0:23

Well, Well, hello again,

0:25

everybody, and welcome back to X -Files

0:27

Diaries. I'm Annie. I'm Jen. And

0:29

we know that we're headed into

0:31

the holidays. We've got some very

0:33

exciting stuff coming up for you

0:35

guys next year. But in the

0:37

meantime, we're going to sort of,

0:39

I think, Jen, this has become

0:41

kind of a yearly ritual for

0:43

us to a tradition, I think.

0:46

Yeah, like a tradition, I like

0:48

it. It's our Christmas tradition is

0:50

to rerun our episode of How

0:52

the Ghosts Stole Christmas. which

0:54

which I believe we first recorded in,

0:56

what was that? The 2019 or something,

0:58

Jen? probably like that. Yeah, it's been

1:00

a few years. So, you know, enjoy

1:03

it again. If you've heard it multiple

1:05

times, or if you're a new listener

1:07

and you haven't heard it, you know,

1:09

enjoy it for the first time. It's

1:11

fun. It's, uh, it's for the holiday

1:13

season. Yeah. Hey,

1:18

Hey Jen, we are going

1:20

do something Christmasy. Christmas time.

1:23

We're going do something as

1:25

Christmassy as the X -Files gets,

1:27

wouldn't you say? Absolutely. this

1:29

is Christmas X -File style,

1:32

and I like it. This

1:34

week we're gonna be talking

1:36

about the classic How the

1:38

Ghost Stole Christmas. Woo! This

1:40

is season six, episode six,

1:42

written and directed by the

1:44

one and only Chris Carter.

1:46

It felt to me kind of like

1:49

a bad blood type episode in that

1:51

you can probably appreciate it more

1:53

if you're a fan and you kind

1:55

of understand the dynamic, the Mulder -Skully

1:57

dynamic, do you kind of agree

1:59

with that? I mean it doesn't quite sink in

2:01

way it would sink in with us because

2:03

we know what is to come and

2:05

what has come before and all of the

2:07

little minuscule details about their relationship minuscule about

2:10

their a that's a very interesting point

2:12

I mean the a think the episode plays on a couple

2:14

of different levels I think the episode plays

2:16

of, couple of very surface level, it

2:18

can just be like this

2:20

cool, haunted, It can just be like this cool

2:22

In fact, episode. In fact, I love love

2:25

talking about my tattoo, so I'll just throw

2:27

in a brief tattoo story. When I was

2:29

getting my tattoo of my dog's paw, paw.

2:31

My my tattoo artist was a big fan,

2:33

not not on our level of X -Files fandom.

2:35

He didn't interact with the fandom, but

2:37

he loved watching the show. with the fandom, but he

2:39

been a long time since the watched many

2:41

episodes. time And one of the few episodes

2:43

he could remember off the top of his

2:45

head. of the few was this. because

2:47

remember off the top of his but

2:49

he described it as it was

2:51

he described it episode with Ed Asner

2:53

in it. with Ed Asner in it. He remembered

2:55

it as Halloween episode, but he

2:57

remembered he Asner. So I think

3:00

that Ed Asner and Lily Ed Asner

3:02

of make it. kind little

3:04

bit more, of give it

3:06

a broader appeal to folks that

3:08

appeal to folks fans. Yeah. hardcore fans. So

3:10

a lot about about in this. in

3:12

this. There's a lot of which

3:15

I find really which I find really and

3:17

and fascinating about Mulder and Scully as individuals

3:19

as well as their relationship. And

3:21

if you're not like a hardcore

3:23

fan, that may not really grab

3:25

you, I but I think there's

3:28

probably enough sort of spooky, scary,

3:30

funny stuff going on that would

3:32

probably keep you going anyway although some

3:34

people. and their and their husbands might walk

3:36

away and say, that was just weird. no I mean I

3:38

don't mean, that he not that he didn't like it.

3:40

I think he was just kind of kind of

3:42

really quite sure what to make of it. make of

3:44

the hell was that? Yeah, because it is,

3:46

and I mean, we'll get to this when we

3:48

get to the actual mechanics of what's going

3:50

on. By the end of it, it was just

3:53

like. like What? Like he really thought the shot

3:55

scully and then he was like... Yeah, yeah. Which I mean, I feel

3:57

I feel like the first time I

3:59

watched this first few times I this, took

4:01

me a while to sort of

4:03

figure out exactly what was going on

4:05

what I still don't know who knows I still

4:07

don't know entirely sure not entirely sure. sure It's

4:09

kind of a complicated, it is kind kind

4:11

of a complicated plot and a complicated

4:14

ending. When we were putting together

4:16

our sort of of of what we

4:18

wanted to talk about tonight, tonight I added what

4:20

exactly is going what exactly is going on

4:22

there with the whole scene with

4:24

the shootings and what follows? I mean yeah,

4:26

I mean, this is, this this, this

4:29

episode many times. It's, it's one

4:31

of my favorites. but I but I still,

4:33

I kind of get a little a little

4:35

confused about who knows what knows doing what

4:37

at each moment, at - We can break

4:39

it down. We can break it down.

4:41

down. Yeah, we'll break it down. If you're

4:43

not paying close attention, not then you would

4:45

definitely be confused, I think, as a

4:48

viewer. So it is a little confusing, I think,

4:50

as a viewer. So I think a once you kind

4:52

of catch on, you can get the

4:54

general gist of it for sure. you kind of

4:56

I think it's really interesting. It's an interesting

4:58

way that it played out. it possible

5:00

that Chris Carter could have clarified it? I

5:02

don't know, he could have, I suppose,

5:04

but then you run into a possibility of

5:06

it just being kind of and a

5:08

bit too obvious. clarified it? It's a a little subtle.

5:10

I I think that's yeah I think that's par

5:12

for the part the show. course for I think

5:14

about Chris Carter and the X -Files, I

5:16

always think of, and the you've seen Mary

5:18

Poppins, right? if you've seen you've seen not

5:20

seen Mary right you serious? I am

5:23

outing you. I thought that was gonna

5:25

be an easy that was Okay, well, there's

5:27

a point. yes okay mean, I know it

5:29

very well, just from I I'm alive in

5:31

from because I'm alive well, there's a part in

5:33

the movie where she says. where she says

5:35

there's something you need to know about me. about me I

5:37

don't explain anything. And And every time I

5:40

see that movie and I hear that

5:42

line, Chris makes me think of Chris

5:44

Carter because it's very much the case like he's

5:46

case. I'm like so I'm like, it's like it's like it's like

5:48

the tagline and goolly when it's like you see it's like,

5:50

you see what I want you to

5:52

see. his show you true, I it's his show, to

5:55

you know what I mean? He gets

5:57

to explain it as much as much as

5:59

he wants. to. Yeah, as much or as much as

6:01

little. he Or as little. lot. He demands a a

6:03

lot of the audience. He He really to

6:05

really get get everything, a he demands a lot.

6:07

mean hey that's I mean, hey, that's why

6:09

we're 26 and know, year talking still show the show,

6:11

because a lot to it there's a lot to

6:14

it and a lot of levels to it.

6:16

And that's, that's why I love the

6:18

show. Same. Totally agreed. I mean it I mean, it it

6:20

would be, it would not be as

6:22

fun to discuss if there weren't these things

6:24

to to. to try and and figure out for

6:26

years and years and years. So. and years. Yeah,

6:28

I think Figuring stuff out. Yeah, exactly. Do you want to get

6:30

you want to get into the

6:33

plot of the actual story, or did you want to

6:35

talk or did you want to talk

6:37

about Lily and Ed Asner first? first? talk, maybe

6:39

we'll talk, maybe we'll talk about Ed first. Okay.

6:41

Once we get into the plot, we get into the

6:43

plot, in take us in all kinds

6:45

of really cool directions. Right. Lily

6:47

Tomlin and Ed Asner were, you know, very

6:49

know, very big names. Even

6:51

today, you know, would be considered

6:53

big names. And certainly back

6:55

then. certainly back very big names. big

6:57

names. And not just big names,

6:59

but played the parts so, so well. I so

7:02

well. them. I I love them. I

7:04

love them and anything they've done outside

7:06

of the X -Files as well. I

7:08

just think they're both great actors. both

7:11

great actors. I think they definitely

7:13

go a long way

7:15

to making this episode because

7:17

the whole episode is

7:19

just episode is just Mulder and and and

7:21

So So need to have

7:23

strong actors to to kind of

7:25

hold up that side of the story. I

7:27

think I think they're both amazing. Yeah, I

7:29

I agree. And I think too that the idea

7:31

that it's only the four of them,

7:33

this entire episode helps with a little little

7:36

bit with it it as simple as possible

7:38

because you have a lot of complex

7:40

stuff going on, obviously, in this episode.

7:42

obviously I feel like adding I feel like anything

7:44

else, even more scenes that don't take

7:46

place in the house, in ones that ones

7:48

that and end the episode are just

7:51

scenes with Mulder and Scully talking. It's

7:53

all just talking, like it's not necessarily all

7:55

a ton of action, there's not a

7:57

lot necessarily like a ton of A lot lot of

7:59

exposition or... It's just it's just characters

8:01

talking in rooms and I mean I

8:03

feel like a lot of the

8:05

time They don't really have a chance

8:07

to do that on this show

8:09

very often. Yeah, that's right Yeah, and

8:11

they don't I mean so I just

8:13

I really appreciate that Particularly and

8:15

they like you said they grabbed the

8:17

really two great actors that they knew

8:19

could carry it when they had

8:21

to Lily Tomlin and Ed playing Lida

8:23

and Maurice and Yeah, and yeah, I

8:26

mean they're great. It's yeah Can

8:28

I just pick up on the point

8:30

you just made about sort of how

8:32

it's a relatively contained episode Which

8:34

is part of what I love about

8:36

it. I think I mean I love

8:38

plays and I love talky kind

8:40

of stuff so this is just right

8:42

up my alley and I think that

8:44

the episode aside from the very

8:46

final scene. I think it kind of

8:48

unfolds in real time if I'm not

8:50

mistaken Yeah, it feels like it does

8:52

at least. Yeah, and so I

8:55

was wondering I You know this terminology

8:57

better than I do with this sort

8:59

of qualify as what is in

9:01

the TV world called a bottle episode

9:03

Which is probably defined as like an

9:05

episode contained to kind of one

9:07

set and One storyline

9:09

it's sort of a play like kind of

9:11

contained episode Would you say that this falls

9:13

into that category? I mean I actually don't

9:15

know that term because I don't work in

9:17

life in live -action, but it sounds right

9:20

To me I came up with something. Yeah,

9:22

no smart It does feel like it could

9:24

be like a play like it and it

9:26

like you said it all runs in real

9:28

time I mean the in the it does

9:30

feel like okay It's almost like okay Scully's

9:32

gonna go off So Jillian can take a

9:34

break for ten minutes while Mulder does his

9:37

bit and then Mulder gets to go off

9:39

And David gets to take a break for

9:41

ten minutes while Scully comes It's like they

9:43

could perform this episode live. Yeah, they really

9:45

could I could just kind of picture like

9:47

they'd have like a cool Like rotating stage

9:49

or something yeah room to room and I

9:51

think that would be super cool We should

9:54

we should definitely mount a stage production of

9:56

this I think you and I we could

9:58

be the producers and And I

10:00

think we could also star in it.

10:02

Look at this. We could also

10:04

get Larry could he's really great since he's really

10:06

great. Shit, yes. gonna play all four all

10:08

could do all the He Look, we

10:10

got it. It's done. it. It's done. Yeah, gone.

10:12

All right, Yeah, because I think, it is what of

10:14

the things I really like about the

10:16

episode is the love, you know you

10:19

love character driven stories. I love dialogue.

