0:00

Alright, let's do this.

0:02

How are you? What the

0:04

fuckers? What the fuck buddies?

0:06

What the fuck, Knicks? I'm

0:09

Mark Marin. This is my

0:11

podcast. WTF. Welcome to it.

0:13

We're still going. We're still

0:16

happening. So many years. So

0:18

many episodes into this thing.

0:20

I'm in a hotel room.

0:23

I'm in a weird old

0:25

kind of, it's not musty,

0:27

but I would say it's

0:29

complicated. It's a strangely complicated

0:32

hotel here in San Antonio,

0:34

Texas, right on the riverwalk.

0:36

I can open up my

0:39

window, step out onto a balcony,

0:41

and see just parades of tourists

0:43

just trudging along down the riverwalk.

0:45

And it's weird to be back

0:47

in San Antonio. I don't feel

0:49

like I've been here for a

0:51

while. and I've got some memory, it's an

0:54

odd thing when you've been doing comedy

0:56

as long as I have, that every

0:58

town you go to that you've been

1:00

to more than once in your life

1:02

doing comedy over the arc of your

1:04

comedy career is somewhat of a trauma

1:06

trigger because at different points in

1:09

your life you have a different

1:11

set of fears and panic and

1:13

professionalism and there's definitely some major...

1:15

trauma triggers here in San Antonio,

1:17

Texas for me. There's a couple

1:19

of good times. I think if

1:21

you go back in the catalog,

1:23

I don't remember which episode it

1:25

was. It might be the Lucas

1:27

Malandez episode. We were out in

1:30

the world wandering around San Antonio.

1:32

I think we went to the

1:34

Alamo and then we ended up

1:36

at some conjuto music festival.

1:38

That was one of the better

1:40

times. but really early on man they

1:43

used to have this club here

1:45

called the river center comedy club

1:47

and i remember when it opened

1:49

i can't even put a year

1:51

on it must be mid nineties

1:53

i don't know but when they

1:55

opened it everything was high end

1:57

man it was like this is

1:59

a hot new club and we

2:01

got you a hot new modern

2:03

condo to stay in and it

2:05

was just the best. And then

2:07

years later I went back and

2:09

no one was coming to the

2:11

club anymore and the condo was

2:13

garbage. It wasn't even the same

2:15

condo. Comedy condos are, someone should

2:17

do a documentary about that experience.

2:19

Because once a condo has been

2:21

around for a while and enough

2:23

monsters and comics and weirdos have

2:25

come through over the years, you

2:27

might not, you might not want

2:29

to sit on that leather couch.

2:31

Certainly you don't want to open

2:33

anything in the refrigerator and what

2:35

the fuck, when was the last

2:37

time those blankets were cleaned? Yeah,

2:39

and it's all your dirty peers

2:41

that are coming into that joint,

2:43

so that makes it even more

2:45

disturbing. But I remember one time

2:47

doing the River Center Comedy Club

2:49

here in San Antonio and the

2:51

place was huge. It was like

2:53

the size of a... of like

2:55

an airplane hangar in my memory

2:57

and I drew like 15 people

2:59

spread out in a room that's

3:01

seated like 400 and you don't

3:03

forget that kind of stuff. I

3:05

don't know where you catalog it

3:07

or where you repress it to

3:09

but not a great feeling just

3:11

waiting and realizing well this is

3:13

it this is going to be

3:15

the number of people that I'm

3:18

going to perform for tonight in

3:20

this large place and there's no

3:22

way it's not going to be

3:24

fucking pathetic. Yeah, and I remember

3:26

it was in the mall, it

3:28

was in the river center mall,

3:30

and one time I saw that

3:32

kid, who was the, it was

3:34

the weirdest thing, because I've never

3:36

met the guy, and I, you

3:38

know, I've always wanted to ask

3:40

him, you know, it was the

3:42

guy from, from ET, Henry Thomas,

3:44

it was here in San Antonio,

3:46

it was at the mall, it

3:48

must have been in the mid

3:50

90s or the mid to late

3:52

90s, and he was just like...

3:54

crouched on the side in the

3:56

mall watching people, observing. I don't

3:58

know, I'd really like to get

4:00

it verified, because maybe I was

4:02

just hallucinating, you know, because I'm

4:04

the guy who thought he saw

4:06

General Flynn in Glendale on my

4:08

hike. So I wouldn't trust my

4:10

eyes on this one, but I

4:12

do think it's possible that the...

4:14

guy from ET was at the

4:16

river center mall at some point

4:18

in his life. Perhaps, perhaps maybe

4:20

it was just a character he

4:22

played in ET and that's where,

4:24

you know, he went up and

4:26

came back down and ended up

4:28

there. I don't know, I don't

4:30

know. Look, today on the show

4:32

I talked to W. Kamal Bell.

4:34

He's, he's been on the show

4:36

quite a few times. He was

4:38

on pretty regularly, you know, right

4:40

from the start. The first time

4:42

he was on was episode 46.

4:44

And he was also interviewed for

4:46

the documentary about me, Are We

4:48

Good? And I'm doing a live

4:50

conversation with him at South by

4:52

Southwest this week. He's also out

4:54

on tour now and he's a

4:56

smart guy and I thought we'd

4:59

catch up. And also, also tour

5:01

dates. Durham, North Carolina. I'll be

5:03

at the Carolina Theater of Durham

5:05

on Friday, March 21st. Charlotte, North

5:07

Carolina. I'm at the Night Theater

5:09

on Saturday, March 22nd, and I'll

5:11

be in Charleston, South Carolina at

5:13

the Charleston Music Hall on Sunday,

5:15

March 23rd. Then Skokie, Illinois, I'm

5:17

coming to the North Shore Center

5:19

for the Performing Arts on Friday,

5:21

March 28th, and Juliet, Illinois. I'm

5:23

at the Rialto Square Theater on

5:25

Saturday, March 29th. Then I'm coming

5:27

to Michigan, Toronto, Vermont, New Hampshire,

5:29

New Hampshire, New Hampshire, New York

5:31

City, and New York City. for

5:33

my special taping. Go to wtfpod.com/tour

5:35

for all of my dates and

5:37

links to tickets. Do it there.

5:39

Don't go to scalper sites. Again,

5:41

do not search Mark Marin tour

5:43

tickets, your city, because you will

5:45

be taken to a number of

5:47

scalper sites. Go to the links

5:49

at wtfpod.com, slash tour, or go

5:51

to the venues links. So you

5:53

don't get ripped off or wonder

5:55

why I'm charging so much money

5:57

for tickets, because I don't really.

5:59

I still think I'm on the

6:01

lower end of that spectrum of

6:03

ticket price. This podcast is brought

6:05

to you by Squarespace and Squarespace

6:07

has been through a lot with

6:09

us. They've sponsored us for more

6:11

than a decade. Then we redesigned

6:13

wtopod.com with Squarespace and we launched

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a special site with them when

6:17

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That's squarespace.com/WTO offer code WTO. I

7:04

will tell you right now. And

7:06

I mean, Houston is my favorite

7:08

city in Texas. I can't exactly

7:10

explain why, but there's something about

7:12

the vibe in Houston that I

7:14

like, the way the city is

7:16

laid out in the surrounding areas

7:18

of downtown. But also, at some

7:20

point in time, someone with a

7:22

lot of money put a lot

7:24

of it into art and into

7:26

making great museums into a lot

7:28

of public art. And it was

7:30

just, every time I go there,

7:32

I'm like, this is like... This

7:34

is like a well-rounded city. It's

7:36

huge. I think it's one of

7:38

the most diverse cities, certainly in

7:40

Texas, but maybe in the country,

7:42

you can get all kinds of

7:44

great food there, Indian food, Asian

7:46

food, you know, Middle Eastern food.

7:48

It's just a very densely populated

7:50

and very diverse city. But the

7:52

art, the art always gets me,

7:54

man. And I always go back

7:56

when I'm there to the Rothko

7:58

Chapel. which is a very special

8:00

place. It was something that Mark

8:02

Rothko did. I don't know, I

8:04

could have, I wish I had

8:06

the brochure in front of me

8:08

or the information, but he was

8:10

contracted or was in alignment with

8:12

this non-denominational group who built. this

8:14

chapel that he had done. There's

8:16

probably about 10 huge Rothko paintings

8:19

in there, huge panels that are

8:21

the basically surrounding you in this

8:23

small chapel that is almost a

8:25

place for meditation. And I'd read

8:27

about it years ago and I

8:29

know that there was a problem

8:31

with it earlier on where because

8:33

of the quality of paints he

8:35

used, they were starting to fade,

8:37

but all the paintings have been

8:39

restored. And the last time I

8:41

was there. Just mind-blowing for me

8:43

because I'm a huge Rothko guy.

8:45

Nobody got right up against the

8:47

big empty like Rothko and His

8:49

abstractions for me are the They're

8:51

they're the real portal into you

8:53

know true abstraction into true sort

8:55

of like a kind of mind-altering

8:57

experience with pure painting. And the

8:59

first time I went to the

9:01

Rothko Chapel, I was kind of

9:03

stunned and a bit overwhelmed. And

9:05

this time I went back. And

9:07

it was really a different experience.

9:09

I took Blair there, she had

9:11

not been there. And we sat

9:13

with the paintings for quite a

9:15

while, probably 20 minutes, half hour.

9:17

And you could just spend the

9:19

whole day in there, really, because

9:21

as you sit there, something seems

9:23

to happen with your brain and

9:25

the paintings. First, you go in

9:27

and they're not quite defined in

9:29

any way, because they all are

9:31

very dark, and some of them

9:33

almost appear to be one color.

9:35

But there is some geometric elements

9:37

in a couple of the panels,

9:39

but you have to sit there

9:41

for a while until they kind

9:43

of come into focus and start

9:45

doing their magic of transporting you

9:47

to a place just outside of

9:49

regular consciousness and maybe pretty far

9:51

outside regular consciousness or normal consciousness

9:53

or your consciousness, depending on what

9:55

you let your brain do with

9:57

them. But there was something about

10:00

this time that I had not

10:02

done last time is that, you

10:04

know, I know Rothko was a

10:06

depressive. I know he's a heavy...

10:08

cat, you got to be pretty

10:10

heavy to have the confidence and

10:12

skill set to do the type

10:14

of painting he did. But I

10:16

started to realize this time that

10:18

I visited the chapel that these

10:20

were very dark and the place

10:22

it takes you is not, it's

10:24

a spiritual space and I wouldn't

10:26

say that you're kind of looking

10:28

into the abyss but it's close.

10:30

There is something about the tone

10:32

of the work. where it does

10:34

take you out of yourself and

10:36

into a kind of transcendent zone,

10:38

but I started to realize, like,

10:40

I don't know if this is

10:42

spiritual light, like I don't know

10:44

if we're heading into the light,

10:46

I think he's creating a space

10:48

at the edge of darkness, and

10:50

it's not a uplifting space, it

10:52

is maybe a meditative space, but

10:54

then I realize like he committed

10:56

suicide, and I was curious this

10:58

time, But these were some of

11:00

the last paintings he did before

11:02

he just crumbled. And I'm like,

11:04

I don't know if this is,

11:06

if you look at it that

11:08

way, if you frame it contextually

11:10

historically in relation to Mark Rothko,

11:12

if this is really an uplifting

11:14

experience, I think these panels are

11:16

not necessarily a cry for help,

11:18

but certainly a hello to the

11:20

darkness. So my experience there, though

11:22

spiritual, was, I wouldn't say uplifting.

11:24

if you know what I'm saying.

