

me. What was it a flu voice? A flu A?

20:24

I just, they call it's influenza A. It's what

20:26

all the kids at school had. So what

20:28

my kids got it, I got it, Tracy

20:30

God. We all got it. Yeah. My

20:33

voice hasn't come back. Really. No. That's

20:35

the thing about kids, you're doing press.

20:37

Oh God, you're just sick all the

20:39

time. Sick all the time. Sounds great.

20:41

And they recover, thank you. They recover

20:43

so fast. But it's rewarding, right?

20:46

I actually, yeah, I'm become a

20:48

real, like, pro-natalist person. I believe

20:50

in having children, but I

20:52

believe in having children, but

20:54

I also believe now maybe you shouldn't,

20:56

because we're all going to die. But

20:59

I also believe it doesn't matter where

21:01

they go to school or anything. But

21:03

you have one at home, no? What

21:05

do you mean? Like an idea of

21:07

how we'd like to raise them? Sure.

21:09

Yeah, I'm like, you know, building

21:11

a Mormon pantry. Sure, yeah, treat

21:14

people how you wish to be

21:16

treated, and also get ready.

21:18

You're going to have to distill

21:20

water with a tarp and a

21:22

hole. Yeah, so you give them

21:24

that. And like shoot people to

21:27

protect your food. And like shoot

21:29

people to protect your food. Not

21:31

yet. No, I'm protecting our house

21:33

and, you know. But so the

21:35

prepper mentality happens when they're in

21:37

their teens probably? Probably. Yeah, you're

21:39

gonna buy the guns? I mean, there's

21:41

probably some camp I can send them too

21:44

soon that we start to teach them how

21:46

to make a fire, skin a squirrel. Unfortunately,

21:48

it might come with an ideology you're not happy

21:50

with. I mean, look, it's a fine line these

21:52

days. Is it? Yeah, the far right and the

21:54

far left are closer than ever. Yeah, it's

21:56

come full circle. People. People always say that.

21:58

People always say that. I agree. I don't, you

22:01

know, there aren't just like entire groups of

22:03

people I want to put on a train

22:05

and send to a camp. Well, maybe I'm

22:07

slowly moving that way too. Which people would

22:10

they be? I'm not going to say that.

22:12

But some of my people, no, honestly though,

22:14

I do think, I do think there's no

22:16

paradigm. I think the world our kids will

22:18

live in is... I mean, you're paying any

22:21

attention to climate scientists, which you know, you

22:23

know what we're in for, it's devastating. Yeah,

22:25

I know, I just, you know, you can't

22:27

think about it all the time. Well, there's

22:29

always just hope that I'd get out under

22:32

the wire. Right. But I don't have kids.

22:34

So, you know, you could take the pill.

22:36

Tracy's taking the pill. He's like, I'm cyanide

22:38

pill, I'm out. Oh, really? Yeah, he's not

22:40

going to fight. He's like, I'm too old

22:43

for this. Not yet. But, you know, we're

22:45

not there yet. I'm just, it's all like,

22:47

you know, on a little graph paper, plans.

22:49

Yeah, I don't understand completely the sort of

22:51

idea of prepping for the end so you

22:54

can live after it. What's that life? Well,

22:56

here's the thing, Mark. When you have kids,

22:58

you have to consider how to keep your

23:00

children alive. Yeah, because that's your fundamental responsibility.

23:02

I think you could talk him out of

23:05

it. I don't think so. He's pretty committed.

23:07

Yeah, I mean, he's had a very full

23:09

life, Mark, you know. He really has. He's

23:11

been very successful. It's all ultimately sort of

23:13

empty and meaningless, that was the thing. Is

23:16

it? Yeah, it doesn't matter. I mean, do

23:18

you like to think it matters for a

23:20

little while? If you can get a six

23:22

months. No, but six months of recognition and

23:24

you think you're in Hollywood. That's about right?

23:27

You move the sort of artistic ball forward

23:29

a bit. Yeah, I guess. I guess you

23:31

get the power of no, like you get

23:33

to say no to things. That's the real.

23:35

Is that like the glorious power of? I

23:38

mean, when you write a play, is he

23:40

still hopelessly believes in the power of art

23:42

he believes in it more than I do

23:44

why I mean I think that real artists

23:46

have to believe that I get cynical about

23:49

it because I'm like yeah so what song's

23:51

gonna get us out of this right you

23:53

know yeah that no one goes to is

23:55

going to change the type of fashion. I

23:57

mean, the last play he wrote was about

24:00

fascism. He's like, literally, nobody came. And when

24:02

it was still running, the New York Times

24:04

didn't even write about it. Yeah, so that's

24:06

going to work. That's going to hold the

24:08

line. So if nobody saw my fascism play,

24:11

I guess I'm done. Yeah, if no one

24:13

sees a fascism play. Which play was that?

24:15

The minutes, did you not see the minutes?

24:17

I don't think I did see them. Oh

24:19

Mark, it's so good. It's hard for me

24:22

to see theater out here. I did go

24:24

see. It's hard for me to see theater

24:26

in New York. Yes, yeah, you saw it

24:28

out here. That was great. Yeah, I know,

24:30

it's such a, I mean, it's a Steely

24:33

Dan. He's a character, a steely dance song.

24:35

Well him. We split paths. We split paths.

24:37

I mean, I mean, it's a Steely Dan.

24:39

I mean, I mean, I mean it's such

24:41

a Steely Dan. I mean, I mean it's

24:44

a Steely Dan. I mean, I mean it's

24:46

a Steely Dan. I mean it's a Steely

24:48

Dan. I mean it's a Steely Dan. I

24:50

mean it's a Steely. I mean, it's a

24:52

Steely. I mean it's a steely. It's a

24:55

steely. It's a steely. It's a steely Kind

24:57

of opposite ends of the same generation. So

24:59

you think about this end of the world

25:01

thing all the time? Yes. And what are

25:04

you trying to really, have you reconciled it

25:06

in a real way? No, no, no. I

25:08

think, you know, isn't sort of the responsibility

25:10

of any human being to prepare yourself for

25:12

death? So I feel like I think about

25:15

death all the time in order to prepare

25:17

myself for the inevitability of the dissolution of

25:19

everything around us. Well, let me ask you

25:21

a question. So I can be at peace

25:23

with it. Well, that's, well, that, I mean,

25:26

be a peace with your own death, but

25:28

then be a peace with, you know, the

25:30

planetary death or, you know, the death in,

25:32

you know, starving in a camp somewhere. Right,

25:34

exactly. Because you're an actress. Yeah, I'll be

25:37

on the, yeah, I'll be on the train,

25:39

I'll be on the train, for sure, for

25:41

sure. For sure. For sure. For sure. Absolutely.

25:43

Is it going to be trains? Not anymore.

25:45

Our infrastructure is really broken down. We don't

25:48

really have the infrastructure for the trains. But

25:50

I mean in terms of like really dealing

25:52

with that death thing, I mean as an

25:54

actor person, because I feel like I can

25:56

intellectually write my brain around it, but to

25:59

really feel the terror. of it. It's a

26:01

whole different story. Like I somehow am another

26:03

one night in bed I'd got myself into

26:05

a situation where I was pretty sure I

26:07

had cancer. And I felt the terror of

26:10

it, and it made me realize, like, I'm

26:12

not prepared for this at all. Yeah, I

26:14

think that's real. Tracy went through a couple

26:16

of health scares like that. But for him,

26:18

it was like, oh, my children are so

26:21

young. Now, right? Now, now for him, it's

26:23

about, now for him, it's about his kids.

26:25

Well, they both happened when he was already

26:27

had children. Really. So he was really, you

26:29

know, he's had other brushes with death with

26:32

death with death. But yeah. But yeah. But

26:34

yeah, I mean, I mean, I mean, I

26:36

mean, I mean, I mean, Wow, what you

26:38

do to sustain your children in the event

26:40

of your death or if you're leaving your

26:43

children too soon? But what about some spiritual

26:45

foundation? Anything? That's, we really struggle with that

26:47

because I'm a recovering Catholic. And Tracy's... For

26:49

a long Catholic? I mean, I was like,

26:51

you know, my, no, I mean, my dad,

26:54

my dad almost became a Catholic priest. He

26:56

went to Bormillo Seminary in Cleveland. He and

26:58

my mom went out to dinner and got

27:00

engaged because they've been making out since fourth

27:02

grade. And he always took us to church.

27:05

And he always took us to church. And

27:07

he got us confirmed and we were baptized.

27:09

But my mom's mom was a scientist. She

27:11

was a science. She didn't let any of

27:13

the chaplains in her room when she was

27:16

dying. She was like, get the fuck out

27:18

of here. Really? Yeah, no, she was not

27:20

interested. She wanted to donate her body to

27:22

science. So no hell that you believed? I

27:24

mean, no, absolutely. All I wanted, Mark, was

27:27

the statue of Mary to talk to me.

27:29

I just wanted to be special. I was

27:31

a middle child. Nobody was paying any attention.

27:33

And I wanted, you know, I just wanted

27:35

to, like, all the, I feel like all

27:38

the women teaching catechism talked about was like

27:40

Mary appearing in Megagore. Yeah, yeah, sure. I

27:42

just wanted to, like, all the, I feel

27:44

like all the women teaching catechism talked about

27:46

was like Mary appearing in Megagoree, and I

27:49

was like Mary, like Mary appearing, like Mary

27:51

appearing, like Mary appearing, like Mary appearing, like

27:53

Mary appearing, like Mary appearing, like Mary appearing,

27:55

she, she, believe it? Yeah, sure. It's very

27:57

romantic. Yeah, fun. I mean, are you kidding

28:00

me? Like the power of guilt and shame

28:02

in my life up until I was probably

28:04

30 was so... Up until this morning. everything.

28:06

Yeah, but it's still a real thing. It

28:09

didn't stick with you. No doubt. But the

28:11

guilt and shame religious as opposed to just

28:13

free floating is probably more specific. I mean

28:15

guilt and shame is also like a parenting

28:17

strategy that people relied on for decades I

28:20

think. That's how you imparted like the moral,

28:22

right? You're moral, is all based on guilt

28:24

and shame. Yeah. It's still a real thing.

28:26

It didn't stick with you. because I did

28:28

some work on myself and I met, I

28:31

met somebody who I fundamentally realized could like

28:33

handle anything I had, which I never believe,

28:35

I didn't trust anyone before that. I don't,

28:37

I don't either. No, that's a real thing,

28:39

Mark. But you can work on it. Yeah,

28:42

but what, okay, so with the work you

28:44

did, what was it that you couldn't trust

28:46

them with? Was it real or was it

28:48

just some weird childlike thing that the fear

28:50

wasn't practical? Well, it is, it's real insofar

28:53

as it's impacting your life. I mean, I

28:55

think when you're growing up in the Midwest

28:57

and my parents, I grew up in Ohio.

28:59

It's called Copley, it's outside of Akron. So

29:01

it's like, Akron's a very urban area, but

29:04

we were in a very rural area. They'd

29:06

been in my family since the 1800s. But

29:08

it's pretty, right? It's beautiful, I loved growing

29:10

up in the 1800s. Since the 1800s. Yeah,

29:12

my dad's family lived on that property, actually.

29:15

Was it a farm? Yeah, it was a

29:17

farm. Where did they come from? Scandinavia. Oh,

29:19

my dad's families, mostly, like my grandma was

29:21

some French, French. Oh really? They're all like

29:23

European months and my mom's side was mostly

29:26

Hungarian. Wasn't part of the Midwest-Sweed invasion? No,

29:28

no. I don't have much of that, I

29:30

don't think. Oh yeah, yeah. I think I'm

29:32

more Neanderthal than sweet. Oh, okay. Yeah. So,

29:34

and what, so how does that impact you?

29:37

Well, it's, how does that impact you? Well,

29:39

it's just, you know, Midwest. I mean, my

29:41

parents were raised by people who grew up,

29:43

so then he had to find, you know.

29:45

vocation. What is it about people who want

29:48

to become priests? Well, what was his trauma?