10:21

I I love acting acting, that's what

10:23

this episode relies on other, you know,

10:25

there's not much in the way of

10:27

sets but the sets they have

10:29

are super cool the and really well cool

10:31

and utilized. I mean the cool

10:33

sort of I mean from one room

10:35

to another to an identical room, or

10:37

is it? an That's really

10:39

well photographed that's really spooky

10:41

and cool spooky and even though.

10:44

though It more or less happens all in the

10:46

same room. It doesn't feel like it's all

10:48

in the same room and they do really

10:50

cool things with what they are given. what they are

10:52

given. So I think it's think it's really well done.

10:54

This probably them them a lot of money on

10:56

the budget compared to an average episode, I

10:58

suspect, which which I think is the general

11:01

idea of a bottle episode. It's like like run

11:03

out of money out to save money on

11:05

the budget. You have a bottle episode you you

11:07

don't have to spend a lot of money

11:09

since it's all in one place. Do you

11:11

know if this is a set Or if

11:13

it's like an actual... an I don't know.

11:15

I was curious know. I was It looks

11:17

like a house to me, but I

11:19

don't know I me, but I don't know. I mean,

11:21

out there. So it could well

11:24

be a sets out there, I it if be a

11:26

of it if part of it was... set and

11:28

part of it was maybe shot inside

11:30

a real house or you know, you

11:32

know possible possible I think it it could be I

11:34

you know, who knows, maybe there's like

11:36

a couple of standard maybe there's that folks in

11:38

Hollywood use. And this was one of

11:40

them, I don't know, but it looks great.

11:42

that it looks beautiful. I the chandelier with

11:45

the cobwebs on it and everything. It's

11:47

beautifully great yeah it looks beautiful I

11:49

a very cool setting, so the really

11:51

like what they did with it. everything it's

11:53

creatively shot it's could have been it could have

11:55

been a bit of a boring episode

11:57

quite frankly especially kind of the way We're

11:59

describing it it. with you know, not a lot

12:01

of variation in sets in not a lot

12:03

of action. a lot of action but it's

12:06

so well in terms of

12:08

the writing and the acting the

12:10

the directing. pace very very well.

12:12

is paced paced really well. it's got

12:14

um it's entertaining from start from start to

12:16

finish. i It's, I think it's just

12:18

a very, very well done episode.

12:20

I think it's in my top 25.

12:22

top I think it's like number 15

12:24

on my top 25. my top 25 all-time

12:27

ex files episodes because of all those things. was

12:29

it was in too. I think mine

12:31

was a little closer to the bottom

12:33

of the list, of but the list, but I

12:35

mean still a great one. it's a

12:37

great one. You we were talking about how it

12:39

feels it feels a lot of people a rooms talking in

12:41

rooms I think that I it's funny to me

12:44

because just a couple of weeks ago or a

12:46

few weeks ago, we were talking about, a to

12:48

believe ago how rare it is for us to

12:50

see. how rare it is for us to with

12:52

any sort sort of... depth or length

12:55

about their about their

12:57

relationship. at a very though their relationship

12:59

is at a very different place

13:01

in this episode, that's what makes

13:03

it great and interesting because we

13:05

still don't really know what's going

13:07

on. And it's funny because they kind of

13:09

of poke fun at that throughout

13:11

the episode episode and Lida don't

13:13

really know Lida particularly Lida, doesn't really

13:15

know what's going on know she

13:17

kind of is on either. She's kind

13:19

of us in this episode because

13:21

she's like, in this episode. you're so you're both

13:23

so attractive. like what was that yeah and it's just it

13:25

was very it's just, it was very funny

13:27

time I think every time I think of

13:29

sort of the fun that that gets poked

13:31

at and Scully and their their platonicness it just makes just makes

13:34

me laugh that Chris Carter wrote this

13:36

because it's like he knows, he he

13:38

knows what people are thinking and you

13:40

know, just to poke fun at it

13:42

I think is really great and to

13:44

do that through those characters was such

13:46

a brilliant idea. was such a always love the

13:48

idea of... love the idea of seeing more and

13:51

Scully sort of from a different perspective,

13:53

from the perspective of another character. of another

13:55

I think I I once something like,

13:57

I love to play the game, game

13:59

what do other people in this scene think

14:01

scene and Scully's relationship is, and

14:03

this episode is all about that, about

14:05

that. Yeah. really love that aspect of

14:07

it aspect of it too. Yeah. Well let's

14:10

get into this, then, the

14:12

actual what's going on here. on

14:14

here. This episode yeah this episode very heavily

14:16

into themes of, you know,

14:18

suggestibility. and fear and

14:20

and and I think that think that kind

14:22

kind of the idea behind what

14:24

what and and are trying to

14:26

get these people. people. to, I

14:28

I guess, to come to. every year. And it's

14:30

year. to it's interesting

14:32

to me. like, what do you, what in

14:34

terms of terms of what they, they know

14:37

what they know? I know, all kind

14:39

of comes down to how exactly

14:41

is this episode working? Do

14:43

they know, do they know because they're

14:45

ghosts they're they know? and they

14:47

have like they mystical powers? Right.

14:49

Or is it really just it

14:51

they say like they say. it's all

14:54

in their head and they're projecting

14:56

this upon themselves? upon I mean,

14:58

I think is almost i think is

15:00

interesting, even though that though that

15:02

isn't the the likely answer because this is

15:04

the files and of we know that there's ghosts, but

15:07

like just in terms of all the stuff they of

15:09

all the them. they they tell them yeah it's just, yeah, sorry,

15:11

I want to hear your thoughts on that. that yeah

15:13

no i no, I think that's, that's a really

15:15

great point in a great question. I was

15:17

wondering that myself myself I hadn't really thought about

15:19

it until today because it mean, today because they're

15:22

throwing a lot of sort of a lot of sort

15:24

of stuff at both stuff and Scully, but the

15:26

stuff they come up with. they come up

15:28

with is of like close to the

15:30

the mark. Not necessarily in terms

15:32

of objective truth, perhaps that's debatable,

15:34

perhaps but certainly in terms of

15:37

things that will affect them

15:39

in terms of of what do they

15:41

think of themselves and what will

15:43

and what will at their insecurities.

15:45

at their insecurities. like you said,

15:47

fears. not objective truth, but

15:49

perhaps truth, but you hit

15:51

so close to the mark.

15:53

mark. Yeah, it it you you uncomfortable.

15:55

mean, especially in that scene with

15:57

in that scene Mulder and, and, and Maurice, you can see.

16:00

see in his face his face that

16:02

he him at doesn't believe him at first. He's

16:04

like, who's this guy? He's crazy. And then as

16:06

the scene kind of goes on, he's getting

16:08

increasingly uncomfortable. You can tell can tell

16:10

by his body language that he's

16:12

pegged him. pegged You know? you know yeah Yeah, Mulder

16:14

feels as feels as though he's been

16:16

pegged at least. Whether he has has but

16:18

sure, but it certainly makes Mulder

16:20

feel like he's been pegged. Or

16:22

Or possible. possible. Yeah. Yeah, that this, that this, it's

16:24

all the worst aspects of him,

16:26

of course. It's like the worst

16:28

version of Mulder and his biggest

16:30

sort of it's biggest sort of like and

16:32

fear about how he is perceived

16:34

and the kind of person he is

16:36

Yeah, but sort of going back

16:38

to your original question. Where do they

16:40

get that from? do they get that of like

16:42

theory that they've they've been

16:45

doing these hauntings for so long, they've

16:47

just gotten really good at reading

16:49

people. almost mean, this is almost like

16:51

a little too good. mean, Maybe good. be

16:53

some got to be supernatural, the supernatural, like

16:55

the but I kind of like the

16:58

idea that just just just students of

17:00

human nature this this is what they've

17:02

been doing you know, for the last

17:04

several decades long they've been however long they've

17:06

been dead for. of learned what makes people ticked what makes

17:08

just sort of learned what makes

17:11

people ticked. that's all they all they do all

17:13

long is try try to crazy, to drive and

17:15

to make them do things that

17:17

they normally never would do. And so,

17:19

they've just taken it upon them

17:21

as a hobby. them as a hobby of learn

17:23

how people tick. tick. And I think that's kind of

17:25

cool think that's kind of cool that

17:27

they've just really, they've just kind

17:29

of assessed Mulder and Scully and just

17:31

nailed them effectively. them effectively. I I

17:33

that. that. I I really like that theory, and

17:36

that's probably the truth I'm also But I'm also

17:38

wondering of if this is kind of like almost like a

17:40

zodiac to say like or like a like a situation

17:42

where you like a, like a, like a psychic

17:44

thing where you just you're just you're you're the time

17:46

of the time you're saying you're in a very vague

17:48

things in a way. the And it's not, it's

17:50

not like he's saying vague things. I mean,

17:52

the things that he's saying are very specific,

17:55

especially when it comes down to when he's

17:57

like, well, and you probably believe believe in, like, like,

17:59

like, like, like, like, like, like, that like it's very very actually

18:01

specific it's it's like he knows like

18:03

he knows it without even him like he

18:05

talking to him have and even true maybe they maybe it's

18:07

true observing them they've been we don't because we

18:09

don't actually run and Maurice until and Maurice until

18:11

like 20 minutes into the episode with with

18:13

them so it's possible they've been observing them

18:15

and from like the first 10 minutes

18:17

I mean you I all you need to

18:19

know about to know like the first in minutes

18:22

of the minutes of the of the of the episode yeah I

18:24

mean I guess you you could look at

18:26

it that way that they've kind of been

18:28

observing okay all right we watch them

18:30

for 20 minutes we know all we need

18:32

to know We down go to know sit down let's

18:34

throw all this this at the at the see

18:36

what sticks. what know what I mean?

18:38

You know what I mean? Yeah, just very good

18:40

at reading just very good at reading. hitting

18:42

home and what isn't. and what isn't any

18:44

therapist would. know what I mean?

18:46

what mean? Yeah. Yeah, exactly. They'd make really

18:49

excellent therapists, I think. they seem

18:51

really good at picking up on

18:53

really good at feelings and concerns, but

18:55

they'd probably really screw you up

18:57

if you went to them for

18:59

therapy. screw you out the went then them for

19:01

out. Take out the murder. and, you

19:03

know, do you call the murder and then, know,

19:05

also take out the murder. to What do you call bedside manner

19:08

when it's a But because he's I mean,

19:10

light is be But like, Maurice is

19:12

a total dick to Mulder. You can

19:14

tell he's he's like, like, okay, I I think

19:16

we're done here. Like, yeah. I I kind

19:18

of feel like Mulder would do

19:20

well with a therapist like that, though.

19:22

I think he needs a dick

19:24

in his think he gonna really like lay

19:26

it on the line to It's then

19:28

it's like, you know, it on the won't

19:30

get through to Mulder because he's

19:32

so sure about himself. you know, subtlety won't he

19:34

could have been to Mulder because he's I feel

19:36

like at the end of the episode, Right.

19:39

the time we get to the end

19:41

of the episode, could have we'll talk in much

19:43

more detail about all of this, I I

19:45

felt like like I felt like

19:47

Mulder and Scully gained a bit

19:49

of self -awareness by the end, end and

19:51

I made a note a note to myself,

19:53

this this is what they get after

19:55

encountering Maurice and Lyda for for just, you

19:57

know, an hour or two, and

19:59

Matt Imagine what sort of strides

20:02

they could make in their

20:04

relationship if they went to real

20:06

real counseling because they're clearly they're clearly you know quite

20:08

at sort of taking sort of

20:10

taking on board criticism and insight about

20:12

about themselves and each other. of they it's almost

20:14

like almost like they're just thirsting for for

20:16

that they they quite quite well to it

20:18

by the end kind of try to of try

20:20

to take it on board. These two

20:23

are they are are so ready for counseling.