11:26

This show is sponsored by better

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help folks. Good transition. We're at

11:30

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11:32

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11:34

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anywhere. I think a therapy is

12:09

something necessary for my life, not

12:11

a thing I need in an

12:13

emergency, just something that helps me

12:15

stay grounded. And better help can

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12:31

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12:35

WTOF. Also in Houston, I reached

12:37

out to Mo Ammer, who I

12:39

had on recently, he's got the

12:41

show Mo, Palestinian-American comic, lives in

12:43

Houston, and what a great guy.

12:45

Mo Hammer, there's something about people

12:47

that were brought up in a

12:49

close-knit community, close to their family,

12:51

where they just have a certain,

12:53

you know, they put a premium

12:55

on hospitality and also just being

12:57

decent people. I mean, Mo showed

12:59

up at my house with a

13:01

bottle of... Palestinian olive oil that

13:03

is really the best olive oil

13:05

I've ever had in my life.

13:07

He brought a gift which is

13:09

so nice and I've noticed this

13:11

from certain ethnic groups that that

13:13

people are part of who have

13:15

come on my show. Koreans, Egyptians,

13:17

they bring gifts and it's something

13:20

that I'm not good at and

13:22

it's something you should do. Like

13:24

if you show up at someone's

13:26

house, you know, if you're invited

13:28

somewhere, you should bring a little

13:30

something. I guess it's common knowledge.

13:32

I don't always register it and

13:34

I always, you know, a lot

13:36

of times I make excuses. Like

13:38

for instance, I texted Mo in

13:40

Houston and he's like, he had

13:42

things to do, man. I mean

13:44

him and his wife were going

13:46

to go out and celebrate her

13:48

birthday that night and I was

13:50

only in town for one day

13:52

and he was, and I just,

13:54

I just texted him to ask

13:56

him for some food wrecks, you

13:58

know, an Indian restaurant. maybe a

14:00

Middle Eastern restaurant. And Mo just

14:02

texted back, like, come over. Come

14:04

over, we'll make some falafel, you'll

14:06

hang out, you'll meet, you can

14:08

meet my wife and my son.

14:10

And I'm like, yeah, man, I'm

14:12

gonna do that, I'm coming over.

14:14

And I went over there and

14:16

I brought nothing, because I didn't

14:18

have any time. But I feel

14:20

bad about it now, because his

14:22

wife made. these amazing falafels from

14:24

his from most mom's you know

14:26

recipe or his grandmother's recipe best

14:28

falafel I ever had they got

14:30

a beautiful garden there was vegetables

14:32

from the garden there was a

14:34

you know they whipped up some

14:36

tahini sauce and it was and

14:38

we just sat and talked and

14:40

laughed and laughed told some comic

14:42

story he showed me around the

14:44

garden around the house I met

14:46

his young son and his wife

14:48

was just amazing and they were

14:50

going out in a couple hours

14:52

I just couldn't believe the hospitality

14:54

of it was so warm and

14:56

it definitely made me feel connected

14:58

not just to my community but

15:01

to a city and to comedy

15:03

and to you know friends. I

15:05

just can't speak highly enough about

15:07

being human and treating other humans

15:09

with respect and love and you

15:11

know just I don't know man.

15:13

I've been really kind of hung

15:15

up on this lately and just

15:17

getting out in the world with

15:19

the people and talking to people

15:21

and spending time with your friends

15:23

in real time having real conversations

15:25

and eating good food and just,

15:27

you know, focus on that. Stay

15:29

in touch with your humanity, will

15:31

you? All right, so Kamal Bell.

15:33

is, as I said, he's a

15:35

regular guest on this show. If

15:37

there are regular guests, he's one

15:39

of them. And he's touring right

15:41

now who'll be in San Diego

15:43

this Friday, Saturday, and Sunday at

15:45

Mike Drop Comedy. You can go

15:47

to W. kamalbell.com for the rest

15:49

of his tour dates and locations.

15:51

And I'll be doing a conversation

15:53

with him at South by Southwest

15:55

on Wednesday at 4 p.m. at

15:57

4 p.m. at the Austin Convention

15:59

Center. And it was good to

16:01

catch. up with Kamal and you

16:03

can listen to that now. The fact

16:05

that we don't do video. Oh yeah. It's

16:07

a different video. Oh yeah. It's a different

16:10

game, but oddly we've noticed that some people

16:12

are coming back around to audio. Yeah. So

16:14

we're like, we're part of the new analog

16:16

craze. Which makes sense for you, that you'd

16:19

be like, I'll take it. You're the vital

16:21

of podcast. I'll take it. Yeah, it's fine

16:23

with me. I never wanted to be at

16:26

the, I didn't want to be in the

16:28

Gladiator arena. I'm fine on the second stage.

16:30

No for sure. And I see you're doing

16:32

things where you put photos in and stuff

16:35

and like, like, when you promote the thing,

16:37

you put like... Sometimes on Instagram when they

16:39

do that. Yeah, that's that's a guy I'm

16:41

not I'm not I'm not I'm not I

16:44

know it's not you on your phone like

16:46

we find a good picture of Conan O'Brien

16:48

as a baby. Yeah, I'm not I can't

16:50

do that shit. No, you shouldn't. It just

16:53

it takes too much time and I don't

16:55

know how to use time anyways. I mean

16:57

the weird thing that people don't realize about

16:59

self-employment is that you know it's a tough

17:02

choice. between the phone and the kid, but

17:04

I usually go with the kid, I imagine.

17:06

Well, no, one of the saddest things I

17:08

can hear from my kid is, Dad, can

17:11

you put the phone down? And I'd like

17:13

to say I've never heard that, but I've

17:15

heard that. You know, I don't. Can you

17:17

look at me? Can you look at me?

17:20

Can you look at me? Yeah. Oh, yeah,

17:22

no, I'll be right there. No, we don't

17:24

have to. So I feel compelled. I guess

17:26

my wife says it all the time. I

17:29

was like, I feel compelled to keep up

17:31

with. No, I do too. Yeah. You know,

17:33

and there is a, you know, once you're,

17:35

you've been in the political racket for a

17:38

while in terms of. covering it one way

17:40

or the other. And once you're locked into

17:42

the narrative and you kind of know the

17:44

players and you got a basic sense of

17:47

how it works, which I only have a

17:49

basic sense. I couldn't tell you how. Congress

17:51

works in depth. Well, it's funny, like that's

17:53

I feel like there's always somebody on TV

17:56

who's a Congress person who I've never seen

17:58

before and you're like, I feel like I

18:00

know who these people are. Well, there's a

18:02

lot of Congress. There's just a lot of

18:05

them. So there's just yeah, just in terms

18:07

of the politics of Congress, the politics of

18:09

the Senate, the going back and forth, you

18:11

know, the sort of nuances of the. the

18:14

relationship between the three branches which is all

18:16

being disrupted now and probably never going to

18:18

be the same. I don't know that stuff

18:21

but I can follow a narrative and the

18:23

truth of the matter is is that the

18:25

depth of which I'm following it, it doesn't

18:27

matter if I'm seeing it as breaking news.

18:30

Yeah. It's not like... It's not gonna come

18:32

back to you. Mark, you missed it. Yeah,

18:34

and it's not gonna change my life. No.

18:36

Other than whatever I'm gonna do with my

18:39

head, which is not good. Yeah, well this

18:41

is it. This is it. A lot of

18:43

that. It's over. Yep. There yeah, yeah, yeah.

18:45

And then that just fucks up your day

18:48

and then your day and then your kids

18:50

like, you put the like, you put the

18:52

phone up, you put the phone down, like,

18:54

you put the phone down, you put the

18:57

phone down, you put the phone down, you

18:59

put the phone down, you put the phone

19:01

down, you put the phone down, you put

19:03

the phone down, you put the phone down,

19:06

you put the phone down, you put the

19:08

phone down, you put the phone down, you

19:10

put the phone down, like, you put the

19:12

phone down, you, Yeah, why are you yelling

19:15

at your phone? Yeah, right? Yeah, I mean,

19:17

I think that I just suffer from the,

19:19

because I'm sort of try to be, you

19:21

know, in that instant response thing to keep

19:24

the algorithm fed, that like you feel like,

19:26

I gotta get a thing out about a

19:28

thing that just happened. Oh, I don't do

19:30

it. Yeah, yeah. Again, you've reached a velocity

19:33

that is in a different place. Not really,

19:35

I just do this on the mic, you

19:37

know, It was, it was, it's, there's a

19:39

futility to it, number one. It's relatively self-serving.

19:42

And then, you know, the 100 to 200,

19:44

even to 5,000 replies you get, all you

19:46

did was make them feel better or pissed

19:48

off of you. Yeah. But ultimately in terms

19:51

of traction or having an impact, you know,

19:53

the best you can do, I guess, is

19:55

make people feel better for a second. Exactly,

19:57

yeah, make people feel seen and yeah, and

20:00

I know that the there is value in

20:02

that Because it's because of the way this

20:04

all this stuff nonsense works is that the

20:07

more you can sort of the more I

20:09

can be out there sort of like making

20:11

people feel seen or hurt or whatever Then

20:13

when I go hey guys, can you watch

20:16

this thing that I just made? so that

20:18

my kids can keep eating. That they go,

20:20

oh yeah, he's been around. Yeah, can you

20:22

watch this thing for money? Yeah, because I

20:25

need you to watch this for money. Can

20:27

you buy tickets to my tour? Can you

20:29

buy tickets? Yeah. Well, I've been having some,

20:31

there was a big shift in my approach

20:34

to, I think, performing in whatever is happening

20:36

now versus the first Trump administration. And in

20:38

terms of. You know, what's required of me,

20:40

you know, in relation to my audience? Because

20:43

you get to a certain age where you're

20:45

like, all right, this is my audience, you

20:47

know, for better or worse, you know, they're

20:49

grown-ups, they're thinking people, they're terrified, and there

20:52

is that element of, not just feeling seen,

20:54

but when you do a show, and I

20:56

imagine you feel the same way. This is

20:58

a community service. Yes, yeah, yeah. People expect

21:01

more than just the last. Well, it's not

21:03

even a matter of expectation. They're literally in

21:05

a room with like-minded people. depending on what

21:07

your audience is, let's say 500 or more,

21:10

which never happens, laughing at things that they

21:12

understand and want to laugh at, need relief

21:14

from, because you have to assume that no

21:16

one's out there doing the civil actions every

21:19

day. They're on their phones or freaking out

21:21

with their phones with other people, and all

21:23

of a sudden there's, you know, 500 to

21:25

a thousand of them in a room together,

21:28

and I think it's, that's the important part.

21:30

Yeah, and I think the thing that I

21:32

feel, especially now, is a responsibility to like,

21:34

yay, we're all here, let's laugh, I have

21:37

a way of saying things and make you

21:39

feel better about things or enlightening you or

21:41

whatever, blah, blah, blah, blah. But also then

21:43

my job is to be like, also, here's

21:46

some things you need to go do. you

21:48

leave here. Oh, you do that? I do

21:50

that. Do you hand out pamphlets? Just cure

21:52

our codes, Mark. It's cure our codes. You

21:55

hold up a board with a cure code

21:57

on it. I think I want to get

21:59

a tattoo just so I can like, yeah,

22:02

this is the link to all the things

22:04

that you can, the actions that can be

22:06

taken. Yeah, all the things, I literally have

22:08

that in a link tree and have a

22:11

friend who, yeah, who put it the other

22:13

for me. Because I just like, I have

22:15

to put it, I have to put it,

22:17

who put it, who put it, I have

22:20

to put it, who put it, who put

22:22

it, I have to the other, I have,

22:24

who put it, who put it, I have,

22:26

I have, I have, I have, who put

22:29

it, who put it, who put it, I

22:31

have, who put it, I have, who put

22:33

it, I have, I have, I have, who

22:35

put it, who put it, it, So, uh...

22:38

What's the list? Maybe I should have it.