29:50

Is it romantic to be... Well, here's the

29:52

other thing. My dad was really smart and

29:54

he wanted to get a good education. The

29:56

seminary had that. So he got, you know,

29:59

classically educated in Latin New York. But you

30:01

got to forego all the passions. Yeah, I

30:03

mean it's very it's but like it's such

30:05

theater like church is theater and now my

30:07

dad is Found his way back to the

30:10

theater. Yeah, he's found like this troop of

30:12

guys at his bar and they did they're

30:14

just did Harvey Really and now he's like

30:16

helping them write a play it's very real

30:18

and now he's like helping them write a

30:21

play it's very I'm so proud to play

30:23

it's very I'm so helping them write a

30:25

play it play it's very good You kind

30:27

of can't place it. I specialize in those.

30:29

Everybody thinks I'm, you know, like not American

30:32

or I'm deaf. They think I'm German or

30:34

deaf. They think I talk funny. But that's

30:36

interesting. So you recognize it as theatrics early

30:38

on? Sure. Oh yeah, I wanted it. I

30:40

wanted to be part of it. I loved

30:43

the church. Yeah. I love to punishing myself.

30:45

How many siblings you have? Four. I'm the

30:47

dead middle of five. So that's pretty Catholic.

30:49

That's pretty Catholic. I mean, they're Americans in

30:51

the Midwest, it's not great. It's really hard.

30:54

It's hard to make a living, it's hard

30:56

to pay your bills. My siblings have sort

30:58

of various degrees, they're like, you know, we

31:00

sort of are kind of representative of a

31:03

certain kind of American family, right, that's been

31:05

here for many generations. You know, some of

31:07

us went to college and some of us

31:09

didn't, you know, one of them's an immigrant,

31:11

and I mean, we just have, we kind

31:14

of represent all of represent all things, you

31:16

know just kind of as I think mentally

31:18

ill and struggles in the world yeah yeah

31:20

and you know was not from is El

31:22

Salvadoran and you know has the adopted child

31:25

like the always gonna feel like she was

31:27

abandoned on some level oh yeah it's really

31:29

an intense psychology to be adopted yeah my

31:31

My brother has three adopted kids. Yeah, it's

31:33

really, and back then, when my sister was

31:36

adopted from El Salvador, which was in the

31:38

middle of a civil war, they were just

31:40

like, good luck, Christians, there was no trauma

31:42

counseling, there was no sense of like, telling

31:44

my parents, like, hey, get ready, there could

31:47

be some real deep psychological shit going on.

31:49

Yeah. They weren't, and they come from a

31:51

generation that like, it's all stoicismism. Nobody was

31:53

going to therapy was going to therapy. And

31:55

is there a full political spectrum amongst the

31:58

siblings? My family, no, my family is very

32:00

classically liberal because my dad, again, he was

32:02

educated. Liberal Catholic. Yeah, he was like, he

32:04

was a humanist. My dad understands that there

32:06

are other religions, that God, he believes in

32:09

God, but he believes that God will appeal

32:11

to different people in different ways, which I

32:13

think is a really respectful way to think

32:15

about it. And my mom's kind of like,

32:17

I treat everybody the same if that's wrong,

32:20

I am going to hell. But emergency room

32:22

nurse, that's intense. It is intense. So it's

32:24

life and death every day. Yeah, it is.

32:26

And she would just like smoke cigarettes at

32:28

the kitchen table and look at the obituaries

32:31

who died, you know. But like that relationship,

32:33

I talked to Noah Wiley about that because

32:35

he's got that new show on, the pit.

32:37

Just, you know, you're understanding and intimacy with

32:39

mortality and the fragility of. of the human

32:42

body is just like day in and day

32:44

out. Absolutely. And I think my and like

32:46

none of those nurses go to the doctor

32:48

and they like all smoke. I mean they're

32:50

so aware of. just how tenuous it all

32:53

is. And I think my mom is, you

32:55

know, my mom is not a person of

32:57

faith. And I would say that she's probably

32:59

on the spectrum, like, very afraid of death.

33:01

Whereas my dad feels genuinely prepared and ready

33:04

to go. Yeah, which his parents also were.

33:06

They were practicing Catholics, they were practicing. They

33:08

were, practicing Catholics. Yeah, which his parents also

33:10

were. They were practicing Catholics or the smoking

33:12

or the smoking or anything else is. for

33:15

this dopamine world. Yeah, they're prepared. Yeah, they're

33:17

ready to go. Like they got a bag

33:19

to pack to help. Yeah, right. And she

33:21

was, she. She was always, she was a

33:23

really good nurse. I mean, she was really

33:26

good at her job, but sometimes I think

33:28

that also got the best of her, you

33:30

know, like her energy was put into that.

33:32

Yeah, she worked at late. And five kids.

33:34

And she slept during the day. Yeah. And

33:37

you know, when Marianne Jean-Baptiste wakes up in

33:39

that, in the new Mike Lee movie, or

33:41

now she like wakes up and throws her

33:43

pillows, that was the way my mom always

33:45

woke up, it was terrifying. That movie was

33:48

gnarly. Yeah, it's hard to watch, but he

33:50

really does capture a certain kind of person

33:52

who you're just like, oh, no, what happened

33:54

to you. I talked to him, he's a

33:57

beautiful man, that guy. Yeah, well, he makes

33:59

beautiful films. Unbelievable. We don't even have somebody

34:01

who's treating the working class like that in

34:03

this country. He's a singular guy. He really,

34:05

I would love to be involved in a

34:08

process like that. I think it's so interesting.

34:10

You should do a mic. Yeah, well, yeah,

34:12

you're right. Let me call him. That's not

34:14

really how this works, Mark. That's not how

34:16

this works. Well, sometimes it is. Are you?

34:19

Yeah, of course. I kind of did a

34:21

small crash course in some of the stuff

34:23

you did. And I'm a little traumatized because

34:25

I watched. No, what did you want to

34:27

the leftovers? No, I watched The Nest. Oh,

34:30

yeah. And then I watched Gone Girl. Uh-huh,

34:32

yeah, first movie. But The Nest, I never

34:34

seen that before, but I saw that guy's

34:36

other movie. Yeah, you liked Martha, Marcy, May,

34:38

Marlene. I listened to your interview with Lizzy,

34:41

because of course, you know, she's my pal.

34:43

She's the best. And that movie's great. I

34:45

mean, Sean's a great filmmaker. And she's magnificent.

34:47

What is it about that? You know, because

34:49

I just, I watched another indie movie the

34:52

other movie the other night, because my friends

34:54

in it, and there's my friends in it,

34:56

and there's a real difference, and there's a

34:58

real difference between. Filmmakers who are just honoring

35:00

a script in a very sort of basic

35:03

way to execute the script and then filmmakers

35:05

who have a like a real full vision

35:07

Yeah, like they and it happens a lot

35:09

with comedies independent comedies. I don't even know

35:11

why people do them because I mean, because

35:14

it's so like if you look at a

35:16

script and it's oh, this is a funny

35:18

scene. Yeah. To make it funny on camera

35:20

for everybody, you gotta have really have some

35:22

magic. Or else it's just going to be

35:25

like, oh, okay. I mean, but that guy,

35:27

the guy who did the nest, he seems

35:29

to have a real understanding. I mean, his

35:31

scripts are all really personal, I feel like.

35:33

He's the one who's deciding what story he

35:36

wants to tell. And then when he's on

35:38

set, he's like, you know, he's like a

35:40

great athlete. You know, the really good directors,

35:42

like that's where they're most at home is

35:44

when they're on set and doing that work.

35:47

And he and our DP, Matius Urtly, who's

35:49

an amazing, he's an amazing, he's an amazing,

35:51

they didn't, I swear, I swear to, I

35:53

swear to you, I swear to you, I

35:55

swear to you, I swear to you. They

35:58

didn't, I swear to you. They communicated telepathically,

36:00

I've never seen anything like it. They would

36:02

just kind of walk around in a circle,

36:04

putting their, you know, stroking their chins, and

36:06

then they would just nod, and then we

36:09

would do the shot, and they never said

36:11

a word. And then pretty soon you found

36:13

yourself also being like Sean would say, Kerry,

36:15

and you'd say, uh-huh, yes. And you knew

36:17

exactly, it was so strange, I've never experienced

36:20

anything like it like it before. Really? No.

36:22

They should see it. You're not during the

36:24

pandemic. I know it's a really good movie.

36:26

It's an adult movie. Totally adult movie and

36:28

it's surprising in a way that's not overwrought.

36:31

Yeah, thanks. Like in the sense of like

36:33

how that character of him reveals itself? Yeah.

36:35

In that one scene with the mother, you're

36:37

like, oh, this monster. Yeah, that's just a

36:39

great scene. I know, right? Yeah. And he's

36:42

like, I mean, Jude would say, I think

36:44

it's like, there's so much of his father

36:46

in it too. It's very personal. And it's

36:48

a completely real sort of depiction of a

36:50

type of guy and a type of woman

36:53

and the kids. And Gongrel, that was great,

36:55

but I mean, I know you've done a

36:57

lot of other stuff, but this is what's

36:59

in my head, what's in my head, and

37:02

I watch in my head, and I watched,

37:04

and I watched, and I watched, and I

37:06

watched, and I watched, and I watched, the

37:08

episodes of White Lotus. Oh, did they give

37:10

you one through six? One through four. They

37:13

gave you one through four. Oh, so you

37:15

haven't gotten to like when the ladies go

37:17

crazy yet, have you? I can feel it

37:19

coming. There's a lot of setup. Yeah, of

37:21

course, of course. It's all gonna. And you

37:24

were in Thailand? Yes, for six months, man.

37:26

Tracy was taking care of the kids for

37:28

six months. Is that how you got it

37:30

worked out? You don't work? Yeah, we just

37:32

don't want to like there's a there's a

37:35

version of life where you take your kids

37:37

all over the world and just like I

37:39

know I talked to actors that do that

37:41

yeah and I and I also I kind

37:43

of always thought we might be those people

37:46

when my son, you know, my son all

37:48

the way up until the pandemic when he

37:50

was two, he'd been all over with us

37:52

all around the world and on sets. And

37:54

then the pandemic hit and then we found

37:57

out maybe he's like not that kind of

37:59

kid. And they kind of tell you. Yeah,

38:01

like he really likes his routine. He loves

38:03

school. He loves his school. Yeah. and we

38:05

just don't feel good taking him out. I

38:08

don't know that any kind of kid is

38:10

necessarily like that. That's where the whole sort

38:12

of selfishness of the parent comes in. Yeah,

38:14

that's true. It's like your family culture, isn't

38:16

it? Well, what's the bargain? Like, do they

38:19

miss having a parent for six months or

38:21

six months? Or do they miss having a

38:23

parent for six months or do you drag

38:25

them for six months? Yeah, you really have

38:27

to weigh all those questions. It's hard to

38:30

balance two careers. Yeah, I think I have

38:32

three, but I have no kids. The level

38:34

of worry I have about my cats is

38:36

unnatural. Yes, right. Well, animal, it's very pure

38:38

that, you know, the animal, it's very pure

38:41

that, you know, the animal says. I guess

38:43

that's what it's. Well, animal, it's very pure

38:45

that, you know, the animal says. I don't

38:47

think most moms and the way we're. Well

38:49

yeah, it's just, it's ridiculous in a while.

38:52

Yeah, and it's such a pure kind of

38:54

grief too, it's horrible. Having animals is horrible.

38:56

I had them growing up and I just

38:58

don't want them ever again. Really because... That's

39:00

death. That's where you learn about death. Well

39:03

it's where you learn about death. You have

39:05

21 dogs since you're six. And you have

39:07

to do it. Yeah, you have to bury

39:09

them. doneed. Yeah you do. Yeah I know

39:11

I took we got we had one my

39:14

grandma and I ended up putting it down

39:16

and the vet was like oh just so

39:18

you know that was a flesh wound she

39:20

probably would have survived and we're like well

39:22

thanks for telling us shut up. Like right

39:25

now I have to go tell everybody but

39:27

we killed the dog. Oh it's the worst

39:29

and I used to avoid it because we

39:31

grew up with dogs and my mother was

39:33

more in the school of like drop. It

39:36

feels like you the right thing to do.