20:25

Imagine what could have happened if we we

20:27

could have just got them in front

20:29

of a proper counselor at that point.

20:31

They were ready. were ready yeah I think you're

20:33

completely absolutely right. And that's a very

20:35

good point that I didn't really think

20:38

about, but you're right, like especially at

20:40

the end, at the have moments where

20:42

they're like, where Like like huh like they it's it is

20:44

a moment of self a wanted to

20:46

bring out too, since we're talking

20:48

about like therapy and everything. we're talking about

20:50

you and it was kind of interesting

20:53

and funny that kind of so close to

20:55

the mark with Mulder, talking about

20:57

all of his the mark with Mulder that send

20:59

him into, all what does he say?

21:01

issues that send for the what it's a

21:03

total fertile fields for the Which is what happens?

21:06

breakdown which is what happens yeah right right Maurice has

21:08

it nailed on nailed on the head and

21:10

not only is he accurate. He's

21:12

all he's very prophetic at the same

21:14

at the same I I mean mean, he nails

21:16

it. I paramilitary, I'm not I'm not too

21:18

sure even what that word means, but

21:21

aside from that that. I mean, all the all

21:23

the terms that he's using far off

21:25

are not far off the

21:27

he's you know, he's talking

21:29

about. compulsiveness, workaholism, anti-socialism. I mean, mean,

21:31

he's describing Mulder in I want

21:33

to believe. Yes, he, yep. Yep. yep. I

21:36

mean So, I mean, obviously

21:38

Chris Carter has a

21:40

good handle on Mulder as

21:42

a character, a character and and

21:44

these qualities in see these qualities

21:46

in Mulder. most of the time

21:49

this stage, in and most of the time at

21:51

this point in the series, he's like that all just

21:53

kind of say, yeah, he's like that, but he's

21:55

got lots of good qualities too, and it's

21:57

fine. But by by the time we get to, I

21:59

want to believe in... and season 10 of those

22:01

those problems become harder and

22:03

harder to ignore. But they

22:05

were there all along for sure.

22:07

And obviously it makes, makes it makes

22:09

Mulder very uncomfortable. It

22:11

does. And I think it's

22:14

it's also it's, it's also happens to, or It has

22:16

to do with like do with like how. the the

22:18

circumstances happen to be be like he is in

22:20

his life, what situation is like is like he

22:22

know, after the after the truth and between the

22:24

truth and I want to believe there's a

22:26

lot of nothing for him. him I think

22:28

that like, that like is it? What is

22:30

the phrase about about idleness is the the devil's play

22:33

thing I don't know know the, you know what

22:35

phrase I'm thinking of, right? thinking of right? Idle hands

22:37

or the devil's like that. that. That's something that I need to

22:39

know that one. It's something about idle hands. Anyway,

22:41

I should have looked it up, but

22:43

it was one of the, it's one of

22:45

those things where it's like, one of those where it's

22:48

like can't deal, he he needs a

22:50

therapist, like he needs somebody to

22:52

tell him like, to tell him you do

22:54

with all of this energy this you

22:56

don't have anything? don't have anything to. to

22:58

it on. And I mean, mean, it's

23:01

just another thing that again, I'm not, I'm

23:03

not saying that Carter was like, the

23:05

road, we're gonna have we're a

23:07

mental breakdown, know? it's

23:09

here, know, but it's, always said all along,

23:11

all of the signs are there,

23:13

of the even Mulder knows it. It's

23:15

it. It's it's just very interesting to

23:17

see that here in the middle

23:19

of a. of the. somewhat light-hearted season six episode

23:21

you you know, no it's really it is a really

23:23

is a really interesting combination this episode

23:25

because it is you know you know

23:27

a lot of really great humor in

23:30

it great humor then there's you know,

23:32

there's really kind of like sticking the

23:34

knife in in terms of the in

23:36

the knife in in as well as you

23:38

know yeah as scary stuff as well and

23:40

suspenseful stuff, right? stuff right

23:42

so it a really interesting

23:44

combination, but really really really it

23:46

works works well of one of these things that

23:48

it would be it sounds like it would be

23:50

hard to pull off to pull off but really well

23:52

really well and these insights are all are all

23:54

like fodder because like you said said earlier

23:56

you know we don't get a chance

23:58

to just talk talk. about Mulder and

24:00

Scully's character like this, especially in terms

24:03

of like an observer, a very

24:05

astute observer who's kind of, you know,

24:07

colonist spade, a spade in terms

24:09

of Mulder. And even in terms of

24:11

Scully, know, Lila, Lila, excuse me,

24:13

doesn't have quite as much to say

24:15

to Scully as Maurice does to

24:17

Mulder, but, you know, this idea of

24:20

intimacy through codependency and that sort

24:22

of thing. It's like, okay, that's kind

24:24

of like, that sounds pretty accurate.

24:26

again, the kind of thing that plays

24:28

out over the course of their

24:30

relationship, we see a lot of that.

24:32

Do you wanna maybe think of

24:34

two, and this was also funny because

24:37

this is another season six episode,

24:39

her reaction to that, again, someone pegging

24:41

her is initial, it's very Scully,

24:43

it's disbelief. She's like, what? Like, but

24:45

you know by the end of

24:47

the episode, yes, you know by the

24:49

end of the episode, she's thinking

24:51

about it. And it reminded me of

24:53

the moment in ranking when Sheila

24:56

tells her, well, you're just trying to

24:58

divert me to Holman because you

25:00

have feelings for Mulder. And she goes,

25:02

what? And it's like the same

25:04

reaction, even though we know the truth,

25:06

that she's still in this place

25:08

where she's trying to deny it, you

25:10

know what I mean? even though

25:13

we all know that it's true. So

25:15

just, it's very funny and it's

25:17

a very Scully reaction, like to have

25:19

this really abrupt disbelief. I just

25:21

wanted to point that out, like their

25:23

reactions are different. And Mulder's more

25:25

of like, hmm, what else do you

25:27

have to say, really? Okay, you

25:30

know, it's just, it was kind of,

25:32

yeah, Mulder's like somewhere between like,

25:34

you know, interested and then awkward and

25:36

then a little bit mad because

25:38

this is just getting too much. But

25:40

at no point do I feel

25:42

as though he's rejecting the sort of

25:44

assessment that he's getting. Right, and

25:46

it's an evolution with him. Yeah, yeah,

25:49

yeah. Whereas with Scully, it's just

25:51

like, no, no, no. How do I

25:53

get out of here? But it

25:55

does kind of sink in on a

25:57

certain level because, you know, she

25:59

remembers some of it by the end.

26:01

So obviously it's the kind of the kind of

26:03

thing. I mean, I done certainly done

26:06

that many a time in my life

26:08

where I'm like I and then I

26:10

think about it later, and I'm

26:12

like I kind of maybe I kind of a little

26:14

too that a little too quickly. classic scully

26:16

It was, but very much of

26:18

reaction, for much in character for both

26:21

of them for how they reacted to

26:23

the ghost The truth The truth

26:25

has a funny way of coming to to light. that

26:27

it does on the show and in the show and

26:29

in life. that's a really good point But that's a

26:31

really good point of yeah, we tend

26:33

to sort of we things that we don't.

26:36

to We don't want to believe they'll

26:38

they'll seep their their way into our

26:40

subconscious and I I think they just linger yeah that's

26:42

what happened to both of them.

26:44

And I think I think too there that shot

26:46

at at the end where Mulder's kind of on

26:48

the couch. couch And you can tell he's

26:50

thinking really hard. hard can tell he's very

26:52

thoughtful and we don't really get to see

26:54

a moment like that with a moment but

26:56

we know that he's we know that his head

26:58

deep in that moment, like wondering well well, first

27:00

of all, probably wondering was any of that

27:02

real? And second of all, going, and about

27:04

all that stuff that they said? that you

27:07

know. that they said like all, know definitely, you can

27:09

just see him thinking. him thinking so chance to

27:11

see him thinking. But then of course, course

27:13

Skully shows up at his door, we

27:15

know she must have been thinking thinking too yeah to

27:17

have been most motivated to show up at

27:19

his door up at his door at what's what ungodly

27:21

hour at that point. point yeah really

27:23

must this Obviously, this has affected both

27:25

of them. the point to the point

27:27

that that they're sufficiently uncomfortable that they

27:29

want to sort of talk

27:31

about it as soon as possible.

27:33

talk about it as soon Which is nice.

27:35

Yeah, exactly. Which is intimacy through and again,

27:37

it's intimacy through Who's the one who

27:39

goes to whose apartment? who goes to

27:41

whose know, we need know, we need

27:44

important, right? Yeah, right? Yeah, important.

27:46

Let's Let's talk about which is another which

27:48

is another big talked And we've talked

27:50

about this before of our sort of discussions.

27:53

I feel I feel like loneliness is

27:55

a huge, I mean, it's a huge of the show,

27:57

but I feel like they touch on it

27:59

so much during season six. because they're sort of

28:01

in this position now. I mean, we've just

28:03

come off the fight the future near kiss

28:05

and we've got Diana Valley and we've got

28:08

all kinds of other stuff happening during season

28:10

six that is kind of keeping them from

28:12

yet again, from moving forward in that regard.

28:14

And I like the idea that they. Even

28:17

later in Nelagro, I'm jumping all over the

28:19

place, when they say, when he says, or

28:21

she says, I'm not so lonely, and then

28:23

she says loneliness is a choice, you know,

28:26

it's almost, this is all kind of, feels

28:28

like it's all somewhat connected to, to what

28:30

she would have heard in here and what

28:33

she would have absorbed about the idea of

28:35

being so afraid of being lonely that you

28:37

have to. that you would have to do

28:39

something like this, kill somebody and die with

28:42

somebody, you know what I mean? Not that

28:44

they ever considered it, but you know, they

28:46

believed it for a moment there, you know,

28:48

so. Yeah, no, it's a very interesting theme

28:51

and especially with regards to Mulder, the issue

28:53

of loneliness comes up a lot, but they're

28:55

certainly, you know, we can certainly see Scully

28:57

in that same picture as well, because it

29:00

is a theme throughout the season. And I

29:02

find it so interesting that Chris Carter chose

29:04

a Christmas episode to explore the theme of

29:07

loneliness, which on the surface seems like kind

29:09

of an odd choice, but it makes perfect

29:11

sense really when you kind of, if we

29:13

are to look at sort of the festive

29:16

season with rose-colored glasses on, it can be

29:18

a very difficult time for people. And it

29:20

can be a very lonely time of year.

29:22

So it kind of makes total sense. We

29:25

don't see that kind of thing addressed. in

29:27

sort of mass media when it comes to

29:29

Christmas. Usually every Christmas episode of every show

29:31

is about how awesome Christmas is. And here's

29:34

an episode that's not about how awesome Christmas

29:36

is. Yeah, it's about how shitty Christmas can

29:38

be when you don't have all the things

29:41

that everyone else has. Like, and I mean,

29:43

I think in the end, by the end,

29:45

we realize that they do have that, which

29:47

I feel like is a little bit of

29:50

the point of... of the episode. episode.

29:52

quote me on this because I me

29:54

on this the I

29:56

don't know the actual

29:59

stats, but I do

30:01

feel like I've heard

30:03

enough times that it

30:05

could practically be a that

30:08

like is the highest

30:10

rate of suicide. suicide. Like yeah,

30:12

there's something like that. like know that

30:14

it's certainly a challenging time of year time

30:17

of year for all for everyone in and

30:19

especially people who have suffered

30:21

bereavement, especially for people for who

30:23

have mental health challenges. It's it can

30:25

It be a be a very

30:27

difficult time. It's a hard

30:29

time of year for me.