22:40

It's just a list of subjects that if

22:42

you should, that if you're interested in, like

22:44

you can, you can always find, if your

22:47

immigrant rights organizations always help. There's an organization

22:49

called Donor's Shoes that I'm on the board

22:51

of that just supports the public schools. And

22:53

you can just give them $25 and feel

22:56

like you did something. If you Google Mutual

22:58

Aid in your area, you can always find

23:00

organizations that will just take stuff. It will

23:02

just take your things. And so I feel

23:05

like those three areas, I feel like are

23:07

the areas that especially live in California that

23:09

are the most impactful immediately and not like.

23:11

go to maybe go to a protest maybe

23:14

but that's not actually the thing and then

23:16

and then figure out what do you do

23:18

for a living this is why I tell

23:20

about time where and figure out what you

23:23

can do from your job so you don't

23:25

actually have it's not always about going somewhere

23:27

what are you doing at your job but

23:29

but what you know it well yeah I

23:32

I can understand all those things and those

23:34

seems to be things that would you know

23:36

help and and make people feel like they

23:38

were doing something But I guess my concern

23:41

as time goes on here is that we're

23:43

being terrorized. And you know in terms of

23:45

speaking up or making a stand at work,

23:47

I mean, you know, and this is going

23:50

to happen at all levels of liberal intention

23:52

that people are going to be afraid for

23:54

whatever reason, whether it's physically or that they're

23:57

going to lose their job. But I don't

23:59

think it's always about like... speaking up at

24:01

work, it's also just about. There are people

24:03

at your work who could use your support

24:06

that you maybe aren't thinking about right now.

24:08

I don't mean in like a like stand

24:10

on the table and flip stuff over, but

24:12

like you may work with people who are

24:15

undocumented or have your status and then maybe

24:17

a way you can go, hey, what do

24:19

you need? What can I do? I need

24:21

a casserole. I think we get too caught

24:24

up in the big giant things. It's like,

24:26

most of it is like, like for example,

24:28

like there's all this boycott talk about. boycotting

24:30

Target and boycotting Walmart because they divest it

24:33

out of DEA. They throw their DEA stuff

24:35

away. And and people like boycott and people

24:37

think boycott is just a magical like Harry

24:39

Potter I've been I'm cynical about it I've

24:42

been publicly cynical about boycott well I think

24:44

I've sort of been like well if it's

24:46

a boycott you know it has to be

24:48

organized so like I think I always I

24:51

want the Montgomery bus boycott like they boycott

24:53

of the bus systems but they also made

24:55

sure people had rides to work in school

24:57

right because you can't just say boycott the

25:00

bus system yeah and also if you're gonna

25:02

boycott target and what Walmart so what are

25:04

your options that's the thing is like that's

25:06

the store they killed all the mom and

25:09

pop stores sure so a lot of black

25:11

activists are like we can't just say boycott

25:13

like it's the same and we can't say

25:15

boycott without how do you make sure people

25:18

get what they need yeah don't go to

25:20

those places yeah you got to find some

25:22

alternative shopping situation for sure and also when

25:24

you go to stores that aren't those stores,

25:27

it's hard to get what you want sometimes.

25:29

It's a little more true. They're always telling

25:31

you, oh, just order it online. Exactly. Well,

25:33

and I think for me, like, it's just

25:36

like, I'm going to try to like, you

25:38

know, I'm in the position where like, I

25:40

can shop at bookstores in my neighborhood that

25:42

I'm paying more than I would at Amazon,

25:45

but it just feels better, you know what

25:47

I mean. I can do that. You're at

25:49

that level. Do you know who I am?

25:52

Yeah. You don't even need that. Oh yeah.

25:54

They know who you are. I would say

25:56

that for like... land and amusement parks. Oh,

25:58

that's where you can use the hookups? That's

26:01

where I use the hookups. Because that's a

26:03

lot. I get a lot of books. I

26:05

get books sent to me that. I'll buy

26:07

books. You know, I bought that, how fascism

26:10

works book. Yeah. Yeah. And the joke I

26:12

made about was I'm about halfway through, but

26:14

I can just read the news now and

26:16

get the other. But let's talk about this.

26:19

I know that there were some. press lately

26:21

and I don't know where you what happened

26:23

or what the follow-through was I mean but

26:25

you you chose to honor your dates at

26:28

the Kennedy Center I had one date at

26:30

the Kennedy Center in February 13 and you

26:32

did it I did it and this was

26:34

after everyone pulled out Well, no, this is

26:37

why I think it's the algorithm is so

26:39

funny because I have people approaching me now

26:41

on the street literally saying like, are you

26:43

going to do that date still? Are you

26:46

going to do it? It's two weeks ago,

26:48

you know, so like the algorithm has confused

26:50

people what the detail is. Oh, so it

26:52

hadn't happened yet. So the date has happened,

26:55

but like, what happened was like, I was

26:57

in on the flight headed to DC as

26:59

Trump announced he was taking it. The Kennedy's

27:01

gonna reach out to me because they were

27:04

like they would have understood if I was

27:06

canceling. But the whole premise of Trump saying,

27:08

I don't want woke stuff in there, I

27:10

was like, well, he doesn't want me. So

27:13

I'm going to be as woke as I

27:15

can be. To me, that felt like there's

27:17

different ways to do this. There's the way

27:19

of like, I don't want to give you

27:22

my services. Or there's a way of like,

27:24

I don't want to give you my services.

27:26

Or there's a way of like, I'm going

27:28

to be a revolutionary act relative to things

27:31

that had already. No, so when I was

27:33

headed there, Shonda Rimes had pulled out, Ben

27:35

Folds, and they're on the board. They didn't

27:38

have dates there. And then Issa Ray had

27:40

an event that was sold out, that was

27:42

like later in March, and she canceled. And

27:44

so when Issa Ray canceled, there was a

27:47

little bit of... like people coming to like,

27:49

why aren't you supporting, Issa Ray canceled? Why

27:51

aren't you supporting? Like, you know, when I

27:53

read about your take on it, it seems

27:56

to me that the thing would be to

27:58

go into those spaces and do your thing.

28:00

And then if they pull you off stage,

28:02

then you've done some sort of act of

28:05

not even civil disobedience, but protest against the

28:07

dominating cultural ideology. And there's a sense of

28:09

like. I was like, I'm gonna go and

28:11

they're gonna have to lock me out. If

28:14

they don't lock me out, then I'm gonna

28:16

really make sure I do. That I really

28:18

sort of pay its chit like sort of

28:20

like channeled the spirits of Lenny Bruce sure

28:23

Gregory and do it the way that and

28:25

there's also like there's 1500 people who came

28:27

to the thing who live in DC her

28:29

being like who are experiencing whatever we're experiencing

28:32

about DC there on the front lines of

28:34

it sure trauma every day and the people

28:36

who work there the same they needed a

28:38

shit like they like needed what I do

28:41

and I'm not trying to make it a

28:43

big deal. a ton of, I just don't

28:45

think that the monologue jokes by and large

28:47

are enough to kind of take the air

28:50

out of this thing in a show. Do

28:52

you know what I mean? Like I have

28:54

found that going up there and saying, look,

28:56

you know, at least spend 15 minutes saying,

28:59

look, I'm in the same place you are

29:01

mentally. I'm experiencing the same powerlessness and hopelessness

29:03

and fear. This is my reaction to it,

29:05

which generally is funny. And, you know, I've

29:08

got a couple of bits. And then the

29:10

shift in my... presentation as a comic is

29:12

becoming like now I'm going to entertain. Yes.

29:14

Yeah. And I've never really been that guy.

29:17

Oh yeah. But like I've really kind of

29:19

focused on like we'll get this out of

29:21

the way we're all on the same page

29:23

and now like I've got some entertaining things

29:26

to do. I never looked at myself as

29:28

an entertainer. I know. I don't think that

29:30

I necessarily changed my material but I you

29:33

know I tell a 20 minute story about

29:35

a vacuum. with my cat. So that's pretty

29:37

funny. Yeah. And I think I for me

29:39

like that night and I didn't know what

29:42

the plan I'm like writing backstage like trying

29:44

to think of like maybe say this because

29:46

there's all this time is happening. And then

29:48

later it was like as it was as

29:51

it was written up like the first 20

29:53

minutes was basically just like hey guys we're

29:55

here yeah the Kennedy Center give it up

29:57

for the people in the back. I've made

30:00

jokes about I say, you know, after United

30:02

States, I say thank you to my, thank

30:04

you for your service to everybody. Like not

30:06

just, not just military people, so thank you

30:09

for your service if you're working here right

30:11

now. Sure. And there have been a protest

30:13

out front, a dance protest of drag queens,

30:15

and I went out there and hung out

30:18

with them, and I gave it up for

30:20

them, and sort of like just said, we're

30:22

here in this now doing this, and had

30:24

jokes, but some of them were just sort

30:27

of at that at that point, just ill

30:29

form statements, just ill form statements, just ill

30:31

form statements, just ill form statements, just ill

30:33

form statements, just ill form statements, just ill

30:36

form statements, settle and realize that I'm with

30:38

I'm in this with you right now I'm

30:40

gonna tell you about my kids you know

30:42

and then that's right that's exactly right now

30:45

I'll do the thing that I came here

30:47

to do that yeah and I was a

30:49

little bit afraid that they people be like

30:51

get back to how demographers is following but

30:54

they actually want to hear about the kids

30:56

they don't want to just stay in that

30:58

well yeah they want to know that you're

31:00

on board but like you know it's that

31:03

sort of that sort of thing that's I

31:05

wonder about that's that when you're a public

31:07

person who they assume has a voice. And

31:09

I try to keep my politics pretty personal,

31:12

you know, I in the sense that I

31:14

will speak up against fascism because we're living

31:16

in it and we've almost been in it

31:18

many times. and now it's here but you

31:21

know i'm not gonna you know sit there

31:23

and deconstruct the fucking news i'd rather put

31:25

a gun in my mouth you're not more

31:28

solid with the newspaper well no i mean

31:30

you can do that but like what newspaper

31:32

do you know like i mean it's not

31:34

even that it's just that you know with

31:37

somebody who has a microphone that you know

31:39

it's a it's a different it's a different

31:41

show and different set of chops to be

31:43

into the new cycle every day yeah and

31:46

what are you then because i know you

31:48

can get into a certain mania with that

31:50

stuff to where you're not even humanizing No,

31:52

and I think that for me, this is

31:55

where I sort of had this idea of

31:57

like, I'm not actually like These are the

31:59

parts of it I care about and have

32:01

jokes for. I'm not going to go through

32:04

the news with you. Right. Because I don't

32:06

think I have takes that are like, somehow,

32:08

like, here's where, here's where, I don't have,

32:10

like, takes like that. Well, you know, I

32:13

mean, we don't have time, you know, even

32:15

if you're touring lot to go, like, do

32:17

you guys see Jim Jordan today? Unless something

32:19

really funny half with Jim Jordan. Yeah. Yeah,

32:22

maybe half the crowds the crowd side of

32:24

the crowdside side of the crowdside side. That's

32:26

the crowd side of the crowd side. That's

32:28

the crowd side. That's the crowd. That's the

32:31

crowd's the crowd's the crowd's the crowd's the

32:33

crowd's the crowd's the crowd's the crowd's the

32:35

crowd. I'm not going on the crowd. I'm

32:37

not going on the crowd. I'm not going

32:40

on the crowd. I'm not going on the

32:42

crowd. I'm not going on the crowd. I'm

32:44

not are still sort of speaking about this

32:46

as if it's a a presidency yes yeah

32:49

it's sort of like when are you guys

32:51

gonna yeah that's my way that's my main

32:53

thing to be like you know after the

32:55

Elon Musk Nazi salute I'm like okay we

32:58

have if we can't be clear about this

33:00

we're due yeah you're sitting there going like

33:02

you know you can be like Bill Maher

33:04

it's like well I'm gonna agree with some

33:07

of the things that Trump is true I'm

33:09

not it's like dude you're a bitch you're

33:11

a bitch you're a You know, we, you

33:14

know, Kid Rock, I like Kid Rock, and

33:16

it's like, do you? I like that one

33:18

song. Yeah, and now you're gonna, you're gonna

33:20

blow him? Yeah. With a slightly disdainful look

33:23

on your face, and that's who you are?