39:38

Yeah, but it's heavy man. It's so heavy.

39:40

It's awful. The sort of thing you got

39:42

to do with your head. It's like, well,

39:44

you know, he gave him a good life

39:47

and he wouldn't have survived out in the

39:49

wild and you know, whatever. And you're doing

39:51

the right thing. Because when you're in that

39:53

zone of like maintaining an animal's life, when

39:56

it's ridiculous. Yeah, we never got that far

39:58

because we lived in the country. But yeah,

40:00

I've seen, I've seen, I've seen, I've seen,

40:02

I've seen, people pay, you know. It's crazy.

40:04

Centatious amounts of money to keep their animals

40:07

alive. You got to let them go. You

40:09

do, I think. I think you do. That's

40:11

my personal philosophy. Let them go. What did

40:13

you do when you were a kid? Was

40:15

there an active farm? I mean, it was

40:18

not an active farm. It was like an

40:20

old farm. We had like apples and blueberries.

40:22

We didn't have animals. There were animals across

40:24

the street. You know, there was a guy

40:26

with chickens who probably died at Christmas. would

40:29

make my grandma laugh so hard to just

40:31

fall off her chair laughing. We'd be like,

40:33

Abby, Maggie, Yukon, you know, this one was

40:35

shot, this one was poisoned, this one, can

40:37

I buy a car and then shot? You

40:40

know, we would just go through the whole

40:42

litany of dogs. There is something about country

40:44

people's relationship to animals. Yeah, it's more it's

40:46

more visceral. Yeah. I mean, we're relationship to

40:48

death and animals like land. We've gotten so

40:51

far from death. It's probably good to... you

40:53

know, have your hands in the dirt that

40:55

way. I think so. I don't, you know,

40:57

I don't know. My dad's in the throws

40:59

of the dementia thing. Oh dear. That's a

41:02

hard one. And I detach from it, his

41:04

wife's still taking care of him. Yeah. But

41:06

I don't know if I'm feeling, I think

41:08

after somebody you love dies or you see

41:10

enough of it that you realize like, well,

41:13

this is. inevitable yeah and grief and loss

41:15

is inevitable yes on some level yeah and

41:17

that's just part of the thing everything you

41:19

love will die and pass away yeah if

41:21

you don't go first right it happens too

41:24

yeah you hope for the natural order of

41:26

things yeah it doesn't always go that way

41:28

of course but when you're growing up I

41:30

mean how when do you start doing the

41:32

acting business? Oh, you know, I saw, my

41:35

mom hates this story, but I saw a

41:37

play when I was 10 at the Akron

41:39

Civic Theater, which is one of those atmospheric

41:41

theaters where they have like the stars and

41:43

this, you know, on the ceiling. It was

41:46

so beautiful. And there were 10-year-old, it was

41:48

called Babes in Toyland. How old were kids

41:50

my age? I was probably like. 10. Yeah.

41:52

And I was like, whoa, those people are

41:54

my age and they're up there. Yeah. How

41:57

did they get to be up there? Yeah.

41:59

And I came home and I knew my

42:01

grandfather after he fought in the Battle of

42:03

the Bold in World War II and he

42:05

waited out. Yeah, really intense. He just passed

42:08

away last year. Did he talk about it?

42:10

He just passed away last year. Did he

42:12

talk about it? Did he talk about it?

42:14

Did he talk about it? Yeah. having shirked

42:16

death in that circumstance. Survivor's guilt? Yeah, a

42:19

little bit. That's when he started talking about

42:21

it. But he didn't like to be with

42:23

other veterans. He didn't like talking about it.

42:25

He didn't want people to know. It seems

42:27

like that generation doesn't. No. They just suck.

42:30

Can you imagine? No. The growing up you

42:32

had to do? I can't imagine. No, I

42:34

can't either. He would talk about like, you

42:36

know, seeing his commanders commanders get blown to

42:38

smithereens. And he was tracking to smithereens. And

42:41

he was tracking through the snow. And he

42:43

was tracking through the snow. And he was

42:45

tracking through the snow. You know, he was

42:47

in Arles in France. I don't know what

42:50

it was. I mean, it was just horrible.

42:52

That wasn't the one from Saved Private Ryan.

42:54

No, that's no, that was like Dee Day.

42:56

No, but it was a terrifying. The Battle

42:58

of Boulder I thought was in the snow

43:01

where they were pushing back that. Yeah, I

43:03

think you're right. Yeah, the Germans, you know,

43:05

they didn't talk about it for decades, I

43:07

feel like. I know, I just watched that.

43:09

You ever see the straight story? No. The

43:12

David Lynch movie? I haven't actually, which I'm

43:14

sure we own it, because you know, because

43:16

Tracy's insane. It's a masterpiece. And it's not

43:18

a weirdo movie. It's not like a freaky

43:20

David Lynching. It's a very straight story. Okay,

43:23

well, I'll. And there's a scene in there

43:25

between two veterans. It's like mind-blowing. Richard Farnsworth.

43:27

Oh, wow. Oh, wonderful. Yeah. Okay. Oh, it's

43:29

it's it's I can't believe I haven't seen

43:31

it. You got to see it. I'll tell

43:34

it Tracy I keep talking about it I

43:36

met some guy at the deli last night

43:38

after I did comedy. Yeah, and I was

43:40

like you've never seen that? That's how I

43:42

felt when I saw Merry Christmas, Mr. Lawrence.

43:45

I feel like I was telling everyone to

43:47

go see. I know I do that all

43:49

the time. Like I discover a movie that's

43:51

been around for decades. Well that's why Tracy

43:53

and I wanted to start like a blog

43:56

or I don't know what you do now,

43:58

a podcast or because I feel like we

44:00

are, we are, because I feel like we

44:02

are always, we are, I don't know what

44:04

you do now, a podcast or, because I

44:07

feel like we are, like dogs, like dogs,

44:09

like dogs, like dogs, like dogs, like dogs,

44:11

like dogs, like dogs, like dogs, like dogs,

44:13

like dogs, like dogs, like dogs, like dogs,

44:15

like dogs, like dogs, like dogs, like dogs,

44:18

like dogs, like dogs, like dogs, like dogs,

44:20

like dogs, like dogs, like, like, like, like,

44:22

like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

44:24

like, like, like, like, like, like, like, I've

44:26

never seen these films. Well, deliverance, I had

44:29

to go back and watch, because I was

44:31

brought to it by my grandparents. Oh, wow.

44:33

When I was like 11. So dark. Yeah,

44:35

but like, it's weird what you remember. I

44:37

did learn something about kids' brains. It's like,

44:40

I didn't really register the rape. Right. You

44:42

just register the scary parts. Right. Yeah, the

44:44

portent. And you feel it. Yeah. But like

44:46

when I saw it again, I'm like, I'm

44:48

the point of reference. Thank goodness. Yeah, it's

44:51

true. You shouldn't. So you can. Yeah, I

44:53

see a play and I come home and

44:55

I look in the, so I was talking

44:57

about my grandfather because he ended up doing

44:59

some community theater when he got out of

45:02

the work. All these actors around you. Just

45:04

one. But your dad. Oh well he's, you

45:06

know, I think he's just competing, but your

45:08

dad. Oh well he's, you know, I think

45:10

he's just, now he's just competing with me.

45:13

No, I think he's just, now he's just

45:15

competing with me. Now he's just competing with

45:17

me. every weekend. And my mom worked at

45:19

night and so she slept during the day

45:21

so she didn't drive us anywhere. So we

45:24

ever wanted to do it. Yeah, she's like

45:26

if you can find her ride. Yeah, we

45:28

were going to the grocery store and buying

45:30

her cigarettes. You know, that was the time

45:32

when you could, you had a note and

45:35

you bought your mom's cigarettes. Yeah, I did

45:37

that. Yeah, right. We all did. Skag's drug

45:39

store. Yeah, totally, right. We went to Acme

45:41

or whatever, but. So I didn't do it

45:43

until senior year in high school. I was

45:46

playing soccer. I was an athlete. I audition

45:48

for the play. I got the lead in

45:50

our town. And then I ended up doing

45:52

like four or five plays in college playing.

45:55

I was also the university of Mount Union.

45:57

It's called now. It's a small school in

45:59

Ohio. It's just like they let me play

46:01

soccer and they had a little bit of

46:03

support for academics. And I think I ended

46:06

up in education for a while and then

46:08

I did a classroom observation. I was like,

46:10

I'm not special enough to be an educator.

46:12

And then I did philosophy for a while.

46:14

How did that go? You know, I loved

46:17

it, but you know. I had enough credits

46:19

to become an English lit major and I

46:21

studied. I studied abroad in Spain and I

46:23

became a Spanish lit major, but I did

46:25

not study. How's your Spanish? Oh, God, the

46:28

past tense is really gone. Yeah. I'm trying

46:30

to practice. I try to like, every year

46:32

I'm like, my duo lingo, is this, you

46:34

know? Yeah. But I'm terrible and I'm so

46:36

sad. I mean, it would come back if

46:39

I made the effort, but I don't have

46:41

time to do anything. Yeah. But so did

46:43

that sort of engage you, sort of engage

46:45

you in the sort of engage you in

46:47

the arts, sort of engaging in the arts,

46:50

sort of engaging? Well, I did play as

46:52

in college and I had a professor who

46:54

said, I think he could go to graduate

46:56

school for acting. Now, I grew up in

46:58

Ohio, I didn't know about Juilliard, I didn't

47:01

know about NYU. So I wasn't, I didn't

47:03

have any aspirations. So I ended up at

47:05

UW Madison, Wisconsin. The ten actors for three

47:07

years, they were 10 actors for three years,

47:09

they were remaking the program. Good town. It's

47:12

a great place to pay attention to myself

47:14

for three years and my 20s in my

47:16

20s. program was small? Yeah, 10 actors, three

47:18

years. Good attention from a okay teacher or

47:20

what? Yes, you know, they were, I feel

47:23

like my teachers were very different. I had

47:25

different philosophies about what we were trying to

47:27

accomplish there, but I had a great voice

47:29

teacher, Susan Sweeney, who'd come from the PTT

47:31

program in Delaware, which is kind of a

47:34

notorious S program. Yeah. They try out all

47:36

the S technology on those kids. Oh, yeah.

47:38

Anyway, but she was a great. She had

47:40

some of that. Yeah, sure. She used it

47:42

effectively. Each kid get in there for us.

47:45

But I realize having been from the Midwest,

47:47

I had never maybe taken a deep breath.

47:49

My voice was not in my body. And

47:51

so that was really. Be present and self-affirmation.

47:53

I don't think it's, I don't think it's,

47:56

I don't think it's, I mean, have you

47:58

ever gone to the landmark forum? No, but

48:00

I know people, I guess it, yeah. Is

48:02

it a sort of a... I think that

48:04

life is empty and meaningless and it's empty

48:07

and meaningless that it's empty and meaningless would

48:09

be the overarching. But it's ambition-based. It's manifesting

48:11

your best self to do what you do.

48:13

I think it's sort of like corrupted Buddhism

48:15

like there is no self so it doesn't

48:18

matter what you do. I know one guy

48:20

who's in the landmark forum and it's... You

48:22

can't argue with those people. Well, there's a

48:24

confidence to it that's annoying. Yeah, there is,

48:26

because they're like, oh, that's yours. That doesn't

48:29

belong to me. Yeah. You know, so you

48:31

can't hold them responsible for anything? Right. Because

48:33

they're like, well, that's your experience that you're

48:35

having that I did not cause. Yeah, very

48:37

frustrating. I can't really wrap my head around.

