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Oh.

2:14

and welcome to a new series

2:16

of family stores, the podcast written

2:18

by you, our listeners. This week's

2:21

family stories take us from an

2:23

enduring friendship between a prison of

2:25

war and a member of the

2:27

land army to a rare wartime

2:29

sighting of Mahatma Gandhi and then

2:31

back to the Blitz and the

2:33

tale of someone's missing fingers. We

2:35

begin this week with the story

2:38

from Karl Walles. My mother was

2:40

14. in 1944 and was in

2:42

the land army living in West

2:44

Darby in Liverpool. She was working

2:46

in a field and in the

2:48

next field there were German POWs

2:50

working the land. One day my

2:53

mother fell into a bog while

2:55

on the field and was quickly

2:57

sinking up to her waist. She

2:59

was crying out for help. When

3:01

a POW in the next field

3:03

heard her cries he immediately risked

3:05

being shot and ran to her

3:07

aid. Using his spade he passed

3:10

it to her and she grabbed

3:12

the handle. He pulled her from

3:14

the bog. After that, he was

3:16

allowed out of the camp every

3:18

week and went to her house

3:20

to have Sunday dinner with our

3:22

family. He made a jewelry box

3:24

for her, which she kept until

3:27

her death. I think my sister

3:29

has it now. On the day

3:31

the POWs were removed and sent

3:33

for repatriation, the convoy went down

3:35

the road where my mother lived.

3:37

The whole convoy came to a

3:39

halt, whilst he was allowed out

3:41

to go and say goodbye. That

3:44

was the last time. they ever

3:46

saw each other. My brother Robert

3:48

is named after him and that

3:50

was from Carl Walls. Our next

3:52

story is from William Boyton. My

3:54

granddad Dennis joined the role. Navy

3:56

in the early 1940s and was

3:58

posted on a Corvette to counter

4:01

Japanese submarine operations in the Indian

4:03

Ocean. He was lucky enough to

4:05

get ashore in India a number

4:07

of times. He was used to

4:09

the green fields of Essex and

4:11

said he couldn't believe how hot

4:13

and dry it was. One day

4:15

he was sitting at a train

4:18

station on the platform, somewhere in

4:20

South-East India. He was with one

4:22

of his officers and was reading

4:24

his book. He noticed a lot

4:26

of people immediately in front of

4:28

him following a man with glasses

4:30

on and wearing some sort of

4:32

robe. He recalled them laying petals

4:35

in front of this man. He

4:37

thought nothing of it at the

4:39

time and kept on reading his

4:41

book. His officer turned to him

4:43

and said, Do you see who

4:45

that was? Grandad replied that he

4:47

had not. His officer smiled and

4:50

said that it was Gandy. My

4:52

grandad heard of him in the

4:54

newspapers, but still thought nothing of

4:56

it. We were discussing Gandy in

4:58

the mid-2000s, and my grandadid, proud

5:00

it recounted, recounted, recounted, recounted, I

5:02

saw him in person. He seemed

5:04

very pleased he did. Granddad Dennis

5:07

passed away in 2011 and that

5:09

was from William Boyton. Our next

5:11

story is from Steve Callahan. My

5:13

grandfather grew up in a tiny

5:15

coal mining town in central Pennsylvania,

5:17

one of many siblings in a

5:19

large Irish Catholic family. When he

5:21

became old enough to join the

5:24

army in 1943, he was sent

5:26

to New Orleans for his initial

5:28

training, likely the first time he

5:30

had ever left the state. His

5:32

girlfriend at the time, also from

5:34

that same small town, and from

5:36

a large Catholic family, agreed to

5:38

marry him while he was in

5:41

training. Like him, she had never

5:43

traveled far. She told her mom

5:45

she was going to stay with

5:47

friends, but actually boarded an overnight

5:49

train and made her way to

5:51

New Orleans to marry my grandfather.

5:53

It's hard today to really understand

5:55

how brave it was to travel

5:58

alone as a young... woman to

6:00

a faraway city in the deep

6:02

south. Shortly before he departed

6:04

for Europe, my grandmother gave him

6:06

a picture of herself. He carried

6:08

that picture with him throughout the war.

