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This is the Wuwai Wisdom

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Podcast. Our weekly no-nonsense

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life lessons aim to

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inspire you to master

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your emotional and spiritual

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help, achieve balance harmony

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and flow, and rediscover

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the authentic and awesome

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you. We're your hosts

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David James Lee's and

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Alexandra Lee's. This

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week we are exploring the

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topic of being naive when

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it comes to your relationships,

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setting boundaries and holding on

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to your hopes and dreams.

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We're going to be deep

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diving into how the inner

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child is involved and how

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you can find a balance

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between healthy openness and optimism

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and wishful thinking. Okay

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David, so this topic

1:02

being naive and wishful

1:04

thinking, I guess it's

1:06

about the difference between

1:08

kind of beautiful healthy

1:10

innocence and naivety. It's

1:12

a really interesting subject

1:14

to talk about because

1:16

it definitely, it really encapsulates

1:19

why Working with the

1:21

inner child can be

1:23

so interesting and challenging

1:25

at the same time.

1:27

So the inner child,

1:29

that part of our mind,

1:31

we wanted to explore, to

1:33

be in awe, to look

1:35

at new things with an

1:37

innocence, but it can swing the

1:40

other way and this is

1:42

the thing about the inner

1:44

child Alex. It can move

1:46

from being this innocent,

1:48

open... encapsulating it's

1:50

hard to use the right words

1:52

and then you can swing to

1:55

the other side which is wanting

1:57

things away wants to everything has

1:59

to be his way wish for

2:01

thinking, wanting reality to flow in

2:03

the way that it wants it.

2:05

I've got a little saying about

2:07

the inner child. I always think

2:09

the inner child wants what it

2:12

wants, when it wants

2:14

it. So that's wish for

2:16

thinking. That's going against reality.

2:19

Being open and being in

2:21

awe means you're open to

2:24

explore reality and those are

2:26

the two sides of this

2:28

emotional pendulum. Yeah, because

2:31

the openness that comes

2:33

with looking at the

2:35

world through almost like

2:38

childlike innocent eyes means

2:40

we can connect deeply

2:42

to new things, new

2:44

people. and that we may

2:46

otherwise be closed off from

2:48

or dismissive about. And isn't

2:51

there a wonderful thing? Yeah.

2:53

It's like exciting and awesome

2:55

and you're seeing things fresh.

2:58

It is, you know, it's

3:00

very exciting, it's very joyful,

3:02

it means you're kind

3:04

of leaning more towards

3:06

hope and optimism rather

3:08

than cynicism, I guess,

3:10

but... The challenge, I guess,

3:13

is not allowing those inner

3:15

childlike qualities, because they're

3:17

very childlike qualities, those

3:20

inner childlike qualities of

3:22

our mind, to express

3:24

and be fulfilled and

3:27

feel all the green

3:29

light feelings that come

3:31

with that, whilst balancing

3:34

it with almost like a

3:36

sensableness or a wiseness. so

3:38

that we can still have

3:40

a sense of groundedness and

3:42

safety and that we're not

3:44

just getting carried off in

3:46

a way with the fairies.

3:48

Well I think what you're describing

3:50

there is what perhaps the life

3:52

lesson is on this, the woo

3:54

way. What is the woo way?

3:56

And the word you use is

3:58

a perfect world. to be grounded,

4:00

to be grounded, to allow yourself

4:03

to be in awe, to see

4:05

a sunset and to be in

4:07

awe of it, but not to

4:09

want the sun to set when

4:11

it's just right for you

4:13

at the time that you're

4:15

right and everything's ready. I

4:17

think the way that you

4:19

see this a lot in

4:21

my clients is this idea

4:23

of perfection. They want everything to

4:26

be perfect. They want themselves

4:28

to be perfect and they

4:30

want what they doing to

4:32

be perfect and they want

4:34

everybody to like them to

4:36

be like perfectly. And that's where

4:38

it swings too much into

4:40

almost like wishful thinking and

4:43

not grounded in reality.

4:45

Yeah, the difference between

4:47

innocence and naivety. as

4:49

you say, manifests through

4:51

perfectionism in terms of

4:53

wanting a perfect world

4:55

for them to be perfect

4:58

everyone else to behave perfectly

5:00

and outcomes always be perfect. The

5:02

way they want it, you see, that's

5:05

the key. Yeah. When it goes, swings

5:07

where it's got to be the way

5:09

that they think it should be.