48:40

I'm walking away. Aggressive detachment. Yeah, it really

48:42

is. But the voice work was amazing and

48:44

really life changing for me and really life

48:46

changing for me. I was doing plays in

48:49

Wisconsin. But then how does it become in

48:51

Wisconsin? So I went to the American Players

48:53

Theater in Spring Green Wisconsin, an amazing outdoor

48:55

Shakespeare theater. It's been around for a long

48:57

time. Did Shakespeare? I did Shakespeare, I did

49:00

check off, I did, you know, they do,

49:02

you know, Neil, they do the big, the

49:04

big guns out there under the stars. And

49:06

it's an 1100 seat house outside and you

49:08

have to figure out how to fill that

49:11

space truthfully. And it's a membership thing, so

49:13

it's pretty full, usually? Oh yeah, I mean,

49:15

the audience, the audience has grown up with

49:17

them. Generation, and you have to figure out

49:19

how to fill that space truthfully. And it's

49:22

a membership thing, you know, you know, you

49:24

know, you know, you know, and there's, you

49:26

know, you know, you know, you know, you

49:28

know, and there's, you know, you know, you

49:30

know, you know, you know, you know, you

49:33

know, you know, and there's, you know, you

49:35

know, you know, you know, you know, and

49:37

there's, you know, you know, and lightning, there's

49:39

all the conditions you have to fight against

49:41

as well. And you're in upholstery fabrics so

49:44

they don't get ruined. I was there and

49:46

a lot of the directors working out there

49:48

were Chicago-based. Everything's made of upholstery fabric. And

49:50

like, you know, you have to be nice

49:52

to people because they won't wipe the mosquitoes

49:55

off your face and you're playing a dead

49:57

body. And then so the directors, James Bonan,

49:59

who worked at a theater in Chicago, gave

50:01

me my first job in Chicago and then

50:03

I was auditioning at Stepan Wolf and I

50:06

was getting called back and then eventually my

50:08

first job on I was getting called back

50:10

and then eventually my first job on the

50:12

main stage was who's afraid of Virginia Wolf.

50:14

Like what generation of actors were there? Well,

50:17

I mean. Everybody was I mean everybody who'd

50:19

founded it was gone, you know Lori Medcalfe

50:21

all those guys had moved on Yeah, it

50:23

was the new generation and Tracy was kind

50:25

of like I don't know what you'd consider

50:28

him is he like third generation to step

50:30

him over something? Yeah, I guess so I

50:32

was the one kind of coming in under

50:34

him and in in some ways he wasn't

50:36

there though when you were there No, he

50:39

was he played George Oh, so you were

50:41

in a company man. Yeah, this is like

50:43

post I mean, August August August Osage County

50:45

County, I were Yeah, he'd been, I mean,

50:47

he and Amy Moran had played married like,

50:50

I don't know, 12 times or something by

50:52

then. Yeah. And so that's where Tracy and

50:54

I met, and then that play went to

50:56

Broadway, and that's when I started going to

50:58

casting directors in New York, and I had

51:01

done a little, I had done... commercials and

51:03

one guest star spot on TV. Now like

51:05

my assumption in terms of what Steppenwolf means

51:07

and what was going on there, that there

51:09

was a, like it was sort of a

51:12

intense and angry and focused bunch of people.

51:14

I think in the early days it probably

51:16

was, because they were just like hungry students.

51:18

The thing that Steppenwolf brings and why I

51:20

think Chicago theater is singular is the ensemble

51:23

ethic that it's about... It's about telling a

51:25

story. It's not about one person who stands

51:27

out from the ensemble. So it's always about

51:29

what is the best choice you make to

51:31

tell the story. And that's a great philosophy

51:34

for theater. And I think that's what makes

51:36

Chicago actors really unique and special. It's also,

51:38

I guess, also why sketch comedy is taking

51:40

over comedy. It's the same thing. It was

51:43

never a stand-up town. but it was always

51:45

an improv town. It was, right? And it's

51:47

a yes and town. Yes, and that's all

51:49

ensemble collaborative work. That's right. And like TJ

51:51

and Dave and the Herald was like the

51:54

hour long. Yeah, it's a lot to go

51:56

through. It's a lot to go through. It's

51:58

a lot to go through. It's a lot

52:00

to go through. It's a lot to go

52:02

through. It's a lot to go through, but

52:05

it's fun to watch. But it's fun to

52:07

watch. Gosh, gosh, gosh, it's a hoot, it's

52:09

a hoot, it's a hoot, it's a hoot,

52:11

it's a hoot, it's a hoot, it's a

52:13

hoot, it's a hoot, it's a hoot, it's

52:16

a hoot, it's a hoot, it's a hoot,

52:18

it's a hoot, it's a hoot, it's a

52:20

hoot, it's a, it's a, it's a, He

52:22

had to bow out because I think everybody

52:24

was sick or something. Oh my God. Family,

52:27

you know, blah. So that must be fun.

52:29

Yeah, good times. But so Tracy, like as

52:31

an actor. So you played opposite him? He

52:33

was your husband? Yeah, I mean, no, I

52:35

was playing honey. So I was playing the

52:38

younger. I mean, we're 15 years apart. I

52:40

was playing the younger couple and he was

52:42

playing. So you got to sit there on

52:44

stage watching him yell and yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

52:46

Yeah. So you got to sit there on

52:49

stage watching him yell and yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

52:51

Yeah. I mean he was sitting there on

52:53

stage watching him yell and yell and yeah.

52:55

Yeah. Yeah. He was beautiful. He was. Yeah,

52:57

he really was. But I talked to Mangold

53:00

yesterday. Oh, you did. Yeah, it was so

53:02

weird. Oh, he had a great time with

53:04

James. He loved working on Ford v. Ferrari.

53:06

The life I live, you know, I get

53:08

out. I was told he's going to be

53:11

early and I come out here to set

53:13

up and he's sitting in his portion of

53:15

my driveway. Like, hey, buddy, you know, I

53:17

talked, he's going to be early and I

53:19

come out here to set up and he's

53:22

sitting in his portion of his portion of

53:24

his portion of his portion of his portion

53:26

of his portion of his portion of his

53:28

portion of my driveway. It's in his portion

53:30

of his portion of his portion of his

53:33

portion of his portion of his portion of

53:35

his portion of his portion of his portion

53:37

of his portion. It's. That was his favorite

53:39

part Tracy ever did. But yeah, because Tracy

53:41

is really claustrophobic and he was genuinely afraid

53:44

in that rig. The rig is really fast.

53:46

Mike, I remember he said that Matt Damon

53:48

was like, man, you're so pale, are you

53:50

all right? He's like, no, I'm not okay.

53:52

So like the crying I think came easily,

53:55

but it's so funny. It's hilarious. It's a

53:57

great choice. So, but do you guys talk

53:59

about acting? together. We're great together. We

54:01

have a, we have a, like, we kind

54:03

of have a production company. I'm very cynical

54:06

about it. But, you know, I've done a

54:08

lot of his plays. We haven't really acted

54:10

together much since Virginia Wolf, but, you know. It's

54:12

a weird way to fall in love. Yeah, totally.

54:14

Well, how did you fall in love? Well, I mean,

54:16

we just, I don't know. It was one of those,

54:19

we were both in other relationships and other relationships.

54:21

Yeah. You know, which I was a serial overlaper

54:23

anyway. Yeah, that was kind of my thing for

54:25

a long time. It's what people do. So if

54:27

you don't know how, if you have no boundaries

54:29

and you don't like conflict, that's how you get

54:31

out of things. Yeah, yeah, you just move into another

54:33

thing. Yeah, like, oh, this thing seems better. Are you going

54:35

to break, like, oh, yeah, you just move into another

54:37

thing. Yeah, like, oh, sorry. This thing seems better. Are

54:39

you're going to break, are, are, like, like, like, like,

54:41

like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

54:43

like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

54:45

like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

54:47

like, you get out, like, you get out, you get out, you get

54:50

out, you get out, you get out, you Yeah. Don't say no to

54:52

anything. Yeah. Everything has a call. You're resentful of everybody. And it's terrible. Yeah.

54:54

It's terrible. But Tracy and I, we saw, I mean, he had also had

54:56

patterns like that in his life and it was like, I see you over there. And

54:58

you're like, neither one, we're not jealous people. Like we don't have any

55:00

of those hang-ups. We didn't want to ever be with the police,

55:02

you know? Yeah. So it's nice to be in a relationship where

55:04

we can always to be in a relationship where we can always

55:06

to be in a relationship where we can always talking a relationship

55:08

where we can always talking about a relationship where we can always

55:10

talking about. We can always talking about. We can always talking about.

55:12

We can always talking about. We can always talking about. We can

55:14

always talking about. We can always talking about. We can always talking

55:16

about. We can always talking about. We can. We can always. We

55:18

can. We can. We can always. We can Oh, really? Oh, yeah,

55:21

totally. It's so fun. I love it. He sees, like, Tracy's the

55:23

kind of person who sees, like, everybody on the street when he's

55:25

walking, and every woman. And he notices every single woman

55:27

on the street. And he's, he always tells me, like,

55:29

who he has a crush on or people I'm

55:31

talking about. It's fun. It's interesting to know

55:34

what your partner's into. Yeah. Like, it's titillating.

55:36

But it doesn't ever go over go over

55:38

the line. We don't like, we don't really

55:40

like lines. Yeah, lines are really boring. Yeah.

55:42

So I mean, look, life is, life is

55:44

short. Finite. Finite. Finite. And you know,

55:46

it's like Tracy, you guys know, you both

55:49

have lost partners in your lives. Yeah.

55:51

It's a devastating thing. Yeah. And what

55:53

I think Tracy and you have probably spoken

55:55

maybe a little bit about this, but,

55:57

and I don't think he would mind me.

55:59

I think Tracy's understood then from a

56:02

very young age because he went through it.

56:04

Like he would never begrudge anyone a

56:06

human experience. In fact, every day after

56:09

that for him was a gift he

56:11

got was to continue living in the

56:13

world. And I think he recognizes that.

56:15

And he sort of embraced being a

56:17

person of appetites and like acknowledging that

56:19

we have these proclivities. And actually we're

56:21

not really, monogamy is sort of something

56:23

we've imposed on ourselves through. You know,

56:25

we were supposed to have babies and

56:27

die when we were like 30. And

56:30

that's not the way life is anymore.

56:32

And so I think you have to

56:34

stay, you've got to be open-minded

56:36

about what is, what makes you feel,

56:38

what engages you in the world and

56:40

what sparks your imagination and where your

56:43

passion is. And I think if you're

56:45

willing to stay open to that, then

56:47

you're living a more full life. And

56:49

I don't think either one of us

56:52

would want to keep the other from

56:54

living. Right. or proclivities are in relation

56:56

to compulsion and the damage it may

56:58

do to your life, that becomes the

57:00

tricky thing to separate. Well, I mean,

57:02

there's, there, yes, yes, because there's

57:05

reactivity, and that's different. Reactivity where

57:07

you're acting sort of blindly out

57:09

of your patterns of behavior. Yeah,

57:11

you have to be you have

57:13

to also have to be willing

57:16

to unpack that stuff. And Tracy

57:18

and I are both you know,

57:20

we're both in recovery. We both

57:22

have done a lot of like A.A.

57:24

Allenon therapy. We have a lot

57:26

of that language in our house. Oh,

57:28

really. I mean, I'm four years in.

57:30

He's 30. I think he's 31 years.

57:32

All in honor to the other. I'm

57:34

I'm actually don't need the other thing

57:36

either. kids are being raised in this

57:38

like incredibly even keel like there's nothing

57:40

volatile in my house because you

57:43

can immediately take responsibility that's right it

57:45

is about taking responsibility yeah and you know Mark

57:47

I had I had a very serious impulse control

57:49

disorder I mean I was a skin picker from

57:51

two I've talked about it a little bit yeah a

57:54

skin picker where does that come from it's like

57:56

an impulse control disorder you know like you

57:58

people who picked scabs but then eventually moved

58:00

to my scalp so I was like losing

58:02

hair. Were you a nail bider? No, I was

58:04

just skin picker. You need your nails to

58:06

pick your skin mark. And you know it's

58:09

it's it's an overactive grooming but it's it's

58:11

impulse control and it was really debilitating for

58:13

a long time. And I also used it

58:15

as an excuse to get out of like

58:17

difficult conversations like well I can't have this

58:19

conversation it's really making it's really triggering me

58:21

right. Were you able to you able to track?