33:25

There's a whole generation of comedians who have

33:27

been confused about the fact that they're smart

33:29

for comedians, and thinking that means that they're

33:32

smart generally. And I think that like, like,

33:34

there's just a whole bunch of comedians who

33:36

have been sort of like heralded for their

33:38

hot takes and, and they're not, there's just,

33:41

yeah, for a comedian you're doing a good

33:43

job, but it's not, you're not doing a

33:45

good job for a person who thinks about

33:47

this stuff. But you know, there's this, a

33:50

spectrum of comedians, sure, this or that, but

33:52

like, you know, early on, I think you

33:54

responded to that post I did about, you

33:56

know, if you're a useful idiot, you know

33:59

you are and you're in it for the

34:01

grift. Yeah. Or you don't. Yeah. Or you

34:03

just believe that shit, which is fine. But

34:05

even believing that shit at this point, it's

34:08

like, well, this is fundamentally anti-democratic. And then

34:10

I'm working on this bit about how like

34:12

these bold freedom of speech warriors who have

34:14

now finally got the right to speak power

34:17

to truth. What courageous freedom of speech warriors?

34:19

Perhaps they can make truth just run away.

34:21

I believe the winners are correct. Oh yeah.

34:23

Oh yeah. And I would be, I was

34:26

so, you know, the whole Rogan's fear of

34:28

comedians under him who were like proud to

34:30

show up and sit at the inauguration and

34:32

like, dude, you've just been bought and I

34:35

don't think you even sold yourself for that

34:37

much. Well, I don't yeah, it's very hard

34:39

for me to understand it, you know with

34:41

like first of all with sociopaths I talked

34:44

about this with Brendan that you know I'm

34:46

like do they believe it or do they

34:48

know it's a grift and he said sociopaths

34:50

believe what they're saying You know, which is

34:53

disturbing. I'd rather them be just you know,

34:55

pitchment Yeah, or I'll say no politics enough

34:57

to know what they're they're angling for even

34:59

if it's about money But you know, but

35:02

some of these comics The guys that, you

35:04

know, are aparachics, there's only like three or

35:06

four of them, but there is a bunch

35:09

of people beneath them who use their juice.

35:11

Yes, yes, yes. for their audience. Now, for

35:13

me, it's sort of like, I couldn't even

35:15

imagine performing for that audience. I could do

35:18

it. I've done it before. I go out

35:20

into the regular rooms. I, you know, but

35:22

I, I assume that they all think, you

35:24

know, I'm some sort of woke, fuck, which

35:27

I am, mostly, but, but you're also, nobody

35:29

can question your comedy bona fides either. No,

35:31

I know that, but like, like, I don't

35:33

necessarily, even, even, even, even, even if I,

35:36

even if I, If I feel like, you

35:38

know, well, fuck it, I'm going to see

35:40

there's a challenge and I'm going to make

35:42

these animals laugh. It's like, what's the victory

35:45

there? That's my whole point. That's my whole

35:47

point. In my return to comedy at this

35:49

point, like I didn't do it for five

35:51

years. You didn't? I was out for five

35:54

years. five years. Five years. Yeah. So like

35:56

when COVID hit, I thought maybe I'm really

35:58

out because I was like, I'd been out

36:00

for a couple years at that point. Yeah.

36:03

Because I started doing like doc. Like. Well,

36:05

I remember the documentary, the Cosby documentary, and

36:07

then you had the CNN show, right? Yeah.

36:09

So I was like working and like, but

36:12

just, but when, and so when I was

36:14

home, I'd be like, I don't go on

36:16

do stand up because I'm not home that

36:18

often anyway. And so I thought I thought

36:21

I was retired. But then I was retired.

36:23

But then when I was like, like, like,

36:25

like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

36:27

like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

36:30

like, like, like, like, like, like, like, I

36:32

don't want to go to the punch on

36:34

on Sunday nights and stand in the back.

36:36

Like I don't want to like do it

36:39

that way. Why would you have to do

36:41

it that way? Because that's what I think,

36:43

that's what comedy, you have to go to

36:45

the club and you have to. I know,

36:48

but I mean, but why would you stand

36:50

in the back? You could get your spot?

36:52

No, but you know what I mean, but

36:54

why would you stand in the back? You

36:57

could get your spots? No, but you know

36:59

what you know what you know what you

37:01

know what you know what I mean, what

37:04

I mean, what I mean, what I mean,

37:06

what I mean, what you know what I

37:08

mean, what I mean, what you know what

37:10

I mean, I mean, what you know what

37:13

you know what, I mean, I mean, what

37:15

you know what, I mean, I mean, I

37:17

mean, I mean, I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm,

37:19

I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, and I don't I

37:22

want to be if I'm out of my

37:24

house I want to be really productive I

37:26

don't be hanging out right so I had

37:28

to sort of decide like it's okay to

37:31

not do it that way and so I

37:33

just started booking like this an hour the

37:35

birthday wrap had the birthday wrap had like

37:37

a birthday wrap had like a small 60

37:40

seat the year that's what I used to

37:42

do with dynasty yeah and so I would

37:44

do I do like an eight week residency

37:46

I didn't even make money I just wanted

37:49

to like have a like have a place

37:51

to like a place because I'm civilized. Yeah.

37:53

and like that's where I sort of got

37:55

the hour back was like okay because I

37:58

was doing it my way I wasn't like

38:00

I still haven't like gone to the club

38:02

to do a small set I just like

38:04

I just it's not for me you know

38:07

well I do that for a very specific

38:09

reason yeah well you're like you're again you

38:11

you've done all the like you've done that

38:13

work you know well I mean that's why

38:16

I do it do it is it's like

38:18

keeping shape you know like I can go

38:20

out and do my hour and do my

38:22

hour and a half or a half or

38:25

whatever or whatever with my hour and a

38:27

half or whatever with my Yeah, do get

38:29

my reps in so when I do go

38:31

out to my people. I'm like I'm sharp

38:34

It's funny. I think I feel the opposite

38:36

I'm like let me go mess around with

38:38

my people and then I'll get it sharper

38:40

there for the general public. Like I will

38:43

sort of like, oh, I'll do all the

38:45

exploring here, and then I'll be like, oh,

38:47

that piece can work for the general public.

38:50

Let me take that. Yeah. And maybe not,

38:52

and that's why I have nine jobs. That's

38:54

why I have not put all my chips

38:56

on stand-up comedy. Yeah. It's weird to take,

38:59

and I recall this from, you know, the

39:01

first Trump administration, when you're doing general crowds.

39:03

to fucking plow through some of that stuff.

39:05

Well, I'm playing the next club, I'm playing,

39:08

like I'm doing mostly theaters, but about to

39:10

do like a regular weekend at a club

39:12

in San Diego, the Mike Drop Comedy Club.

39:14

I don't know what that is. Yeah, no,

39:17

I didn't know what it is either. Yeah.

39:19

But I was like. That's a regular club

39:21

with a Friday night second show and 10

39:23

o'clock and you know, it's San Diego. It's

39:26

just like, I'm gonna find out some things.

39:28

You're gonna do the hour? I'm gonna do

39:30

the, oh, maybe I'll do the 45 minutes.

39:32

Maybe, you know, maybe that's when I bust

39:35

out some of the old stuff. You guys

39:37

remember? Yeah, maybe they will. So I'm actually

39:39

more nervous about that than I was at

39:41

the Kennedy Center like because it's like that's

39:44

yeah, it's like the trenches Yeah, yeah, I

39:46

mean doing that like when I'm working on

39:48

an hour there's some markets I don't you

39:50

know do theaters in and there's a couple

39:53

markets that I shouldn't be now But but

39:55

I'm doing it, but um, but I'd go

39:57

do all the clubs and that kind of

39:59

two shows Friday two shows Saturday show Thursday,

40:02

you know that second show Saturday, where you

40:04

get kind of kind of like yeah you

40:06

get loose and a little weird yeah but

40:08

there's still a thrill to that no I

40:11

think I you know I came up in

40:13

that world but I think I know I

40:15

wouldn't have been able to build up I

40:17

wouldn't have been able to if I was

40:20

just going out and doing showcases I couldn't

40:22

build the hour I couldn't build the hour

40:24

yeah because you can't do it in pieces

40:26

now you can't sort of like I know

40:29

I'm lost to find out where I'm trying

40:31

to find out where I'm trying to older,

40:33

you're basically, you're running the same circles, you

40:35

know, in terms of your thought. You're kind

40:38

of restating things you've said before with today's

40:40

spin. Yeah, well that's the great thing about

40:42

having taken such a break is that I

40:45

have a lot of stories that have happened

40:47

in the last five years. So I don't

40:49

feel like I'm like scraping the barrel. I'm

40:51

like, no, there's a lot with three kids.

40:54

You're, you know, how old's the oldest? I

40:56

was just getting started, the good bits are

40:58

on their way. Sure, yeah, it's all gonna

41:00

happen. Who was this guy? Yeah, yeah, exactly.

41:03

Get your angle on that? I got to

41:05

tell her when she was 12, she told

41:07

me something of one of the boys in

41:09

her class that was stupid, and I was

41:12

one of the boys in her class doing

41:14

that was stupid. And I was like, hey,

41:16

from the ages of 12 to 1, boys

41:18

are just trash. Yeah. But like, what the,

41:21

I mean, who the fuck is the Kennedy

41:23

Center going to book? How many times could

41:25

they book Tim Allen and Kid Rock? That's

41:27

the question. And the people who work there.

41:30

Or does he even care if it stands

41:32

empty? Well, no, they, no, they definitely believe.

41:34

I know from people who are there who's,

41:36

that they have been called to by the

41:39

people who are running it, like they want

41:41

more Christian acts and more country acts. Right.

41:43

You know, if you want to move the

41:45

Kennedy Center to Branson, Missouri, you can do

41:48

that. But you're not, but DC is a

41:50

place where there are more dragged queens, but

41:52

we're probably going to perform there in a

41:54

year than country music acts, you know. And

41:57

now that they don't do country music. Yeah,

41:59

you know. Yeah, they're Christian acts. It's interesting.

42:01

I guess people have been telling me there's

42:03

these rock stations that fool you. Like it's

42:06

very like, like, not just a girl. Not

42:08

a girl at all. Not a girl at

42:10

all. It's the big, it's the big you,

42:12

it's the capital Y. Yeah, yeah, the vow

42:15

you. Vow. Vow. The vow. The holy vow.

42:17

But yeah, like Rian and Giddens canceled, and

42:19

I get it, like if you're, I think

42:21

a comic is in a unique position where

42:24

you can speak directly to what's going on.