30:31

I mean, I've got anxiety

30:33

got Christmas and always like, like. I'm

30:36

through the roof for the the

30:38

entire month of December because they're

30:40

these expectations always these expectations and brings.

30:42

it know, issues know, from your past,

30:44

who knows. who knows. So it's just, it can be, be,

30:46

one of the one of the reasons I

30:48

I like this episode I think is

30:50

because is because Christmas can

30:52

be, I find, a challenging time of

30:54

year for me, health wise health I kind of

30:57

I don't of, I don't see that

30:59

portrayed very often on television. So

31:01

so I kind of, I relate a

31:03

lot to sort of this idea

31:05

that this idea idea of Christmas

31:07

melancholy being a thing but that

31:09

you know even if your know, even

31:12

if your Christmas and your your

31:14

life and your family doesn't

31:16

look like the traditional traditional Christmas

31:18

or the traditional family,

31:20

it can still be something. life

31:22

that can fight in your life that

31:24

can fight the loneliness. case it's each other

31:27

case, it's each other. all And that's

31:29

all they really need. And so there

31:31

is a positive message. so I like in

31:33

the end that so I like that in

31:35

the sense that that You know, it

31:37

doesn't pretend that Christmas is that and

31:39

that Christmas fixes everything, but at the

31:41

same time, there's a message of

31:43

hope at the end that it is

31:45

still about connection, but it it necessarily

31:47

have to be about holding hands

31:49

around the Christmas hands around the Christmas that, I

31:51

really like that message. like that you're

31:54

totally know, you're about that. It's funny, it

31:56

just occurred to me on this

31:58

very show to me on this very show in season five. the

32:00

Emily Art Christmas Carol. I think

32:02

that Detective Kresge actually says yeah lot

32:04

of people check themselves out around

32:06

Christmas time because that's yeah so it's

32:08

funny because it's like they well

32:10

which is ironic because when I watched

32:12

that episode kind of makes me

32:14

want to check myself out but joking

32:17

joking. but that is funny that it

32:19

actually, it's brought up like the season

32:21

before on this very, and I guess

32:23

I is another sort of Christmas episode.

32:25

like I said, yeah it's only, I

32:27

think that's the only other Christmas -y episode

32:29

of the X -Files that I could

32:32

think of was Christmas Carol and Emily.

32:34

I mean, let's, Christmas Carol and Emily,

32:36

I think, in my opinion, are the

32:38

most depressing episodes of the entire series.

32:40

I agree. so clearly in X -Files land

32:42

Christmas is not necessarily the most wonderful

32:44

time of the year. no and I

32:46

mean, look, we look at this one

32:48

and even with all of the, this

32:51

one has everything, know, it has some

32:53

silly stuff, it has some depressing stuff,

32:55

it has some scary stuff, but it

32:57

ends, like you said, on a hopeful

32:59

note. And I mean, you cannot say

33:01

the same about about other episodes. You

33:03

cannot, I mean, this is like a

33:05

Hallmark Christmas special in comparison with Christmas

33:08

Carol and Emily. exactly I for me,

33:10

how the Ghost stole Christmas. has just

33:12

the right. tone for a

33:14

Christmas episode it's it's not got

33:16

you know the sort of phony

33:18

everything is perfect at Christmas but

33:20

at the same time there is

33:22

like a realistic element of hope

33:24

to it so that someone that

33:26

maybe isn't in a great place

33:28

can watch this and say, okay maybe my

33:31

life's not perfect because Mulder and Scully's

33:33

life aren't perfect. They're not perfect people,

33:35

but they can still find hope. yeah

33:37

so I think that's a really, I

33:39

really like that. I like that vibe.

33:41

It's one of the reasons why I

33:43

like this episode. I think yeah

33:45

yeah yeah totally. did you see any

33:47

sort of parallels? I mean I

33:49

know that we get the line that

33:52

we all enjoy where Mulder says

33:54

we're not lovers, which nobody wants to

33:56

hear. did you see any other

33:58

parallels? So sad though. I know he

34:00

is kind of sad. He does seem kind of

34:02

disappointed. Um, he does, right?

34:04

Uh, yeah, really disappointed. It's like,

34:06

and he gets a little, it's another

34:09

moment where he gets a little

34:11

uncomfortable, but, uh, parallels between the couples.

34:13

Um, did what, what, is there

34:15

anything that you that stood out to

34:17

you? I don't know, I

34:19

mean... Certainly I see a

34:21

see a parallel in the opening telling

34:24

telling the story of in the car

34:26

and Lida they go into the house, they

34:28

a the house, which is a

34:30

great story. is It's written in

34:33

a very, the dialogue is

34:35

very which normally you style, which normally

34:37

you know I hate because it's

34:39

usually very sort of purple prose over

34:41

the over the top but it

34:43

works perfectly for the story

34:45

that Mulder is telling. Mulder is her.

34:47

charming her. with this of, you know, you

34:50

know over the top. romanticized

34:52

story. he does tell it. I

34:54

mean, it I says Scully says you know? to him

34:56

you know you know, it's a story

34:58

that you a that you told it told

35:00

it you he does tell it he does tell

35:02

it well it's very delivered. I mean, I

35:04

was, I was watching it again today,

35:06

the episode and I I was just

35:08

sort of closing my eyes and listening

35:10

during the part when the telling the

35:12

story. And I was thinking in

35:14

a lot of other, I I can imagine

35:16

a lot of other TV shows shows

35:18

the need to to put some kind

35:20

of graphics in while telling the story like hey here's

35:22

some scenes from World War World

35:24

War of show what he's talking

35:26

about, kind of thing. Just

35:28

something visual. visual yeah with the ex X

35:30

we're we're just, we are just

35:33

watching Mulder tell the story,

35:35

because David Duchovny does an amazing

35:37

job of telling that story,

35:39

actually. And it is, it is

35:41

really well written written actually and really

35:43

well in that context. And

35:45

so one of the things that

35:47

he says while he's telling his

35:49

enchanting story, story. He talks about about and

35:51

Lyda and Maurice described describes him as a

35:53

heroic young man. young

35:55

man beloved of Lyda a a

35:57

sublime beauty a light that

36:00

seemed to follow her wherever she

36:02

went. They were likened to two

36:04

angels, descended from heaven, whom the

36:06

gods could not protect from the

36:08

horrors being visited upon this cold

36:10

gray earth. And every time I

36:12

hear that, I think he's talking

36:14

about Muldrens. Yeah, yeah. I don't

36:16

know if he's deliberately trying to

36:18

say that. I kind of feel

36:20

like maybe he's hitting on Scully

36:22

slightly. I'm not sure. I think

36:24

he's unaware. I think they're both...

36:26

I think it's entirely possible he's

36:28

unaware. Yeah, I just love the

36:30

idea. I can just picture Mulder

36:32

like in his car waiting for

36:34

scully like for an hour just

36:37

like practicing the story over and

36:39

over. You know what I mean?

36:41

All right, all right, I got

36:43

it. It sounds very well-rehearse. I

36:45

love to how he repeats the...

36:47

it was a time of dark

36:49

despair. He's really trying to hit

36:51

it home and she's like... Go

36:54

on like you know, she's like all

36:56

right you've got it. Yeah, it was

36:58

very cute and yeah And I love

37:00

that I must say I do love

37:02

the that line You know two angels

37:05

descended from heaven whom the gods cannot

37:07

protect from the horse being visited upon

37:09

this cold gray earth Honestly, I feel

37:11

like that is a pretty good description

37:13

of Mulder and Scully. Yeah, because they

37:16

they So many horrors are visited upon

37:18

them over the over the course of

37:20

the series and the gods could not

37:22

protect them and they were like two

37:24

angels descended from heaven so I really

37:27

love that bitch. I thought the same

37:29

thing you know for the record in

37:31

terms of like sort of I guess

37:33

like young Maurice and young Lida seem

37:35

a lot like Mulder and Scully I

37:38

don't know if ghost Maurice and Lyda

37:40

are that much like them but I

37:42

think any time you've got an episode

37:44

that has two couples in it, we

37:46

are meant to draw parallels of some

37:48

kind. They're gonna, they're a little bit

37:51

more cynical, I think, in their older

37:53

age. Even more so than, even more

37:55

so than Scully. So it's a, yeah.

37:57

I didn't see a

37:59

lot of parallels,

38:02

but I did that they the idea that

38:04

they know them so well, see a little bit

38:06

of a little bit of yourselves probably

38:08

in everybody. You look look for the things

38:10

that you see in yourself. mean, Marie even

38:12

says himself, he's like, like, like you said, said,

38:14

we've been doing this for years. you know,

38:17

that comes here is coming here for

38:19

a reason. They're obviously here for a

38:21

reason. here for a you come here? why it's

38:23

true. why else would you do that? You else would

38:25

you do that? Like You know what I

38:27

mean? would else would you here on Christmas?

38:30

it's because you're lonely you're lonely.

38:32

Well, and I mean I

38:34

mean I mean, Maurice and big part

38:36

of their whole whole modus operandi

38:38

to convince Muldron Scully

38:40

that they are like are like,

38:42

Maurice and and so that

38:44

they fated. So kill themselves kill themselves.

38:46

Yeah. Yeah. So I So I definitely can

38:48

see that as part of, you

38:50

know, the trap that they lay

38:52

Muldranterns. Right, well Well, let's talk about that because

38:54

it seems like like they, you you know, obviously

38:56

their goal is to get them to get them

38:58

to kill each other, murder suicides somehow. I

39:00

do love the do love the

39:03

part is is like. not going to

39:05

not gonna shoot me. she'll shoot she'll shoot

39:07

herself. I wouldn't let her. Like it

39:09

was just, it's love that bitch. And very

39:11

sweet. And I don't even know

39:13

if like he realizes how sweet that

39:15

is. because it's just like, it's so, it's it's so,

39:18

it's so sort of quiet, but

39:20

so. but so. sort of solid determine yeah and yeah

39:22

I'd love that one actually I'd love that

39:24

nice and it's he really nice. And

39:26

it's he says it so automatically.

39:29

It's like yeah almost silly. going to happen and course,

39:31

that's not gonna happen. And it

39:33

does make you wonder like they obviously

39:35

to kill themselves there you kill themselves. the

39:37

then you think about, I all the other people

39:39

that went, I guess somebody dies every year

39:41

or whatever is story is. I don't know

39:43

how real it is if it's just a

39:45

story. but which is actually an is actually an interesting point

39:47

because if people did die in the house.

39:49

the house They did, right? yeah, I think I

39:51

think at one point, Lida maybe says, is

39:53

Lider? No, Mulder at one point says one

39:55

point says that there have

39:57

been something like four double or murders.

40:00

suicides over the period of time. Okay,

40:02

so it's not every year. It's not

40:04

every year. It's not every year, but

40:06

they try it every year, I think.

40:08

Right, well, and they're not always successful.

40:10

And they did say that no one

40:12

even showed up last year, didn't they

40:14

say that? That's true. Yeah, so it's

40:16

possible that like, you know, business has

40:18

slowed. Yeah, they don't want to get

40:20

to take off the tourist literature. Yeah,

40:22

yeah. But it makes me wonder though

40:24

that the other four couples that the

40:26

other four couples or whatever that the

40:28

other four couples or whatever that that

40:30

that that that that showed up that

40:32

that showed up that showed up that

40:34

showed up that showed up that showed

40:36

up that showed up that showed up

40:38

that showed up that showed up that

40:40

showed up that Well, yes, that is,

40:42

that does raise interesting questions. What's the

40:44

difference between them and Mulder and Scully?