58:24

Like the whole trauma business. Yeah. Like, because

58:26

I'm talking about it a bit on

58:28

stage now and it's kind of interesting.

58:30

Yeah, yeah, cool. I think that's really good.

58:32

Well, I think the interesting thing about it

58:34

is that, you know, trauma is relative to

58:37

the impact it had on your life. That's

58:39

true. The most profound traumas may not be

58:41

the ones. that have fucked you up for

58:43

the whole game. Yeah. Yeah. And

58:46

there's something very funny about

58:48

that. Yeah. The one that's

58:50

horrible. You're like, that wasn't

58:52

the problem. That was fun. I

58:54

moved through that just fun. Yeah,

58:56

it's the other thing, the minor

58:58

thing. Yeah, I think that's true

59:00

because I wouldn't consider myself to

59:02

be like, I don't have some,

59:05

like, big huge sob story of trauma

59:07

in my life. Yeah. And it's like,

59:09

who doesn't have that? But, like, if

59:11

it manifests at two with you picking

59:13

your skin off your body and then

59:15

it continues to become really aberrant as

59:17

an adult and you're getting, like, infections

59:19

and you can't play soccer because you

59:22

have a staff infection in your leg,

59:24

or you have a wound on your

59:26

body for two years. Yeah, that you

59:28

kind of self, it's like, that's not okay.

59:30

What is it? It's not sexy. What exactly

59:32

is the skin picking thing sading? Oh, God,

59:35

well, it's like any compulsion.

59:37

It's like, hungry, angry, lonely,

59:39

tired, bored, overstimulated, understimulated, not

59:41

living authentically. I mean, all

59:44

the triggers, there are triggers I feel

59:46

like are the same. But a lot of it

59:48

usually comes down to like having some

59:50

control. Yes, and I also found that

59:53

it was a, what I've discovered in

59:55

my process of learning to deal with

59:57

it, and I would consider myself recovered.

1:00:00

absentee of self. There's a withdrawal that

1:00:02

happens, right? It's a, there's a dopamine, there's

1:00:04

a brain component, right? You create a stimulus

1:00:06

in your, that's actually chemical in your brain.

1:00:08

That's the thing you're addicted to. Yeah,

1:00:11

everybody's addicted to now. And I realized there

1:00:13

was like a. you know, that there was an

1:00:15

actual like chemical component to what was

1:00:17

happening to me. But any impulse is

1:00:19

about 90 seconds long. So if you

1:00:22

can create space between the moment you

1:00:24

have the impulse and when you actually

1:00:26

complete the action, whatever it is, whatever

1:00:28

it is, whatever it is. You can actually

1:00:30

start to like... Rewire your brain.

1:00:32

Absolutely. And that was the stuff. What acting

1:00:35

taught me was like acting is the opposite,

1:00:37

right? Acting is radical presence. Yeah. And we

1:00:39

speak of acting in like percentages, like what

1:00:41

percentage can you be present on stage? I'm

1:00:44

sure you feel that in a show, right?

1:00:46

It's like it's like the headspace an athlete

1:00:48

is in. It's the, you know, where you're

1:00:50

just like in the flow, like flow state

1:00:52

of it. And like picking is the absence

1:00:55

that you go away. you withdraw from

1:00:57

presence. That's interesting. And so

1:00:59

it was like to find that that was

1:01:01

the actual, the thing that I really wanted

1:01:03

to do in my life acting was the

1:01:05

opposite of the thing that was controlling my

1:01:07

behavior or it was really quite a revelation.

1:01:10

Well, because both of them require

1:01:12

self-erasure. in a way. Yeah, that's true.

1:01:14

Yeah, there is an annihilation of self.

1:01:16

Right, but you know when you're on

1:01:19

stage, it's part of the craft and

1:01:21

part of the job. And the underlying

1:01:23

thing is to be present. But when

1:01:26

you're doing things to either lose

1:01:28

yourself or diminish yourself as a compulsion,

1:01:30

that speaks to some other weird thing.

1:01:32

It is some other weird thing. And

1:01:35

I think that's what's led me

1:01:37

down the road to like... I don't

1:01:39

know, this question of, you know, and

1:01:41

this sort of Buddhist philosophy where you're

1:01:43

talking about like no self, and just

1:01:46

sort of how the only thing you can

1:01:48

be sure of is that everything changes,

1:01:50

so that everything inside of you, there's

1:01:52

no person there, there's no center for

1:01:54

those things. And this story that you

1:01:57

tell about your life, and I don't

1:01:59

mean to diminish. anyone's trauma, but

1:02:01

like storytelling is powerful and if you

1:02:03

can start to let go of that

1:02:05

story. Then you sort of like

1:02:07

go of the idea that there's

1:02:09

any person at the center

1:02:11

of it that can be

1:02:13

heard or traumatized or anything.

1:02:16

Right. As you get older,

1:02:18

it starts to fade anyways.

1:02:20

Yeah, it does. I don't

1:02:22

remember anything anymore. Yeah, I

1:02:24

was trying to remember some

1:02:26

part of a story that

1:02:28

I used to remember some

1:02:30

part of a story that I

1:02:32

used to tell about myself. Right.

1:02:34

what I find to be down

1:02:37

there is some sort of terror.

1:02:39

Well, I don't know. That's interesting.

1:02:41

What do you mean? Like

1:02:43

that's the... Well, just a

1:02:45

fear of vulnerability. Yeah. And

1:02:47

I think getting back to...

1:02:49

you know talking about trust right

1:02:51

so that vulnerability that you have

1:02:54

at the core of yourself that

1:02:56

may not be attached to a

1:02:58

self uh-huh can be you know

1:03:00

very young and based in some

1:03:02

sort of strange abandonment or distance

1:03:04

or emotional lack of emotional support

1:03:06

or whatever but I find that

1:03:08

when you get right down to

1:03:10

it's this childish terror yeah of

1:03:12

not being taken care of because

1:03:14

you don't trust that people would do

1:03:16

with. Yeah, that if you say your need

1:03:18

that someone will actually be there to meet

1:03:20

it. Absolutely, yes. And so that

1:03:22

kind of confuses the Buddhism. But

1:03:25

it's also, but it's also very egotistical

1:03:27

in a way. Well yeah, because your

1:03:29

ego is fragmented, so you're going to

1:03:31

hold on to whatever. And you

1:03:33

are fundamentally not trust, you're not

1:03:36

giving people any credit. You're not

1:03:38

allowing people, like you're not allowing for

1:03:40

the fact that you actually don't know what

1:03:42

that person is capable of. that shifted is

1:03:45

that there was a person in front of

1:03:47

me who I could tell because of

1:03:49

all the life he had had, he was

1:03:51

older than me. Like there was nothing I

1:03:53

could hand him that he couldn't hold. So

1:03:55

finally, in a way that I never trusted

1:03:57

a peer, there was somebody in my life.

1:03:59

that I could trust. And it wasn't like,

1:04:02

it's not like daddy issues, it was like,

1:04:04

oh no, no, I can't, like this person

1:04:06

can actually, there's nothing I can say to

1:04:08

this person that they can't handle. And that's

1:04:11

like, that's the gift where you start to

1:04:13

go, oh, and actually, I've probably underestimated everybody

1:04:15

on some level because of, you know, controlling

1:04:17

information is egotistical ultimately. Self-protective. It's self-protective, right?

1:04:20

Yeah. But like, what, but then you come

1:04:22

back to the, it's like, what are you

1:04:24

protecting, you know? Right. Well, that's, what's the

1:04:26

self you're protecting? What's the big question? And

1:04:29

I'm kind of like, well, maybe there's nobody

1:04:31

in there. Well, that's not true. I don't

1:04:33

know. I kind of started, I'm starting, the

1:04:35

older I get. the more I'm like it's

1:04:38

just like these impulses and yeah I know

1:04:40

well sure it's it well I mean you

1:04:42

can break it down to a bunch of

1:04:44

ticks and habits yeah sure right but but

1:04:47

that's something I mean it's so funny I

1:04:49

used to notice that about about old method

1:04:51

actors. You know, when they're clearly doing jobs

1:04:53

that they may, you know, that they might

1:04:56

not be all invested in, they've still got

1:04:58

these ticks and habits that have carried them

1:05:00

throughout all of it. That's true. Something to

1:05:03

rely, and no one's going to be like,

1:05:05

you know, maybe you should consider, no one's

1:05:07

going to give you direction anymore. That's right.

1:05:09

Yeah, you know, lose that weird thing you

1:05:12

do with your head. Right. But it's more

1:05:14

fun to, I think it's more fun to,

1:05:16

like, like, know that's there, know that's there

1:05:18

and be able to like, work around it.

1:05:21

Well yeah well I mean I make yourself.

1:05:23

Well I don't do much too much acting

1:05:25

but like when I really try to do

1:05:27

it it's you know my first if I

1:05:30

get cast in something that's not of type

1:05:32

I realize like oh this guy's not neurotic

1:05:34

so I can just turn that part off.

1:05:36

Right and do you find that liberated? Well

1:05:39

yeah, yeah, because it's a crutch to do

1:05:41

that's the constant self-reflection thing. To have a

1:05:43

guy that doesn't do that is like, sure,

1:05:45

why wouldn't that be good? But then you

1:05:48

doubt like, well what's his inner life? How's

1:05:50

that going to matter? If you can just

1:05:52

turn off all this other like self-awareness and

1:05:54

just live in this present where this guy

1:05:57

doesn't take responsibility? for certain things. Well that's

1:05:59

nice for a little while. Yeah that is

1:06:01

nice. Well isn't that the lovely thing about

1:06:03

acting? Is that invitation though outside of? Yeah

1:06:06

I mean I'm still trying to figure out

1:06:08

whether I you know have any I try

1:06:10

to engage some choices that are not me.

1:06:12

Yeah. But I do think at a core

1:06:15

level in this is sort of an argument

1:06:17

against the lack of self thing is that

1:06:19

when you see people act. I think even

1:06:21

the best actors, no matter what they're doing,

1:06:24

you do see them. Yeah, I guess that's

1:06:26

true. I mean, there's something about them that's

1:06:28

also interesting or a try. There's something they

1:06:30

have, I guess, at the core that's interesting,

1:06:33

or maybe. Is that true for everybody? I

1:06:35

don't know. I think some actors are, I

1:06:37

mean, I feel like there are celebrities and

1:06:39

there are actors. I feel like celebrities are

1:06:42

always kind of doing themselves. But even the

1:06:44

most immersive actor. You know it's them. Yeah,

1:06:46

kind of. I'm going to take that on

1:06:48

as a challenge to see who I can

1:06:51

find that I think like remakes themselves the

1:06:53

most. But it's just interesting because I've, you

1:06:55

know, I've had, I've sat across from like

1:06:57

Ian McCellan. Right. Sir Ian McCellan telling him

1:07:00

I don't really get Shakespeare and having him

1:07:02

do it and then just go back to

1:07:04

Ian McCellan. Yeah. And there was something very

1:07:06

revealing about that approach that, you know, like

1:07:09

he's just this guy and then he does

1:07:11

this thing. Then other people those Shakespearean guys

1:07:13

they can lose themselves like sometimes Sometimes those

1:07:15

guys with that kind of deep craft. Uh-huh

1:07:18

can you know immerse themselves in something that

1:07:20

is fundamentally not them yeah and and you

1:07:22

kind of buy it and when they return

1:07:24

back you're like what the fuck did you

1:07:27

just do so you thought you see it

1:07:29

but you don't see that on film generally

1:07:31

like you don't experience that what I'm trying

1:07:33

to I'm trying to I'm trying to decide

1:07:36

whether I'm talking about talking about my astronaut

1:07:38

but even when you work with the most

1:07:40

immersive guys like I was in a room

1:07:42

with Jeremy strong for you know three or

1:07:45

four days yeah in a very is that.