42:26

Yeah. Where if you're a musician, you can,

42:28

but it's not really what you do. And

42:30

especially if you're a comic like us, you

42:33

can literally go, I'm just going to talk

42:35

and we'll get to the jokes later. And

42:37

so I think that I was in a

42:40

unique position, but people want to put you

42:42

on one side of the other. And I'm

42:44

like, no, I'm old enough to remember and

42:46

to have learned. The civil rights movement, sometimes

42:49

it was about boycotts and sometimes it was

42:51

about sit-ins, and sometimes it was about spontaneous

42:53

action. It's not just one thing. civil disobedience

42:55

and protest, but like, I'm having a hard

42:58

time sort of fathoming how we can have

43:00

an impact on this jug or not, other

43:02

than state politics and, you know, working class

43:04

people who are fed up. Well, I think

43:07

one way, first of all. Every time I

43:09

see a group of white, old white people

43:11

yelling at their congressmen at the time I'm

43:13

eating... That's the only ones who are left

43:16

to do it. Because they grew up with

43:18

that. Of course. Because they're the last ones

43:20

to believe... They're the ones who always think

43:22

the systems on their side, even though there's

43:25

evidence to show them that the... But they're

43:27

also the ones that were at the old

43:29

protest. And at the January 6th. But I

43:31

think that those people are so clearly angry

43:34

this early this early about what's going on,

43:36

is a sign of like... a sign that

43:38

things could get better, but we need to

43:40

like invite those people in and not freeze

43:43

them out because... Are you talking about conservatives?

43:45

Yeah, I'm talking about conservative. I'm talking about

43:47

regular white folks. Okay, regular white folks. Because

43:49

that's regular white folks. That's why you're talking

43:52

about the old hippies that show up. No,

43:54

no, no, no, no. They're going to show

43:56

up. I'm talking about regular white folks. Okay.

43:58

Because that's how you're talking about... the grievance

44:01

buzz and assume that you know he was

44:03

talking shit yeah or assume that the the

44:05

shit he was talking didn't have an impact

44:07

on that well I think everybody has a

44:10

thing about like you're not talking about me

44:12

if you're saying something bad you're not talking

44:14

about me you're not talking about me if

44:16

you're saying something bad you're not talking about

44:19

me and I think that's what it was

44:21

and now they realize no they were talking

44:23

he is coming after a woke social security

44:25

they will they will but they but also

44:28

they really don't care about the those those

44:30

white people know and those white people are

44:32

finding out so for me the fact that

44:35

those people have turned so early is a

44:37

good sign well yeah and also they don't

44:39

care if they die no for sure and

44:41

there's gonna come a point which we're gonna

44:44

have a number to point you that's like

44:46

this many people died because of this thing

44:48

that they did like so if they if

44:50

they screw up somebody's Social Security if there's

44:53

people who will miss one check and die

44:55

you know what I mean there's already people

44:57

dying you know all around the world yeah

44:59

because of the denial of aid. I mean,

45:02

how is it not going to happen here

45:04

through Medicare, Social Security, you know, government funding,

45:06

as farm subsidies? I mean, people are going

45:08

to fucking die. Yeah. So I just think

45:11

that like those, the more we have people

45:13

like these white magga people who realize and

45:15

they're getting screwed over, Trump or start to

45:17

see that like, wait, like you've seen this

45:20

happen. Wait, Elon can do a Nazi salute,

45:22

but if I do it, I get fired.

45:24

Like, the more you start to learn, you're

45:26

not like them. They're not like you. And

45:29

they're not gonna help you get your job

45:31

back when you get fired for trying to

45:33

be like them. Oh, I got a good

45:35

joke on that. I think you'll like it.

45:38

I just, I put my, put my hand

45:40

up with the hell Hitler and I go,

45:42

this is right wing virtue signaling. It's exactly

45:44

what it is. It's exactly what it is.

45:47

It's exactly what it is. It's exactly what

45:49

it is. Steve Bannon did it. You could

45:51

tell he just did it because he's like,

45:53

I guess he's going to throw one in.

45:56

Yeah, I don't really feel great about it,

45:58

but I'm trying to get daddy's attention. I'm

46:00

half responsible. I was trying to get back

46:02

in. He'll get back in. I think, don't

46:05

you? I mean, I think Trump goes through

46:07

people. Yeah. What is your personal level of

46:09

fear on a day-to-day basis? So I'm super

46:11

happy that I live in Oakland like I

46:14

just want to be clear about that like

46:16

and talking to my kids the night that

46:18

Trump won There was a whole talk about

46:21

like well we while this is bad for

46:23

the country We are fortunate that we both

46:25

live in we live in California We live

46:27

in the Bay Area and we live in

46:30

Oakland. It feels like it just gets more

46:32

and more protected as we get there So

46:34

what's Oakland like now? I mean, Oakland, like,

46:36

every city is going through it, but it's,

46:39

it has been really used as a way

46:41

that, like, the doom loop stuff out of

46:43

San Francisco has been, sort of the idea

46:45

that, like, the city is falling apart. It

46:48

is definitely going through it, but it is

46:50

not, it is a, the doom loop, the

46:52

doom loop, the doom loop is essentially. Just

46:54

the idea that, like, there is no, the

46:57

vacuum of tech money, like, like, people left

46:59

the Bay Area. after the pandemic, but the

47:01

housing prices didn't come down. Yeah, and there's

47:03

a lot of empty real estate. And there's

47:06

a ton of homeless people. Like it just

47:08

every, you know, like there's a ton of

47:10

encampments all over the city. Right. So it's

47:12

like you can see the poverty in a

47:15

way that like people who grew up in

47:17

Oakland a whole lives are like, yeah, it

47:19

was, maybe it was more violent when I

47:21

was a kid, but it wasn't this desperate.

47:24

It's almost like the tenderloin spread, like cancer.

47:26

Yeah, yeah, so throughout the whole city. It's

47:28

definitely going through some transitions, but it's still

47:30

a great place for me to raise my

47:33

family. I wouldn't go anywhere else. Yeah, and

47:35

do you get involved in city politics? Yeah,

47:37

actually just, I, in a way that like,

47:39

I'm, I was helping a group, I'm with

47:42

a group of activists and filmmakers, Boots Riley's

47:44

one of them, where we're trying to make.

47:46

How's that guy doing? He's doing exactly the

47:48

same. He's working, he's making a new TV

47:51

show, he's making, he's working, he's working, he's

47:53

making a great. but Boots is not, he

47:55

has new hats every now and I think,

47:57

but he's literally. Yeah, yeah, he's literally has

48:00

new hats, but he's never, I've never been

48:02

like, man, boots seems to be going through

48:04

a rough time. But it's like, our kids

48:06

both dance at the same dance place, so

48:09

we see each other. He's a hussler. He's

48:11

a absolute hustler. And so yeah, we're on

48:13

board of a group called Cinema. He invited

48:16

me to you on the board of local

48:18

artists who are like trying to figure out

48:20

to figure out how to make Oakland and

48:22

more. livable place for artists and filmmakers. And

48:25

so yeah, so I had to work with

48:27

some people in the city to get Oakland

48:29

to pass the same sort of tax

48:31

incentives that you get in like Toronto

48:33

so that it's affordable to film in

48:35

Oakland. Oh really? Yeah, so we got

48:38

them past, it's just the city's too

48:40

broke to really do anything with it. But

48:42

yes, for the first time in my life,

48:44

I've actually done the kind of organizing I

48:47

always wasn't doing. Like, like, like, let's go

48:49

to... solve the crime problem, but if we

48:51

could get Hollywood, if we could make it

48:53

easier for people to film here, that's jobs.

48:56

So it's like, and it also gives people

48:58

who live here a way to stay. Yeah.

49:00

Yeah. And what about just like in terms

49:03

of your being the fear level, in terms

49:05

of going out on the road or any

49:07

of that shit? I mean, there is definitely

49:09

like, like the before even Trump dropped

49:12

out of the, before he even took

49:14

over the Kennedy Center, they called me

49:16

at one point and we're like, we're

49:18

going to hire security. And I know whenever

49:20

I get that call that like something

49:22

has happened. You know, so I know that

49:24

like we live at a time where a guy

49:27

like me who's out here calling Nazis Nazis. It

49:29

just has to be more aware of what I'm

49:31

doing. You know what I mean? And so I

49:33

am aware. Luckily, like I said, because I live

49:35

in Oakland, I feel like the city's got my

49:38

back. But like, you know. I don't travel with a

49:40

team of people, you know what I mean? So, which

49:42

in some sense I think it's helped because people don't

49:44

expect me to be walking around places, but like, yeah,

49:46

it's definitely a thing where I'm aware that like, you

49:48

know, me and my wife talk all the time about

49:51

like, sometimes I'll say things and she'll see the internet

49:53

get upset and like this Kennedy Center thing and it's

49:55

like, hoo! Like there's a sense of like, this could

49:57

come home to us, you know what I mean I

49:59

mean? And we've gotten a hate mail, not in

50:01

a while, not in a while, but there's times

50:03

we've gotten hate mail and stuff. And so it's

50:06

just a thing. When you were on CNN? Yeah,

50:08

when I was on CNN. Yeah, because I was

50:10

just lumped in with the whole crew. So yeah. So,

50:12

you know, I'm aware that like, I could turn down the

50:14

volume on some things just to make things

50:16

easier myself, but I just don't have it

50:18

in me to. I wouldn't know how to, I

50:20

wouldn't know what I would be doing other.

50:23

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I get nervous and scared

50:25

because of that, that once you walk out

50:27

of the venue, you're kind of on your

50:29

own. Yeah, yeah, after the show, you sort

50:31

of like, and the thing that I also

50:33

have is like, I can feel like, there's

50:35

a lot of, especially because a lot of

50:37

security people are black often, and they will

50:39

be like. They will take extra care. I

50:41

feel like I'm getting extra care because they

50:43

know what I'm going through when I'm out

50:45

there doing, you know? Yeah, yeah. So it's

50:48

like, it's a thing sometimes I can feel

50:50

people like, no, no, no, no, like really

50:52

like watching out for me in ways just

50:54

to... Oh, that's good. Yeah, no, I... Who

50:57

knew that I would be considering, I'm also

50:59

in my, as a gray-haired 52-year-old man, I'm

51:01

in my unky years, so people see me

51:03

as like the old guy who like, we

51:06

gotta take, we gotta protect him, you know

51:08

what I mean? So yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

51:10

he's a pillar of the community.

51:12

Yeah, I'm a pillar of the

51:14

community though, yeah, I was, I

51:16

always said funny, I mean, I

51:19

got three kids and. We, you know,

51:21

we did a doc that they

51:23

were in and, you know, I've

51:25

talked about a lot about, is

51:27

this, should we do this? And

51:29

it's just, you know, it's a

51:31

constant negotiation of like, what should

51:33

I be doing? How much should

51:35

we be doing? How much should

51:37

we be doing? How much I

51:39

be putting them out there? You

51:41

know, there's a constant negotiation about

51:43

what my, how to move through the world.

51:46

No. No. Like I wouldn't, I, for, yeah,

51:49

I wouldn't, I wouldn't, I don't mean

51:51

to be like, that's how I was

51:53

raised, but I just, the career that

51:55

I've chosen is, is it, there's not a,

51:57

just worry about my life versus. of

52:00

this, like the way that I've chosen to

52:02

do my career, you know, I could have,

52:04

it would have been much easier on me

52:06

as a human to not make a four-hour

52:09

documentary about Bill Cosby. It would have been

52:11

much easier. What was the pushback on that?

52:13

I mean, a lot of, I knew going

52:16

in, a lot of black people, like I

52:18

will run into black people on the streets,

52:20

like black dudes especially who were around my

52:22

age who were like, like, brother I liked

52:25

everything you did, I want to read me

52:27

the riot act about that thing. Oh, well,

52:29

why did you have to throw him under

52:31

the bus? Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, wait,

52:34

what about that dude? You know that guy

52:36

who did the OJ doc? Oh, yeah, Ezra?

52:38

He's good. Yeah, he's great. Yeah, he's good.

52:40

Yeah, he's great. Yeah, he's great. Yeah, he's

52:43

great. Yeah, he's great. Yeah, he's great. Yeah,

52:45

he's great. Yeah, he's great. Yeah, he must

52:47

have, he must have, he must have taken,

52:50

he must have taken, he must have taken,

52:52

he must have taken, he must have taken,

52:54

he must have taken, he must have taken

52:56

a work, he's a work, he's, he's a

52:59

work, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's,

53:01

he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's,

53:03

he Because the Prince people don't like it.