40:46

Did he show up with that intention,

40:48

which maybe they did, or maybe their

40:50

relationship wasn't quite as strong in terms

40:52

of the trust and faith they have

40:54

in each other. Right. Right. As Mulder

40:57

and Scully, when it came down to

40:59

it, they did not believe. that the

41:01

other would shoot them. Right. Even when

41:03

presented with lots of evidence that they

41:05

would, I mean, right up until the

41:07

moment that they are shot, quote unquote,

41:09

they think it's not going to happen.

41:11

You know, Scully says to Mother, you

41:13

know, I don't believe a word you're

41:15

saying. She does not believe he's going

41:17

to shoot her. And it's only when,

41:19

you know, they create the illusion of

41:21

having been shot that they start to

41:23

think. I think I've actually been shot.

41:25

You actually shot me. But up until

41:27

that moment, there's no way that they

41:29

believe that that would happen. Well, and

41:31

the interesting thing too is when you

41:33

think about it, the fact that they

41:35

are able to break free from that

41:37

is remarkable, especially like considering even just

41:39

from Skelly's perspective. She sees it all.

41:41

She sees it happen. She sees Mulder

41:43

approaching her. She sees him shooting her,

41:45

she feels herself being shot, right? Like

41:47

she feels the blood, sees the blood.

41:49

There's like, there could, there could not

41:52

be any more evidence. You know what

41:54

I mean? And yet, and yet, yeah,

41:56

and yet based 100% on him saying

41:58

your favorite line, get up, you're not

42:00

shot. Suddenly, they're both snapped out

42:02

of it. out of it. It's like that. Yeah, I

42:04

mean, it it is. It's like it is on the

42:06

kind of trust and faith they

42:08

have in each other, I think, I think,

42:10

that at the end the end of the

42:12

day, they don't believe that. either of either

42:14

of them would do this

42:16

despite all evidence to the contrary.

42:18

Exactly. And it's it's interesting that that

42:20

one who kind of snaps out

42:23

of of snaps out of it first, I think

42:25

he, I think, is less likely just a sort

42:27

of take things as they appear,

42:29

that he's more likely to sort

42:31

of look for alternative explanations. and he quite

42:33

quickly quite quickly figures it out.

42:35

think, you know, Scully think that's

42:37

probably scully says something like no something me and you

42:40

shot me. he's like, no, I

42:42

didn't. Okay. I know exactly what's

42:44

going on here. Right. no time

42:46

at all to figure it out. it

42:48

And it's I mean, like you say,

42:50

it's, it's one of my favorite

42:52

lines when lines when when says, get

42:54

up, you're not shot. It's like my

42:56

personal mantra when I need to snap

42:58

myself out of anxiety. out talked about which

43:01

I've talked the reason why it's so powerful

43:03

to me why it's so This idea

43:05

is this idea you can believe something,

43:07

and this is the root is the root

43:09

of certainly of and a lot of mental

43:11

illnesses, when you have

43:13

the illness. things seem a hundred percent percent

43:15

true to you in are not in

43:17

fact true, nearly but it's nearly impossible

43:19

to convince yourself otherwise. otherwise but All it

43:21

takes is to convince yourself of that

43:24

for just one second. If you

43:26

can snap out of that, you can

43:28

overcome amazing things. It can feel

43:30

like you've been shot and that you're

43:32

dragging yourself across the floor in

43:34

a pool of your own blood. in a

43:36

even that you can overcome. you can overcome

43:38

by remembering. hey get

43:40

up, you're not not shot yourself

43:43

that if you believe that. believe if

43:45

you can believe that this is

43:47

not real. real then you can overcome

43:49

can overcome things that they

43:52

like. be overcome and things things

43:54

that seem like they are real.

43:56

the way way Mulder does

43:58

that is just amazing to that just

44:00

like oh you know I haven't been

44:02

shot he just stands right up he

44:05

goes from seeming as though he's going

44:07

to die and he can just stand

44:09

right up just like that and he

44:12

can and Scully can do the same

44:14

thing he has to convince her get

44:16

up you're not shot she's like yeah

44:18

I have been actually yeah you know

44:21

it just takes a couple of seconds

44:23

get up you're not shot and she's

44:25

like holy crap I'm not and she

44:28

just stands right up and leaves him

44:30

She believes him. She has faith in

44:32

him and it can feel like you're

44:35

dying one minute and if you can

44:37

just have faith that in the idea

44:39

you're not shawsh, that can completely change

44:42

your perception, change your perception of reality.

44:44

And so I love that part of

44:46

the episode because the episode is a

44:49

lot about fear. a lot about being

44:51

afraid. They talk about a lot about

44:53

you scared. I'm not afraid. Yes, I'm

44:56

afraid. It's not a rational fear. There's

44:58

that kind of dialogue. And so it's

45:00

very powerfully done, I think. And it's

45:03

really interestingly done. And so I love

45:05

that part of the episode. It's just...

45:07

I love the fact that, I mean,

45:10

the first time I watch it obviously

45:12

was a Christmas time because that's when

45:14

it aired. And I remember because Christmas

45:17

is my anxiety season. I so needed

45:19

that message. Could it get up, you're

45:21

not shot because I thought I had

45:24

some kind of weird disease or something

45:26

at the time. And I was like,

45:28

oh no, there's something wrong with me.

45:30

And I just told myself, get up,

45:33

you're not shot. And... It's amazing. It

45:35

was like, it was like, you know,

45:37

a life preserver for me. So it's

45:40

a great, it's something I need to

45:42

hear every Christmas. So this was a

45:44

good time for me to watch this

45:47

episode again because I always need that

45:49

message. It's a great message and it

45:51

really says so many interesting things about

45:54

the faith and trust between Mulder and

45:56

Ska. which I love about love

45:58

about their relationship

46:01

as well. So it's it's

46:03

very cool. It's very, very well

46:05

done. I love it. Yeah, that's actually

46:07

like a really that's a really powerful

46:10

message. And it's interesting too too that like

46:12

you said earlier, most people get, get,

46:14

want pull out like the Christmas movies movies and

46:16

that shares them them up. And that's funny

46:18

that this is what works for

46:20

you. You know what I mean? mean? Yeah,

46:22

that's, that's great. Christmas movies are like fingernails

46:24

on a chalkboard to me, but to

46:26

me. But why that not surprise me, Jen? Right,

46:28

I know. one speaks to me. So it to meets

46:30

me where I'm at. You know, it meets me

46:32

where I'm at, you know, at I'm

46:34

not necessarily happy at Christmas. I'm So

46:36

it meets me where I'm at, and

46:38

it takes me to a hopeful

46:40

place, which is perfect for me. me. Well,

46:42

let's let's break this down here, I

46:44

I just want to make sure that

46:46

you're on the same page as

46:49

me in terms of what exactly happened.

46:51

So I mean, I know there's I know there's

46:53

going to be happening here, happening here, but

46:55

I assume that the in he's walks

46:57

in top being all over the top

46:59

dramatic, than loneliness. days, more loneliness. I shopping overplayed that. Yes,

47:01

yes. And it's funny because the first time you're and it's

47:03

funny because the first time you're watching

47:05

it, like I think I think my I think

47:07

my husband was like totally buying it

47:09

and he was confused. He's like, He's like,

47:11

like, he's like, a shooter? he shoot her? Like was

47:13

just like totally getting it. And I'm

47:16

like, well, I'm find out what's going

47:18

on. And it cuts, going I think it

47:20

actually cuts to a commercial before you

47:22

really know what's going on you terms

47:24

of that, okay, that's just terms of that, okay,

47:26

that's just light a playing Mulder. But

47:28

it does seem like at

47:31

a certain point, a she shoots

47:33

Mulder and then she tries to, she

47:35

shoots she shoots tries then tries

47:37

to like shoot herself and

47:39

like, yeah, he like stops her because, and he

47:41

like stops her. like, no, is this kind of

47:43

wondering why he's like, cheating, you know, you of like, to

47:45

you're cheating. do You you got to get her

47:47

to do it. Like, is it? you thought of was

47:49

wondering what you thought of that moment. curious was

47:52

kind of curious about that, but it'll be too

47:54

about, because, you know, Lidah's holding the gun

47:56

to her head head to you know, pretending to be

47:58

head, but, you know. and, and, you know, Maurice intervenes.

48:00

My only thing I could think of

48:02

was that... There's some kind of a

48:05

ghost rule that you know, don't shoot

48:07

yourself again. You've already got one hole

48:09

You'll put a hole in your head

48:11

and it'll stay there forever That was

48:13

that was the only thing I could

48:16

think of is that maybe maybe the

48:18

ghosts can still be damaged by by

48:20

guns And they can't they don't want

48:22

to actually shoot themselves. That's all I

48:24

could think yeah, it was like it

48:27

was just weird to me. Why she

48:29

did that unless he he was just

48:31

yeah, I don't that that part kind

48:33

of made didn't make sense to me

48:35

didn't make sense to me uh... much

48:38

at all but like i and yeah

48:40

i don't know either i guess or

48:42

i suppose there needed to be a

48:44

plausible explanation for molder still being alive

48:46

later on because in their scheme scully

48:49

needs to shoot molder and for that

48:51

to happen molder has to still be

48:53

alive and so the molder that right

48:55

can't shoot himself because if he shoots

48:57

himself then she can't do it. Yeah.

49:00

The maulter walks in the jigs gonna

49:02

be up right then and there so

49:04

there has to be a way to

49:06

get fake Mulder out of Scully's sight

49:08

right so that Mulder can come in

49:11

and finish the scene I guess. So

49:13

I assume though that while Scully's down

49:15

there you know you know drowning in

49:17

her blood, Mulder is just up. you

49:19

know, bumbling around in another room looking

49:22

for a door, right? He's elsewhere, completely.

49:24

He's elsewhere, yeah. And then he, right,

49:26

and he comes then across, Scully on

49:28

the ground, which is lighter, which is

49:30

lighter again, goes up to her and

49:33

I love the difference too in David's

49:35

acting when he sees Scully and you

49:37

know this is the real molder now,

49:39

and his reaction to that is just

49:41

like, He's so concerned. It's so cute.

49:44

I mean, of course he's concerned. But

49:46

he but he's like he doesn't he

49:48

doesn't believe it. He's just like what?

49:50

Like he doesn't know what happened. He

49:52

thinks maybe she shot herself probably because

49:55

like how how else would she be

49:57

shot? You know, and then yeah. And

49:59

then he, you you know,

50:01

Lida then shoots Mulder. Yeah. he doesn't

50:04

really he doesn't really believe like holding up

50:06

a gun, is like holding up a

50:08

gun still to shoot him And

50:10

he still doesn't believe that this

50:12

is going to happen He's something

50:14

like what are you doing like, what are

50:16

you shoot me so you don't of

50:18

might say something you think you take the

50:20

gun or something Or something and

50:22

because it's or him. He's like, what

50:24

are you doing putting to at

50:27

me? like, what are you doing? happen those faces that

50:29

they make after their shot are

50:31

so telling like especially especially the

50:33

face of just the face of just like

50:35

really happened. happened wow like it's never believed believed

50:37

actually happened. Yeah, happened yeah but but

50:39

it's just, it's then I assume, and I

50:41

love this, I actually thought it

50:44

was a really, really funny moment

50:46

when was a falls really you see

50:48

Lily when laying on the ground and

50:50

she's just Lily Tomlin laying on

50:52

the ground and she's just like she's so happy yeah

50:54

There are so much at this point. Lida and

50:56

Maurice are having are having the

50:58

most fun because they're getting getting,

51:00

getting like this is the

51:02

this were going for which they

51:05

were know for, we're getting

51:07

to the best part. best the

51:09

part This the most fun with. the

51:11

so with. And so like, just working

51:13

out perfectly. go perfectly. So I think

51:15

Lyda's a bit of a ham.