1:07:47

is that when you're in the room with

1:07:49

him long enough, like, he'll talk like the

1:07:51

character, but he'll let you know, like, I

1:07:54

can still, I can still, you know, talk,

1:07:56

I can talk about things that Jeremy talks

1:07:58

about. But I'm gonna do it. Like this

1:08:00

person. Like this person. Oh, yeah, that's a

1:08:03

whole, I, I mean, that's, maybe I'm doing

1:08:05

it wrong. No, no one, there is no

1:08:07

right or wrong. Well, when you watch yourself,

1:08:09

are you watch yourself, do you watch yourself,

1:08:12

do you watch yourself? Well, no, because of

1:08:14

my experiences is still pretty limited. I don't

1:08:16

think of your experience as limited. How long

1:08:18

do you think you can get away with

1:08:21

saying that? I feel like you act a

1:08:23

lot. Well, I've been doing more of it

1:08:25

to kind of find out, you know, whether

1:08:27

it is like whether the the job of

1:08:30

or the actual acting is worth it in

1:08:32

relation to the sitting. It's really kind of

1:08:34

this fundamental problem I have. It's like, okay,

1:08:36

we're going to act for three minutes and

1:08:39

then you're going to sit for three hours.

1:08:41

So it's TV and films different than theater.

1:08:43

Totally. But the theater I haven't done since

1:08:45

I was in college. But would you ever?

1:08:48

I almost I expressed interest in it and

1:08:50

then when they told me the schedule of

1:08:52

what it would take to get something up.

1:08:54

It's really hard. Oh my God. Yeah, I

1:08:57

mean it's like, you know, four weeks, you

1:08:59

know, putting it together, previews, and then we'll

1:09:01

see if anyone comes and just... But I'm

1:09:03

on stage, you know, every right of mine.

1:09:06

Right, of course, you're doing that all the

1:09:08

time, yeah. But what we were speaking about

1:09:10

before too is sort of interesting about presence,

1:09:12

you know, as a comic, that there's something

1:09:15

happening to me now that's never happened before.

1:09:17

What's that? Which is like you know everything's

1:09:19

pretty immediate and pretty life or death for

1:09:21

me You know in terms of what I'm

1:09:24

trying to express and I feel that there

1:09:26

that that my intensity speaks to that and

1:09:28

when I'm doing stuff on stage And I

1:09:30

found that if like you know look you've

1:09:33

got enough craft in place to where it

1:09:35

doesn't have to be that dire and you

1:09:37

know it might be a relief for the

1:09:39

audience if you weren't so you know intensely

1:09:42

needy for them to understand you. And so,

1:09:44

and so, so like, because I told my

1:09:46

friend Sam, you know, in the midst of

1:09:48

this, you know, global collapse and political collapse,

1:09:51

I was on the phone with lipside and

1:09:53

I was like, you know, I just can't,

1:09:55

there are comics out there that are just

1:09:57

kind of laying back. And I said to

1:10:00

Sam, I said, I just want to take

1:10:02

it easy. I just want to take it

1:10:04

easy. It's stuck in my head. That like,

1:10:06

look dude, you know, and I think the

1:10:09

revelation of it was just that my audience

1:10:11

is like-minded. They're sensitive, creative, grown-up people who

1:10:13

are experiencing a lot of despair and traumatic

1:10:15

stress going on, and there's no real solution,

1:10:18

and I don't have them. So like I

1:10:20

had this moment where I'm like, I will

1:10:22

commiserate with you for the first 10 minutes.

1:10:24

because I'm in the same spot you are

1:10:27

with the same feelings and you know we

1:10:29

can judge the other side we could do

1:10:31

whatever but what's more important is like how

1:10:33

are we dealing with it and then after

1:10:36

that 10 minutes I'm like all right now

1:10:38

I will entertain you oh okay so that's

1:10:40

new for me that's really the idea of

1:10:42

entertaining Oh, that's interesting, because of course I

1:10:45

find you entertaining. I've seen your sets and

1:10:47

I think of them as very entertaining, even

1:10:49

when you're talking about the things. Right. I'm

1:10:51

most passionate about like the end of the

1:10:54

world. Right. But for me, it's very important.

1:10:56

Yeah. And it's not that it's any U.S.

1:10:58

important, but I can shift the tone a

1:11:00

little bit where I'm like, all right, well,

1:11:03

so we just talked about Hitler. Yeah. What

1:11:05

happens is if you get to that place,

1:11:07

the self-consciousness, and the need for connection changes,

1:11:09

right? Because you have to, you know, you

1:11:12

have to accept that like, well, they're here

1:11:14

to see me, so the need for attention

1:11:16

has been fulfilled. Right. So once you. up

1:11:18

a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. But in terms

1:11:21

of the acting thing with watching myself, and

1:11:23

not so much with comedy, but similar in

1:11:25

that I know when I'm like, oh, so

1:11:27

that moment, you weren't there. Right. Yeah. And

1:11:30

that's really what happens. But I just did

1:11:32

this indie where I had to play a

1:11:34

lead and it was the first time. And

1:11:36

all I know about whatever the fuck I

1:11:39

did there, you know, I was ready, you

1:11:41

know, I kind of showed up for the

1:11:43

job was that I never went home thinking

1:11:45

I blew it somehow. That's good. That's good.

1:11:48

That's a nice feeling. It's a nice feeling.

1:11:50

It's good. Yeah, like they got what they

1:11:52

needed and I can go to sleep. But

1:11:54

also like I did everything I did everything

1:11:57

I showed up for the thing and I

1:11:59

couldn't have done it. any different. Well that's

1:12:01

good and that's where your life is lived.

1:12:03

Your life isn't lived in how the thing

1:12:06

gets received in the world right? Your life

1:12:08

is lived in the making of it. I

1:12:10

guess. It is. You can't control the other

1:12:12

things. Yeah but why are we watching? What

1:12:15

do you mean why are we watching? Why

1:12:17

are we watching? Why are we watching ourselves

1:12:19

and wondering and why are we saying things

1:12:21

like no one saw that movie? Because the

1:12:24

next time you... Oh well yeah, no one

1:12:26

saw that movie as a sad statement to

1:12:28

make, but like also I loved making that,

1:12:30

the movie that nobody saw. That's where my

1:12:33

life got lived. My life didn't get lived,

1:12:35

you know, when it came out. Yeah. And

1:12:37

like you get to then watch your movie,

1:12:39

even if nobody else does. Right. And say,

1:12:42

oh, there's that thing, watch your movie, even

1:12:44

if nobody else does. Right. And say, oh,

1:12:46

there's that thing, there's, even if nobody else

1:12:48

does. Right. Right. Right. Right. And say, there's

1:12:51

that, there's that, there's that, there's that, there's,

1:12:53

there's, there, there's, there, there's, there, there's, there's,

1:12:55

there's, there's, there's, there's, there's, there's, there's, there's,

1:12:57

there's, there's, there's, there's, there's, there, there's, there's,

1:13:00

there's, there's, there's, there's, Yeah, I'd be like,

1:13:02

oh no, like I do this thing with

1:13:04

my job whenever I'm playing it. Like that's

1:13:06

not, if you're, again, it's just like the

1:13:09

way you're, it's the same thing as reactivity.

1:13:11

Like if you're always acting in your relationships

1:13:13

out of a pattern you have, and it's

1:13:15

unexamined. It's the same thing as reactivity. Like

1:13:18

if you're always acting in your relationships out

1:13:20

of a pattern you have, why can't I

1:13:22

stand up straight? I know what it is

1:13:24

though. Oh well that's good as long as

1:13:27

you know. I'm hiding my non-existent stomach. Oh

1:13:29

see, oh at least you know, see that's

1:13:31

not unexamined. I wrote on a note for

1:13:33

that movie I'm like don't slout. This guy

1:13:36

doesn't slouch. Look at you taking notes. I

1:13:38

know but I don't think I wore it.

1:13:40

They don't think I locked it. You're like

1:13:42

in some scenes you did. but with acting

1:13:45

in terms of like you know a right

1:13:47

or wrong way to do it I don't

1:13:49

think like I was fortunate in going into

1:13:51

that movie a couple weeks before I talked

1:13:54

to Pachino yeah and I don't know like

1:13:56

there was some sort of mind-blowing thing because

1:13:58

like he's not the guy you think he

1:14:00

is and when you talk to him he's

1:14:03

just kind of neurotic shy you know yeah

1:14:05

and and like what he was talking about

1:14:07

in terms of why he acts and I

1:14:09

never really fully put it together is that

1:14:12

as an artist as opposed to just an

1:14:14

actor. You know, he was in pursuit of

1:14:16

truth. And I don't know why that was

1:14:18

so mind blowing to me. Oh, wow. Because

1:14:21

I don't think I ever framed it that

1:14:23

way. I knew about being present, but I

1:14:25

never saw the journey that presence implies truth

1:14:27

in a moment. But the actual drive to

1:14:30

act, you know, in any situation or any

1:14:32

production, is to find truth. And that's why

1:14:34

I hate it when people say actors are

1:14:37

the best liars. I'm like, no, no, no,

1:14:39

it's actually, it's the truth. Right. It's not

1:14:41

lying. It's the other thing. Well, yeah, well,

1:14:43

there's, I think there are guys, yeah, people

1:14:46

who say like, well, actors are just good

1:14:48

at pretending. Yeah. But it's, it's, but it's

1:14:50

not when you're in it. It's not that.

1:14:52

It's actually radically the other thing. publicity or

1:14:55

getting their picture taken. They're some of the

1:14:57

most shy people I know are actors, you

1:14:59

know? Yeah, I remember when I talked to

1:15:01

John C. Riley, you know, he was like,

1:15:04

I don't usually do this because I just

1:15:06

don't want to, you know, he says, I

1:15:08

want to keep the, up the mystique. Yeah,

1:15:10

well, there's probably something to be said for.

1:15:13

a little mystery is probably good. You shouldn't

1:15:15

be operating at full disclosure. And then we

1:15:17

ended up talking about clowns for an hour.

1:15:19

Oh yeah, that's like, that's his stuff, right?

1:15:22

He likes that. I haven't seen him in

1:15:24

a movie in a while. I know, I'm

1:15:26

trying, I guess the last thing was Tracy's

1:15:28

show, you know, the winning time about on

1:15:31

the showtime show. Oh yeah, that's right, that's

1:15:33

the last thing I remember. I can do

1:15:35

this. You know, what was appealing about that?

1:15:37

Well, the appealing thing was working with Mike

1:15:40

White. I've always been a fan of Mike's

1:15:42

work. I think Enlightened is a genius television

1:15:44

show. Chuck and Buck, I love. Yeah, yeah,

1:15:46

yeah. I just think there's nobody quite like

1:15:49

him. Yeah, yeah. And the show is obviously,

1:15:51

you know, in the business, everyone was trying

1:15:53

to get on the White Lotus. Yeah, yeah.

1:15:55

And there was a part for me, so

1:15:58

I audition for it. And I don't know,

1:16:00

she wasn't. I do have a, whenever I

1:16:02

read a script, I have a feeling like

1:16:04

if I can picture myself doing it, then

1:16:07

I'm like, yeah, this is mine, I'd like

1:16:09

to go for this thing. Or I'm like,

1:16:11

oh, you know that you need. I'm always

1:16:13

casting the thing for, and I really felt

1:16:16

that was right. Who turns this down? Yeah,

1:16:18

right? Yeah, exactly. Five people before you got

1:16:20

to me. Yeah, she's not, I mean, she's

1:16:22

not that far from me. Like I feel

1:16:25

like the script is contemporary and contemporary and

1:16:27

accessible and accessible and accessible. And so there's

1:16:29

not, it's not like the gilded age, right?

