0:00

You just heard Bill Burr on

0:02

this show a few weeks ago

0:04

and now you can watch him

0:07

in his natural habitat. The stand-up

0:09

stage. Bill is coming to Hulu

0:11

on March 14th with his hilarious

0:13

stand-up special Bill Burr. Drop dead

0:16

years. Get Bill's provocative and unfiltered

0:18

point of view on everything from

0:20

marriage and parenthood to dating advice

0:22

and yes, dropping dead. See the

0:25

new hilarious stand-up special Bill Burr.

0:27

Drop dead years streaming on Hulu

0:29

March 14th. All right, let's

0:31

do this. How are

0:33

you? What the fuckers?

0:35

What the fuck buddies?

0:37

What the fuck, Knicks?

0:39

What's happening? I'm Mark

0:42

Marin. This is my

0:44

podcast. Welcome to it.

0:47

It's one of the

0:49

originals. That's what I'm

0:52

told. I just watched

0:54

a documentary about

0:57

myself. Last night,

0:59

I'm in Austin, Texas. Hopefully

1:02

I'll be home, I guess it will

1:04

be today when you hear about

1:06

this. I've been on the road

1:08

for a week and that doesn't

1:10

sound like a lot, but every

1:12

day is at least two to

1:14

three days in road years when

1:17

you're out here and I'm ready

1:19

to get home. I get

1:21

a little isolated, a little

1:23

strangely lonely out here, but

1:26

here's what's going on. Let

1:28

me tell you what's going

1:30

on today, a couple of

1:32

things. My special taping has

1:34

been announced. I'll be doing

1:36

two shows at the Bam

1:38

Harvey Theater in Brooklyn on

1:41

Saturday, May 10th, 7 p.m.

1:43

and 9.m. There's a pre-sale

1:45

going on today from 10 a.m.

1:47

to 10 p.m. Eastern time.

1:49

Pre-sale code is all in, all

1:52

caps, one word. Tickets are

1:54

on sale to the general

1:56

public tomorrow Friday March 14th.

1:59

So first off Let's go into,

2:01

who's on the show today, because

2:03

this is an interesting episode of

2:05

WTO, because I talk to a

2:07

guy, he's not the kind of

2:09

guy he usually talked to. I

2:12

mean, he's, as a person he

2:14

is, but he's not in entertainment,

2:16

he's not in music, he's not

2:18

a writer, but he is a

2:20

guy, I would, what would you

2:23

call him, a craftsman, of clothing,

2:25

of accessories? He makes things he

2:27

wants to make out of brass

2:29

and out of fabric and out

2:31

of leather. His name is Michaelias

2:34

and he is the proprietor and

2:36

creator and designer for a place

2:38

called Ship John. That is up

2:40

in Portland Oregon. I've mentioned it

2:42

before because I wear his stuff

2:45

all the time. And it's not

2:47

because I have to. It just

2:49

fits me. and it suits me,

2:51

but he's got an interesting story.

2:53

This is sort of a Delray,

2:56

Dean, Delray, turn me on to

2:58

ship John years ago. Dean's kind

3:00

of a fashion plate. Dean is

3:02

a guy who's always a, of

3:04

a certain type. I mean, it's

3:07

not for everybody, but there's a

3:09

world that Dean exists in that

3:11

has to do with boots, watches.

3:13

jackets and eyeglass frames, I would

3:15

say are the primary things. Guitars

3:18

as well he knows about, he

3:20

knows about a lot of things,

3:22

t-shirts, but one time we were

3:24

up in Portland and he was

3:26

opening for me and he knew

3:29

this guy that had a little

3:31

workshop and a very small little

3:33

workshop store and he designed jackets.

3:35

I was kind of into the

3:37

jacket idea. It was a jacket

3:40

that Dean had, he did some

3:42

shirts, but I was already on

3:44

board with Filelson. from many years

3:46

ago, from probably 20, 25 years

3:48

ago. And this guy was in

3:50

the same zone as that. I

3:53

wouldn't call it work clothes. Some

3:55

of it is sort of work

3:57

oriented. But he made this jacket

3:59

called the Will's. And it's a

4:01

very specific and unique design and

4:04

it's fucking awesome. And oddly, Mike,

4:06

ship John himself, designed that

4:08

jacket 10 years ago. It's

4:10

the 10th anniversary of the Wills jacket

4:12

tomorrow. And a lot of you are

4:15

like, who cares? What is that? What

4:17

does that mean? It's some guy who

4:19

makes a jacket. Well, you know, to

4:21

all of us, no matter what we

4:24

do, when there are sort of markers

4:26

of our life, of our career, of

4:28

our... art or whatever it is, it's

4:30

a big deal. And this jacket is

4:32

sort of a big deal. And I'll

4:35

validate that. I will say it's a

4:37

big deal to me. I wear the

4:39

thing all the time. And it's a

4:41

unique thing. But ultimately, it

4:43

leads to a bigger conversation. He

4:46

also gave me an oiled tincloth

4:48

shirt that I wore on Colbert

4:50

that was way too hot. It

4:52

was really not that kind of

4:54

shirt. But since then, like, there's

4:57

a, I'm wearing Shipjohn stuff most

4:59

of the time, whether it's the

5:01

shirt or the jacket, occasionally

5:03

a hat. He just sent me the

5:06

Shipjohn version of a utility knife,

5:08

of a Stanley knife, which he

5:10

has an obsession with, which we'll

5:12

talk to. But the story is

5:14

interesting because he didn't set out

5:16

to do this. You know, he comes from

5:19

an oyster fisherman family in

5:21

New Jersey. And the story is great.

5:23

and he's a real like he had

5:25

to learn this craft not unlike anybody

5:28

who has to do something creative or

5:30

that they're possessed to do and the

5:32

arc of the story is pretty fucking

5:35

interesting and I deal with them all

5:37

the time we we exchange records we

5:39

you know we hang out when I'm in

5:41

Portland or he's down here and you

5:43

know there's a lot of stuff that

5:46

he's involved with like I've always been

5:48

a little I've always felt like a

5:50

little bit of a fraud when I

5:52

wear you know boots and jackets that

5:54

are sort of meant for you know

5:56

hard work which is sort of

5:59

why he created jackets, but there

6:01

is a look to it and it's

6:03

just something I've landed on. I'm not

6:05

going to feel too guilty about it

6:07

any more than I feel about my

6:10

personality in general in terms of being

6:12

a fraud. I mean it's a

6:14

tricky thing and after just seeing

6:16

that documentary, I've got some answers

6:19

about me and they're not the easiest

6:21

to sort of take. I'm sure I'm

6:23

not the only one who has a

6:25

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6:27

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7:38

self, who you think you are, who

7:40

you really are. Look, clothes have a

7:43

lot to do with that, haircuts have

7:45

a lot to do with that. But

7:47

that's sort of the same with

7:49

personality too. This is sort of a,

7:52

it was kind of a heavy few days

7:54

out here in Austin. Steve

7:56

Fine Arts premiered the documentary

7:58

about my life. and focusing

8:00

a lot on the loss of

8:02

Lynn Shelton to everybody that loved

8:05

her, including me, and sort of,

8:07

you know, who I am. And

8:09

I have ideas about who I

8:11

am, and sometimes those don't really

8:13

match up with reality. I would

8:16

say that's probably true most of

8:18

the time. And I kind of

8:20

talked about how my first viewing

8:22

of the doc was a... humbling

8:24

experience, but to see it again

8:27

was even more humbling and sad

8:29

and entertaining. I mean, I could

8:31

see it was funny in how

8:33

it would be funny in touching

8:35

to people, but to me, kind

8:38

of re-engaging with the grief and

8:40

re-engaging with what I was going

8:42

through and re-engaging with building a

8:44

comedy set. from that was heavy,

8:46

but I gotta be honest with

8:49

you, the stuff that had the

8:51

most impact on me, and I

8:53

imagine some people, certainly the newer

8:55

generations, have experienced with this, but

8:57

we didn't. I mean, I'm 61

9:00

years old, and there was a

9:02

period in time when I started

9:04

doing comedy in the 80s, where

9:06

there were VHS of me that

9:08

were existing. They existed, I had

9:11

them. I had not looked at

9:13

them in many years, and there

9:15

was stuff I shot at my

9:17

house with, you know, the family's

9:19

home video video camera. And that

9:22

to me was really oddly the

9:24

most disturbing stuff to watch in

9:26

a kind of, you know, cringy

9:28

way. You know, the emotional stuff

9:30

that I'd gone through in the

9:33

past four years or five years

9:35

was not. You know, I could

9:37

re-engage with that, but all the

9:39

early stuff of me trying to

9:41

figure out who I was on

9:44

stage and really trying to figure

9:46

out who I was as a

9:48

person. is a little tough to

9:50

watch because the truth is and

9:52

I speak to specific people who

9:55

are either self-aware of this or

9:57

suspected if you didn't grow up

9:59

in an emotionally grounded household that

10:01

was relatively healthy, where you were,

10:03

you know, enabled to kind of

10:05

complete yourself, you know, it's a

10:08

rough go. And you try on

10:10

a lot of personality pieces. You

10:12

try on a lot of jackets

10:14

and shirts and boots. You try

10:16

a lot of haircuts. You try

10:19

a lot of glasses frames. You

10:21

try a lot of music. You

10:23

read books about how to be

10:25

who you are. It's a very

10:27

specific type. I don't think it's

10:30

unusual in my audience. But it's

10:32

a real thing. So to see

10:34

myself. at different stages and age

10:36

but also at different stages and

10:38

trying to find a voice as

10:41

a comic it was a little

10:43

much and it really kind of

10:45

fucked with me while it was

10:47

watching the show because I'm watching

10:49

this whole thing and I'm like

10:52

you know I am I still

10:54

doing that am I have I

10:56

landed in me I mean I

10:58

would hope so and the truth

11:00

is I have and it's not

11:03

great It's not, you know, I

11:05

know your experience of me is

11:07

what it is and I give

11:09

you as much of myself as

11:11

I can, which is not nothing.

11:14

It's an awful lot. Seeing how

11:16

I am from an outside perspective

11:18

was really, it was kind of

11:20

daunting because many of you know

11:22

over the years of listening to

11:25

me, you know, my need to,

11:27

or propensity or compulsion to compare

11:29

myself to other comics, to think

11:31

that, you know, you know, why,

11:33

why am I not more popular

11:36

in a broader way? And the

11:38

thing is, I never really set

11:40

out to do that, and I

11:42

always was kind of against it.

11:44

So what was interesting about watching

11:47

this thing is I'm exactly... really

11:49

what I set out to be,

11:51

but there's always this other part

11:53

of you that judges your, it's

11:55

not even a grasses greener kind

11:58

of thing. It's more like... That

12:00

guy seems to have his shit

12:02

together on all levels. And look

12:04

at him presenting himself and being

12:06

broadly popular and making a fortune

12:09

and being good at what he

12:11

does. Why am I not that

12:13

guy? So that's not really a

12:15

grasses greener in the sort of

12:17

traditional sense. It's just sort of

12:19

like, why can I be a

12:22

whole person that seems to be

12:24

in control of their being?