6:10

I remember one night when I was

6:12

home from college in the 1990s. He and

6:14

I sat on our back deck drinking some

6:17

beers. He told me that when he was

6:19

in the UK, when he could get leave,

6:21

he liked to visit a local pub,

6:23

but he'd always take a Canadian with him

6:25

because they were great in a fight that

6:27

would inevitably break out. We

6:29

believe that he served as a firefighter

6:32

and was likely attached to some British

6:34

unit. We know he landed at Normandy

6:36

on D-plus-1 and then went on

6:38

to Paris, the Arden, crossed the

6:40

Rhine close to Bon and was

6:42

eventually stationed in both Frankfurt and

6:44

Munich. By the time he was stationed

6:46

in Munich, he had been gone for

6:48

several years and like other soldiers hadn't

6:50

seen his brothers or knew where they

6:52

were or what had happened to them. One

6:55

day, while walking down the street,

6:57

he randomly bumped into his brother

6:59

Aloysius. It happened that an American

7:01

reporter was nearby, who snapped a picture

7:03

of the two brothers, meeting for the

7:06

first time in years. At the end of the

7:08

war, my grandfather was discharged and

7:10

returned to his childhood sweetheart that

7:13

he'd married years before. Together, they

7:15

lived in that same small town for

7:17

the rest of their lives, rarely apart.

7:19

They raised seven children together. and both

7:22

died within only a few years of

7:24

each other in their 90s. Today, amongst

7:26

our most prized possessions are

7:29

two photographs, a weather-beaten

7:31

picture of a young girl who made her

7:33

way to New Orleans to marry the man

7:35

she loved. And another of two

7:37

brothers, both in military uniforms with

7:39

rifles slung over their shoulders,

7:41

in a world very different from

7:43

that small town, in Pennsylvania.

7:46

And that was from Steve Callan.

7:50

I'm David Orleshoger, historian

7:53

and broadcaster. And I'm Sarah

7:55

Churchwell, author, journalist, and academic.

7:58

And together, we are hosts. of

8:00

Goldhanger's latest podcast, Journey Through Time.

8:02

We're going to be looking at

8:04

hidden social histories behind famous chapters

8:06

from the past. Asking what it was

8:09

like to have lived through prohibition or to

8:11

have been there on the ground during the

8:13

Great Fire of London, we'll be uncovering all

8:15

of that. And we'll have characters

8:17

and stories that have been totally

8:19

forgotten, but shouldn't have been. This

8:21

week, we're looking at a terror

8:24

attack that shocked New York. that

8:26

cost American lives, caused millions of

8:28

dollars of damage to buildings across

8:30

Manhattan, that led to the establishment

8:32

of new security agencies, and that

8:34

helped push the United States towards

8:36

war. But it's not. 9-11. This

8:38

is the Black Tom explosion of

8:40

1916, the story of a massive

8:42

sabotage campaign as Germany made a

8:44

desperate effort to keep America from

8:46

helping the allies during the First

8:48

World War. And the cast of

8:51

characters for this story involves Playboy

8:53

diplomats, there's a stranded sailor, an

8:55

opera singer who's managing a brothel

8:58

in New York, and there's a

9:00

hapless spy who leaves secret documents

9:02

on a train. So join us

9:04

on journey through time and hear

9:07

a clip from the Black Tom

9:09

story at the end of

9:11

this episode. Our next

9:13

story is from Andy

9:15

Fagence. My next story

9:18

is from Andy Fagence.

9:21

My grandfather, Albert Frederick's

9:24

Fagens, was born in

9:26

Guilford Surrey and grew

9:28

up nearby with his

9:30

parents and sister Alice.

9:33

Before the war he was a gardener

9:35

for a family that owned a large

9:37

house nearby, but in 1939 Albert joined

9:39

the local ARP and worked in

9:41

the Guilford Control Room. In his spare

9:43

time he enjoyed drawing caricatures

9:46

and pictures of some personalities

9:48

of the time, including Hitler,

9:50

using Indian ink. We are lucky

9:52

to still have a book of these in

9:54

our family's possession. Bird didn't want

9:56

to join the army, so on

9:58

January 14th, 1940... he enlisted

10:01

in the REF at

10:03

REF Cardington, Bedfordshire. On April

10:05

10th, 1941, their second child was

10:07

born, a boy who Bert and

10:10

Rose struggled to decide on a name

10:12

for. While deliberating while

10:14

listening to the radio over the

10:16

airways came, this is the BBC

10:18

News read by Alvar Liddell, and so

10:21

the baby boy, my father, was

10:23

named Alvar. In May, 1941, Bert

10:25

trained as an aircraft hand and

10:28

ground gunner. In October, He is

10:30

promoted to Air Craftmen first

10:32

class and then to leading

10:34

aircraftmen in December. In February

10:36

1942, he is posted to join

10:38

615 County of Surrey Squadron, who

10:40

at this time were to be sent to

10:42

India with their hurricane twos. On arrival,

10:44

the squadron was stationed at

10:46

R.E.F. Jessore, before moving to R.E.F.

10:49

Faney and Alapur in Bengal, as

10:51

well as moving nearer to the

10:53

Burma front to support operations there,

10:55

before moving back again to India.