51:17

She loves of a ham. She loves, she

51:19

play whole play acting thing. So technical

51:22

question, there There, there, there

51:24

no real guns being

51:26

fired at all, I'm assuming.

51:28

Well, no, I guess you're right.

51:30

There can't be. be. got

51:33

actually shot. shot. No, actually, yeah, because the

51:35

the only shots that

51:37

are being fired are from.

51:39

from. Lyda in in both

51:41

cases The Lyda has a pretend ghost gun.

51:44

pretend she's the one that shoots she's

51:46

the one that shoots and she's

51:48

the one that shoots mauler she's

51:50

the one that both cases you're So those are

51:52

in both cases, not you're right. Those

51:54

are not real guns. are no real there

51:56

are no real bullets and no one's

51:58

actually shocked. Right I'm I'm just. I was thinking

52:00

about the about the of that because they do

52:02

make a point at a they do make a point

52:04

at a certain they show

52:07

her. the gun into drop the

52:09

gun into right, like doesn't she, she pulls his pulls

52:11

his gun out of his holster

52:13

is she if she's somehow holding it

52:15

and then drops it it he

52:17

catches it, which is a really

52:19

cool effect, by the way. really

52:21

like effect by the way, I really like that. Yeah. Yeah. But

52:23

I wondered they they that in just

52:25

to to of like. us prep us us

52:28

for the idea that these these ghosts can

52:30

can handle the real guns. Maybe

52:32

that's just for the audience benefit so

52:34

that that we think that everyone's

52:36

really shot. shot. You know what I mean?

52:38

I mean? I I mean, it certainly would certainly idea

52:40

in our head in our head That they

52:42

can. can. They can do that. I might have had

52:44

Mulder's real gun, real though even that she

52:46

didn't. out she didn't. it gives us the

52:49

idea that she might well have, because

52:51

as far as the audience is concerned,

52:53

right up until Mulder stands right up until

52:55

Mulder up everybody shot. Yeah. Yeah, I mean,

52:57

you think there's a good, but still There's the part of

52:59

you that thinks, oh, well, you know, there's

53:01

no way that they're you this is the

53:04

middle of season six, and they don't die.

53:06

But you know what I mean? Like, we're

53:08

wondering how are they going to get of

53:10

this? It's very much like die. like you're 10

53:12

minutes from the end, and you're like, well,

53:14

how the fuck are they going to get

53:16

out of this one? It's very much like just great

53:18

storytelling, too, because you're just like, from please,

53:20

please like, this. the Tell me how they're going

53:23

to get out of this, you know? out of this?

53:25

You know, so yeah, you're think they're right. They're

53:27

any punches. There's blood everywhere. blood

53:29

everywhere. Yeah, yeah. So if little Little It's

53:31

super creepy. it's super creepy. mean, I

53:33

a great scene. a Yeah,

53:35

is. Yeah, it is. then we have

53:37

the real real the real and

53:39

the real both That's the first

53:42

time that they actually see

53:44

each other they been shot, each

53:46

quote having been shot, quote unquote. And they, it's

53:48

a question now it's a question going what's

53:50

gonna happen. are are they gonna figure it

53:52

out? it out? Are they gonna shoot each

53:54

other now? Because there is a bit of

53:56

an implication, I think, that... I think

53:59

that they still... are they're on their guard on

54:01

their guard against each other and may in

54:03

fact shoot shoot each other which I was like

54:05

like a almost yeah yeah I'm guessing what guessing what light

54:07

of Lida wanted to happen I suppose because

54:09

at some point someone needs to shoot each

54:11

other with a real gun other with a real gun

54:13

that's a really good point like that was

54:15

the moment where they say we almost

54:17

had we like that was the moment where

54:19

it could have happened so they do need

54:21

to point their guns at each other so

54:23

a certain do need to point their guns each other

54:25

one point and it's they it's

54:27

pretty convincing. Yeah, it's pretty

54:29

pretty Yeah. Yeah yeah yeah but it's

54:32

it's just at the very last second that that

54:34

they I think I think that they kind of

54:36

lose the will to shoot each other I

54:38

think you Well, I think I think they're tired Scully very

54:40

tired. I I mean, Mulder's the one who's

54:42

literally who's down the stairs. And we don't

54:44

really know where Skully's come from. She

54:46

seems to have a little bit of a

54:48

head start. You can come her kind of

54:51

crawling towards the door. So of a that

54:53

maybe she was on the ground floor and

54:55

Mulder sort of was above her or

54:57

something. door. So I assume that maybe she was apart from each

54:59

other, I guess. and but I love it.

55:01

of was above her or something. Yeah. Yeah. I

55:03

love some of this dialogue the end

55:05

end they have, they have a

55:08

moment where a think where I

55:10

think Scully says. I'm not gonna make it, or

55:12

something like that. And he goes, and you're not,

55:14

not without me you're not. Or he says me like

55:16

that. he says something it's a great line.

55:18

a It's a great little moment. moment I

55:20

a lot. what what you think he meant

55:22

by that? I always find that kind

55:24

of a curious a Does that mean line.

55:26

not dying without me shooting you first?

55:28

Cause that's the moment when he, when

55:30

he points the gun at me, when he

55:32

her, which kind of always confused me

55:34

a little bit about exactly what he

55:36

meant there. me a think bit about exactly what he multi

55:38

layers of meaning to that. layers But

55:40

I just to the idea that it's like,

55:42

idea that regardless of what happens in this

55:44

moment. in this moment, it's the two of

55:47

them, they're in it together. If they

55:49

do die together, that's what's happening. know what

55:51

I mean? what I I don't think in

55:53

that moment in saying, I he's gonna kill you.

55:55

I don't think that's what he's saying. think

55:57

think he's just saying. I think he's just

55:59

saying, look, you're in this with me,

56:01

whatever happens is it's happening together. And

56:03

I think that's kind of the main

56:05

reason for that. Yeah. I like that

56:07

interpretation better. Yeah, I mean, and that's

56:09

funny because it never occurred to me

56:11

that that's what he could have meant.

56:13

And I don't think that, like you

56:15

said, even though they're pointing the guns

56:17

at each other, I don't think that's

56:19

ever really a question that that's gonna

56:21

happen. I feel like that's just like

56:23

a typical. reaction almost as like a

56:26

cop like like as a as an

56:28

FBI agent type thing like okay I

56:30

don't know what just happened all I

56:32

know is that you shot me and

56:34

so I'm defending myself you know but

56:36

I don't think it ever actually crosses

56:38

either of their minds to pull the

56:40

trigger you know I mean like I

56:42

don't think that that's really ever going

56:44

to happen so in a weird way

56:46

I feel like Maurice and Lida's plan

56:48

was kind of doomed from the start

56:50

like I don't think it would have

56:52

happened but luckily you know Mulder gets

56:54

to... you know, break free of it.

56:56

So yeah, because I mean, my reason

56:58

why I think their plan was extremely

57:00

well executed. Yeah, they can't fault them

57:02

on any level, you know, the psychoanalysis,

57:04

the planting the seeds, everything was done.

57:06

I mean, and then the whole scenario

57:08

of who shoot to and people are

57:11

getting shot, they pulled it off perfectly.

57:13

Their plan is flawless. The only reason

57:15

it doesn't succeed is because Mulder and

57:17

Scully are who they are and because

57:19

of the relationship they have. Yeah, I

57:21

agree with that completely. It's very heartwarming.

57:23

It's a super heartwarming murdery scene. Yeah.

57:25

It's very romantic. It really is. It's

57:27

weirdly romantic. And then when they kind

57:29

of get up and they run out

57:31

and then we see that there is

57:33

no blood, there's nothing. Yeah, it's a

57:35

very cool sort of moment, isn't it?

57:37

David makes a really kind of cute

57:39

face like, oh, holy shit, let's get

57:41

out of here, you know, and like

57:43

pushes her, like, again, probably touching her

57:45

back and guiding her that she has

57:47

on. in Malagro when she's like covered

57:49

with blood at the end and I'm

57:51

thinking that's like Scully's super unlucky outfit

57:53

that she always seems to be covered

57:56

in blood when she has that particular

57:58

blouse jacket. You're right. It just looks

58:00

really similar to me. It just looks

58:02

really similar to me. It just kind

58:04

of it's evocative. You're right. She just

58:06

always seems to wind up covered in

58:08

blood when she's wearing that. When she's

58:10

wearing that. Yeah, so she also got

58:12

kidnapped and stung by bees and cock

58:14

locked in that outfit. It's a great

58:16

outfit and she might be wearing something

58:18

similar when she gets shot in Tithynus

58:20

too actually. And just seems to, she

58:22

gets covered in blood a lot of

58:24

poor lamb. So, I noticed that. Yeah,

58:26

she went through a lot of shit

58:28

in this season. She did. That reminds

58:30

me also that I love that bit

58:32

as a complete decide again, where Mulder's

58:34

going to find the bodies under the

58:36

floor and they're wearing the same clothes.

58:38

That's how they thought that it's them.

58:41

It's funny the way the way they

58:43

see it unfolds, because at first it's

58:45

only like, she's got my other bed

58:47

and what does Mulder say? He says,

58:49

oh, embarrassing. Which is hilarious. That's such

58:51

a molder line. I love it. It's

58:53

such a molder line. And then Scully

58:55

says, yeah, well, you know what? He's

58:57

he's where yours. And that's when like,

58:59

they're like, they're super freaked out at

59:01

that moment. And I love that moment,

59:03

actually, because up until that point, it's

59:05

a fairly light-hearted episode. And that moment,

59:07

everything just turns around and it gets

59:09

super scary spooky. but I always wonder

59:11

what the deal was with that too,

59:13

like was the the idea just to

59:15

freak them out, like to think so.

59:17

Because they also, you know, Maurice and

59:19

Lida obviously have the ability to project

59:21

whatever they want, probably, in whatever way,

59:23

and who knows how ghosts work, like

59:26

we said, they have all their own

59:28

little rules, but like they obviously know

59:30

what they're wearing because they see them,

59:32

so they're able to just sort of

59:34

like pick the outfits that they happen

59:36

to be. wearing you would

59:38

have been been freakier if it

59:40

had been it had

59:42

been like like David's gray shirt

59:44

or like gray shirt a

59:46

like outfit and a

59:48

different outfit and then

59:50

be like they'd

59:52

be like wait a

59:54

minute but my shirt

59:56

but that's the

59:58

one I wore yesterday

1:00:00

what the fuck extra creepy right like

1:00:02

how do they know that how would

1:00:04

they know how do

1:00:06

they know that they

1:00:08

would they know their

1:00:11

clothes they obviously

1:00:13

they know them because

1:00:15

that's what they're

1:00:17

wearing right now anyway

1:00:19

now anyway It sort of creates this

1:00:21

of creates this

1:00:23

sense of inevitability yeah

1:00:25

has already already happened a

1:00:27

a certain level Yeah.