12:26

Why? Why am I always falling horizontally?

12:28

Why is my brain on

12:30

fire all the time? Why am

12:33

I always catastrophizing and thinking the

12:35

worst of myself? Why? I

12:37

have answers to these questions. Some

12:39

of them that I've talked about on

12:42

this show. I have frameworks that

12:44

I've used over time psychological and

12:46

recovery stuff, but it's still kind

12:48

of, it kind of eats to

12:51

me, you know, like... You know,

12:53

what I think I'm for everybody

12:55

on some level, but the truth

12:57

is, is I'm not. So what was

12:59

kind of revelatory about

13:02

watching this documentary about me

13:04

is that, you know, I'm

13:07

turning into this, I wouldn't

13:09

say eccentric character, but a

13:12

character nonetheless, and I've

13:14

always noticed particularly

13:16

with presidents, you know, who start out

13:18

young and then get old, that there

13:20

is a turning point somewhere between 55

13:22

and 65 where they become their, you

13:24

know, the phase before the end form.

13:26

Not old old, but like, oh, this

13:28

is the beginning of old. I can

13:30

see it in their disposition, their hair,

13:32

the wrinkles on their face, and you

13:34

notice this with actors and everything else,

13:36

but it's sort of hard to notice

13:38

for yourself. But like I'm like you

13:41

know on the outside of middle age

13:43

here and I'm watching this movie and

13:45

some things haven't changed but some

13:47

things aren't going to change and

13:49

at a certain point some things

13:51

you know you're going to have to

13:53

just accept about who you are. It

13:55

is a whole package and it's been

13:57

sort of like that way for a while.

13:59

So I think the big lesson

14:02

for me was like, all right,

14:04

well, whatever I thought I was

14:06

going to be, and whatever on

14:08

occasion I still think I could

14:10

be or still think I should

14:12

be, is not relevant to

14:15

the fact that I am who I

14:17

am for better or for worse. And

14:19

that I think that getting to

14:21

that point sooner than later with

14:23

yourself. is probably a good thing

14:26

to kind of like give yourself

14:28

a break a little bit. The

14:30

fact is I'm doing exactly what

14:33

I've always wanted to do, and

14:35

I'm doing it exactly the way

14:37

I want to do it. And

14:39

so, and there is really no other

14:42

way. Yet that voice persists.

14:44

So removing that guy from

14:46

the equation means that

14:48

there's some radical self-acceptance

14:51

that has to happen. I guess it

14:53

happened. I think it happened because of

14:56

this doc. And it's such a

14:58

weird emotional documentary portrait of

15:00

me that when it was over, you kind

15:02

of get that feeling like, well, it's sad

15:05

this guy died. You know, when I had

15:07

to go up on stage, you know, with

15:09

Stephen, after the movie, I got up and

15:11

I'm like, this guy's still alive. There

15:13

was a moment where I'm like, I'm

15:15

like, I'm still alive. This is not

15:17

one of those docs where like,

15:19

God, I wish I wish I

15:21

I'm glad I've been introduced to

15:23

his work, but it's sad that

15:25

he's gone. I'm here and I'm

15:28

walking up to the stage right now.

15:30

So it was an exciting weekend,

15:32

and I was wearing a

15:34

Ship John shirt when I got

15:36

up on the stage because it

15:38

seems that the Ship John shirts

15:40

seem to fit the me who

15:42

I am currently and presently, and

15:45

it seems to be

15:47

pretty much all of me. And the

15:49

guy who designed that shirt is

15:51

on the show today. So it

15:53

is, as I said before, tomorrow,

15:56

March 14th is the 10th anniversary

15:58

of the ship John Will's... jacket

16:00

and Chip John is releasing a

16:02

special decade edition of the jacket

16:05

tomorrow. You can check it out

16:07

at Chipjohn. US. It might not

16:09

be easy to get one and

16:12

you might have to wait for

16:14

it. But let's get into the

16:16

life of Mike now. This is

16:19

me talking to Mike Elias in

16:21

the garage. This

16:28

is an outlier type of talk for

16:30

me. But the truth is, is that

16:32

I wear all your clothes. You got

16:34

a bunch of them. But I wear,

16:36

like, they're like in terms of on

16:39

stage. I've been wearing this tour, I

16:41

wear that shirt, but you got on,

16:43

but doesn't look like that. So you

16:45

did that on purpose? Well, I've been,

16:47

I've just been wearing this non-stop for

16:49

the last two and a half years.

16:51

And you wash it? And you wash

16:53

it out like that. Yeah, now what

16:55

is that fabric called? Sashiko Ori? It's

16:58

kind of the, if you look at

17:00

Japanese kendogies, it's the fabric they made

17:02

for that. Okay, so now an idea

17:04

like that. Now that's it, like a

17:06

fairly traditional Western cut shirt. Yeah. And

17:08

you get hip to this fabric. Yeah.

17:10

Bought it. Yeah. It was a small

17:12

company over there, off the shirt, and

17:15

then got back here and you could

17:17

only find a really thin version of

17:19

this. That's here, Made in America. The

17:21

fabric is not made in America. Right.

17:23

But the idea of the fabric is

17:25

supposed to be that fabric. But the

17:27

fabric that you found here was not

17:29

made in Japan either. It was made

17:31

in Thailand, I think. Some knock-off of

17:34

this and really accessible and you know.

17:36

that if you a lot of the

17:38

shirts you see made like this are

17:40

out of that kind of cheaper version

17:42

right but this one's heavy man it's

17:44

heavy and I once I set my

17:46

sights on kind of what I want

17:48

to make something else of that I

17:50

just need to do that. I can't

17:53

cut the corners and get the shitty

17:55

version. So for this vision of this

17:57

particular shirt, you've got to track down

17:59

a manufacturer in Japan. Yeah. And you

18:01

found a guy. Yeah, found a guy.

18:03

They still make it the traditional way.

18:05

What do you mean? Like they grind

18:07

the stuff to make the dye? And

18:09

then like I've watched like Instagram reels

18:12

of things that are either Chinese or

18:14

Japanese where they start with like rocks.

18:16

I mean, this starts with a plant,

18:18

it's indigo. However, I don't know the

18:20

exact process. They spin the yarn. Yeah,

18:22

it's like crazy to watch it. It

18:24

is insane. And, you know, this is

18:26

a machine made. It's not somebody hand-making

18:29

this fact. Okay, okay. Yeah. But it

18:31

is, it's a special version of it

18:33

in that, it's the thick actual. Yeah,

18:35

it's heavy, man. Like when I pack

18:37

that shirt, it takes up, you know,

18:39

a lot of room. Yeah, you gotta

18:41

make way for it in the suitcase.

18:43

Like I bring that shirt on the

18:45

road now, and I also perform in

18:48

the moleskin, that green moleskin Western Amy.

18:50

with the brass buttons. Those are the

18:52

two performing shirts for this tour. I'm

18:54

glad they're with you, but yeah, they're

18:56

the Ship John specials. And then I

18:58

got the Wills jacket and I guess

19:00

you just got my booking agent one,

19:02

Joe, he got one, Joe, Joe, he

19:04

got one, Joe, Joe, Joe, he got

19:07

one, Joe, Joe, Joe, he got one,

19:09

Joe, Joe, Joe, Joe, he just ordered

19:11

it, he just ordered it regular, to

19:13

fit him. Everything I've ever designed is

19:15

something that I see missing in the

19:17

world or existed but they don't make

19:19

everything I've ever designed is something that

19:21

I see Yeah, missing in the world

19:23

or Existed, but they don't make it

19:26

the same way anymore. So I'll just

19:28

yeah, you know, this shirt is the

19:30

it's not it's not a complete copy,

19:32

but the old U .S.

19:34

made Wrangler shirts okay

19:36

they were cut

19:38

trim they were denim

19:40

they were good

19:42

denim right a certain

19:45

point they started

19:47

making them elsewhere and

19:49

made made them

19:51

out of shitty denim

19:53

and then it

19:55

just turns to garbage

19:57

so I was

19:59

like those are those

20:02

are now missing

20:04

in the world yeah

20:06

stop making good

20:08

ones so that's when

20:10

I started making

20:12

my version well this

20:14

I think this

20:16

shirt's a pre -sellout

20:18

Philson gotcha yeah I

20:21

mean yeah that

20:23

the the history of

20:25

that company the

20:27

tragedy of that company

20:29

it's yeah I'm I

20:31

stopped sure I mean the history there's

20:33

so much good history in Philson

20:35

it's an inspiration for you small little

20:37

brand like me like what they've

20:39

done over the years yeah well I

20:41

mean like wait well so where

20:43

does it start though I mean cuz

20:45

I know I know you're just a Jersey

20:47

guy yeah yeah but like not

20:50

not North Jersey I come from North Jersey

20:52

I come from I always

20:54

say I don't come from Jersey I

20:56

come from Jersey yeah you know

20:58

where divide and crick it's called it's

21:00

little small town in the closest town

21:02

people seem to know as Vineland

21:04

yeah that's it I don't man I

21:06

I mean I I know here's

21:08

what I know I know Bergen County

21:11

and I know the Jersey Shore

21:13

and I know Jersey City so I

21:15

know you know Patterson Wayne Pompton

21:17

Lakes the Haskell Butler up where my

21:19

grandparents were and I know Jersey

21:21

City and then I know like Mammoth

21:23

County gotcha yeah see I'm two

21:25

and a half hours which way out

21:28

of Mammoth yeah well where's Mammoth is

21:30

that central it's on it's a beach

21:32

it's like it's on the water it's

21:34

by Asbury okay yeah so yeah at

21:36

least an hour and a half to

21:38

from there you know where Kate May

21:40

is all the way down the bottom

21:42

no but like what's the bottom of

21:44

Jersey that little okay yeah yeah sure

21:46

so that's Kate May yeah I'm on

21:48

the Delaware Bay side half hour north

21:50

of there okay on the Bay so

21:53

that's barely Jersey no it's real

21:55

that's actually Jersey so

21:58

again an argument about what

22:00

That's real Jersey. That's not where Bruce Springsteen

22:02

comes from now. No, it's not. But

22:04

what is it right up against Delaware

22:06

then? The Delaware Bay. So if you cross

22:09

the bay from where I'm at, you'll hit

22:11

Delaware. Yeah. So what are you, are you,

22:13

you're on the water then? On the water,

22:15

my dad's an oysterman, commercial fisherman. Oyster guy.

22:17

Yeah, oyster guy. So you grew up

22:20

with oysters. Yeah, my first job was

22:22

on an oyster boat on an oyster

22:24

boat. Really. Really? Really? Yeah, is that

22:26

where ship was on an oyster boat.

22:28

Yeah, ship John is a lighthouse right

22:30

in the middle of the Delaware Bay

22:32

called Ship John Scholl. Mm-hmm. And that

22:34

was kind of a point of reference

22:37

when we're fishing as a young kid

22:39

or working. We're south of Ship John

22:41

today north of Ship John

22:43

or that kind of thing. So

22:45

wait, this is before Oyster Farms.