1:16:31

It's not like there's a dialect and a

1:16:34

corset or anything. You're just like slouching around

1:16:36

your bathing suit. And you know, she's an

1:16:38

alcoholic, which I completely understand. I mean Mike's

1:16:40

so good at casting like there's something essential

1:16:43

in the person he puts in a part

1:16:45

Yeah, that makes them appropriate for the part

1:16:47

and then he's great at selecting for performance

1:16:49

Yeah, and he's also Mike is not precious

1:16:52

about his writing Yeah, he's pretty like he

1:16:54

responds to what actors are good at I

1:16:56

think and yeah, he throws out new stuff.

1:16:58

There's a lot of improv. Oh yeah and

1:17:01

yet He's also not arbitrary. So it's very

1:17:03

exactly, he knows what he needs. And he's

1:17:05

not getting it, you will stay there until

1:17:07

he gets it. So like you were saying

1:17:10

about your movie, it's satisfying at the end

1:17:12

of the day. think we would have gone

1:17:14

home if Mike didn't get what he needed

1:17:16

for the show. Right, you got to trust

1:17:19

a director in a certain degree. I can't

1:17:21

imagine what it would be like to not

1:17:23

trust a director. Well, you know, it happens,

1:17:25

but you know, we're like, well, I don't

1:17:28

think you know what you're doing. So I

1:17:30

guess I'll try to throw some stuff out

1:17:32

there. The director I work with on that

1:17:34

movie, I wouldn't say he's neurotic, but he's

1:17:37

very, you know, you know, The hard thing

1:17:39

for me when I do it is like,

1:17:41

where were we right before this if you're

1:17:43

shooting out of sea points? Oh, because you

1:17:46

always shoot up sea points. How the fuck

1:17:48

are you going to figure that out? But

1:17:50

this guy was very diligent to the point

1:17:52

where for the whole week, he write out

1:17:55

where you were. And I'm like, I can't

1:17:57

read all this. Just tell me. Five words

1:17:59

or less. Where are we in the story?

1:18:01

Yeah. So what was it that got you

1:18:04

into Alan on first? Well, I mean. I

1:18:06

don't want to speak to my people are

1:18:08

all still around. Sure. But there's, you know,

1:18:10

I'll just say there's alcoholism in my family.

1:18:13

Right. And what I came to understand is

1:18:15

that I had some emotional habits, things about

1:18:17

like not trusting other people, lying. I was

1:18:19

a compulsive liar. And enabling people please their

1:18:22

stuff? Absolutely, like completely, constitutionally incapable of any

1:18:24

conflict or any boundary setting. So I actually

1:18:26

had a boyfriend once. who we, I needed

1:18:28

to break up with him and I just

1:18:31

literally stopped speaking. And he actually came over

1:18:33

with like a pack of paper and said,

1:18:35

could you just write something down? Yeah. I

1:18:37

mean, I could not speak. That's how terrible

1:18:40

I was at, asserting what I needed or

1:18:42

wanting. So much so I think for, maybe

1:18:44

men can speak to this too, but I

1:18:46

know for women, it's like, you spend so

1:18:49

much time managing other people's emotions. As a

1:18:51

middle child too, I was always aware, everybody,

1:18:53

you're only as happy as the unhappiest person

1:18:55

in any room. Then you like, you lose

1:18:58

complete track of what it is you even

1:19:00

want. You're like, is it me that's, that

1:19:02

once this, or am I just like reading

1:19:04

what this person wants me me? Right, you

1:19:07

just become a reaction. Exactly, and I was

1:19:09

just remaking myself in the image of whatever

1:19:11

boyfriend I was with, and staying with them

1:19:13

as long as, and before, until I wanted

1:19:16

to explore. but didn't say that either. You

1:19:18

know, it was just like terrible. Yeah. And

1:19:20

it was very, you know, like I said,

1:19:22

controlling information is really egotistical. But that's interesting

1:19:25

about it. They can't take, they can't. Right,

1:19:27

no, right, right. And also, or that somebody

1:19:29

needs you, like they can't live without you,

1:19:31

because that one too. That was one I

1:19:34

really loved. It's egotistical, but also to speak

1:19:36

to that, like, what is self? You know,

1:19:38

when you live like that, you don't have

1:19:40

one. No, you don't. And you're so hyper

1:19:43

compartmentalized. Like you're just code switching all the

1:19:45

time. And there's nothing integrated about you as

1:19:47

a person. Now that we're talking about it,

1:19:49

I think that's why you get into performing

1:19:52

as almost like, you know, a fuck you

1:19:54

You know, I mean, like you can own

1:19:56

your own space and there's unity in it.

1:19:58

Yeah, and there's like the right kind of

1:20:01

attention Yeah, weirdly. There's probably like you have

1:20:03

some control over the but also there's you

1:20:05

have a thing. Yeah, it's a compartmentalized thing.

1:20:07

Yeah, we're all working to do this thing.

1:20:10

You also have freedom. Yeah, like nothing you're

1:20:12

doing inside of that is being like is

1:20:14

that how you're gonna you know there's no

1:20:16

one judging the way you're living your life

1:20:19

which I was also deeply uninterested in I

1:20:21

didn't well sometimes it gets a little competitive

1:20:23

I think sure that was the other thing

1:20:25

I kept thinking about when I did this

1:20:28

movie was when I talked to Ethan Hawke

1:20:30

about doing training day and he said he

1:20:32

was watching Denzel Washington movies like they were

1:20:34

training films like like like football teams watch

1:20:37

the other team because he just did not

1:20:39

want to get eaten for lunch. Yeah I

1:20:41

mean that's real you don't want to get

1:20:43

eaten for lunch that's true if you care

1:20:46

about what you're doing. Yeah it saved me

1:20:48

in a scene with that scene with Sharon

1:20:50

Stone it saved me. Uh-huh. Because I was

1:20:52

doing one scene with her and after the

1:20:55

first two takes I'm like, I'm disappearing dude.

1:20:57

I'm not in character. I'm just sitting there

1:20:59

going like Sharon Stone is consuming me. Yeah,

1:21:01

I felt that way with Holly Hunter. You

1:21:04

did? Oh, completely. I was terrified. And how'd

1:21:06

you transcend it? I was just like, I

1:21:08

just have to be really... and really prepared

1:21:10

and just like be really present. I don't

1:21:13

think I did. I think I was scared

1:21:15

the whole time. She's terrifying. I mean, I

1:21:17

love her so much. And she was marvelous

1:21:19

to me in this film we made, but

1:21:22

she's a terrifying scene partner because she has

1:21:24

that. thing inside of her, which is like

1:21:26

a cat, or like a live wire, and

1:21:28

you just like, oh, you could kill me.

1:21:31

You could actually kill me right now. You

1:21:33

might. I wouldn't see it coming. Yeah. And

1:21:35

you just, she's so alive. Yeah. The only

1:21:37

thing that saved me was this stuff I

1:21:40

got from Pachino's book, and I think it

1:21:42

was like, uh, stuff, stuff, go to the

1:21:44

character, why you there, where did you come

1:21:46

from, you know, you know, you're, what are,

1:21:49

you're, you know, what are, what are, what

1:21:51

are, what are, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're,

1:21:53

you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're,

1:21:55

you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're,

1:21:58

you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're,

1:22:00

you That's good, like, you know, it's acting

1:22:02

101 away, but it's like, you always are

1:22:04

like, oh, the basics, right? And you have

1:22:07

to go back to the basics, yeah. I

1:22:09

didn't even know the basics. Well, it takes

1:22:11

you outside of yourself. Yeah, after melting down

1:22:13

in my trailer, like Leonardo DiCaprio, and once

1:22:16

upon a time in Hollywood, yelling at my

1:22:18

manager, I'm like, I can't do this. You're

1:22:20

here. You do the thing. Do the thing.

1:22:22

Yeah. Do the guy. What does the guy

1:22:25

think about this person? Yeah. Why are you

1:22:27

here and fucking be in it? Yeah, get

1:22:29

outside of you and whatever your neuroses are.

1:22:31

You can't, you gotta check that stuff at

1:22:34

the door. You can't make it about you.

1:22:36

That's the nice thing though is it can't

1:22:38

be about you. But everything's about me. I

1:22:40

know, but that's, but that's the exercise you're

1:22:43

doing though. But the moment where you think

1:22:45

you fucked up a take and you like

1:22:47

that, those first two takes. I was looking

1:22:49

at every face going, man, it's like, and

1:22:52

that's like narcissism, you know. I guess, it's

1:22:54

helpful sometimes. It can't, I mean, I, it's

1:22:56

funny, I don't, I've gotten good about not,

1:22:58

like, Vicky Creeps said something in it, you

1:23:01

know, the great actress, Vicky Creeps, she was

1:23:03

talking about. She said that she's now approaches

1:23:05

the work in a take. She's like, how

1:23:07

wrong can I go? Like how far outside

1:23:10

of what this character is doing can I

1:23:12

go? And she said, that's what scientists do.

1:23:14

They're actually like trying to narrow down into

1:23:16

the thing by like, setting parameters that's what

1:23:19

scientists do. They're actually like trying to narrow

1:23:21

down into the thing by like kind of

1:23:23

setting parameters that are far outside of what

1:23:25

they're looking for. I was like, sorry, everybody.

1:23:28

That was so bad, you know, and try

1:23:30

again. And as a young actor and as

1:23:32

a young woman, where you're trying to be

1:23:34

a good girl and a good student, you're

1:23:37

trying to guess what everybody wants you to

1:23:39

do. And then you're not really making choices.

1:23:41

And you're certainly not making interesting choices. And

1:23:43

you're not giving a range of choices. Right,

1:23:46

but at some point you got to believe

1:23:48

that you're there because they wanted you. And

1:23:50

you do, you have to believe that. You're

1:23:52

right, you have to believe that. That's going

1:23:55

to save you. And I learned that like

1:23:57

all the way back in Virginia Wolf. I

1:23:59

was like, okay, you got this job. You

1:24:02

have this job. And now you have to

1:24:04

be in that room like you have this

1:24:06

job, not like you're trying to get this

1:24:08

job. That's right. You already have it. Yeah,

1:24:11

yeah. And that's like a really, that's like

1:24:13

a little click, but it's really important. He

1:24:15

wouldn't? No, I talked to him for like

1:24:17

two hours. Why? Because it wasn't, something wasn't

1:24:20

right. He's so controlling. God, I love him

1:24:22

so much. Why, what was it, what was

1:24:24

it about? Was it, did you have the-

1:24:26

Oh, he was wonderful to me. I had

1:24:29

a wonderful, that was my first movie I

1:24:31

ever made, Mark. I'd never made a movie

1:24:33

before and then I was working with David

1:24:35

Venture. Yeah. But like what about this, the

1:24:38

reputation of like a thousand things? Oh, I

1:24:40

mean, people knew they would get fired, you

1:24:42

know, people were getting, people get fired off

1:24:44

of David Finscher movies. Yeah. But what about

1:24:47

the multiple? Yes, absolutely. We did, we often

1:24:49

did 88 takes or 71 takes. And then

1:24:51

every now and then every now, we did,

1:24:53

we often did 88 takes or 71 takes.

1:24:56

And then every now and then you would

1:24:58

do. He was a director, he was a

1:25:00

director, he was thrilling for him. You know.

1:25:02

You have to be in the scene, you

1:25:05

know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But he was just

1:25:07

giving Ben so much shit all the time.

1:25:09

So he would, he would, he would, whenever

1:25:11

we would get, like I would get something

1:25:14

in five takes, he'd be like, Carrie, that

1:25:16

was excellent. Ben, could you be a little

1:25:18

less, some nambulant? You know, like, he was

1:25:20

such a shit. I remember there was one

1:25:23

take. I remember there was such a shit.

1:25:25

I remember there was such a shit. I

1:25:27

remember there was such a first time. down

1:25:29

there and Kate they were all really really

1:25:32

generous to me in that job but you

1:25:34

know he's so and my people are really

1:25:36

sarcastic and really dark and just like always

1:25:38

putting you in your place so for me

1:25:41

it was love language so I got along

1:25:43

great with David and I said to David

1:25:45

I was like David I was like David

1:25:47

I was like David I was like David

1:25:50

I was like David I hired somebody who

1:25:52

has never made a movie before I was

1:25:54

like David I hired somebody was never made

1:25:56

a movie I was like David I was

1:25:59

like he was so I can do you

1:26:01

know And he just taught me so much.