5:12

Yeah, and then when things

5:14

aren't that way, so in

5:16

relationships with outcomes in terms

5:18

of... goals or intentions that

5:21

were working towards, then we

5:23

have this swinging of emotions

5:25

because we have the eyes when

5:27

things are going good and we

5:30

believe things are turning out perfectly

5:32

or we're wishing and hoping and

5:34

holding on to dreams of perfection

5:37

and then reality bites because things

5:39

life is not perfect people don't

5:41

behave how we want them to

5:43

behave and then they experience the

5:46

pendulum swinging and then the intense

5:48

red lights And then they start

5:50

to look around to blame, blame

5:53

themselves. I'm not good enough. It

5:55

never works out for me. I

5:57

can't cope. It's all over the

5:59

place. blaming other people if

6:02

it wasn't for them. I

6:04

can't deal with that. And

6:06

so this is when they

6:08

this they lose the naivety

6:10

and they get into being

6:13

in control. They wanted the

6:15

way that they wanted and

6:17

that's where it takes over.

6:19

And David have you observed

6:21

in your clients like patterns

6:24

patterns of thinking with this

6:26

naive thinking that maybe that

6:28

are carried through from childhood.

6:30

So in terms of relationship

6:33

dynamics or setting boundaries or

6:35

not setting boundaries? Is this

6:37

like repeating behaviour despite the

6:39

I guess the reality crashes?

6:41

Well this is why it's

6:44

important to do these life

6:46

lessons because as I say

6:48

in these life lessons you

6:50

can't change what you don't

6:53

understand and accept. So we

6:55

kind of try and give

6:57

you a broad brush. for

6:59

you to say, oh yeah,

7:01

I see that in me,

7:04

because you can see these

7:06

patterns and these are the

7:08

patterns. There are your beliefs,

7:10

your principles, your morals, and

7:12

they're buried deep down. You

7:15

may want to call it

7:17

your subconscious mind or your

7:19

ego. I prefer to call

7:21

it the inner child part

7:24

of your mind and this

7:26

part of your mind was

7:28

formed in childhood. normally around

7:30

the age of six or

7:32

nine years old, where you

7:35

were making really big judgments

7:37

on reality, on the way

7:39

the world should be. So

7:41

perhaps you were in a

7:43

dysfunctional family and you looked

7:46

at your friends and they

7:48

were having a much more

7:50

balanced and happy life and

7:52

then you started to bring

7:55

in your child life beliefs

7:57

about... the way things should

7:59

be about how people should

8:01

act toward you and so

8:03

this wishful thinking this control

8:06

wanting things the way that

8:08

you want them wings you

8:10

too far and almost you

8:12

lose that innocence that wonderful

8:14

part of you that is

8:17

childlike and there's nothing wrong

8:19

with being that child like

8:21

that you see something for

8:23

the first time and you

8:26

are in awe you're you're

8:28

taking away I can remember

8:30

when we were traveling months

8:32

and we saw a sunset

8:34

in India you remember that

8:37

and it was like It

8:39

was like the first time

8:41

you'd seen it. It was

8:43

just so amazing. And the

8:46

only, well, words don't describe

8:48

it. You were just in

8:50

all like you were seeing

8:52

it for the first time.

8:54

And you don't want to

8:57

lose that, but you don't

8:59

want to be stuck in

9:01

a pendulum swinging from one

9:03

side to the other. I

9:05

think David, the problem comes

9:08

more with like... relationships or

9:10

with stuff to do with

9:12

finances or career, you know,

9:14

adult stuff, that it's wonderful

9:17

to be encouraging the inner

9:19

child to fully absorb, be

9:21

open, express, you know, the

9:23

wonders of nature and the

9:25

creative time and being playful

9:28

and having time out and

9:30

doing things which are childlike

9:32

but beautiful. But when it

9:34

comes to adulting stuff, like

9:36

relationships, career stuff, health stuff,

9:39

finance stuff, we need to,

9:41

we can't let that innocent

9:43

in a child take the

9:45

lead. And it's when we

9:48

don't put the brakes on

9:50

and we don't let the

9:52

adult. self the wiser self

9:54

the more mature self the

9:56

spiritual self the strength take

9:59

the lead that's when we

10:01

hit problems because it's like

10:03

we're then we're interacting with

10:05

the adult world you know,

10:07

serious adult stuff which has

10:10

to be navigated carefully and

10:12

intricately. And we are putting

10:14

into play our inner child

10:16

who is not the best

10:19

part of our psyche to

10:21

deal with the adult stuff.