53:05

Oh really? It's nine hours. It's a Netflix

53:08

nine hour doc about prints. And in classic

53:10

Ezra Fashion, it was supposed to be like

53:12

a five hour doc and he made a

53:14

nine hour doc. Yeah. And they don't like

53:17

all the things he went into. So it's

53:19

apparently not going to see the light of

53:21

day. Wow. Yeah. Nothing he can do. Not

53:23

willing to change it. I think he could

53:26

do a lot. He could cut it down

53:28

to what they want. He could cut it

53:30

down to what they want. I understood it.

53:33

I mean, like I said, as a, as

53:35

a, as a dude who grew up in

53:37

that era, I know what people are, it's

53:39

vestment in Cosby, and I know that, like,

53:42

I get the black perspective of, like, we

53:44

have to stick together. Yeah. Like, I get

53:46

it, but it's also like, but not if

53:48

one of us is hurting us, you know,

53:51

so. I didn't, it wasn't surprising. And I

53:53

sort of imagined all the worst things that

53:55

could happen. Like, I think it was some

53:57

great things about being a comedian as having

54:00

an active imagination. So I knew somebody's gonna

54:02

put out a thing that we need to

54:04

talk about, W. Kamal Bell, because that was,

54:07

we need to talk about Cosby. And that

54:09

happened on YouTube. Somebody put out a we

54:11

need to talk about W. Kamal Bell. And

54:13

I saw all the black comedy things that

54:16

I watched on YouTube watching about black comedy.

54:18

They, they, they, they, they, they, they, they,

54:20

they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they,

54:22

they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they,

54:25

they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they,

54:27

they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they,

54:29

they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they,

54:31

they, they, they, they, they, they, they, I

54:34

was like, oh yeah, this is. For that

54:36

reason, what do you got to hit one

54:38

of our own for? Yeah, yeah, or, you

54:40

know, the white man sets you up, blah,

54:43

blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, you know, so.

54:45

But one of the great things about being

54:47

older is like, I stand by the work,

54:50

I know it's good, and unless you help

54:52

me raise my kids, I don't really give

54:54

a shit. Like I just don't, I don't

54:56

have, I used to really care about other

54:59

things. Is that weird to develop that callus?

55:01

Yeah, like I just don't have time. Every

55:03

year to develop that callus. Yeah, like I

55:05

just don't have time to, every day. Yeah,

55:08

like I just don't have, every once. Yeah.

55:10

Yeah, like. Like I don't have, like, like,

55:12

like, like, like, like, I don't have, like,

55:14

like, I don't have, like, I don't have,

55:17

like, I don't have, like, I just don't

55:19

have, like, like, like, I just don't, like,

55:21

like, like, I just don't, like, I just

55:24

don't, like, I just don't, like, I just

55:26

don't, I just don't, like, And you know

55:28

there's still over time it's been a net

55:30

plus because I think more people are happy

55:33

that we had the conversation also with like

55:35

Did he going down? It's just very clear

55:37

that show is is ugly and we need

55:39

to get rid of the ugly parts. Yeah.

55:42

And what do you make of the black

55:44

magga? I think the tales of the black

55:46

magga are highly exaggerating. I think there's way

55:48

more talk about them than there actually is

55:51

them, you know. So I don't... They get

55:53

one guy who's out of his mind anyway.

55:55

Yeah, and those guys don't last... And those

55:57

guys don't last very long. So yeah, and

56:00

those guys don't last very long. So yeah,

56:02

I think that like still black men voted

56:04

for Kamla Harrison, like, it's like 87 or

56:07

something. Yeah. Which is way higher than white

56:09

women on black people somehow. And it's a

56:11

good way to shame black people. Or is

56:13

it blame or is it like, look, we

56:16

got some? Well, no, they also, they need

56:18

to have some. Yeah. They need to have,

56:20

they need to have that guy. The black

56:22

friend. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was on Instagram

56:25

and this guy came after me talking about

56:27

something I said and I realized he was

56:29

the black gay guy. who was at a

56:31

magga event and got kicked out and called

56:34

at the n-word. And he was a Maga

56:36

guy at a Maga event and they bullied

56:38

him out of the event. And he still

56:41

in Maga guy. And I'm like, aren't you

56:43

that guy who got? He's like, yeah. All

56:45

right, man, take care. He's like, we don't

56:47

need to debate anything. You've shown me who

56:50

you are. Yeah, then it's a pathology. beyond

56:52

politics. No, no, it's definitely about like something

56:54

with your family. Yeah, there's something broken. And

56:56

I'm not gonna be mad at you, but

56:59

I'm not gonna, you know, I'm well beyond

57:01

like debate me, bro, like I'm not gonna

57:03

debate you on the. That's another line I

57:05

do on stage now. So look, I know,

57:08

you know, look, you're my audience, we're all

57:10

broken, but we broke left. Yeah, so I

57:12

don't, you know, I think black... Black Maga's

57:15

a convenient way to not really attract the

57:17

problem of like, it's actually white people. It's

57:19

just white people. But also when it comes

57:21

right down to a black or white, you

57:24

realize that a lot of these guys are

57:26

in it for the money, man. You know

57:28

what I mean? It's like, you know, like

57:30

I'm above this shit. Yeah. You know, sure,

57:33

I'll play for these people. I'll play to

57:35

them. I'll play of them. That's the questionable.

57:37

That's the questionable. That's the questionable one. But

57:39

that. No, I'm not a year or two.

57:42

But does any grift? No, some griffs. I

57:44

mean, I guess, yeah, the supplement griffs. There's

57:46

some griffs that are like, you know, like,

57:48

uh, eternal. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The eternal griff.

57:51

The New Testament. I say the white grifters

57:53

get a longer grift window. That's all I

57:55

would say. Like, you know, Bill O'Reilly got

57:58

a real long grift window. Glenn back, but

58:00

the black grifters generally don't get that long

58:02

of window. They don't get the, they don't

58:04

get, they don't get ten years of grift.

58:07

It's interesting about the grip because like I

58:09

think at the core of it is that

58:11

they don't give a fuck. No. About people,

58:13

about anything but their ability to stay in

58:16

that zone of wealth and privilege. Yeah, and

58:18

you got to fake it to you make

58:20

it. There's a lot of like, if I

58:22

pretend I'm on this side, I will somehow,

58:25

my net worth will come up to be

58:27

on this side. And I think there's, and

58:29

I think they rely on the fact that

58:32

most people, the people who pay close attention

58:34

politics are a small percentage of people. Yeah.

58:36

So you don't actually have to have facts

58:38

and figures to convince anybody. Yeah. You've got

58:41

to have vibes. Yeah. So like I think

58:43

they just rely on the fact. So much

58:45

the MAGA movement is tied into manhood and

58:47

masculinity and the Andrew Tate thing and so

58:50

it's like it's all tied into like being

58:52

a man and being a provider and it's

58:54

like and so it's not even tied into

58:56

politics. Yeah but it's also about exploiting the

58:59

sort of fundamentally male frustration. of a lot

59:01

of young guys that have no game and

59:03

you know whatever they're aspiring to is mostly

59:05

just you know fuck you I'm gonna make

59:08

you pay for this yeah but these guys

59:10

have no game and I speaking as a

59:12

person who did not have a lot of

59:15

game you you're de gaming yourself well I

59:17

didn't have a lot of game but with

59:19

a certain part of the of the culture

59:21

I had some game. Yeah, no, for sure.

59:24

I wouldn't say it was a game applicable

59:26

to any situation. It wasn't a broad game.

59:28

It wasn't soccer, it was highline. Yeah, exactly.

59:30

It was a very specific game. Very specific

59:33

game. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, my game

59:35

didn't travel well. So yeah, I just think

59:37

that like you have like, you know, like

59:39

there's been all, like, like, Andrew Tate is

59:42

the greatest example of this, like, like, like,

59:44

like, like, like, like, like, And you're telling

59:46

guys, if you pay me $1,000 a month,

59:49

you will just, that will help you be

59:51

more like me. But really all I want

59:53

is thousands of dollars a month. And there's

59:55

no being like me because I'm not real.

59:58

I asked somebody about an audience for Jordan

1:00:00

Peterson. Oh yeah. And they said it was

1:00:02

the weirdest audience ever saw it. They characterized

1:00:04

it as being like nerdy guys with clearly

1:00:07

escorts. I'm like, yeah. When you see the

1:00:09

distance between the two people, it's like, this

1:00:11

is somebody's, this is a credit card exchange.

1:00:13

You're going to get a receipt at the

1:00:16

end of the evening. That's right. Yeah, yeah.

1:00:18

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So what are you telling

1:00:20

your kids the ones that can understand? Well,

1:00:22

no, at 13, 10, and 6, they all

1:00:25

can understand on some level. What are the

1:00:27

principles that you're in viewing? We both did

1:00:29

a lot of church and mass and stuff,

1:00:32

but our kids don't do that. We just

1:00:34

didn't do that with them, because my wife

1:00:36

didn't feel like we have to take them

1:00:38

to Catholic Mass, because she was a sensitive,

1:00:41

thoughtful person. So- And that's like, it's scary.

1:00:43

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But like, we, certainly, one

1:00:45

of the big things we talk about is

1:00:47

just gratitude, because I think my kids get

1:00:50

to see and do a lot of things

1:00:52

that they use my- celebrity status to get

1:00:54

us into Universal Studios, like you know, just

1:00:56

because it was like, just because, and so,

1:00:59

but then at the end of the day,

1:01:01

like, this was a great thing we did,

1:01:03

we got these people are nice, don't, don't

1:01:06

walk around like a jerk because you got

1:01:08

to go to Universal Studios. Right. And so

1:01:10

for me, gratitude is a big part of

1:01:12

it. And also that we talk about it,

1:01:15

literally, it's our family job to try to

1:01:17

make the world a better place. Like, you

1:01:19

know, that's because we have... Is there a

1:01:21

checklist? Yeah, it starts with cleaning your room.

1:01:24

It starts with like, it starts with like...

1:01:26

Making your bed. Yeah, yeah, not that I'm

1:01:28

even great. But it does start with like,

1:01:30

like doing well in your world and like,

1:01:33

you know, one of the best things as

1:01:35

a dad you can see is when your

1:01:37

kid helps somebody out in the world without

1:01:40

you saying anything to them. Like, so for

1:01:42

me, it's like seeing my kids do that.

1:01:44

Sammy like you know, you know, you know,

1:01:46

I got mixed race kids. So I feel

1:01:49

like some stuff I can't like let go

1:01:51

on said. So I was like, look, if

1:01:53

you see a black one of the street,

1:01:55

you smile at her. Doesn't matter if you

1:01:58

know her or not? You smile at her,

1:02:00

you nodded her, you nodded her, because she's

1:02:02

gonna see you and she wants to know

1:02:04

that you see her back. Yeah, oh interesting.

1:02:07

You say hello, you nod, you call a

1:02:09

ma'am? Yeah. You know, like so to be

1:02:11

like, this is a part of this is

1:02:13

a part of what this is a part

1:02:16

of what this is a part of what

1:02:18

it is a part of what it is

1:02:20

a part of what it is a part

1:02:23

of what it is a part of what

1:02:25

it is a part of what it is

1:02:27

a part of what it is a part

1:02:29

of what it is a part of what

1:02:32

it is a part of what it is

1:02:34

a part of what it is a part

1:02:36

of what it is a part of what

1:02:38

it is a part of in our community.