22:48

It's, they're farmed. Yeah, they're farmed.

22:50

You know, but they're back then.

22:52

On the west coast, like on the Willopa

22:55

Bay, the title go down and they

22:57

actually string the shells up and pick

22:59

the oysters in some instances. So the

23:01

hipsters figure out a way to pick

23:03

oysters. The hipsters too? I don't know.

23:05

I just know that when you go

23:07

to up the coast outside of you

23:09

know Northern California and stuff that and

23:11

up into Washington they get all these

23:13

different kinds of oysters it just seems

23:15

like someone got the idea to breed

23:18

these things and then put them on

23:20

string so you could pick them off.

23:22

Yeah you just go out there and pick

23:24

them like tomatoes. But that's not the old

23:26

school way. The old old school they would

23:28

tongue them. They'd have these long tongues where

23:30

they'd you know I think... 12 15 foot

23:33

tongs yeah they just reach down there and

23:35

just pull as many as they could so

23:37

this is more efficient yeah the dredges

23:39

are more efficient right because Jersey like

23:41

are they the big oysters yeah medium

23:43

not giant yeah because like there's

23:45

some like and then you've got

23:47

all the clamming no clamming in the

23:50

family there's a little bit of not

23:52

in our family history maybe my

23:54

dad's grand power something like that would

23:56

clam yeah none of those big cohogs

23:59

or steamers What are the steamers? That's

24:01

a little one? It's a little next.

24:03

They're good. Yeah. That's what I remember

24:05

about the Jersey shore. The Jersey shore

24:08

is getting those bucket of steamers. Melted

24:10

butter on these things. Yeah. Just pull

24:12

the thing off the tongue. You still

24:14

eat shellfish? I haven't eaten any of

24:16

the meats of sea or land. What

24:19

do you get a cat? Two years.

24:21

They actually make it now. Well,

24:23

yeah, I mean, it's only been

24:25

a couple years, but they make

24:27

a vegan rub in there. That's

24:29

fucking awesome. No shit. Yeah, okay. Some

24:31

companies do like a vegan Cornbee

24:33

facsimile, which is just with the

24:36

spices, and then you can get,

24:38

you know, the sour crowd, vegan,

24:40

Russian dressing, avocado instead of cheese,

24:43

they grill it, it's fucking fine.

24:45

I bet it's good. I don't

24:47

know, I don't miss the meat,

24:50

what am I tell you? You

24:52

don't. But what was he saying?

24:54

You got brothers and sisters? Yeah,

24:56

they're all still kind of around

24:59

that zone. They're not fishermen. Brothers

25:01

work at their labors. They won't

25:03

come the highways. They fix the

25:06

roads up and down New Jersey.

25:08

Bridges and your dad's still around

25:10

or no? Yeah. And your dad's

25:13

still around or no? Yeah, he's

25:15

still working on the boats. He's still,

25:17

he won't quit. So oysters and what

25:19

else? Crabs. It gets what we want

25:22

from the bottom of the edge. Yeah,

25:24

yeah. So you get those doubleware crabs?

25:26

Yeah, the blue point, the, or not blue,

25:28

sorry, blue crab. Yeah, yeah, blue crab.

25:31

Yeah. What are those other ones that

25:33

are the bigger ones? Dungeonists. Dungeon, that's

25:35

West Coast. That's up by, up by,

25:37

near you are, by Washington, right? They're

25:39

so damn good. You get one of

25:41

them. And then with those ones down

25:43

in Florida. Florida. Like Joe's crabs, those bigger,

25:45

there's another type of crab down there where it's

25:48

kind of like a dungeonist. I never eat crabs

25:50

in Florida. Yeah, well you gotta go to Joe's

25:52

Crab Shack or whatever. I'll make a big deal.

25:54

It's a big deal, those crabs. I feel like

25:56

I've heard of it. I never realized what kind

25:59

of crabs they do. have down there. Yeah

26:01

so you're so you basically are

26:03

in a family of fishermen yeah

26:05

and everyone's kind of hanging out and

26:08

what makes you want to get the

26:10

fuck out of there I just I

26:12

just didn't quite I love the

26:14

way I grew up yeah we grew

26:17

up you know rabbit hunting deer hunting

26:19

fishing all the all the kind of

26:21

all the woods yeah yeah yeah bow

26:23

hunting or gun hunting. But a little

26:25

both. Yeah. So you can handle a

26:28

bow? I can handle a bow. It's

26:30

been a long time. Yeah. And what

26:32

you guys do, shoot like one deer

26:34

a year? Nowadays, I don't want to

26:37

give out any secrets on how they

26:39

do. Yeah. They fill the freezer up.

26:41

Yeah. And that's pretty much all the

26:43

meat they're eating. For the year.

26:45

For six months. Yeah, for the,

26:47

I mean, for the year. Yeah.

26:49

Oh, really. Yeah. Same with, well,

26:52

rabbitsits too. We'd eat rabbits sometimes, but

26:54

we'd give them to like some of

26:56

the poor families around. We kind of

26:58

did it for a sport. They never

27:00

went to waste. You grew up shooting

27:02

those guns? Yeah. Yeah. 22, shotguns, big

27:05

ones. Shock guns, some rifles, handguns, handguns,

27:07

handguns, for fun. Yeah. Gun shot in

27:09

the hand one time with a 22.

27:12

What'd that do? Yeah. It just, I

27:14

think there's a little shard of it

27:16

still in there. But it wasn't, my

27:19

buddy sprayed the... Shell sitting there with

27:21

a you know the hair spray torch.

27:23

Yeah, he sprayed a shell of

27:25

it sitting there and it shot me

27:27

in the hand like a dumb

27:29

to them. That's some fun kid

27:31

stuff fun kid shit. What do

27:34

you think was gonna happen? I

27:36

don't know if you did think

27:38

So you really grew up in

27:40

that in in that sort of

27:42

rugged outdoor working class world. Yeah,

27:44

yeah, just middle of the fucking

27:46

woods riding dirt bags from when

27:48

you were a kid. Yeah, yeah.

27:51

Because like there's something about ship

27:53

John like there and it's always

27:55

been the way with me in certain

27:57

clothing in that I know I'm not

27:59

living. the life that the clothing honors.

28:01

So I've got to temper my purchases to

28:03

acknowledge the fashion and not come off as

28:06

a poser of any kind. I don't really

28:08

buy into any of that shit. I just

28:10

think if somebody wants to wear something, wear

28:12

it. The thing about it is, is like

28:15

I didn't. Come from the fashion world. No,

28:17

I know at all. I know it's just

28:19

like these are the clothes that I think

28:22

are nice right will last a long time

28:24

Whoever wants to wear them, you know, now

28:26

the like work where fashion is kind of

28:28

a big thing It's been one for a

28:31

little while and then we have people who

28:33

buy our shit and actually beat the hell

28:35

out of it, you know, so... For real,

28:37

for the work. Yeah. Well, I think Filson's

28:40

the same way. But, like, I just remember,

28:42

I used to do a joke a million

28:44

years ago when, you know, shirts, you know,

28:46

work shirts were getting popular back the first

28:49

time when I was in college. These guys

28:51

would get these shirts with, like, someone's name

28:53

on it, and I had a joke about,

28:55

like, yeah, that must have belonged to somebody

28:58

who somebody who had a somebody who had

29:00

a job. Well, you got a

29:02

job, kind of. Well, you know, I'm just

29:04

careful. Like, I had an experience where, and

29:06

I've told the story before, but not too

29:08

many times, where, you know, I was in

29:10

Boston, and one of the DJs who used

29:13

to show up at comedy shows to kind

29:15

of promote him, he always had these amazing

29:17

leather jackets, and Vansen leathers, was in Quincy.

29:19

So I'm like, well, I asked him, I

29:21

said, where you get it? And he's like,

29:23

you gotta go out to Quincy to Vanson.

29:25

And so I'm like, I'm going out there.

29:27

I'm gonna go to the source, you know.

29:29

And I remember, you know, trying on a

29:31

jacket and a guy like fitting me, like,

29:33

he was there, he says, you know, well,

29:35

if you're gonna be traveling pretty high speeds,

29:37

you're probably gonna want something that fits a

29:39

little snugger than this. I'm like, I'm like,

29:41

I'm like, I'm looking for something, I'm a

29:43

sweater, I'm a sweater, a sweater, I'm like,

29:46

I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like,

29:48

I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like,

29:50

I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm, I'm

29:52

like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm

29:54

like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm gonna be

29:56

doing a lot of walking in this. Did

29:58

you feel like you're appropriating motorcycle culture with

30:00

that thing on? Of course. Yeah. But like

30:02

I, and I, like there was one I.

30:04

a lot, but I always have a problem

30:06

with sweat. I think Dino ended up with...

30:08

Delray ended up with both of those. I

30:10

think I just gave them to them. If

30:12

you wanted to sort of move them or

30:14

sell them. Because the one I really liked,

30:17

like I sweat through, so now I got

30:19

to, you know, really, I don't sweat as

30:21

much as I used to, I'm maybe a

30:23

more relaxed, but... That's the meat. You got

30:25

rid of the meat? Maybe, I think I

30:27

got rid of the stress too, some of

30:29

it, you know, that... That salt stain on

30:31

it and it fucks it up and there's

30:33

nothing you can you can't get rid of

30:35

it It wants to stay there. It's gonna

30:37

you're gonna fuck it up. You can hide

30:39

it. It'll show its face again. Yeah. Yeah,

30:41

you can you can redi it I guess

30:43

but it was just a it bummed me

30:45

out Yeah, but that's why when I got

30:48

that um I think I got some fabric

30:50

from you like the most waterproof fabric you

30:52

had you just sent me a little piece

30:54

of it I don't remember because I wanted

30:56

them to sew Armpit things into that suede

30:58

thing. Oh, I remember that now. That was

31:00

that jacket in there? Yeah, old one. The

31:02

Japanese one, no. The Y2. Yeah. I had

31:04

a guy, the tailor I know, kind of

31:06

fabricates some sweat things. That was a sweat?

31:08

Yeah, to put it inside it. Yeah. Just

31:10

so to have a little boundary, so don't

31:12

fuck the suede up. Oh shit. All right.