10:23

Absolutely. And that goes back

10:25

to what you said at

10:27

the beginning. Where are you

10:30

grounded? You see, so the

10:32

inner child can be in

10:34

awe. can have these fanciful

10:36

ideas, but as Alex just

10:39

explained, you can't allow that

10:41

or you can't be grounded

10:43

in that. Alex says in

10:45

your adult stuff, I would

10:47

go one step further in

10:50

your spirituality, in that inner

10:52

wisdom, that inner knowing and

10:54

that should be where the

10:56

grounding is. So where do

10:58

you find the balance between

11:01

this naivety and this against

11:03

reality and wishful thinking that

11:05

will never happen? The woo

11:07

way is to find the

11:10

balance in connecting. is with

11:12

your spirituality. And that spirituality

11:14

will always know how to

11:16

navigate that gentle flow in

11:18

your life. And really, that's

11:21

what Wuay means being in

11:23

your flow. In our model,

11:25

we have a kind of

11:27

what we call a shentist.

11:29

How do we know? And

11:32

always think, what would I

11:34

say to my physical child?

11:37

when they came to me

11:39

and says, you know what

11:41

dad? Things should work out

11:43

the way that I want

11:45

them to. And if they

11:47

don't, I'm going to really

11:49

kick off. I'm going to

11:51

have a temper tantrum. What

11:53

would we say to that

11:55

child? See, we always know

11:57

the right answers. And that's

11:59

your shed talking, that you're

12:01

in and knowing, you may

12:03

know it as different words,

12:05

good feeling, intuition, in and

12:07

knowing, in a wisdom, but

12:10

that's that shed. And David,

12:12

I'm wondering, so what you're

12:14

saying here is we, when

12:16

it comes to more serious

12:18

adulting stuff, we should acknowledge

12:20

the inner child's desires and

12:22

say, well, you know, I

12:24

acknowledge this, but... We just

12:26

have to be a little

12:28

bit more careful here. The

12:30

adult part of us needs

12:32

to step in and take

12:34

the lead on this. This

12:36

is very important Alex because

12:38

what a lot of my

12:40

clients do. They either try

12:42

and shut down the in

12:44

being a child and locked

12:46

them away and don't let

12:49

them express themselves and have

12:51

that sense of awe. Yeah.

12:53

Or they ignore them completely

12:55

and they don't listen. They

12:57

shut them or they avoid

12:59

them. And this part of

13:01

you that we call the

13:03

inner child is not your

13:05

enemy. It's not somebody like

13:07

the devil sitting on your

13:09

shoulder. It's a wonderful part

13:11

of you. that we have

13:13

to develop and bring into

13:15

a oneness. So instead of

13:17

having two parts of you,

13:19

the inner child and the

13:21

adult self, in a tug-of-war,

13:23

fighting each other, we want

13:25

to bring them together with

13:27

compassion, with love, with kindness.

13:30

And that's the new way

13:32

of this lesson. That's the

13:34

learning. Acknowledge. understand the naivety

13:36

and the wishful thinkingness and

13:38

we're using I want to

13:40

be perfect I want everything

13:42

to work out the way

13:44

I wanted to see those

13:46

two extremes and then find

13:48

that sheen for yourself. Because

13:50

I'm wondering whether you know

13:52

in relationships in work in

13:54

you know creativity and work

13:56

in finance matters and health

13:58

matters that there is a

14:00

part for the inner challenge

14:02

and play because we don't

14:04

want to squeeze out fun,

14:06

lightness, delightfulness, inquisitiveness, playfulness, a

14:09

bit of craziness. We don't

14:11

want to squeeze that out.

14:13

So we need to create

14:15

space within all of those

14:17

adult aspects of our lives

14:19

for the inner child to

14:21

express. But that needs to

14:23

be balanced with, I guess,

14:25

what I would call sensible

14:27

thinking or logic. where we

14:29

then switch to the adult

14:31

self, the sheen, the wise

14:33

self, to check things, to

14:35

verify things, to look for,

14:37

you know, to, as you

14:39

say, do the sheen test.