1:26:03

That's good. But he's really, but he's like

1:26:05

a, he's like an athlete and that he's

1:26:08

like, he's got this incredible field vision. He's

1:26:10

seeing everything at once. Right. And that's why

1:26:12

like you can't make it about you. If

1:26:14

it's about you, he'll tell you. Yeah. Don't

1:26:17

assume it's about you unless he tells you.

1:26:19

Right. Don't assume it's about you unless he

1:26:21

tells you. And yours has 13. You know

1:26:23

like that kind of. Like because a lot

1:26:26

of actors don't have the stage experience you

1:26:28

have. Yeah, helpful. Yeah, like, but how, because

1:26:30

it seems like there's a... Well, when you're

1:26:32

doing a play, you rehearse for five weeks.

1:26:35

But I'm always yelling. And like, I don't...

1:26:37

And yelling on set? Well, when I'm on

1:26:39

set, it's just a natural thing for me

1:26:41

to go, how's it going? Like, I don't...

1:26:44

Like, and then you're working with actors, like,

1:26:46

I can't hear you. Can't hear what yours,

1:26:48

it's just, we're just reading it out loud

1:26:50

in a room, could you read it out?

1:26:53

I know Tracy are always laughing about that.

1:26:55

Like why are you mumbling in here? But

1:26:57

the sort of shift from, because you're still

1:26:59

on stage in both situations. Yeah, in a

1:27:02

way. I mean, I always feel like, you

1:27:04

know, on stage, the thing about it is

1:27:06

that your body is always telling a story

1:27:08

in space, and so you have to be

1:27:11

really economical. Because any move you make, everybody

1:27:13

can see it, and you will either distract

1:27:15

or add to the story, depending on what

1:27:17

you're, like, like, Then even on camera, you're,

1:27:20

maybe it's more in body. Maybe. Oh, that's

1:27:22

interesting, because he said that about Tracy. Yeah,

1:27:24

he's, I always find that when people are

1:27:26

in their bodies, I think it's really sexy.

1:27:29

I just, it's very appealing to me. Yeah.

1:27:31

And I feel like I can tell actors

1:27:33

who sometimes have like, maybe just been doing

1:27:35

something too long. Yes, that too. That can

1:27:38

be really visceral. I'm in my body. I

1:27:40

don't love it. But you're aware of it

1:27:42

all the time. Totally. Yeah. Yeah, I mean

1:27:44

that counts. That counts. Absolutely. I give you

1:27:47

credit for that. Also in theater, the other

1:27:49

thing, people don't realize when the kids want

1:27:51

to be famous in TV. They don't realize

1:27:53

like when the kids want to be famous

1:27:56

in TV. They don't realize like, I remember

1:27:58

one of my jobs when I remember one

1:28:00

of my jobs when I was doing a

1:28:02

guest star spot. I held somebody hostage. Sure.

1:28:05

You're going to lose your voice. So like,

1:28:07

it's not easy to do something like that

1:28:09

for 17 hours. And I feel like theater

1:28:11

gives you a kind of stamina to. So

1:28:14

what's going on outside of White Lotus? What's

1:28:16

going on with his three daughters? Is that

1:28:18

up for anything? Oh, no. I mean. No,

1:28:20

it was hopeful. Netflix took really good care

1:28:23

of us, I think, and we had a

1:28:25

great... It's a great movie. I like Oz.

1:28:27

He's a great guy. I know, I know

1:28:29

you got to speak to him. I adore

1:28:32

him. And Tracy adores him. So glad I

1:28:34

got to work with him. And I love

1:28:36

Lizzy and Natasha. We had a really special

1:28:38

process. Yeah. That will. We had a really

1:28:41

special process. Yeah. That will. We had a

1:28:43

really special process. Yeah. We had a really

1:28:45

special process. Yeah. We had a good. We

1:28:47

had a really. We had a wonderful. We

1:28:50

had a wonderful. We had a wonderful award.

1:28:52

We had a wonderful. We had a wonderful.

1:28:54

We had a wonderful. We had a wonderful.

1:28:56

We had a wonderful. We had a wonderful.

1:28:59

We had a wonderful. We had a wonderful.

1:29:01

We had a wonderful. We had a. We

1:29:03

had a wonderful. We had a. We had

1:29:05

a. We had a great. We had a.

1:29:08

We had a. We had a and from

1:29:10

New Zealand. Is it down in Santa Monica?

1:29:12

I don't know, Mark. I can, I'm one

1:29:14

day at a time. Yeah, I went there

1:29:17

once. Maybe. Yeah, I think it's down on

1:29:19

the beach. Is it? Yeah, yeah, in the

1:29:21

beach. Well, the toxic ash is washing away

1:29:23

into the ocean now. Yeah, everybody's gonna try

1:29:26

to talk about that in a heartfelt way.

1:29:28

Oh, no. Yeah, I'm not gonna, I'm gonna,

1:29:30

I'm gonna present an award, an award, I

1:29:32

think, I'm going to present an award, I'm,

1:29:35

I'm, I'm going to present an award, I'm,

1:29:37

I'm, I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm

1:29:39

going to, I'm going to, I'm going to,

1:29:41

I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going

1:29:44

to, I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm

1:29:46

going to, I'm going to, I'm going to,

1:29:48

I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going

1:29:50

to And then I think Patton was hosting

1:29:53

it. Oh, Patton. I worked with Patton in

1:29:55

Ghostbusters. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, wait. He

1:29:57

thought I was in, uh, what's the, what's

1:29:59

the, what's the, you know, Pedro Pascal's show?

1:30:02

Oh, oh, the, the Apocalypse. Based on the

1:30:04

video game. The apocalypse, yeah, and a tour

1:30:06

of is in it. And Patton, when he

1:30:08

saw me on the set of, goes, she's

1:30:11

like, oh my God, my daughter and I

1:30:13

love your show, can I take your picture?

1:30:15

I was like, honey, Patton, I'm not anatore,

1:30:17

that's anatore of him. And he was like,

1:30:20

oh my God, it was so, he felt

1:30:22

so, he felt so terrible. He felt so,

1:30:24

he felt so terrible, but it was actually,

1:30:26

he felt so terrible, so terrible, he felt

1:30:29

so terrible, he felt so terrible, he was,

1:30:31

he felt so terrible, he was, he felt

1:30:33

so terrible, he was, he felt so terrible,

1:30:35

he was, he felt so terrible, he, he,

1:30:38

he felt so terrible, he, he, he felt,

1:30:40

he felt, he, he felt, he, he felt,

1:30:42

he felt, he, he felt, he felt, he

1:30:44

felt, he, he felt, he, he felt, he

1:30:47

felt, he, he, he felt, he felt Yeah,

1:30:49

I mean, you know what Jason Reitman's first

1:30:51

ghostbuster script the ghostbusters after life felt like

1:30:53

an indie film It felt like a Jason

1:30:56

Reitman independent film and McKenna Grace is a

1:30:58

great young actress and the fact that she

1:31:00

was going to be the protagonist of the

1:31:02

movie was great. So that felt like an

1:31:05

indie He's good. He's an intense guy and

1:31:07

I've liked a lot of his movies. I

1:31:09

like Jason a lot. Yeah, he's he's a

1:31:11

friend. That corny one. He did good yeah,

1:31:14

up in the good. Yeah, up in the

1:31:16

good. Yeah, up in the air. Yeah, up

1:31:18

in the air, up in the one. Right.

1:31:20

Right. That was kind of the one that

1:31:23

was kind of the one that was kind

1:31:25

of the one that was kind of the

1:31:27

one that was kind of the one that

1:31:29

was kind of the one that put him.

1:31:32

That was kind of the one that put

1:31:34

him. That was kind of the one that

1:31:36

put him. That was kind of the one

1:31:38

that put him. That was kind of the

1:31:41

one that I know, it's a great movie.

1:31:43

There's movies like that there, like, that I

1:31:45

can watch again, again and again. Well, I

1:31:47

mean, like, I have over 10,000 TVs in

1:31:50

my house, so we don't have time to

1:31:52

rewatch. To really rewatch? No. I'm finding I

1:31:54

do it more now, just to keep my

1:31:56

brain out of the shit. That's nice. Do

1:31:59

you find it comforting? I get very engaged

1:32:01

with movies. so permeable. Yeah and so like

1:32:03

so movies like when I leave a movie

1:32:05

I'm like that happened in my life. Oh

1:32:08

Mark how are we gonna get you some

1:32:10

boundaries honey? I'm working on it. You are?

1:32:12

Yeah I just hostility I think help. Oh

1:32:14

well that's okay that's another kind of reactivity

1:32:17

to rely on I guess. An aggressive boundary.

1:32:19

Maybe you need to go that maybe you

1:32:21

need to go that far and then you

1:32:23

know come back from it maybe. I probably

1:32:26

have to go back to hell and on.

1:32:28

Yeah you do you do you do you

1:32:30

do you to detach with I did a

1:32:32

joke a line that only people on Allen

1:32:35

on get about, I got to decide whether

1:32:37

I want to put it in the special,

1:32:39

because it's kind of, it's all about boundaries.

1:32:41

The arc of the bit is really, just

1:32:44

this whole relationship that was just horrible, and

1:32:46

she had mental problems, I have mental problems,

1:32:48

and it got to the point where after

1:32:50

we had broken up, she was just coming

1:32:53

by the house. Oh, no. Oh, that's not

1:32:55

good. And, you know, it's a little intense.

1:32:57

And I said, the truth is I said

1:32:59

I had to take out a restraining order

1:33:02

and I don't like to admit that, but

1:33:04

what I don't like to admit more is

1:33:06

the reason is that, like I didn't, I

1:33:08

didn't think she didn't. You couldn't set the

1:33:11

boundary yourself? That's right. I didn't think, I

1:33:13

didn't think she's going to hurt me. I

1:33:15

just, I was afraid I was going to

1:33:17

get back together. But I talk about going

1:33:20

to a men's alanong group, you know, because

1:33:22

out of panic and I was just, it's

1:33:24

just me in a room with 200 alpha

1:33:27

door mats. Totally. Yeah, yeah. It's so nice

1:33:29

to see that side of masculinity. Oh yeah.

1:33:31

Just these guys are like, I don't know

1:33:33

what I'm going to do. I can't seem

1:33:36

to tell her anything. Yeah, I can't break

1:33:38

up with her. Yeah. Oh dude, I here,

1:33:40

I studied abroad because I had two boyfriends.

1:33:42

Oh really? I was like, I think I'll

1:33:45

just go to Spain for a while. Oh

1:33:47

my God. And my grandma wrote me this

1:33:49

amazing letter where she was like, you know,

1:33:51

she saw all of it happening. You know,

1:33:54

she didn't learn to say no till her

1:33:56

70s, which she was very open. It's like

1:33:58

pity's not the same as love. And it

1:34:00

doesn't dignify the other person, it doesn't give

1:34:03

them any autonomy, doesn't give any, you know,

1:34:05

they're not making any decisions if you're not

1:34:07

giving them all the information. It's like, I

1:34:09

don't want to do this anymore. You can't

1:34:12

say that to somebody. It's awful. And then,

1:34:14

you know, everybody eventually winds up. Everybody, then,

1:34:16

you know, everybody eventually winds up. Everybody, then,

1:34:18

you know, everybody, eventually winds up, eventually winds

1:34:21

up, and you know, it's awful. Everybody, you

1:34:23

know, you know, you know, you know, you

1:34:25

know, you know, it, it, it, it, it's,

1:34:27

it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's awful. Everybody,

1:34:30

it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's awful.

1:34:32

You know, it's, it's awful. Everybody, you know,

1:34:34

you know, you know, you know, you know,

1:34:36

you know, you know, it's as you know.

1:34:39

I love that guy. I know he's a

1:34:41