31:14

Yeah. Makes sense now. Yeah. That was that

31:16

idea. That was that idea. That idea. So,

31:18

so, okay. So, okay, so, so, okay, so,

31:21

so, so, so, so, okay, so what do

31:23

you do you do you do you do

31:25

you do you do you do you do

31:27

you do you do you do you do

31:29

you do you do you doing, working odd

31:31

jobs, so I was a valet Parker. You

31:33

just wanted to go to Philly because it

31:35

was a big city? Yeah, well I was

31:37

in the skating actually, not skateboarding, I was

31:39

in the... rollerblading really that doesn't seem like

31:41

a man's game I thought it was but

31:43

not did that when I was a kid

31:45

and we're not doing pools in a on

31:47

rowers no yeah all that shit oh you

31:49

can do them on the handrails and all

31:52

that with the with the rollerblades yeah okay

31:54

but did you have the guys on skateboards

31:56

look at the rollerbladers look at the rollerbladers

31:58

they didn't like us if I'm being honest

32:00

I did get one of the guys who

32:02

built FDR said I was

32:04

the only, FTR's a skate

32:06

park in Philadelphia, made by

32:09

skateboarders. I knew how to skate

32:11

concrete, so he noticed that

32:13

and he was like, you're

32:15

the only rollerblader allowed. Oh

32:18

really? So I got a

32:20

little badge from that. Who

32:22

was that skater that I met

32:24

the new you canters? Oh, that

32:26

was Matt. Yeah. Isn't he a skate

32:28

guy? Well, I knew he did something. He's a

32:30

sweet dude. He's the kind of guy who, like,

32:33

takes care of the kids, you know, he like,

32:35

makes sure everybody feels good about like

32:37

what they're, even if they, they suck

32:39

at what they're doing, he'll back him

32:41

up and cheer him. That's sweet. Yeah,

32:43

sweet guy. He's a good dude. Yeah,

32:46

he was a competitive rollerboyder that guy?

32:48

Yeah, at a certain point. Yeah, he's

32:50

owned a skate shop for a skatea

32:52

skate skate shop for a long time.

32:55

Boards helps the community out and blades

32:57

just blades. I think maybe skateboards. Yeah,

32:59

you never did the you never did

33:01

the skateboard. I'd skateboarded too. Yeah, yeah,

33:03

competitively. No, no, no. Can you do

33:06

the can you go up the side

33:08

of a pool and then turn around

33:10

come down? Yeah, I could still do

33:12

that problem. I'd probably shouldn't do that. Were

33:14

you a punk rock guy? A little

33:16

bit. I delved into like East Coast hardcore

33:18

for a little bit. He had to,

33:20

right, with this case, but maybe not

33:22

not quite his heart. I mean, it didn't

33:25

really tie him. That all came from

33:27

my brother. You know, he was

33:29

real into the older brother. Yeah.

33:31

He was, what's he, nine years

33:33

older than I am. So he

33:35

fed me all the... all the

33:37

Fugazis and the New York hardcore,

33:40

each duo and all that shit.

33:42

How old are you? I'm 43.

33:44

Oh, you're a fucking kid. It's

33:46

crazy. How you pronounce your last

33:48

name? Elias. Elias. Yeah. Because I

33:50

was going, I knew it could

33:53

have been Elias or Elias. A

33:55

lot of. Yeah. That's a family

33:57

name. Yep. All right. So what.

34:00

what occurs because like your journey as

34:02

you know a clothing manufacturer is a

34:04

little peculiar isn't it? It is not

34:06

the way a lot of people go

34:09

about it. So you're skating and you're

34:11

working in restaurants in Philadelphia. Then I

34:13

was a bike messenger and then I

34:15

you know I was parking cars doing

34:18

those jobs where you give cigarettes out

34:20

of bars and stuff like that. We

34:22

met in Philadelphia. Okay. Yeah. We decided

34:25

it was time to get the fuck

34:27

out of Philadelphia. This is around 2004.

34:29

Yeah. Something like that. So we hopped

34:31

in a Volkswagen van, believe it or

34:34

not, 79, and headed west and just

34:36

traveled the country, had no sites on

34:38

anywhere. Where to live? No. We just

34:41

left. Yeah. And so you did a

34:43

cross road trip? Yeah. We were up

34:45

across the country three, four times, up

34:47

and I don't know. Zig zigzags. But

34:50

that was the idea, we're just going

34:52

to live off the land for a

34:54

year. We wanted to move somewhere, but

34:57

we didn't know where. Okay. You know,

34:59

sure. We thought about the desert, we

35:01

thought about West Texas. Oh, yeah. Like,

35:03

Marfa? Like, there's this little town called

35:06

Trelingwa, it's a little town called Trelingwa,

35:08

it's a little bit. Hung out there

35:10

for a little bit, hung out in

35:13

California for a little bit. This is

35:15

zigging around. What were you doing for

35:17

money? Playing guitar. Really? The street, yeah.

35:19

And wrecking up credit card, dead. How'd

35:22

you do on the street with the

35:24

guitar? I mean, I never made a

35:26

shit ton of money, but I'd make

35:28

enough for a little gas or burgers.

35:31

You've been playing a long time. Yeah.

35:33

Yeah. And I'm going to call him

35:35

out for this, but I was like,

35:38

dad, can you teach me how to

35:40

put your heart? And he was like,

35:42

I taught myself, you could teach your

35:44

damn self. So that was the, that's

35:47

your guiding principle. I got to teach

35:49

myself. Honestly, kind of, yeah, it stuck

35:51

with me. Yeah. I taught myself how

35:54

to play guitar in late teens, early

35:56

20s, and just kind of like folk

35:58

stuff. Sure. What did he play? Your

36:00

classic rock and roll. Oh yeah, yeah.

36:03

I'm like, push your man and some

36:05

Zeppelin stuff. Oh yeah, yeah. On acoustic.

36:07

Oh, acoustic. Oh, that was always happening

36:10

in the house. Oh, that's good. But

36:12

all right, so you're playing guitar on

36:14

the street. So you're living this kind

36:16

of pseudo hippie lifestyle. A little bit,

36:19

I mean. Pretty groovy. Yeah, I wasn't

36:21

like a hippie per se. Yeah, just

36:23

kind of. Well, I know, but you

36:26

know, just kind of free spirit. Sure.

36:28

Right. Yeah. And how do you get

36:30

up to Portland? We had to meet

36:32

somebody there. We had a job in.

36:35

at a skate camp actually for a

36:37

summer because we ran out of money.

36:39

This is in Datchby, California and met

36:42

some friends there. They invited us to

36:44

work on their farm up in Humbold.

36:46

Pop farm? Yeah, trimming. Yeah. So you

36:48

did that? You're picking, picking buds? Picking

36:51

buds, trimming buds. This would be four

36:53

hydroponic, right? It's out in the wild.

36:55

This is in the woods, yeah. So

36:57

illegal pop farm in the woods. Yeah.

37:00

Yeah. That must have been pretty because

37:02

I remember that was where all the

37:04

good pot came from for a while

37:07

before. Yeah, it was back in the

37:09

day when I still used drugs, you

37:11

know, I remember when when like, you

37:13

know, like since like when buds came,

37:16

like they were rare. I mean, like

37:18

all of a sudden you're getting these

37:20

fucking humbolt. Buds before that is just

37:23

like whatever kind of shaking in a

37:25

little bag, but it was it was

37:27

it was in my lifetime That sense

37:29

of me became the thing yeah, right?

37:32

Yeah, it used to be like they

37:34

didn't sell that shit It was crazy.

37:36

I don't even know why I don't

37:39

know the history of weed I mean

37:41

it always came in buds. Maybe they

37:43

just grounded down to stretch it who

37:45

the hell knows mixed mix the the

37:48

leaves and yeah, like that's the shit

37:50

with the shake with the good stuff

37:52

But yeah, but yeah, but when those

37:55

hydriches like it was hydroponic too that

37:57

came out of Canada but when the

37:59

humble weed came and I was still

38:01

smoking weed it was pretty exciting yeah

38:04

that was like the place yeah I

38:06

knew a guys who came from up

38:08

in that area played in a band

38:10

called Dieselhead I remember oh he would

38:13

like that bend actually I'll check it's

38:15

two well there's only like two records

38:17

but they were kind of this odd

38:20

bunch of guys who were playing around

38:22

San Francisco that did kind of a

38:24

hillbilly punky kind of not really

38:26

hillbilly but it's hard to describe them

38:28

but I kind of knew those guys

38:31

and they were all kind of humble

38:33

kids yeah so you're up in humble

38:35

picking buds doing that and then before

38:37

we went there we had to meet

38:39

somebody in Portland so we're in

38:42

Portland for one day two days maybe

38:44

yeah and then went down there got

38:46

in with that and we're like you

38:48

want to go check at least check

38:50

Portland out a little bit more it

38:52

seemed like here's that there that was

38:54

six okay yeah six yeah so that's

38:57

sort of peak Portland it was good

38:59

it was good so you get up

39:01

there you're like this is it felt

39:03

grovy we kind of just you know

39:05

we're living in the van on not

39:07

to like four blocks from where my

39:10

shop is now just in a parking

39:12

lot and uh We didn't have any

39:14

computers or anything. So we could go

39:16

to this little coffee shop and look

39:19

at their like community computer and find

39:21

jobs and places to live and ended

39:23

up finding the I got a job

39:25

at Stumptown. The coffee place, the original

39:27

Stump Town. I went into the original

39:29

one to apply. I didn't know what

39:31

a fucking latte was. I was wearing

39:33

like the same vist as the guy

39:35

Blake working, same plaid. You guys hiring?

39:37

He's like, yeah, actually we are. Yeah.

39:39

trained up and started making coffee and

39:42

worked there. You're doing you're pulling espresso?

39:44

Full and espresso. Yeah, that's what you

39:46

do important. That was kind of a,

39:48

so at that time, Stumtown was the

39:50

only good coffee. There were some other

39:52

ones starting, but that was before they

39:54

got really huge. Oddly, Stumtown for whatever

39:56

reason is still very good coffee. Oh, it's

39:58

great coffee. And I can't ever figure. out what

40:00

it is but there I guess the

40:02

magic is in the roast. and the

40:04

beans, but like you, if you drink

40:06

Stumtown, you're like, oh, this is Stumtown.

40:08

Yeah, it has, it has a flavor.

40:11

It's all of them. They don't fuck

40:13

it up, you know, like, they don't

40:15

overroasted, they don't underroasted. Right, it's a

40:17

magic, you got to find the magic

40:19

numbers. Everybody roast coffee, everybody roast coffee.

40:21

Everybody roast coffee, sort of like, right,

40:23

it's a magic, you got to find

40:25

the magic numbers. Yeah, yeah, it, it,

40:27

it, it has, it has, it has,

40:29

it has, it has, it has, it

40:32

has, it has, it has, it has,

40:34

it has, it has, it, it has,

40:36

it has, it has, it has, it

40:38

has, it has, it has, it has,

40:40

it has, it has, it has, it

40:42

has, it has, it has, it has,

40:44

it has, it has, it has, it

40:46

has, it has, it No, at that

40:48

point they had three of them. And

40:50

only in Portland. It wasn't like a

40:53

nationwide or worldwide thing at that point.