14:41

And then it's about the

14:43

interplay between those two. So

14:45

we need to give the

14:48

inner child permission to have

14:50

hopes, dreams, be playful, silly.

14:52

But we then need to

14:54

also put in time to

14:56

be sensible, logical to verify

14:58

stuff. And I guess that's

15:00

why we do these videos

15:02

and this live lesson, that

15:04

for you to sit down

15:06

and say, what part of

15:08

this teaching applies to you,

15:10

if it does, do you

15:12

see these two parts of

15:14

you? and how are you

15:16

dealing with it? And this

15:18

is really the meditation. And

15:20

we kind of go right

15:22

back to the beginning to

15:24

what Alex said. Where are

15:26

you grounding yourself? Where are

15:29

your foundations? I believe they

15:31

should be based on truth,

15:33

honesty, and integrity. I say

15:35

it on every video. Does

15:37

that mean you can't have

15:39

fun? No, of course it

15:41

means you can have fun.

15:43

Does that mean you can't

15:45

go into the park and

15:47

kick some leaves? No, of

15:49

course it doesn't. You can

15:51

enjoy yourself, but you're not

15:53

grounded in that flinging from

15:55

one side to the other,

15:57

having a temper tantrum when

15:59

things don't go right, you

16:01

know, always got your head

16:03

in the clouds. There has

16:05

to be a balance. and

16:08

this is the Wuay, this

16:10

is this life lesson and

16:12

this is what I would

16:14

call spirituality. You are awesome.

16:16

Never doubt yourself. You having

16:18

age value and worth. Never

16:20

doubt that. That is your

16:22

birthright and ground yourself in

16:24

that and then please express

16:26

your creativity, your joy, your

16:28

fun. Go and do some...

16:30

mad things and enjoy it.

16:32

But don't let your life

16:34

be consumed by it. Yeah,

16:36

wonderful. And for me, David,

16:38

I think the keywords here

16:40

are appropriateness and discernment and

16:42

allowing the adult part of

16:44

our mind to be discerning

16:47

as to what is appropriate,

16:49

whether it's appropriate for the

16:51

inner child to play. freely

16:53

and have fun and to

16:55

express, or whether it's time

16:57

for the wiser, intuitive, spiritual

16:59

part of us to take

17:01

the lead on what's going

17:03

on in our lives. Well,

17:05

in Taoism, that translation in

17:07

the we call discernment is

17:09

very important, because discernment means

17:11

that you are in control,

17:13

you are accountable. you are

17:15

making choices. You embrace all

17:17

these different characteristics of you

17:19

which make you unique. There

17:21

is no one in the

17:23

universe like you and all

17:25

of these different aspects of

17:28

your character are amazing. And

17:30

now with that discernment you

17:32

can use them appropriately when

17:34

the time is right for

17:36

you. But what this does,

17:38

it means that you're in

17:40

control. You're in control and

17:42

this is the most important

17:44

teaching of this model and

17:46

this woo-wey wisdom that you're

17:48

sharing with us. Finding that

17:50

flow. If you think about

17:52

the pendulum, we don't look

17:54

for the extremes. for that

17:56

center. where the pendulum gently

17:58

sways and that's being in

18:00

your flow. Wonderful. Thank you

18:02

David. Well I really really

18:04

hope you have enjoyed this

18:07

teaching. Please do let us

18:09

know if it resonates with

18:11

you. If you've struggled with

18:13

these issues, if you've dealt

18:15

with them and what has

18:17

worked for you, we'd absolutely

18:19

love to hear from you.

18:21

David works every week with

18:23

clients all over the world

18:25

on exactly these sort of

18:27

inner child topics. If you'd

18:29

like to learn more about

18:31

David... David's one-to-one consultations, please

18:33

check out the link in

18:35

the show notes. David also

18:37

now writes a weekly free

18:39

blog on sub stack and

18:41

I will put a link

18:43

to that in the notes

18:46

as well so you can

18:48

check out and get more

18:50

weekly inspiration. Thank you so

18:52

much for listening to this

18:54

week's Wowai Wisdom Life lesson.

18:56

You can subscribe wherever you

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like to work one to

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one with David, he supports

19:08

clients all over the world

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You can learn more about

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19:35

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