1:02:41

Yeah. You know, so like we went to

1:02:43

Alabama last year and then been in Alabama

1:02:45

in years because of COVID. And I was

1:02:47

like, look, every black woman you meet is

1:02:50

going to think that you're, they're going to

1:02:52

think they've known you said you're a baby

1:02:54

and you've never met him before. And you

1:02:57

just got to like understand they're going to

1:02:59

hug you and kiss you. Like you, this

1:03:01

is what it is. I can't, I can't

1:03:03

let things go unsaid that I might if

1:03:06

they were black kids, if they were black

1:03:08

kids growing up. in a black neighborhood. Right.

1:03:10

Oh, so do you have family in Alabama?

1:03:12

My dad lives in Mobile Alabama. Really? Yeah.

1:03:15

Forever? Yeah, born and raised there. Has lived

1:03:17

other places, but he really likes being a

1:03:19

big fish in a small town. Like he

1:03:21

really likes being a big fish in a

1:03:24

small town. Like he really likes being a

1:03:26

big fish in a small town. What kind

1:03:28

of fish is he? He was an insurance

1:03:30

commissioner for the state of Alabama at one

1:03:33

point. So he's like a guy that people.

1:03:35

There you go. Yeah, so he's so only

1:03:37

in the last 10 years have I caught

1:03:40

him in that town like now people say

1:03:42

oh I saw your son like now he's

1:03:44

my dad but for years I was his

1:03:46

son. Oh yeah oh wow yeah so you're

1:03:49

kind of like you got an extended family

1:03:51

of people who know who you are there

1:03:53

oh yeah for kind of like you got

1:03:55

an extended family of people who know who

1:03:58

you are there oh yeah for sure Yeah,

1:04:00

it's good to see you again too. How

1:04:02

are they all holding up down there? I

1:04:04

mean Alabama is such a funny place because

1:04:07

they're just, they're not, they don't expect much

1:04:09

because it's Alabama. Well, that's an interesting idea

1:04:11

in terms of, you know, what is scary

1:04:14

in terms of community. Yeah, right? Yeah, I

1:04:16

imagine like, because like, you know, panicky white

1:04:18

liberals are different than, you know, dug in

1:04:20

black communities in Alabama. always hates us. So

1:04:23

like it's not like it's not new for

1:04:25

the governor. It's like occasionally get a nicer

1:04:27

Republican governor. Right now they have a bad

1:04:29

one. Yeah. Okay Ivy. Yeah. Who they call

1:04:32

me maw. But yeah like the governor always

1:04:34

is against us. They're always taking from us.

1:04:36

Yeah. So we're always taking from us. Yeah.

1:04:38

So we're always taking from us. Yeah. So

1:04:41

we have to get along with with maga

1:04:43

people. Right, but in some ways, not to

1:04:45

be stereotyping. but that dynamic has been there

1:04:47

forever in one form or another. In the

1:04:50

South, for sure, for sure. And I'm not

1:04:52

even sure that the people that they're dealing

1:04:54

with, however you want to label them, are

1:04:57

fundamentally any more racist. No, it's just a

1:04:59

different style. Yeah, it's just like a different

1:05:01

hat. I always say it's like every place

1:05:03

in America is racist. It's just you gotta,

1:05:06

if you're lucky, you get to live in

1:05:08

the place where you, where you fit with

1:05:10

the style of racism. If you're, you get

1:05:12

to pick. Like I couldn't do Boston racism.

1:05:15

I couldn't do Boston racism. I know because

1:05:17

you can live in another part of the

1:05:19

city. Yeah. You don't even know where they

1:05:21

live? I, you know, in Alabama, I like

1:05:24

to go down. I love going to Alabama

1:05:26

and feeling comfortable down there, but I wouldn't

1:05:28

live down there. Isn't that fucking interesting though

1:05:31

that? that in what are staring at, typically

1:05:33

the more racist regions of the country, they're

1:05:35

much more integrated places. Yeah, because they had

1:05:37

to get along, because they were like, they

1:05:40

were working together on putting in air quotes.

1:05:42

They had to like, not everybody could go

1:05:44

to Chicago. You couldn't be so racist as

1:05:46

a white person that you didn't want to

1:05:49

talk to black people. You had to talk

1:05:51

to them, because you needed to tell them

1:05:53

what to do that day. Or fulfill their

1:05:55

order. you know, much more closeness weirdly in

1:05:58

the South. Yeah, yeah, yeah, New York City

1:06:00

where everybody goes into their apartment and looks

1:06:02

down. What was your experience in Boston? I

1:06:05

was, I lived in Boston when I was

1:06:07

a little kid. Oh, because I lived there

1:06:09

for years. Yeah, no, I, Boston was places

1:06:11

where I like, I can go, but it's

1:06:14

not, it's like a childhood memory of a

1:06:16

place. But it's funny, but like, like, I

1:06:18

live there enough that like people from like

1:06:20

people from Boston, like people from Boston, like,

1:06:23

like people from Boston, like, like, like, like,

1:06:25

like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

1:06:27

like, like, like, Matt and Ben Affleck, you

1:06:29

know. Oh yeah, yeah, sure. And they were

1:06:32

like, oh, you're a Boston guy, like sure.

1:06:34

Not that Boston. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So

1:06:36

wait, those Affleck guys can really turn on

1:06:38

the Boston. They sure can, they sure. They're

1:06:41

funny man. Yeah, no, it's a, it's, so

1:06:43

yeah, I, so, but I'm, but again, moving

1:06:45

around a lot as a kid, that's why

1:06:48

I think I sort of feel like I

1:06:50

understand this country in a way that a

1:06:52

lot of people don't, because I saw a

1:06:54

lot of it. Sure. Yeah. And are you

1:06:57

taking your kids out in the world? For

1:06:59

sure. Yeah, I just, I took them to

1:07:01

DC last summer. I took them to show

1:07:03

them all the things. He yeah, I think

1:07:06

he's I think he's gonna he's gonna I

1:07:08

think he's only gonna not fuck with things

1:07:10

if they don't come across his desk But

1:07:12

I absolutely think like the national the African-American

1:07:15

museum there is this incredible It's just this

1:07:17

incredible. Oh, I took my kids there and

1:07:19

it was like I saw it when it

1:07:22

first opened and I was like I got

1:07:24

to bring my kids here and I'm so

1:07:26

happy I waited because they all appreciated it

1:07:28

on different levels and we like they would

1:07:31

have stayed and now when I was a

1:07:33

kid I would have done it I didn't

1:07:35

like museums were different too but like yeah

1:07:37

so yeah I sort of wonder what happened

1:07:40

theoretically on a policy level he could closed

1:07:42

the whole place down because it's too woke.

1:07:44

Yeah, no for sure. He could just or

1:07:46

just make it harder to deal with like

1:07:49

we're gonna like, you know, change the hours

1:07:51

or we're gonna charge money because they're all

1:07:53

free, but they could just decide we're now

1:07:55

it's gonna be $50. How are they not

1:07:58

saying that is the capital of DEI? Well,

1:08:00

that's I know the guy who runs that

1:08:02

museum and I sort of want to reach

1:08:05

up like, hey man. What's the, how you

1:08:07

handle it? Do you need it? Do you

1:08:09

need me, do it for you? Leave me

1:08:11

to send out a tweet or whatever. Because

1:08:14

I just feel like, what the fuck was

1:08:16

their email? What's the email to that place?

1:08:18

Stop your, your DEI policy. We need more

1:08:20

white, we need more. Well, they'll just tell

1:08:23

the slavery story differently. They live together. You

1:08:25

know, they got slaves got free room and

1:08:27

board. You gotta do that as a bit.

1:08:29

They'll just change because the lower level now

1:08:32

is super depressing. Oh yeah. Yeah, just switch

1:08:34

it from the to make it the white

1:08:36

person's point. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. because my middle

1:08:39

kid is 10. And so she's at the

1:08:41

age now where I took her on the

1:08:43

road with me one time. I had a

1:08:45

gig in like at Colorado State University and

1:08:48

like, I think it was in Fort Collins.

1:08:50

And then I'd gig in Portland at a

1:08:52

podcast and I just took her with me

1:08:54

on the road. And it's like a 10

1:08:57

year old on the road with you. And

1:08:59

it was like a 10 year old on

1:09:01

the road with you. And it was just

1:09:03

like, it was really like. fun in a

1:09:06

way that is not fun if I go

1:09:08

by myself. But by the third night, she's

1:09:10

like, yeah, how come you do the same

1:09:13

thing? She gives notes. She does give notes.

1:09:15

Last night you said it funnier. She does

1:09:17

do that. She does do that. She does

1:09:19

do that. Which I actually appreciate. It's like,

1:09:22

well, thank you. You're right. I did say

1:09:24

it funnier last year. Well, thank you. You're

1:09:26

right. I did say. My kids have traveled

1:09:28

a lot, which is great, because I think,

1:09:31

again, it's just the benefit of... Out of

1:09:33

the country, too? A little bit, but not

1:09:35

as much as, you know, COVID hit pretty

1:09:37

early in their life. So... How do you

1:09:40

see the effect of it on them now?

1:09:42

So my six-year-old, I think, it's just very

1:09:44

clear that she was not socialized at the

1:09:46

age where her sister's work. Like when you

1:09:49

go to her first grade class, it's just

1:09:51

a little bit chaos and it's not the

1:09:53

teacher's fault, but it's a whole different kids

1:09:56

who at two years old weren't mixing up

1:09:58

with other kids. So I think that there's-

1:10:00

Oh, you can really see it, huh? You

1:10:02

can totally see it. You can totally see

1:10:05

it. You can totally see it. I have

1:10:07

all my like, all my friends who had

1:10:09

kids who were like making transitions, like, kids

1:10:11

who were going to middle school right when

1:10:14

COVID- Yeah. tweaked because their new level experience

1:10:16

wasn't the thing they thought it was going

1:10:18

to be. Well they didn't evolve into it.

1:10:20

They didn't, they didn't get to have the

1:10:23

like, they're, you know, preteen years. My goddaughter

1:10:25

who actually write about. in the book was

1:10:27

like going to college and had a whole

1:10:30

plan to go to DC and then couldn't

1:10:32

do all that stuff. So yeah, I think

1:10:34

there's a whole, we're gonna see the effects

1:10:36

on these kids forever. Well, I think it

1:10:39

had a profound effect on our politics too.

1:10:41

For sure. I mean, come on. You know,

1:10:43

like, you know, I mean, that's really where

1:10:45

the sides were divided, I think. Yeah, I

1:10:48

think that like that's when they really dug

1:10:50

it. It's so weird that you would think

1:10:52

Trump wasn't the president as much as they've

1:10:54

talked about as much as they've talked about

1:10:57

how how badly COVID was handled. You know,

1:10:59

that was you, right? Right. You know, you

1:11:01

did that. You know, the vaccine that you

1:11:03

hate, you developed, that was under your administration.

1:11:06

So, but yeah, that's when they really dug

1:11:08

it. Yeah. And I think that like, and

1:11:10

what. I don't know what the other... I

1:11:13

can't get it through my head. It's like,

1:11:15

I just don't see any other way to

1:11:17

spin it. Sure, okay, pharmaceutical companies make money,

1:11:19

but the idea was... you know people were

1:11:22

dying and this is what we got and

1:11:24

we're trying to you know maybe help people

1:11:26

not die of this yeah whether you would

1:11:28

or not is not the issue no it's

1:11:31

it's about the fact that like and also

1:11:33

we as a culture have been through that

1:11:35

not that we remember but we've been through

1:11:37

this before it's not like this is the

1:11:40

first time a pandemic is hit yeah but

1:11:42

because we don't know our history and we

1:11:44

don't trust the history books even if we

1:11:47

read them and because we we we we

1:11:49

love for some reason for some The coolest

1:11:51

thing to be is somebody who knows nothing

1:11:53

and asks questions. Look, I don't know anything,

1:11:56

but I still have questions. You know, so

1:11:58

I think that like that lead allowing that

1:12:00

person's voice to be as loud as the

1:12:02

expert's voice and that person's always gonna be

1:12:05

louder because the The problem is is I

1:12:07

don't know anything I have questions and then

1:12:09

someone goes well, I'll show you what's really

1:12:11

happening. And who the fuck knows? Well, I'll

1:12:14

show you what's really happening? And who the

1:12:16

fuck knows what's what? I'll show you what's

1:12:18

really happening? What's what's really happening? there's a

1:12:20

rise in people sort of. openly talking about

1:12:23

how they don't believe the earth is round.