10:57

During this time in India, Bert had

11:00

spells of being unwell due to the

11:02

harsh conditions. In September 1943, he

11:04

was admitted to the number 47

11:06

General Hospital in Calcutta, suffering from

11:09

dysentery and sprew. Rose was informed

11:11

of this, and was told to expect

11:13

him to be repatriated back to England

11:15

to recover. One morning, Rose had

11:17

a knock on the door on unopening,

11:19

was handed a telegram. She was fully

11:22

expecting to find out when Bert would

11:24

return home to England, when she was stunned

11:26

to read the words. We regret to

11:28

inform you that your husband,

11:30

1-225-904-L-A-C Albert Fagence died of

11:33

dysentery and sprew, at number

11:35

47, General Hospital India, on

11:37

the 16th of September, 1943.

11:40

My grandmother Rose was very

11:42

fortunate to be able to

11:44

visit Bert's grave in Buonapur,

11:46

Commonwealth War Grey Cemetery in

11:48

Calcutta, as part of the

11:50

Royal British Legion War Windows

11:53

pilgrimage scheme, in the late

11:55

1980. One can only imagine her thoughts,

11:57

like the ceremony there after all those

11:59

years. And that was

12:02

from Andy Fagan's. Our

12:04

next story comes from

12:07

Miles Bing. My mum,

12:09

Valerie, recently died. And

12:12

I found her written

12:14

manuscript a memoir of

12:16

growing up in London

12:19

during the war. It's

12:21

just recently been published

12:24

as a memoir called London

12:27

Can Take It. Anyway, she

12:29

writes, A vivid memory from school at

12:31

that time was when we were all

12:33

called together and a young boy wearing

12:35

a different school uniform was paraded in

12:37

front of us. They revealed he was from

12:40

the Tottenham area and he looked a

12:42

bit snively with fresh cut marks running

12:44

up his face. It was clear that he

12:46

didn't very much want to be there,

12:48

particularly when a teacher on the low

12:50

stage pulled up his arm to reveal

12:53

a freshly bandaged hand with what looked

12:55

like. Could it be? Some missing fingers.

12:57

There was a big speech made warning

13:00

those assembled about how dangerous and

13:02

stupid it was to go near

13:04

or pick up unexploded munitions. Of

13:06

particular concern were the small

13:08

hand-sized incendiary devices which were

13:10

scattered in the thousands every

13:12

night by our airborne arsonist

13:14

friends, designed to punch through

13:16

roofs and set fire to people's

13:18

lofts. Many of these fell in trees

13:21

and bushes, some not going off at all,

13:23

and others were on timer fuses. At

13:25

school, we had buckets of sand that

13:27

were meant to be thrown over anything

13:29

that might drop near us. Nothing very

13:32

sophisticated. After so many months of

13:34

suffering, the Blitz had created bands

13:36

of feral children, usually boys, sneaking

13:38

out at night and forming little

13:40

gangs, so that they could follow

13:43

the ARP and fire wardens to

13:45

precisely where the incendiaries had fallen.

13:47

It was all the talk at the playground.

13:49

Collecting shrapnel was one thing, but

13:52

some of the noughtiest boys... would take

13:54

the heads off the incendiary devices, tip

13:56

out the magnesium and then set the

13:58

contents alight in buckets. Every night,

14:00

could be bonfire night. We'd been

14:03

warned so many times about such

14:05

things, and I suppose the school

14:07

was trying to use shock tactics

14:09

to make their point. I was

14:11

still quite young and disturbed by

14:14

the image of the bandaged boy

14:16

being manhandled off the stage, already

14:18

being taken away, presumably to repeat

14:20

the same exercise at the next

14:22

school. I couldn't fathom why some

14:25

boys would actually choose to be

14:27

outside during an active raid, or

14:29

to set off explosives. However, as

14:31

we dispersed back to class, the

14:34

boys behind me whispered excitedly to

14:36

each other, and I heard one

14:38

of them say, well, it's only

14:40

a couple of fingers. Our last

14:42

story comes from Elliot Radniki. The

14:45

vast majority of my family was

14:47

murdered in the Holocaust. My grandparents

14:49

left a destitute Europe in their

14:51

late teens. and only a small

14:54

handful of their large families survived

14:56

the concentration camps. My step-grandmother, or

14:58

Bubby in Yiddish as we called

15:00

her, married my paternal grandfather in

15:02

1979. She had known my family

15:05

for decades, previously having lived in

15:07

their tight-knit Jewish community in Brooklyn,

15:09

New York. She even told me

15:11

stories of pushing my father and

15:13

uncle around in a preambulator when

15:16

they were babies. She fitted into

15:18

our family seamlessly and over the

15:20

years would share stories of her

15:22

escape from Auschwitz. by hiding inside

15:25

the wing of an airplane that

15:27

was being built before she was

15:29

tattooed. She even served as a

15:31

sort of matriarch of the family

15:33

and for me as a focal

15:36

point for a high school paper

15:38

I wrote about my Holocaust story.