1:00:29

It cannot be be Right, right. I I

1:00:31

get on a practical level why level

1:00:33

did it. But I was just

1:00:35

I thinking that in retrospect, that in

1:00:37

would that be freaky or if

1:00:39

they actually somehow knew their their

1:00:41

real knew they're real Yeah, close. Yeah, I I

1:00:43

don't know. I don't know. But it it was

1:00:45

cool. I thought it was really

1:00:47

cool. cool. you know, plus, you know, leather

1:00:49

leather Oh, yeah, Oh yeah. my favorite looks so

1:00:51

he liked leather jacket a a lot in

1:00:53

this season. Yeah, and I love it and I

1:00:55

love it every time because a

1:00:58

lot of the they're doing cases

1:01:00

outside of the FBI, like in

1:01:02

this case, because they're not assigned

1:01:04

to the X they're not assigned so X

1:01:06

get some opportunities for non get clothes.

1:01:08

for non-FBI clothes. Although it's not mean, Scully. I mean, she

1:01:10

put some jeans Scully. Yeah, she thinks is what she

1:01:12

what she went for shopping, apparently. Yeah,

1:01:14

remember this, this is I remember of

1:01:16

was one of my huge pet

1:01:18

peeves about the show. I I feel

1:01:20

like Scully's clothes was such a a

1:01:22

big pet. one my pet my pet

1:01:24

peeve list. I annoyed so annoyed they

1:01:26

never dress her in anything

1:01:28

casual. anything casual Yeah, because I mean, Mulder's

1:01:31

very casual in this episode. Why can't

1:01:33

she be a little more casual? Come

1:01:35

on. I mean, it doesn't even, it

1:01:37

doesn't even need to more her character. Like

1:01:39

we've seen her wearing casual clothes at

1:01:41

home even occasion. like affect her it's like, like

1:01:43

still know her It's fine. Exactly. I don't

1:01:45

know. It just drives me nuts when

1:01:47

she's wearing so work clothes, like still the

1:01:49

time. Like, come on. fine Give her

1:01:51

a freaking sweatpants. Yeah, no,

1:01:54

exactly. That would exactly. nice. That would

1:01:56

have been nice. That would have been

1:01:58

a treat. Yeah. And anyway, they were, they were. they were

1:02:00

dressed really similarly because they're both wearing

1:02:02

sort of white tops with something black

1:02:04

over it. Right, right. Anyway, random tangent,

1:02:06

but I always have to bring that

1:02:08

up because these are the things that

1:02:11

trouble me most in the world. They're

1:02:13

the red tangent things. Yeah. Anyway, let's

1:02:15

move into the final scene of cuteness.

1:02:17

What do you say? Oh God, yes,

1:02:19

let's. I love them. scene of cuteness

1:02:21

yeah I mean who doesn't it's so

1:02:23

cute I mean we know that our

1:02:25

co-dependent scully has to come to Mulder

1:02:27

in the middle of the night it's

1:02:30

cute because it is kind of a

1:02:32

backwards thing like usually he's the one

1:02:34

calling her in the middle of the

1:02:36

night like waking her up for a

1:02:38

random you know random bullshit but like

1:02:40

for this he didn't like for this

1:02:42

he comes to him and you could

1:02:44

you could tell probably he would have

1:02:46

liked to have called her in tune

1:02:49

with what they've been told. Like, they're

1:02:51

both sort of, I don't want to

1:02:53

say feeding into it or giving into

1:02:55

it, but they're both sort of like

1:02:57

absorbing that and realizing that, you know,

1:02:59

it's true, part of it is true.

1:03:01

And that, and even their behavior and

1:03:03

the way they approach each other is.

1:03:05

born out through that. I just find

1:03:07

that really interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No,

1:03:10

I think that's very, very cool as

1:03:12

well and very, yeah, it's very compelling.

1:03:14

I love the bit when Scully shows

1:03:16

up at the door. First, first Mulder

1:03:18

can't believe she's there because he thinks

1:03:20

it's his neighbor knocking on the his

1:03:22

ceiling or something because he looks up.

1:03:24

Oh no, he thinks it's ghost. Oh,

1:03:26

totally. That was always. That was always.

1:03:29

that's funny that I was watching a

1:03:31

Christmas Carol I think which of course

1:03:33

is a Christmas story with ghosts in

1:03:35

it which is cool yeah so I

1:03:37

love it when Scully shows up and

1:03:39

she just doesn't quite know how to

1:03:41

articulate exactly what she's there for and

1:03:43

eventually just says can I come in

1:03:45

and it's just kind of like it's

1:03:48

just a very sweet little moment between

1:03:50

them and Scully doesn't ask for that

1:03:52

kind of thing very often so it

1:03:54

was just kind of very sweet Yeah.

1:03:56

I just love it. just

1:03:58

love it. I love

1:04:00

the whole vibe

1:04:02

between them you know, And, you

1:04:04

know, yeah, they're they're being a little more

1:04:06

self more and that. and that moment

1:04:09

when, you know, Scully says, you

1:04:11

know, maybe I did want to

1:04:13

be I there with you. And

1:04:15

it's just very sweet. it's it's just,

1:04:17

it's just, it's just one of those

1:04:19

wonderful of those wonderful, look moments. They

1:04:21

just share a lovely look. a It's

1:04:23

rare. It's rare, of naked honesty. don't We

1:04:26

don't see that very often with the

1:04:28

two of them that they actually talk

1:04:30

about how they're feeling honest about it.

1:04:32

honest about it yeah and to do the

1:04:34

right thing and trying to say the

1:04:36

right thing. to say and they're even kind

1:04:38

of like she says of like she says asking

1:04:41

him is that really Is that really like was that

1:04:43

that all just in our heads? It's like,

1:04:45

she's not coming at him like she

1:04:47

normally would. normally would say oh you're full of shit.

1:04:49

know, she's not doing that. know, she's -

1:04:51

That's right. she's right there they're They're reacting to each

1:04:53

other a little bit differently, like he. like

1:04:55

he he's smarmy like Mulder and he's like, well what you

1:04:57

didn't want to be out there? And then he

1:04:59

kind of goes, then he wait, wait. oh wait wait narcissistic

1:05:02

of me. of me like he's catching himself. She

1:05:04

probably has no idea what he's talking about,

1:05:06

but likewise is like, she does the same

1:05:08

thing. Whereas does the same thing whereas might just kind of

1:05:10

roll her eyes. She, eyes she she tells tells him

1:05:12

the truth. she know, she says, you know,

1:05:14

maybe I did. Maybe I just did want

1:05:16

to be out there. to be out there goes back

1:05:18

to the beginning. the beginning with her her coming out

1:05:20

of the car like, like, I'm not gonna

1:05:22

do it. It's my New Year's resolution. gonna do it,

1:05:24

do it. Which is is another very

1:05:26

funny moment, but it makes me

1:05:28

wonder What her, what actually compels

1:05:30

her? follow him. And it's that it's mean goes always

1:05:32

as every week to follow him just

1:05:34

wanted to be that it's the about to

1:05:37

that question bring up it's as simple as

1:05:39

you just to be there? we

1:05:41

went past you because that about past I wanted to

1:05:43

bring it up to you because we went past

1:05:45

the in the the Christmas Christmas that that they. that they. were

1:05:47

were showing the moment at the

1:05:49

end at the were Scrooge, you know, it figures out

1:05:51

the true meaning of Christmas. meaning of Christmas.

1:05:53

happy. so happy. Yeah, he says, I think

1:05:55

the line is actually, is don't

1:05:57

deserve to be this happy. to be this

1:05:59

happy. Yeah. That's when they cut to Mulder, I

1:06:02

think. That's when they cut to Mulder.

1:06:04

And I think that's just, it's very,

1:06:06

very pointed, you know, and obviously very

1:06:08

intentional. And it's just one of those

1:06:10

things that I'm constantly, it's a constant

1:06:12

push pole with Mulder and Scully, how

1:06:14

rarely they're allowed these moments of levity

1:06:16

or happiness. It's almost like, it's almost

1:06:18

like they, the show people don't think

1:06:20

they deserve to be happy. Yeah, it's

1:06:22

just one of those things that kind

1:06:24

of, you cut to that shot of

1:06:26

Mulder and he's just thinking so hard

1:06:28

and you're like, no, you do deserve

1:06:30

to be happy. Have your little moment

1:06:32

and they get to. You know what

1:06:34

I mean? It's very sweet. Yeah, yeah,

1:06:36

because I think Mulder does, it is

1:06:38

quite likely that Mulder doesn't believe he

1:06:40

deserves to be happy. I think that

1:06:42

could easily be part of his psyche

1:06:44

because of a lot of shit that

1:06:46

he's been through. Absolutely. he's proven wrong

1:06:48

just a few minutes later when Scully

1:06:50

shows up in happy happy christmas gift

1:06:52

exchange yeah it's so cute and they

1:06:54

are truly happy they are they're very

1:06:56

happy we get to see that rare

1:06:58

little scilly smile that we don't really

1:07:00

ever get to see and I kind

1:07:02

of forgot that we got to see

1:07:04

that in this episode I really did

1:07:07

because it is rare I mean we

1:07:09

get to see your smile occasionally but

1:07:11

that particular smile is very rare and

1:07:13

it is one of those moments where

1:07:15

they both are genuinely happy and I

1:07:17

love the idea I love the idea

1:07:19

that we don't See what is in

1:07:21

the presence. It's definitely one of those

1:07:23

things that it always baffles me because

1:07:25

the same people that probably love The

1:07:27

ending of this and how we kind

1:07:29

of pan out and give them their

1:07:31

moment are the same people that hate

1:07:33

the the church whisper Yeah, and it's

1:07:35

it's the same exact thing. It's you

1:07:37

know what? This is not just this

1:07:39

is another X file, but this is

1:07:41

them having their moment and you know

1:07:43

what? We don't get to see it

1:07:45

we're not going to get to see

1:07:47

it because it's for them. And I

1:07:49

think that's kind of cute and I

1:07:51

like it, especially here. It's I

1:07:53

I mean, I think

1:07:55

I thought about

1:07:57

that a lot when

1:07:59

you know nothing forever

1:08:01

and we and we the

1:08:03

whisper I mean,

1:08:05

it's never going to stop stop

1:08:07

being a question. just Just like

1:08:09

these Christmas Just like these Christmas gifts. It's

1:08:11

they're never gonna stop being. being

1:08:14

talked about what in in those in those Christmas And

1:08:16

I mean, that's brilliant. I mean beautiful. That's

1:08:18

exactly what they're trying to create. mean,

1:08:20

know, Frank what our new friend, to mentioned

1:08:22

that when we were talking to him

1:08:24

that, you know, they our new the idea

1:08:26

that people are still talking about the

1:08:28

stuff years later. that you know what they wanted

1:08:30

to create. And people did they. How

1:08:32

they lead it to a question is

1:08:34

what he said. It's like you use

1:08:36

all these different methods not to necessarily

1:08:38

get an explanation or an answer, but

1:08:40

to lead to another question. is what

1:08:43

they do it so good. very cool. it's

1:08:45

and it's always, know, we get just enough

1:08:47

answers so that we're not constantly frustrated.

1:08:49

Right. Right. You know, know, it's frustrating in

1:08:51

kind of a fun way, but

1:08:53

not frustrating in kind of a, I

1:08:55

just give up just give up and I'm out

1:08:57

because I've done that with TV

1:08:59

shows where it's kind of like, of like,

1:09:01

giving me nothing. I'm completely confused. confused,

1:09:04

I know where this is going. I

1:09:06

don't understand any of this. You're not

1:09:08

giving me any answers. And it's like, and

1:09:10

you're you're done. But, you know, the the Xbox kept

1:09:13

me coming back. back. They just always managed

1:09:15

to have that balance of just. of just... giving

1:09:17

me enough to keep me going. going they do

1:09:19

a brilliant job. And this is a great

1:09:21

example of it. know, this isn't about an alien,

1:09:23

know, this a Christmas present, an but it's the same,

1:09:25

it's the same principle, which is but it's the enough

1:09:27

and the way they sort of just enough

1:09:29

through the sort of pull back through the is

1:09:31

very much like, you know, we're

1:09:33

leaving them now, which I think

1:09:36

is kind of a little similar

1:09:38

to the end to the end of existence

1:09:40

at the end of of season 8.