1:12:25

Yeah. It's like, it's like, like people feel

1:12:27

more comfortable in talking about something like, well,

1:12:30

how would you know? Confidently stupid. Confidently stupid.

1:12:32

Yeah. And I think that like, because we

1:12:34

sort of allowed this, we turn free speech

1:12:36

into something that it's not, we feel as

1:12:39

a society, we feel like somehow it's limiting

1:12:41

somebody's free speech to say, stop saying things

1:12:43

that aren't true. Yeah, or that's wrong. pushback

1:12:45

because of this separate world. Yeah. You know,

1:12:48

so like, you know, they, their big argument

1:12:50

is like, I don't know. Well, that's the

1:12:52

thing. Even if, but if you put the

1:12:54

person, like I, like, you know, I, like,

1:12:57

you know, this flat Earth guy, Rogan had

1:12:59

some flat Earth guy on was like, told

1:13:01

Neil Grass Tyson, I want you to waste

1:13:04

my time, but somehow we, and then people

1:13:06

go, he's afraid. All right, well, I think

1:13:08

we're I think we're doomed. Yeah, he's he's

1:13:10

he's afraid to to engage with somebody who

1:13:13

will never believe what he has to say

1:13:15

even though it's based on empirical evidence. He's

1:13:17

afraid of wasting his time for no good

1:13:19

reason. Yeah, yeah. Afraid of like life is

1:13:22

only this long, and I know that guy.

1:13:24

Neil, yeah. Meno a couple times. He's not

1:13:26

like, he's not, he's not, he's not this

1:13:28

long, and I know that guy. Yeah. Meno,

1:13:31

men, men, men, men, a couple of very

1:13:33

small world. He's, I mean, I mean, you

1:13:35

know. with the hope of like eventually figuring

1:13:38

out Charleston. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

1:13:40

I got theater there. Yeah, the Charleston music

1:13:42

hall. Yeah, I'm doing that. Oh, yeah. Oh,

1:13:44

cool. I don't sell great there. We'll see.

1:13:47

I mean, it's very black, so I think

1:13:49

I should do okay. Oh, yeah. I mean,

1:13:51

it's very black, so I think I should

1:13:53

do okay. Oh, I didn't even know I

1:13:56

did. It was crazy. It was crazy. know

1:13:58

you're coming. I have a hook up there.

1:14:00

I have a guy. I don't know. I

1:14:02

don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

1:14:05

I don't have a lot of black fans.

1:14:07

Well that's, and you, and you, and you,

1:14:09

we'll work on that. I'm gonna, I'm gonna

1:14:11

actually invest some time into getting you some,

1:14:14

because you, you would do what with the

1:14:16

blacks? I think so. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

1:14:18

yeah, you keep, you keep, you keep it

1:14:21

real. Yeah, I definitely keep it real. I

1:14:23

think for some blacks, it's like, it's a

1:14:25

little too real. No, no, no, no, no,

1:14:27

no. But the blacks and Charleston, they're, I

1:14:30

went to, and you know. Asheville, that's not,

1:14:32

so, but I went to Nashville, that was

1:14:34

great. And the other places were great, I

1:14:36

think the most southern I did was Lexington.

1:14:39

And you know, it's again, even... You do

1:14:41

Atlanta though, right? Yeah, I do. Okay. But

1:14:43

no places in Florida, no... I don't go

1:14:45

for it. Okay. Fair enough. I just don't

1:14:48

go. Okay. I mean, I don't go to

1:14:50

Arkansas. You know, I haven't been Alabama in

1:14:52

a while. You know, I don't tour, I'm

1:14:55

not one of these guys that has to

1:14:57

hit all the states. Yeah, you're not trying

1:14:59

to hit all the markets. Yeah, and some

1:15:01

people will travel to see me. And it's

1:15:04

not because of I'm afraid or anything else.

1:15:06

I just don't want the stress of wondering

1:15:08

why I'm not selling tickets in mobile. No,

1:15:10

you'd rather book a bigger venue in Atlanta

1:15:13

and tell people in Alabama you better to

1:15:15

come up. Yeah, or Florida. And they're used

1:15:17

to that. They're used to that they're used

1:15:19

to that. matter what city you go to

1:15:22

for the most part if it's a bigger

1:15:24

town or city you know you got like-minded

1:15:26

people there yeah no it's like I did

1:15:28

Jackson Mississippi which I did years ago which

1:15:31

I was worried about it ended up being

1:15:33

like I became the meetup for every progressive

1:15:35

in the in the in the 500 mile

1:15:38

area it was like mostly about them meeting

1:15:40

up with each other like we'll watch Kamal

1:15:42

show but it was like it's a great

1:15:44

way to get people to come together on

1:15:47

stage I say I'm not an arena act.

1:15:49

I say I think I could do one

1:15:51

arena if it was centrally located and I

1:15:53

can bus people in. And I go, I

1:15:56

say buses leaving out of Whole Foods parking

1:15:58

lots is from Marin and these cities. Exactly,

1:16:00

yeah. We'll all go to one arena in

1:16:02

Nebraska. Exactly, it'll work out. But no, so

1:16:05

I'm doing that. I have this, my substack,

1:16:07

which is also called, who's with me. I've

1:16:09

spent a lot of time in there. I've

1:16:12

sort of turned away. Yeah, I've sort of

1:16:14

like. I sort of put half effort into

1:16:16

it last year and looked up, I was

1:16:18

like, wait, this is actually doing really well.

1:16:21

And so this year really like sort of

1:16:23

pushing it. So you're right every week? Every

1:16:25

week? You know, three times a week, three

1:16:27

times a month basically, but yeah, every week

1:16:30

and, and. I have somebody helped me with

1:16:32

it so it helps me like proof-free stuff.

1:16:34

I'm not saying the wrong thing. But yeah,

1:16:36

I actually love it a lot because it's

1:16:39

like a way to keep my brain working

1:16:41

and bits come out of it. Yeah, of

1:16:43

course. Yeah, my latest one I just was

1:16:45

like, how many different insults can I think

1:16:48

of for Steve Bannon? And it's just like,

1:16:50

how many different insults can I think of

1:16:52

for Steve Bannon? And it's like, you know,

1:16:55

like how many different insults can I think

1:16:57

of? sub stack. Let me, I know a

1:16:59

guy. I write my thing every week. All

1:17:01

you gotta do is put it on sub,

1:17:04

you don't have to change anything. You just

1:17:06

put it on sub stack. You don't have

1:17:08

to change anything. You just put it on

1:17:10

sub stack. You just put it on sub

1:17:13

stack. Just put it on sub stack. Just

1:17:15

put it on sub stack. Just put it

1:17:17

on sub stack. Just put it on sub

1:17:19

stack. Just put it on sub stack. Just

1:17:22

put it on, just put it on sub

1:17:24

stack. Just, just put it on, just, just,

1:17:26

just put it on, just, just put it

1:17:29

on, just, just put it on, just, just,

1:17:31

just, just, just, just, just, just, just put

1:17:33

it, just, just, just, just, just, just, just,

1:17:35

just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just,

1:17:38

just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just,

1:17:40

just, just, just, just, just, just, just Yeah.

1:17:42

You got to work on that bit about

1:17:44

the anti-war black history. I will, about the

1:17:47

new exhibits at the African-American Museum. Exactly. Yeah,

1:17:49

that's good. I'm glad to. I'm glad I

1:17:51

got a bit out of this. All right,

1:17:53

Clay. Good seeing you. Good seeing you. There

1:18:00

you go, Kamal Bell. Again, you

1:18:02

can find his tour dates at

1:18:04

W. kamalbell.com and he'll be in

1:18:06

San Diego at Mike Drop Comedy

1:18:09

this weekend. Hang out for a

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minute. Dining out is nice, but

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it can really break the bank.

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free dessert. One thing that's not

1:19:28

going to surprise you if you're

1:19:30

a regular listener, we love LA.

1:19:33

Why wouldn't we? It's been the

1:19:35

home of the show for 16

1:19:37

years and I've lived here for

1:19:39

longer than that. And when you

1:19:41

come to visit Los Angeles, no

1:19:43

matter how long you're here, you'll

1:19:45

be able to take in a

1:19:47

lot of stuff I love about

1:19:49

this place. Like there's the food.

1:19:51

There are seemingly endless options from

1:19:54

all sorts of cuisines and dining

1:19:56

styles. Yeah, you've got a gimme

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gim. records if you want some

1:20:00

records, or amoeba records, or permanent

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records. And of course there's no

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1:20:06

to the best entertainment. Get over

1:20:08

to Hollywood Boulevard and see a

1:20:10

star ceremony on the Walk of

1:20:12

Fame or come see me and

1:20:15

dozens of other comedians at the

1:20:17

comedy store, which has world-class comedy

1:20:19

every night. LA, it's like 10

1:20:21

cities in one. If you come

1:20:23

visit, I guarantee you'll love LA

1:20:25

as much as I do. Find

1:20:27

more ways to love LA at

1:20:29

discoverla.com. For more of

1:20:31

me and Kamow, he's been on five other

1:20:34

WTF episodes, some live ones, a couple short

1:20:36

ones, ones from very early on, but he

1:20:38

also came on three years ago to talk

1:20:40

about the documentary he made, we need to

1:20:43

talk about Cosby and go check that out

1:20:45

too. And I don't think that anybody in

1:20:47

one... sort of lump or one sort of

1:20:50

context has heard any of those survivors go

1:20:52

at length unless you were in the courtroom

1:20:54

or wherever those things were. Or you were

1:20:56

their lawyer. Yeah, a deposition of some kind.

1:20:59

Yeah. So and I thought to that the

1:21:01

the natural thing that natural humanization that happens.

1:21:03

When you can sit there and watch somebody

1:21:05

talk or tell a story and the nuances

1:21:08

of those things, I found that to be,

1:21:10

I don't even want to use the word

1:21:12

damning, but because this isn't a trial, but

1:21:15

it was sort of like, there's no reason

1:21:17

any of these women would make any of

1:21:19

this shit up. And especially, a lot of

1:21:21

this happened to them 30, 40 years ago,

1:21:24

like why would you still be riding on

1:21:26

a lie like this? The only reason they

1:21:28

thought they would talk about it now is

1:21:30

because they were like they believed in they'd

1:21:33

seen my work before and they're like well

1:21:35

if anybody can pull this thing off it's

1:21:37

you is what I would be like so

1:21:39

like they were like I'm gonna trust you

1:21:42

which is why even though I often wanted

1:21:44

to quit I was like I can't do

1:21:46

it because these women have trusted me. That's

1:21:49

me and Kamow on episode 1308 you can

1:21:51

listen to that for free on all podcast

1:21:53

apps to get every episode of WTF ad

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for Go to the link

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in the episode description

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and click on click on w-t-f-plus and a

1:22:05

a reminder before we go

1:22:07

this podcast is hosted by a

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by A-cast now let me dig up

1:22:11

some guitar for you from you

1:22:13

from the vault so

1:23:42

so Boomer

1:24:14

lives. Monkey.

1:24:17

Lefonda. Cat

1:24:19

angels everywhere.