40:55

But it was cool because everybody read

40:57

in Portland. It was the best coffee

40:59

in Portland at the time. So everybody

41:01

came in. So that was my intro

41:03

to Portland. I got to meet all

41:05

these amazing folks, musicians, artists, all these

41:07

people. I became part of the community

41:09

in Portland pretty quick. as a like

41:11

a guitar guy or just a guy

41:13

as the guy who made people's coffee

41:16

at that point but made some friends

41:18

you know and it was a good

41:20

intro to the city yeah yeah whereas

41:22

I don't know if I never got

41:24

that I only worked there for a

41:26

year but if I never got that

41:28

job I don't know what would happen

41:30

because when I started making shit like

41:32

all my friends who I met through

41:34

through the coffee show yeah started buying

41:37

the shit right just kind of Branched

41:39

out from there. But how does that

41:41

happen? You're just a dude who's got

41:43

no real vision. And when do you

41:45

like make your first shit? What what

41:47

compels you? To do that. It's it's

41:49

always been the same thing. It's always

41:51

been like I mentioned earlier with the

41:53

shirt. Yeah, but still there's a big

41:55

jump between this isn't around anymore and

41:58

well, that's how it started too. You

42:00

know, so at the time I was

42:02

real in the cycling too. bicycles, you

42:04

know, bicycles, yeah, yeah, the riding bicycles

42:06

around and you know those little cycling

42:08

hats with the little brim? Yeah. You

42:10

couldn't find those without a big fucking

42:12

logo on the side. Right. And I've

42:14

never been a big fucking logo guy.

42:16

Yeah. So I wanted to make my

42:19

own cycling hats without a logo. So

42:21

that was the first thing. Started selling

42:23

those. At the time I was like

42:25

starting to make wallets and shit like

42:27

that. But that was like the... With

42:29

what? Just your hands? Shiddish sewing machine

42:31

I had. So you didn't know how

42:33

to sew though. You figured it apart.

42:35

Basically I've altered the pattern a little

42:37

bit made it fit my big old

42:39

head yeah and Started sewing them up,

42:42

you know, I've fucked I've fucked a

42:44

bunch. Well, yeah, but that's all that's

42:46

like your dad You know you got

42:48

to teach yourself. Yeah, so you got

42:50

a shitty sewing machine. You're taken apart

42:52

pieces of clothing so you can figure

42:54

out patterns. Yeah, and you made by

42:56

cats made by cats that turned into

42:58

that became popular your by cats. Well,

43:00

I met one of the best bicycle

43:03

builders in Portland. Yeah, Sasha White, still

43:05

one of my best friends. He's building

43:07

these phenomenal handmade bikes. Yeah. And I

43:09

went into a shop and he asked

43:11

me about my hat. Yeah. And he

43:13

liked it. I'd be one out of

43:15

wool. Yeah. And then he was like,

43:17

can you do a run for vanilla

43:19

for vanilla bicycles? Yeah. It's like, yeah.

43:21

Yeah. It's like my craft's person hero.

43:24

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that turned into

43:26

me making bicycles with him. So I

43:28

started to learn metalwork. So, okay, so

43:30

you do the hats. Do the hats.

43:32

But you're making one hat at a

43:34

time. Yeah, yeah, I think I did

43:36

like 25 hats for him or something.

43:38

That was the run. That was a

43:40

huge run for me. That took you

43:42

a month. Yeah. Worked my ass off

43:45

on this thing. Did they sell pretty

43:47

good? Yeah, they sold out. So now

43:49

you're in the shop and you're starting

43:51

to learn how to put together bikes.

43:53

Yeah, he he needed he was starting

43:55

like a little bit of a production

43:57

run of bikes and he just needed

43:59

hands, right? He's like you ever and

44:01

I'm like, no, but I'll fucking figure

44:03

it out. Same thing with a latte.

44:05

I figure out to make a lathe,

44:08

I can figure out to run a

44:10

lathe, right? Yeah. So I just go

44:12

in there and start learning how to

44:14

fabricate metal. Yeah. So we're, you know,

44:16

hand making bicycle frames in a little

44:18

shop. Yeah. And then you're welding? He's

44:20

doing all the brazing at that point.

44:22

I ended up doing some of it,

44:24

but, but, um. So I'm like prepping

44:26

all the parts. So tubes have to

44:29

fit together with a miter or some

44:31

people call to cope. Yeah. Where the

44:33

tube kind of wraps around the other

44:35

tube. Right. So I'm prepping all those

44:37

miters and stuff like that. But you're

44:39

learning the ropes. Learning the ropes with

44:41

the machines. And also a lot of

44:43

handwork and I think that's where I

44:45

really realize what I could do with

44:47

my hands. Yeah. Like what kind of

44:50

hand work on the bikes? A lot

44:52

of hand filing. Okay. Sure. Sure. Some

44:54

tubes are welded, some are what's called

44:56

fillet bracing, which is like a brass

44:58

ramp between the two tubes, which holds

45:00

the steel together. So to make those

45:02

perfect, you have to do a lot

45:04

of hand fire. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So

45:06

you're getting skills. Getting skills and learning

45:08

how to use my hands. And once

45:11

you kind of realize the hand eye

45:13

coordination and the brain. construction coordination. You

45:15

can apply that in a lot of

45:17

different ways. Sure. I think that's when

45:19

my dexterity and my kind of, my

45:21

brain kind of opened up to how

45:23

I can use my hands. And you

45:25

learn to craft too though. Learn to

45:27

craft, yeah. And I still use that.

45:29

I still make little metal bits. Yeah,

45:31

I know, I have some. I have

45:34

some metal bits. Yeah. Every time you

45:36

get a wild idea, I'm like, oh

45:38

yeah, okay. I need that thing that

45:40

holds the record down. Yeah. That's where

45:42

my mind's going these days, because I,

45:44

you know, my mind is always, I

45:46

love the clothing that we make, but

45:48

I don't, it's hard for me to

45:50

get excited about another piece of clothing.

45:52

Oh yeah? Personally, yeah. I mean, I'm

45:55

excited about what we, like, putting this

45:57

stuff out there, but my mind wants

45:59

to make other rat shit. Well, okay,

46:01

so, but like in the world of

46:03

what you do, so you quit the

46:05

coffee shop to work at the bike

46:07

place. And then what happens? So

46:09

you got this metal skill

46:11

set, you've made hats. So

46:14

then what's the next jump?

46:16

I started making bags

46:18

for bicycles. Messenger bags?

46:20

No, like a panier bag that

46:23

would go on to a bicycle.

46:25

Out of what? Canvas. A leather

46:27

or no? A little bit of

46:29

leather, sometimes webbing. Uh-huh. So I'm

46:31

starting to formulate these, these, and

46:33

the pattern making on those is more

46:35

straightforward than a garment. Yeah. It's a

46:38

rectangle here, rectangle there, curve here, blah,

46:40

blah, blah. Yeah. So I'm starting to

46:42

formulate a little bit more of an

46:44

idea of how to construct a pattern.

46:47

Yeah. Learned about seam allowances more. And

46:49

this is all by fucking up, you

46:51

know. And stitching. Stitching, my

46:53

stitching's getting straighter. Yeah, yeah.

46:55

And just starting to figure

46:57

out tools to at the same

47:00

time, because I didn't, there wasn't,

47:02

you couldn't go on YouTube and

47:04

figure out to make something back

47:06

then. Yeah. So I'm like, fuck, there's

47:08

got to be a tool for this.

47:11

Yeah. So I had the internet, so

47:13

I had to research, but like

47:15

there wasn't this wide variety of

47:17

people selling leather. Tools online point.

47:19

Oh really? You had to go to

47:22

like really fucking search. You had to

47:24

go to Tandy? Tandy's kind of bullshit

47:26

tools, but I'm glad they're there because

47:28

are they still there? They're still there.

47:31

Isn't that crazy? It used to be

47:33

owned by Radio Check. No shit. Yeah,

47:35

really. Tandycore owned Radio Shack,

47:37

I know they were affiliated,

47:40

but I always didn't know

47:42

that. Anytime I went to

47:44

a Tandy store for whatever,

47:46

like, rarely in my life,

47:48

but I just remember there

47:51

always being a Tandy store,

47:53

right? I grew up in

47:55

New Mexico, and I'm like,

47:57

who the fuck is shopping in here?

47:59

and all kinds of tool applications.

48:01

If you're gonna make you and

48:03

your friends a couple of belts,

48:06

it's perfect for that. You know,

48:08

you buy the tools, they're not

48:10

gonna last forever. They'll do the

48:12

job, they'll do the job, they'll

48:14

get the job done, but if

48:16

you're gonna make this shit, manufacture

48:18

it, that stuff's not gonna hold

48:20

up. Yeah, it just isn't. So

48:22

all right, so you figure out

48:24

where to get leather tools. Yeah.

48:26

Started learning about, CS Osborne as

48:28

New Jersey. One of the leather

48:30

places? Yeah, one of the leather

48:32

tool manufacture. Oh, yeah. So I

48:34

found out about them and I

48:36

started like... Do you have a

48:38

relationship with them now? No, I

48:40

don't, but they don't give a

48:42

shit about me. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

48:44

But they still make the tools.

48:46

They still make the tools. And

48:48

what about the leathers? Are you,

48:50

are you, are you, are, are

48:52

you going to like, or are

48:54

you, like, alongside of the skill

48:56

set in the tools and figuring

48:58

this stuff out? that you're also

49:00

researching materials research materials and and

49:02

and make mistakes just like cutting

49:04

shit up and Sure trying like

49:06

I'd make the the corner of

49:08

a bag just the corner of

49:10

a bag. Yes to see how

49:12

like those two those three pieces

49:14

would fit together Yeah, figuring it

49:16

out. Yeah, just trying to make

49:18

sense of it. What's the first

49:20

like so the first run of

49:22

stuff you did after the hats

49:24

was the bags? I started making

49:26

some custom bags for custom vanilla

49:28

buy schools. And then I started

49:30

making my own kind of duffel

49:32

bags and backpacks and things like

49:34

that. Yeah, you still do that.

49:36

Still do that. Yeah. Yeah. So

49:38

where does the influence to kind

49:40

of broaden it out? You got

49:42

that from Philson? I mean, in

49:44

a sense, there was definitely inspiration

49:46

from them. Well, I remember when

49:48

I bought my wills jacket early

49:50

on. Because Dean brought me to

49:52

the, before he even had a

49:54

store really. He brought me to

49:56

the first shop. Yeah. You know,

49:58

I didn't know who you were.

50:00

Yeah, but he said like a

50:02

little, little. Yeah, little, yeah. And

50:04

you know, Dean, yeah, I met

50:06

you and then, you know, he's

50:08

talking up that Will's jacket. And,

50:10

you know, Dean is the pipeline

50:12

to all small artisans of all

50:14

kinds. He finds the folks. Yeah.

50:16

Yeah, he's interesting like that. But

50:18

I imagine between him and I,

50:20

we brought you a few customers.

50:22

I can't, I can't, I can't

50:24

thank you enough. But the problem

50:26

is we're bringing you customers, people

50:28

are like, I gotta wait a

50:30

year for that jacket. Oh yeah,

50:32

but it'll be cool. But I

50:34

remember you telling me, my wills.