1:09:42

The very last very last shot and

1:09:44

and Scully together. the camera the

1:09:46

camera sort of pans out bedroom

1:09:48

the bedroom door to kind of like

1:09:51

we're leaving them now. So it's kind

1:09:53

of a similar kind of vibe,

1:09:55

which is which of nice nice because like

1:09:57

that that. to have happiness and

1:09:59

peace. and peace. I mean, absolutely, and on the

1:10:01

flip side of that, you can take

1:10:04

an episode like Never Again, and it

1:10:06

ends the same way, but just in

1:10:08

a different vibe with a different tone.

1:10:10

You know, we're panning away from the

1:10:13

two of them sitting with that desk

1:10:15

between them. And we're leaving them. And

1:10:17

we're leaving them now. And we don't

1:10:19

know how that resolves. We don't know

1:10:22

how that happens. And I feel like

1:10:24

that is just the name of the

1:10:26

game here. And this is just one

1:10:29

of those particularly... very well illustrated moments.

1:10:31

So, I mean, you gotta ask you

1:10:33

Jen, you have any theories about what's

1:10:35

in those presents? About the gifts? Yeah.

1:10:38

I mean, they've taken, they've made them

1:10:40

quite interesting shapes, haven't they? They didn't

1:10:42

just go with standard boxes. Well, I

1:10:45

think it's pretty clear. Bolzer has a

1:10:47

video. It looks like I think a

1:10:49

video is a very good guess for

1:10:51

the way he shakes it too in

1:10:54

the size seems like a video to

1:10:56

me I mean I if I had

1:10:58

to guess it's something kind of jokey

1:11:01

probably like something paranormal I mean you

1:11:03

can get so many crazy paranormal videos

1:11:05

especially in the 90s so it could

1:11:07

be something like you know sex secrets

1:11:10

of the Sasquatch or something like that

1:11:12

just something really like something that somehow

1:11:14

pull that sort of that sort of

1:11:16

of plays into his love of porn

1:11:19

and his love of the paranormal. I

1:11:21

agree with you. Completely because I totally,

1:11:23

that was in my head cannon was

1:11:26

that she got him some sort of

1:11:28

like alien anal probe porno video. Yeah,

1:11:30

just as a joke because I just

1:11:32

think that I could totally see that

1:11:35

actually happening. Because they've been so comfortable

1:11:37

joking about the porn for six years

1:11:39

that I just think that would be

1:11:42

hilarious. I think that's exactly probably what

1:11:44

it is. Now of course Scully is

1:11:46

an interesting shape. Yeah. It's cylindrical and

1:11:48

I'm going to pick something less commonly

1:11:51

suggested and I'm going to say it's

1:11:53

like some kind of goofy kids toy

1:11:55

of some kind like a kaleidoscope or

1:11:58

something. Something with a hint of whimsy.

1:12:00

Yeah, I feel like I read that

1:12:02

in like a thick or something that

1:12:04

it was a kaleidoscope is very cute

1:12:07

and very sweet. Yeah, I've read a

1:12:09

bunch of different things. I mean, we

1:12:11

got to give Jillian a shout-out, a

1:12:13

one of the panels. It was so

1:12:16

brilliant. They were talking about that. They

1:12:18

asked them, David and Jillian, what they

1:12:20

thought was in the presence. And she

1:12:23

goes, what season was that? And they

1:12:25

were like, and she's like, well, well,

1:12:27

I know what I know what I

1:12:29

needed. And they were laughing and I

1:12:32

think David was like well it is

1:12:34

it was cylindrical shape and she goes

1:12:36

oh well there you go. It was

1:12:39

so funny I just it was established

1:12:41

it makes me wonder like they don't

1:12:43

plan that shit I mean these are

1:12:45

audience questions right it was just it

1:12:48

was so funny it was just such

1:12:50

a very well-played moment I always remember

1:12:52

it's what's your guess for Scully? Well

1:12:55

I just told you no. I honestly

1:12:57

don't know. I actually don't think I

1:12:59

really don't think I really subscribe to

1:13:01

that theory because I just think I

1:13:04

think with everything going on in season

1:13:06

six I think there's a lot there's

1:13:08

too much tension. Yeah it's too much

1:13:10

underlying tension for that to be the

1:13:13

gift. I think that he might have

1:13:15

given that to her even like in

1:13:17

season five and may and probably in

1:13:20

season seven I feel like that would

1:13:22

have happened even but I don't. think

1:13:24

in season six i don't know i

1:13:26

think it's funny close to the phone

1:13:29

maybe no pun intended yeah i don't

1:13:31

know i mean actually once i kind

1:13:33

of checked that idea i would i

1:13:36

went back to the drawing board and

1:13:38

i really don't know but i like

1:13:40

the idea of like a kaleidoscope or

1:13:42

something like that i think that's yeah

1:13:45

something kind of fun yeah for Scully

1:13:47

to have a little bit of fun

1:13:49

in her life, something kind of fun

1:13:52

and whimsical. So that's as much as

1:13:54

I've been able to figure out. I

1:13:56

am, I, no doubt, Chris Carter has

1:13:58

no clue what those gifts were necessary

1:14:01

to be, but he was like, just

1:14:03

put them in weird, interesting shapes. So

1:14:05

that it'll give the fans something to

1:14:07

talk about. Well, here's the thing. I'm

1:14:10

100% convinced that that's an actual videotape.

1:14:12

So I'm curious what, even though it's

1:14:14

not the videotape, I'm curious what videotape

1:14:17

they wrapped. Like, you know what I

1:14:19

mean? Because it had to be something.

1:14:21

Yeah. Do they just have like a

1:14:23

blank one or something? A blank videotapes

1:14:26

around? I mean. My house had like

1:14:28

blank videotapes on every horizontal surface. So

1:14:30

I don't know if TV, if TV

1:14:33

studios are like that. They are. I

1:14:35

mean, around that time, they probably are.

1:14:37

I'm sure they were able to find

1:14:39

something which is really cute. I mean,

1:14:42

some poor PA. They're like, oh shit,

1:14:44

we gotta get those gifts wrapped. Go

1:14:46

find a, go find a video. Wrap

1:14:49

that right now. But I wonder too

1:14:51

about like, like, like. Scully's could literally

1:14:53

be like a paper towel roll. Yeah,

1:14:55

right? What I'm thinking it is. That's

1:14:58

what it looks like. Yeah, I was

1:15:00

like, well, something was wrapped. I feel

1:15:02

like whatever the gifts were, they were

1:15:05

freaking adorable. Yeah, I love it. I

1:15:07

love it. I love it. Well, what,

1:15:09

before we, before we head out, which

1:15:11

do you have, can you, do you

1:15:14

have anything else that we didn't get

1:15:16

to talk about any highlights or scenes

1:15:18

or scenes that stood that stood out

1:15:20

for you? of this episode, they work

1:15:23

really well together. I've watched it a

1:15:25

lot, like it's right up there. I

1:15:27

mean, it's my number 15 on my

1:15:30

top 25 in terms of how much

1:15:32

I love it, but in terms of

1:15:34

the number of times I've watched it,

1:15:36

it probably makes it the top 10

1:15:39

at least, because it's just the kind

1:15:41

of episode I can just watch over

1:15:43

and over again. And there's nothing about

1:15:46

it that I don't like really. So

1:15:48

I'm glad we had a chance to

1:15:50

break it down and talk about all

1:15:52

my favorite things about it. Yeah, I

1:15:55

think we talked about pretty much everything.

1:15:57

The only thing I wanted to mention

1:15:59

that was just so random and would

1:16:02

never ever come up in any other

1:16:04

episode ever was the part where Mulder

1:16:06

is like up on the landing and

1:16:08

light is there and he's like kind

1:16:11

of looking for an exit and he

1:16:13

kind of picks her up and like

1:16:15

moves her aside and she goes mash

1:16:17

her. I think that's like so funny

1:16:20

and random and it's all Also another

1:16:22

one of those throwaway lines I don't

1:16:24

like we talked about like last week

1:16:27

or the last episode when when Sheila's

1:16:29

yelling not his face don't punch him

1:16:31

in the face it's it's one of

1:16:33

those things that you might not catch

1:16:36

every time but like every time I

1:16:38

see it I look for it because

1:16:40

I just find the way she delivers

1:16:43

that line so funny she's like measure

1:16:45

oh so good every slide she delivers

1:16:47

is is gold for me yeah yeah

1:16:49

And yeah, I mean, is that all

1:16:52

you really had to say or is

1:16:54

you have anything? That's it. I love

1:16:56

how the ghost stole Christmas and everyone

1:16:59

should definitely watch it at Christmas time

1:17:01

because there's a lot. a very valuable

1:17:03

stuff you can take from it at

1:17:05

any time of year. I rarely watch

1:17:08

it at Christmas. This is probably the

1:17:10

first time I've actually watched it at

1:17:12

Christmas, since it originally aired, just because

1:17:14

I watch it, you know, randomly throughout

1:17:17

the year. Yeah, same. It was kind

1:17:19

of fun to watch it at Christmas

1:17:21

time. So I highly recommend everyone when

1:17:24

you finish listening. Go put it on.

1:17:26

It'll make you feel many different things,

1:17:28

which the Xbox always does. It was

1:17:30

nice to watch it with like the

1:17:33

Christmas tree in the background. Well, anyway,

1:17:35

guys, thank you for listening. And please

1:17:37

tweet at us. Let us know what

1:17:40

you think of this episode. I know

1:17:42

pretty much everyone, I think, loves this

1:17:44

episode universally. But we'd like to hear

1:17:46

from you guys at XFD podcast, tweet

1:17:49

at us. Let us know what you

1:17:51

think. And, you know, whatever you happen

1:17:53

to celebrate. Hope you guys have a

1:17:56

happy holiday this year, and we'll be

1:17:58

back with you after the new year.

1:18:00

Bye. Let yourself a merry little Christmas.

1:18:02

Make the you'll tie. Have yourself a

1:18:05

merry little Christmas. Make the you'll tide

1:18:07

gay. From now on

1:18:09

our troubles will

1:18:11

be miles away Here

1:18:14

we are as

1:18:16

in olden days, happy

1:18:18

golden days of

1:18:21

yore Faithful friends who

1:18:23

are dear to

1:18:25

us, gather near to

1:18:27

us once more. Through

1:18:31

the years we

1:18:33

all will be

1:18:35

together if the

1:18:37

faith allows. Until

1:18:41

then we'll have

1:18:43

to muddle through

1:18:45

somehow. So

1:18:50

have yourself

1:18:52

a merry

1:18:54

little Christmas

1:18:56

now. Here

1:19:00

we are

1:19:02

as in olden

1:19:04

days, happy

1:19:06

golden days of

1:19:08

yore. Faithful

1:19:10

friends who are

1:19:12

dear to

1:19:14

us, gather near

1:19:16

to us

1:19:18

once more. Through

1:19:21

the years we

1:19:24

all will be together

1:19:26

if the faith

1:19:28

allows. Hang

1:19:31

a

1:19:33

shining star

1:19:35

upon

1:19:37

the highest

1:19:40

bow

1:19:42

And have

1:19:44

yourself

1:19:46

a merry

1:19:48

little

1:19:50

Christmas now.

1:20:03

You