15:40

She died about 15 years ago.

15:42

Then about six years ago a

15:44

German journalist reached out to my

15:47

uncle to discuss a woman who'd

15:49

been searching for her mother. The

15:51

journalist had written several pieces about

15:53

her, her grandparents who raised her

15:56

and her unknown mother. He had

15:58

uncovered that her lost mother. was

16:00

my Bubby, who had died a

16:02

few years prior. My father and

16:04

my uncle refused to ignore the

16:07

letter and was written in German

16:09

and neither had little understanding of

16:11

what it said. Eventually I convinced

16:13

them to share it with me.

16:16

It turns out my Bubby, the

16:18

woman who spoke Yiddish, knew more

16:20

about Judaism than many members of

16:22

our family who loved us and

16:24

was a beloved member of the

16:27

family, was a Nazi. Bubby had

16:29

married a German man in her

16:31

early 20s. Her husband became a

16:33

soldier and they both became members

16:35

of the Nazi party. and were

16:38

even photograph wearing uniforms and the

16:40

dreaded red armband. The next part

16:42

of the story is quite confusing.

16:44

One night, while her husband was

16:47

off fighting, she had gone to

16:49

see a film in the local

16:51

cinema. While there, her town was

16:53

bombed. From what we understand, I

16:55

believe she fought her parents who

16:58

were watching her daughter, and her

17:00

daughter were killed. And what I

17:02

can only imagine was an overwhelming

17:04

sense of utter despair. She must

17:06

have realized there was no life

17:09

for her in her small German

17:11

town. and decided to literally start

17:13

a new life. She somehow became

17:15

a refugee and claimed that she

17:18

was a displaced Jew and eventually

17:20

arrived in New York and integrated

17:22

seamlessly into Jewish culture in America.

17:24

The realisation of my Bubby's past

17:26

was incomprehensible to my father and

17:29

uncle. It was an existential crisis

17:31

of beliefs. She was loving and

17:33

supporting to us but also had

17:35

some role in the slaughter of

17:38

our family. These recriminations translated into

17:40

a refusal to help an unfortunate

17:42

lost woman who just wanted information

17:44

about her mother. As for my

17:46

Bubby, I am torn. I believe

17:49

she thought her family had perished

17:51

and decided to move on from

17:53

a morally bankrupt and evil pass

17:55

that had clearly been revealed as

17:57

a malignant disease on humanity. But

18:00

my God, how do you walk

18:02

away without confirming with certainty your

18:04

mother, father, and young daughter are

18:06

truly dead? That's all for this

18:09

episode. If you've got a family

18:11

story, you'd like to be considered

18:13

for the show. Please email it

18:15

too. We have Ways podcast. Please

18:17

label the email family's stories so

18:20

that we don't miss it. Thanks

18:22

for listening and goodbye. And

18:25

gradually what you see in this

18:27

period is mounting concern over what

18:29

became called hyphenate Americans, this idea

18:31

that foreign immigrant communities had divided

18:33

allegiances. And so there are increasing

18:35

demands for effectively loyalty tests. And

18:37

Wilson gives a very famous speech

18:39

in which he uses a famous

18:41

phrase, and that's a phrase that

18:43

you have spent a long time

18:46

studying Sarah. And that is to

18:48

ask whether these Americans who have

18:50

loyalties to other nations will, when

18:52

it comes down to it, whether

18:54

they will put America first. And

18:56

that's the phrase, right? America first.

18:58

It is a phrase that was

19:00

first popularized in this context in

19:02

1915, a year before Black Tom,

19:04

in a speech that Wilson gave

19:06

addressing these mounting concerns about hyphenate

19:08

Americans, about whether they were real

19:11

Americans or not. And the way

19:13

that Wilson put it was he

19:15

said, he demanded that immigrant communities

19:17

stand up and state explicitly whether,

19:19

he said, is it America first

19:21

or is it not? And at

19:23

that point, America first became an

19:25

incredibly popular phrase. It basically dominates

19:27

American political discourse for the next

19:29

decade. Then it kind of subsided,

19:31

and then it has a resurgence

19:34

around World War II when it

19:36

was used to talk about whether

19:38

America should enter the Second World

19:40

War. And then it went into

19:42

abeyance for a long time until

19:44

it made a dramatic reappearance in

19:46

the 21st century, which listeners will

19:48

be familiar with. If you want

19:50

to hear the full episode, listen

19:52

to Journey Through Time, wherever you

19:54

get your podcasts.