50:36

You said that. That oil cloth

50:38

that tin cloth that that's made

50:40

out of yeah, was Filson surplus

50:42

or from the same place that

50:44

Philson used to get it used

50:46

to get it Yeah, oh yeah,

50:48

and I won't mention any any

50:50

exact specifics on that. Yeah, but

50:52

So so the wheels jacket was

50:54

born of that fabric was prior

50:56

to the Wills jacket only used

50:58

for luggage bags. Okay, for Philson

51:00

or whatever. Philson, other people made

51:02

stuff. I was making my bags

51:04

out of it. That's how I

51:06

knew about that fabric. Okay. And

51:08

is that called a tin cloth?

51:10

I mean, the tin cloth is

51:12

kind of Philson's term for it.

51:14

It's waxed canvas. Wax canvas. A

51:16

heavy wax camera. Generally speaking. This

51:19

one, the Wills is waxed twill.

51:21

Yeah. Yeah. So you're making bags.

51:23

Making bags. At that point I

51:25

got a job as a stonemason.

51:27

Wow. I was done with the.

51:29

Now you know how to do

51:31

that too. I'm building like hand

51:33

chisling rock walls, dry stack rock

51:35

walls. Yeah. Like an old castle.

51:37

Yeah. So was that a detour?

51:39

Were you still kind of chipping

51:41

away at the clothes? I left

51:43

the bike thing. I was doing

51:45

my own thing this whole time,

51:47

but I. It wasn't making enough

51:49

money for it to be my

51:51

full-time job. So I had to

51:53

work. I was working at bars

51:55

too. I worked at like three

51:57

or four different bars in the

51:59

whole one. Wow, okay. And, you

52:01

know, doing music stuff at the same

52:03

time, all this different shit. Doing Portland stuff.

52:05

Doing Portland stuff. Yeah. Life stuff. Yeah. You

52:07

know, trying to explore whatever the hell it

52:10

was I was going to be doing. Yeah,

52:12

for the rest of it. Yeah. And you

52:14

figure out a way to do all of

52:17

them. So, when do you? I don't know

52:19

if I figured it out yet. But when

52:21

do you start to make it your business?

52:23

How does that is that with the wills

52:26

after the jacket? Yeah, that that kind of

52:28

changed the game So you're not you're still

52:30

working out of your house. Yeah the at

52:32

this point I think right around this time

52:34

I got this little barn studio. Yeah, it's

52:36

a hundred bucks a month. I was like

52:38

a little Maybe 15 by 15 year

52:41

old shells from turn of the century.

52:43

Okay, and but it was finished on

52:45

the inside and you had your other

52:47

tools in there the sewing machine little

52:50

workbench little so machine and all the

52:52

tool I'd like slowly collected tools That's

52:54

what I was doing at that point.

52:56

I sold like a wallet or a

52:58

little thing. Yeah, just buy more tools

53:01

Yeah, I never had I was poor shit.

53:03

Yeah, I didn't have money around and you

53:05

haven't had had a kid yet Not

53:07

yet. Yeah, no. And so, but

53:09

you're also learning how to, you

53:12

know, draw patterns. Yep. And doing

53:14

all that. Yeah. So what, so

53:16

the real, like the moment of lightning

53:19

in a bottle was this

53:21

Will's jacket. And that came, that

53:23

came from, I won't mention a

53:25

name, but I bought, I saved

53:28

up some money and bought this

53:30

really nice work jacket to do

53:32

the stone nice. Yeah, yeah. And

53:34

the fucking thing. Two weeks. Yeah. It

53:37

was gone. Like the front seam fell

53:39

apart. Okay. I got a, I had

53:41

a hole, because I'm carrying these big

53:43

rocks around. Sure. I had holes in

53:45

the arms. Yeah. Like that. And I

53:47

was like, you know what? I got that,

53:49

I have a couple yards of that really

53:51

heavy shit. Yeah. I'm just going to make

53:54

myself a jacket out of that. Right. That

53:56

won't rip. Yeah. That was, that

53:58

was the impetus behind. making the

54:00

wheels jacket. It's like I just needed

54:03

a better jacket. So you made the

54:05

jacket with the brass with the

54:07

brass buttons? Yeah, that brass snaps. Yeah.

54:09

And you made the snaps? No, no,

54:11

no. They were snaps I can get.

54:14

Okay, so you got the brass snaps

54:16

and then you you made the jacket

54:18

and so what people start going

54:20

like where the fuck did you

54:22

get that jacket? It was bonkers. Every

54:25

single person who saw me walking around

54:27

one in one. I had like, you

54:29

know Instagram with like a couple three four

54:31

hundred followers and every single one of

54:33

them one in one Yeah, and all

54:35

the people I worked with at the

54:37

bar one in one and blah blah.

54:39

So just like fuck it, you know,

54:41

like let's make some jackets. Yeah, give me

54:43

some money. I'll get after it. So

54:45

you started to do it. Yeah. Yeah.

54:47

How many did you make? At that point

54:49

it was like 25 or something like

54:51

that and it took a long time

54:53

to you. And yet no one working

54:55

for you? No, it's just me. Making

54:57

Will's Jackets. Making Will's Jackets. Has that

54:59

one fabric. Yep. Yep. So then they

55:02

start spreading. It becomes viral. All of

55:04

a sudden. I mean, I guess for

55:06

back then. Micro viral. Yeah, but everyone

55:08

in Portland one and one and one.

55:10

Spread a little bit to you know,

55:12

I had buddies in Seattle for music

55:14

so they wanted one and right you

55:17

know started to kind of creep out

55:19

into that's all you were making at

55:21

certain point Yeah, yeah, still wallets and

55:23

things like that because at the same

55:25

time I was Doing refining my leather

55:27

Craft, I'm still refining I don't I

55:30

don't mean the chain wallets I have

55:32

a bunch of different wallet designs. Yeah,

55:34

bag designs and things like that all

55:36

right. So when do you start hiring

55:39

people and broadening? the merchandise.

55:41

Just ever so slowly

55:43

decided that the shop had

55:45

to grow and now buy

55:48

some more sewing machines. A

55:50

lot more sewing machines and

55:52

started to hire staff. Are

55:55

you still the primary designer?

55:57

Yeah. Yeah, I do. I design every.

55:59

You don't have anybody there that's sort

56:02

of like, what about this idea? They

56:04

don't even bother? Jacob and I worked

56:06

together on like fabric choices and things

56:09

like that, because, you know, the thing

56:11

I didn't realize when I started the

56:13

business is you have to do all

56:16

this other shit, you know, like payroll

56:18

and all the accounting and all that

56:20

shit. So much of my time and

56:23

now I spent kind of tip-tapping on

56:25

the computer. Yeah. And so it's cool

56:27

to have. trusted folks to bounce those

56:30

ideas off. Jacob, who you met, you

56:32

met a couple times. He's really cool

56:34

in that he studied a lot of

56:37

the history of garments. He's collected like

56:39

vintage band t-shirts in the last fucking

56:41

25, 30 years. So he's a garment

56:44

historian and collector. He kind of is.

56:46

Yeah. And he knows a lot about

56:48

fabrics in the history of him. So

56:50

he'll like do these little searches for

56:53

neat fabrics that are available and kind

56:55

of throw some stuff in front of

56:57

me. And I'm like, nah, that one

57:00

feels this way or feels that way.

57:02

Yeah. So I make the final calls.

57:04

Right. It was funny because when I

57:07

bought the Wills I think I bought

57:09

a waxed shirt that I wore on

57:11

Colbert, remember? Oh yeah yeah. Yeah it

57:14

was too hot to wear on Colbert.

57:16

I bet. Very funny. Yeah those things

57:18

are not, they're not forgiving. Well yeah,

57:21

I mean it's for, you know, it's

57:23

a layer for rain. I mean like

57:25

that's just my thing. It's like this

57:28

is a cool shirt. There I am

57:30

on Colbert like you know sweating my

57:32

balls off in a waxed shirt. It

57:35

looked pretty good though. It looked good.

57:37

Wrong place to wear it. But yeah

57:39

so okay so then you just start

57:42

making all the other stuff. Yeah then

57:44

wills. And then it's kind of the

57:46

same thing like I mentioned earlier. I'm

57:49

one of the I'm one of the

57:51

duffel bag. So started to design to

57:53

make duffel bags and the shirts and

57:56

the jeans and and it's all kind

57:58

of later, right? I mean, it starts

58:00

to grow and in the 2017-18. I

58:02

love the 17-18. The story behind the

58:05

stitching on the back pockets of the

58:07

jeans. Oh yeah, yeah. To make it

58:09

like there has to be a signature

58:12

to jeans. Yeah. And you did it

58:14

with a record. Yeah, yeah, it's one,

58:16

two, three, it's five, 12 inch curves

58:19

that I laid out. Yeah. And that's

58:21

where you get that. And it went

58:23

out for the denim nerds because like

58:26

I'm not a nerd. But you've got

58:28

some machine that you haven't might... Those

58:30

things shrunk up a little on me.

58:33

I might need to get some more.

58:35

Okay. Jeans. What's that shit? Because, like,

58:37

they're about just right, but I think

58:40

they did pull up a little bit.

58:42

I don't know how that happened. You're

58:44

right? No. No? I don't know how

58:47

it happened. Huh. But they're fine, they're

58:49

good, I wear them. But what is

58:51

that machine that is so sought after

58:54

for that bottom hem? The union special,

58:56

the 4800G, it's made for hemming. And

58:58

that's like an old Levi's thing, or

59:01

what is it? Levi's used mud, pretty

59:03

much all the big jeans companies. But

59:05

it's a manual thing. You gotta sit

59:08

there and do it. Yeah, it's, I

59:10

mean, it's got a motor, it's not

59:12

like treadling, or hand-crankingkinging-up. Yeah, you, you,

59:15

you, I do it by eye. Some

59:17

people, like, iron hem out a little

59:19

bit beforehand, but I do it kind

59:21

of, I call it the old hair

59:24

eyeball method. Yeah. You roll it and

59:26

then there's a little folder that holds

59:28

it in place. Yeah. The people love

59:31

that machine because it twists the hem

59:33

a little bit. Yeah. If you look

59:35

at an old pair of Levi's. Yeah.

59:38

The bottom of the hem has this

59:40

little angle to it on the fades

59:42

and the color of roped him. Oh,

59:45

and that's that's what you get with

59:47

that machine that that machine They don't

59:49

make that machine anymore. It's flawed. No,

59:52

no, they don't make it anymore. So

59:54

that's so you get like a little

59:56

time travel element. Yep, definitely. So when

59:59

did the attack happen? Oh, the head

1:00:01

attack. Yeah, that was 2018. Yeah. So

1:00:03

that's about where we are in the

1:00:06

timeline. Yeah, yeah, we're starting to pick

1:00:08

it up with wheels jackets and things

1:00:10

like that. But there's still the old

1:00:13

shop. The first shop, the second shop,

1:00:15

the second real shop. But not the

1:00:17

store shop. Not the one that I

1:00:20

have now. But was it the one

1:00:22

I went to? That's the first one

1:00:24

you went to. Okay. MOK. Yeah. Is

1:00:27

that where it happened? Yeah. And what

1:00:29

happened? That was, so we have music

1:00:31

events. Yeah. In the shop. Yeah. This

1:00:33

one was a whatever celebration we're having.

1:00:36

Yeah. Some Portland Bam is playing. We

1:00:38

had a great night. And Good Art

1:00:40

Hollywood, the silver. Yeah. God. He's just

1:00:43

got me this nice jewelry company. Yeah.

1:00:45

The good art stuff is so fucking.

1:00:47

The good art stuff is so fucking

1:00:50

cool. They are magicians. Yeah. Now I'm

1:00:52

like a bracelet guy. I've been that

1:00:54

in my life at a different time

1:00:57

back when I wore black cowboy boots.

1:00:59

Now you're a real. The new one's

1:01:01

beautiful, the one the ship John Goodart.

1:01:04

Anyway, so yeah, so you had to

1:01:06

have a party and my wife and

1:01:08

I were closing the shop up for

1:01:11

the night. Just a sweet trunk show,

1:01:13

the good art was there, they had

1:01:15

some jewelry to show, just sweet people.

1:01:18

They're always good times, you know, some

1:01:20

drinks, some food, music, and then we

1:01:22

closed the shop up, walk into the

1:01:25

car, and two tweakers on little beam

1:01:27

X bags, cruised by, and... Like one

1:01:29

of them tried to rob me, one

1:01:32

of them kind of sucker hit me

1:01:34

in the head with the with an

1:01:36

axe with a hatchet, with a fucking

1:01:39

hatchet. Yep. Yep. And and you went

1:01:41

down. I went down. Yeah, and your

1:01:43

wife is okay. She thankfully she was

1:01:45

okay. I was out. Yeah, I went

1:01:48

straight down. She effectively, you know, saw

1:01:50

me, you know, saved your life. She

1:01:52

thought that I was gone, you know,

1:01:55

yeah. Cops came, they scurried off. I

1:01:57

came to in the operating room. That's

1:02:00

not supposed to happen. Prepping me.

1:02:02

They hadn't like, they didn't cut

1:02:04

me under yet. They were kind

1:02:06

of like pulling me in there

1:02:08

in the area. And first thing

1:02:10

I thought of, I knew something

1:02:12

happened. Right. My wife was there. Yeah.

1:02:14

And like I just didn't know if

1:02:16

anything happened to her. So I started

1:02:19

trying to say, where's my wife? Yeah.

1:02:21

My skull was cracked and pushed into

1:02:23

the... on the part of my brain

1:02:25

that controls speech. Oh my God. So

1:02:27

I could, everything up to the point

1:02:30

of speech coming out, worked, but it

1:02:32

came out like, oh my God. Oh

1:02:34

my God. Words didn't work. Yeah. It

1:02:36

was crazy. Yeah. So I started getting

1:02:38

up off the fucking thing because I

1:02:40

thought I thought she was in the

1:02:43

next room, you know, over getting operated

1:02:45

on tour or not there. Yeah. And

1:02:47

one of the, yeah, one of the nurses

1:02:49

was like, like, he's not, he

1:02:52

got to get, we got to

1:02:54

get her. Oh, they gave me

1:02:56

a piece of paper and I

1:02:59

was like, I just wrote my

1:03:01

wife, you know. And one of

1:03:03

them, thankfully, she went and got

1:03:06

her, she came in and like

1:03:08

held my hand and then, you

1:03:10

know, you've been put under, they

1:03:13

do the thing like, oh, tell

1:03:15

us about this. Yeah, yeah.

1:03:17

And then you're gone.

1:03:19

Yeah. And everything. Like I

1:03:22

said, everything worked, but I think it's

1:03:24

like the brokest area. I'm not a

1:03:26

fucking brain guy. From what I've read,

1:03:28

and from what my doctors have told

1:03:31

me, the part of my brain, like

1:03:33

my skull, was pushed in, like holding

1:03:35

that part down, so it just wasn't

1:03:37

letting it work. So what did they do?

1:03:39

They had to cut that part of

1:03:42

my skull out, and they just popped

1:03:44

a metal plate on there. And you can

1:03:46

talk. Yeah. Could you talk like right

1:03:48

after surgery? It took a while. Oh,

1:03:50

it did. And I still have

1:03:52

like, I still have, it's like a

1:03:54

sort of an aphasia thing. Okay. But

1:03:57

you got a metal plate in your

1:03:59

head. a mediplete yeah and a second

1:04:01

lease on life second lease on life

1:04:04

how did that change your approach to

1:04:06

life I don't know man I thought

1:04:08

it was gonna I think I'm still

1:04:11

figuring that out yeah still talk to

1:04:13

therapists yeah kind of trying to understand

1:04:15

how it affected me yeah you know

1:04:17

because for a while I'm kind of

1:04:20

a you fall down you've fucking get

1:04:22

get up yeah yeah yeah tough guy

1:04:24

you know sure I'm starting to realize

1:04:27

that it had more of an effect

1:04:29

on me than I thought I'd did

1:04:31

from the last, yeah, yeah. So working

1:04:34

through that with a therapist and trying

1:04:36

to figure all that. Anger? No. No

1:04:38

anger, no anger, no. Just sort of

1:04:41

like the fact of being attacked. There

1:04:43

was a point in time where, you

1:04:45

know, I was going to get my...

1:04:48

CHL and I was like, I'm gonna

1:04:50

carry fucking around with me all the

1:04:52

time. But I just don't want to

1:04:55

be that guy. Yeah, just I don't

1:04:57

want to that to me is living

1:04:59

in fear. Yeah, and I'm like not

1:05:02

I'm scared of a lot of fucking

1:05:04

things in the world, but not being

1:05:06

attacked. Even though it happened to me,

1:05:09

it didn't put me in the state

1:05:11

of like every tweaker I see is

1:05:13

gonna fucking kill me or anything like

1:05:15

that. Right. Did they find the tweakers

1:05:18

that did it? They did. Yeah, it

1:05:20

was like a fucking CSI thing. Oh

1:05:22

really? My wife remembered that one of

1:05:25

them threw a soda cup down? Yeah.

1:05:27

got a video of them buying the

1:05:29

soda and then so they had a

1:05:32

no shit yeah and got him man

1:05:34

yeah I think they caught the guy

1:05:36

who didn't hit me first yeah and

1:05:39

he fucking right at the other guy

1:05:41

yeah and that was that and what

1:05:43

happened what was the justice one of

1:05:46

them got one of them got one

1:05:48

of them got five years one of

1:05:50

got ten years hard time wow so

1:05:53

they're they're put away one of them's

1:05:55

out now that was six years ago

1:05:57

no apologies No, I'm but. Funny enough

1:06:00

the one who Did actually attack me.

1:06:02

Yeah did did a form of an

1:06:04

apology in the in the courtroom. Oh

1:06:06

really? Oh you went to the trial?

1:06:09

Yeah, yeah the arraignment for him and

1:06:11

the other guy was No. No. That's

1:06:13

interesting. So a form of an apology?

1:06:16

Like he said, he was high or

1:06:18

what? It was one of the written

1:06:20

notes that somebody probably helped him out

1:06:23

to write and blah blah blah. But

1:06:25

yeah, they were tweaked out. And so

1:06:27

you have a certain amount of forgiveness?

1:06:30

Yeah. I'd say a little bit. Yeah.

1:06:32

What am I going to do? Fucking

1:06:34

to hate him for the rest of

1:06:37

my life? Yeah. I got other people

1:06:39

hate more than that. But after that,

1:06:41

so the business held up and I

1:06:44

guess after you recovered, you just re-groved

1:06:46

and got back into it, right? Yeah,

1:06:48

I mean, that's another thing with it.

1:06:51

Like so many people, like there was

1:06:53

like, go fund me and they did

1:06:55

a big old like music benefit, shit

1:06:57

like that. And my community just kind

1:07:00

of like gave me the biggest fucking

1:07:02

hug through that. And my employees kept

1:07:04

the shop rolling and it was... It

1:07:07

was a good thing through it, you

1:07:09

know, so we were able to kind

1:07:11

of make it through all that shit.

1:07:14

That's great. I had a pretty long

1:07:16

recovery after that. Yeah, that's amazing. Yeah,

1:07:18

and you got it, you kind of

1:07:21

just plugged on. Still doing it. Yeah,

1:07:23

you know, when does, because like, you

1:07:25

know, I remember I asked you years

1:07:28

ago, that, you know, you do a

1:07:30

lot of, what do you collaborations, I

1:07:32

guess, you know, with Westco leather. Westco

1:07:35

boots and then the letter language language.

1:07:37

Yeah, and And you have relationships with

1:07:39

people in Japan that love your shit.

1:07:42

You seem to go over there a

1:07:44

lot Yeah, is it primarily to buy

1:07:46

fabric or sell stuff or what's a

1:07:48

what's the global market of this stuff

1:07:51

in well a lot of these collaborations

1:07:53

kind of the beautiful thing, the way

1:07:55

I see it is their actual friendships.

1:07:58

It's not just a business transaction. So,

1:08:00

like Chris Warren from Wesco, he's one

1:08:02

of my best friends in the world.

1:08:05

Benny Langlets, they're just, Josh and rage

1:08:07

from Goodart, they're actual true friends of

1:08:09

mine. So it makes the, maybe the

1:08:12

customers don't give a shit about this,

1:08:14

but I think it's an important thing

1:08:16

to. bring these things to birth these

1:08:19

things from a place that's more than

1:08:21

just like we're trying to make money

1:08:23

off of this shit. Of course, it

1:08:26

didn't ever seem that way to me,

1:08:28

but it's also interesting and not unlike

1:08:30

food where if you've got people that

1:08:33

are craftsmen that love what they do

1:08:35

and they're constantly doing new things or

1:08:37

honoring a tradition, you know, the integrity

1:08:39

and quality of this stuff is better.

1:08:42

It's the best you can get. You

1:08:44

know, I remember that one time I

1:08:46

got a denim shirt from you. and

1:08:49

for some whatever reason when the stitching

1:08:51

was coming was coming off and it

1:08:53

was I felt bad because you're like

1:08:56

oh my god that that should never

1:08:58

happen like it was like this glitch

1:09:00

and I felt like I'd insulted you

1:09:03

forever and you well no that I

1:09:05

mean the thing is you can make

1:09:07

we're still dealing with cotton yeah sure

1:09:10

yeah it's it's gonna you know even

1:09:12

you you work your ass off out

1:09:14

there swinging the hammer and everything you

1:09:17

know the stitch is good exactly it's

1:09:19

all that hard work right it's No,

1:09:21

I just noticed it, but we got

1:09:24

on that right away. But I guess

1:09:26

I asked you early on, because even

1:09:28

the nature of the shop, like the

1:09:30

new shop, it's like a functioning boutique.

1:09:33

Like, I mean, you've got a lot

1:09:35

of stuff. I mean, you've got stuff

1:09:37

coming in, you've got products you like

1:09:40

to sell that don't necessarily... Are your

1:09:42

names not on them? Yeah. Yeah. We

1:09:44

got the other thing. But all kinds

1:09:47

of stuff, you know, you know, jackets,

1:09:49

pants, gloves, hats. You did a t-shirt

1:09:51

in the Mark Maroon color? Yeah. Did

1:09:54

that sell? They're gone. Oh, good. Yeah.

1:09:56

And you did a BPT. lighter tea,

1:09:58

the black tea, and you got the

1:10:01

West Coast stuff, you got some language

1:10:03

stuff, and then the good art stuff,

1:10:05

but then you got the axis. Now

1:10:08

the axe, like you got a, you're

1:10:10

into these axes. Like I know you

1:10:12

got some Swedish, what's the axe company

1:10:15

that you work with? Grantsford's brook. I

1:10:17

can't do the accent, but they're from

1:10:19

Sweden. Yeah. And I've just, I've loved

1:10:21

those before, even before I got, I

1:10:24

loved hatchets before I got hitting hitting

1:10:26

the head with the head with one.

1:10:28

He brought a hatchet right to

1:10:30

your head. Oh man. I even,

1:10:33

on the handle of my personal

1:10:35

grandfers, I had it for almost

1:10:37

two decades. Before it happened, I

1:10:39

carved a skull onto the butt

1:10:41

of my handle. So I was

1:10:44

kind of thinking, I'm like, fuck,

1:10:46

did I do some weird? Some

1:10:48

magic, some dark magic, some prophetic

1:10:50

magic. But yeah, those axes have

1:10:52

always lived and there's not a

1:10:54

whole lot of places to get

1:10:57

them. So I figured out how

1:10:59

to carry them and start carrying

1:11:01

them. And they sell good? They

1:11:03

sell pretty good. Yeah. Well, I

1:11:06

guess the question I had early on,

1:11:08

though, was like, have you been

1:11:10

offered to be bought out? It's

1:11:12

been discussed from a couple of

1:11:15

angles. Yeah. But I'm not, I'm not,

1:11:17

I'm, I'm, I don't know, I don't

1:11:19

have, I'm a pretty bad businessman.

1:11:21

Yeah. You know, like, I

1:11:23

keep my prices at a point

1:11:25

where it makes sense for the

1:11:28

health of the business and more,

1:11:30

you know, and I'm not after

1:11:32

it, I don't have that like,

1:11:34

the money, startup, mental, where I'm building

1:11:37

this up to sell it. Well, you

1:11:39

like the work. I do like the

1:11:41

work and I like the brand. It's

1:11:43

a part of me. Yeah, and I

1:11:45

guess the only drawback is that you

1:11:47

can only do so many. Yeah. Like

1:11:49

like if you're going to do a wills

1:11:51

jacket run, you know, people are going to

1:11:53

order them a year in advance and then

1:11:56

they'll get made. Yeah. So I guess the

1:11:58

only that that becomes a question. is like,

1:12:00

is there any way to make

1:12:02

more of these and maintain the

1:12:04

integrity of how I do it?

1:12:06

And I guess the answer has

1:12:08

been no. We've upped it, you

1:12:10

know, we've grown it, not exponentially,

1:12:12

not a shit ton. In terms

1:12:14

of your ability to, for output?

1:12:16

Yeah, for the wheels jackets, specifically,

1:12:18

and working with people to make,

1:12:20

like the collaboration stuff, and offering

1:12:22

other things. So it's expanded, but

1:12:24

I don't like. I feel like

1:12:26

we've expanded on the level that's...

1:12:28

That's... Manageable? Manageable and the foundation

1:12:30

is there before taking the next

1:12:32

step. Right. You know, I don't

1:12:34

like to, you know, if you

1:12:36

start running across a bunch of

1:12:38

stones real fast, one's gonna, you're

1:12:40

gonna slip on one, fuck your

1:12:42

ass. Right. So I like to

1:12:44

have the strong foundation before taking

1:12:46

another step. Yeah. And that's... I

1:12:48

feel like that's a healthy business

1:12:50

move. Sure. Hey, look man, if

1:12:52

you're making enough for the life

1:12:54

you want to live and you're,

1:12:56

you know, providing what your employees

1:12:58

need, I mean, like, that should

1:13:00

be enough. Yeah, I'm happy. Yeah.

1:13:02

And we try to pay our

1:13:04

employees well. I want to continue

1:13:06

to improve that trajectory of making

1:13:08

sure they're taking care of better

1:13:10

and... you know insurance and all

1:13:12

that yeah yeah yeah we we

1:13:14

provide a well-being opportunity for these

1:13:16

people yeah it's the most important

1:13:18

thing yeah yeah yeah now is

1:13:21

your dad wearing any of the

1:13:23

ship's on stuff he's got some

1:13:25

shit yeah out on the boat

1:13:27

Yeah, oh yeah, he's got this

1:13:29

hat. You see this fucking one

1:13:31

of the waxed hats. Yeah, looks

1:13:33

like it's been through oh really

1:13:35

fucking hill All that salt there.

1:13:37

Yeah, yeah, yeah, so he's got

1:13:39

a classic Wax baseball cap style

1:13:41

Yeah, one of our and then

1:13:43

you do the trucker hats that

1:13:45

trucker cut. Yeah, I have a

1:13:47

few of those. Yeah, it's a

1:13:49

big difference man. It's weird where

1:13:51

that that type of hat is

1:13:53

gone. Yeah, they started making them

1:13:55

like the snap bags snap bags

1:13:57

the those seem those are pretty

1:13:59

they're their own thing and they're

1:14:01

pretty good if you like that

1:14:03

style but yeah those dumb ones

1:14:05

with the with that fit real

1:14:07

tight on your head and I

1:14:09

don't know what those are it's

1:14:11

the new the new style of

1:14:13

that hat and I like the

1:14:15

ones you make with the big

1:14:17

top yeah for the the old

1:14:19

style from when I was growing

1:14:21

up totally yeah yeah I crown

1:14:23

so what's a what's a big

1:14:25

plan for the future just to

1:14:27

keep on keeping on Yeah, man.

1:14:29

Starting to like last year was

1:14:31

better than the year before this

1:14:33

year is starting off better than

1:14:35

last year. So starting to continue

1:14:37

improving logistics within us, you know,

1:14:39

smoothing out the way we operate.

1:14:41

And now you seem to have

1:14:43

an obsession with making metal stuff.

1:14:45

metal shit I'm working on more

1:14:47

I just made this little key

1:14:49

release thing yeah yeah that uh

1:14:51

and the wait for the records

1:14:53

I think I saw one of

1:14:55

those someone I worked with on

1:14:57

the movie got you yeah her

1:14:59

husband's an audio file and she's

1:15:01

like I just don't know what

1:15:03

to get I'm like I do

1:15:05

oh yeah even if you don't

1:15:07

use it it looks nice it's

1:15:09

a cool thing yeah yeah I

1:15:11

wonder she got one yeah I

1:15:13

have no way of knowing that

1:15:15

and it what before we go

1:15:17

what's he Your obsession with Stanley

1:15:19

knives, utility knives, is kind of

1:15:21

interesting. You collect them. Well, it's

1:15:23

kind of back to the beginning.

1:15:25

So when I started doing leather

1:15:27

work, I didn't have any money.

1:15:29

But I had one of those

1:15:31

knives, so I did all my

1:15:33

leather cutting with one of those

1:15:35

names. With the Stanley. And so

1:15:37

it's been that like treasured little

1:15:39

tool that I learned how to...

1:15:41

It's not a leather tool. Right.

1:15:43

And specifically the ones where the

1:15:45

blades don't work track. Yeah. So

1:15:47

it's kind of like this, I'm

1:15:49

a nostalgic guy. Yeah. So it's

1:15:51

like this. Oh, that's my little,

1:15:53

my little tool that helped me

1:15:55

learn how to do all this

1:15:57

shit. You know. So it's just

1:15:59

a special job and do a

1:16:01

full-on obsession. Yeah, I got a

1:16:03

little, I got a little, I

1:16:05

have a problem with them. I've

1:16:07

got like Stanley Stanley. I don't

1:16:09

know how many I have, but.

1:16:12

How far back do they go.

1:16:14

Like, like years. I want to

1:16:16

say, originally they were cast iron

1:16:18

and then they were cast aluminum

1:16:20

and so on and so forth.

1:16:22

And now you made one. There's

1:16:24

a ship, John Utility Night. Yep.

1:16:26

Yeah, they got machined in Japan.

1:16:28

Based on the Stanley. It's a

1:16:30

totally new design. Sure. But the

1:16:32

idea is based on the Stanley.

1:16:34

It holds the same blades. Oh

1:16:36

yeah. I got one of those.

1:16:38

It's a beautiful thing. I love

1:16:40

it. I got to get one.

1:16:42

How quick do they fly off

1:16:44

the shelves? The brass ones went

1:16:46

away real quick and then we

1:16:48

did some copper ones. Then we

1:16:50

did aluminum ones and they were

1:16:52

in his hot. Okay. Special aluminum.

1:16:54

People like brass. They like the,

1:16:56

they like the patina. Yeah, yeah,

1:16:58

yeah. All right buddy. Well, it

1:17:00

was great talking to you. Nice

1:17:02

talking to you too, Mark. Thank

1:17:04

you. with the need to create

1:17:06

and manufacture and design. Great guy

1:17:08

and I'm glad to have talked

1:17:10

to him. And again the Decade

1:17:12

Will's jacket is available tomorrow. Go

1:17:14

to ship John.us to order it.

1:17:16

Hang out for a minute folks.

1:17:18

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1:18:22

Hey people, we posted the 20th

1:18:24

ask mark anything bonus episode for

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full merit and subscribers this week

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with my answers to your questions

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including this one Have you ever

1:18:32

blanked out during a live set

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and forgotten how to get back

1:18:36

on track? How do you deal

1:18:38

with that? It happens I wouldn't

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call it blanking out, but sometimes

1:18:42

you'll miss a piece of the

1:18:44

bit or the story that's happened

1:18:46

before where an integral piece of

1:18:48

the story a sentence It just got

1:18:51

away from me. And then usually what

1:18:53

I try to do is backload it,

1:18:55

and so the joke makes sense if

1:18:58

I am acting on my feet, or

1:19:00

in a few instances I've said, oh,

1:19:02

that, why didn't that work? Oh, I

1:19:04

forgot to tell you this part, and

1:19:06

I'll do that. I'm comfortable enough to

1:19:08

where I, in a live show where

1:19:10

I can do that. I don't believe

1:19:12

it's happened to be on television,

1:19:15

but it does happen. And usually

1:19:17

the... the immediate on your feet

1:19:19

thing to do is really just

1:19:21

backload it. See if you can get

1:19:23

it in there before you get to

1:19:26

the ending. So you're not missing that

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Plus. And a reminder before we go,

1:19:44

this podcast is hosted by Acast. All

1:19:47

right, here's some guitar

1:19:49

from back in the day.

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Boomer lives

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and monkey, La

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