0:00

You and Me Both is a production of

0:02

I Heart Radio. I'm

0:06

Hillary Clinton and I'm America

0:08

Ferrera and together we're

0:10

bringing you a very special

0:12

edition of You and Me Both. It's

0:15

a companion guide, you could call it for

0:17

election Day. I am

0:19

thrilled to be here with America.

0:22

You probably know her as the Emmy

0:24

Award winning actor for Ugly

0:26

Betty, and you're probably watching her

0:29

amazing show Superstore,

0:31

but you may not know she's a triathlete,

0:34

which just blows me away. And

0:36

she's someone who I first met

0:38

on the campaign trail back in two thousand

0:41

and eight, and I've been honored to have her

0:43

support and friendship in the years

0:45

since. I

0:51

was so excited to be having this conversation with

0:53

you because I have a number of

0:55

text chains that started on election

0:57

night and have persisted

1:00

it for four years. And

1:02

here we are, four years

1:04

later at this presidential election,

1:06

and what everyone around

1:09

me is sensing is

1:12

so much anxiety, so much

1:14

fear. I mean, I feel it taking a

1:16

toll on me physically, mentally. I'm

1:19

literally wearing bright colors just to

1:21

stay hopeful. I'm like, I have

1:23

to do everything in my power

1:26

to like stay above this

1:29

this, you know, and I don't use

1:31

this term lightly because I know that it's

1:34

serious. But I think we have collective

1:37

PTSD. Yes, I know we do.

1:39

I am so curious, what are you going to do on election

1:42

Day? Like, how are you going to get through it? Because I have

1:44

no idea what I'm gonna do. You

1:46

know, I'm anxious because

1:49

this time four years ago, I thought I was

1:51

going to win, and that's what, you know, it

1:53

appeared to be. So when it

1:55

comes to election day, for the longest time, I

1:58

thought I would vote early. But then

2:00

I've been wondering, well, what will I do

2:02

on election How will I organize

2:04

my time if I'm not like planning

2:07

to go vote and standing in line

2:09

and doing what you do when you go to vote.

2:12

So I don't know yet, America.

2:14

I'm trying to be

2:16

as calm and focused

2:19

as I can, and right

2:22

now I'm going to practice a lot of deep breathing.

2:24

I think that would be the best way

2:26

to get through the next few days. Reminder,

2:32

so here's our game plan for today.

2:34

You can get all the election related punditry

2:36

you want. You can look at all the polls till

2:38

your eyes cross. You can do that

2:41

NonStop over the next

2:43

or who knows how many hours this

2:46

is not that let me let me be right

2:48

up front with you. Yeah, and thank God for

2:51

that. Instead,

2:54

America and I are introducing you

2:56

to people across our country who

2:58

are working their hearts

3:00

out for this election, all in different

3:03

ways. Yeah, we're talking to a

3:05

candidate for the state House in Tennessee,

3:07

and a first time voter in North Carolina,

3:10

and a seventeen year old and Georgia

3:12

who is too young to vote but has

3:14

put everything she has into getting

3:16

other people to participate in the elections,

3:19

and a veteran organizer.

3:22

And we also get to check in with some of our

3:24

favorite pals out there doing incredible

3:27

work, Kalpenn, Zelina Maxwell

3:30

and the fabulous gillin In Doyle.

3:32

So we're gonna take a little time

3:35

to breathe together. We

3:37

helped to have a few laughs together and

3:39

to be inspired together.

3:42

Ready, America, I am so ready.

3:44

Let's do this. First

3:47

up, I want to introduce Mallory

3:49

Rogers. Now. Malory is a seventeen

3:51

year old high school student in Rome,

3:54

Georgia, and even though

3:56

she can't vote yet, she is very

3:59

involved in politics. Hey,

4:02

Mallory, are you hi? Hi?

4:04

I am so great, and it's a

4:07

thrill to be talking

4:09

with you today. You're doing

4:11

what I wish every young person,

4:13

everybody in high school would do, and that's

4:15

getting involved in our elections

4:17

and politics right now. I think

4:19

it's so inspiring, and I would

4:22

love for you to tell me, you know how

4:24

you got involved and what you've been doing. I

4:26

actually got involved with our local League

4:28

of Women Voters. They asked me to sign up

4:31

to be a poor worker, and so I did.

4:33

And then after that I kind of kept getting

4:35

involved and went support of elections

4:37

meetings and registered voters and doing

4:39

everything I can to make democracy work. I

4:42

love that you got involved through the League

4:44

of Women Voters, a group that I am

4:47

a huge supporter of, and

4:49

you started your high school's

4:51

first political club called the

4:53

League of Young Voters. Tell me about that.

4:56

So we actually it's the first political club. Like you

4:58

said, we're non partisan, so

5:00

we we don't pick side either way. That way we can

5:02

get more done. I feel like it's easier to get

5:04

stuffed on human Yes, and

5:07

so we um had a voter registration drive

5:09

on National Voter Registration Day, which

5:11

was difficult with COVID, but we still we got

5:13

thirty when people registered, which was exciting. Yes,

5:16

and we've been doing community drives and

5:19

I think we have eleven or twelve people who have signed

5:21

up to work the polls from the club, and these

5:23

are people most people in the club can't actually vote,

5:26

but we're over sixteen so we can work the poles

5:28

in Georgia. You're doing something really

5:31

important because, as you know, given

5:33

COVID nineteen, there's a major

5:35

shortage of poll workers since

5:38

historically poll workers

5:40

have been retired people you know, who could

5:42

spend the whole day at the polls.

5:44

We can't have free and fair elections

5:47

without poll workers, and so

5:49

you have really been on the front

5:51

lines. How did you even know about this back

5:54

in June and sign up to do it? I was sorry.

5:56

I actually signed up when our primary is supposed

5:58

to be in March. So I was sixteen when I first signed

6:00

up, and um, it was the League of Women

6:02

Voters. But after I worked in June,

6:05

I got my friends to work in August because

6:07

they needed even more people because there was a shortage,

6:10

like you said, for COVID nineteen. So

6:12

eight of us worked in August and that was a really

6:14

rewarding experience to work with my friends

6:17

and we actually pushed to get bilingual poll workers

6:19

here in Floyd County because when I started,

6:21

they had no bilingual po workers at all,

6:24

and we have a large Spanish speaking population

6:26

here in Floyd County. So two of

6:28

my friends who are bilingual signed up, and

6:30

then I think we had two more of my friends who are bilingual

6:32

sign up for November, so we'll have four bilingual

6:35

poll workers, which is not a lot, but it's better

6:37

than none. I think that is terrific

6:39

that you you saw need. I love

6:42

this about you, Malory. You saw need and

6:44

you decided that you were going to help meet

6:47

it. You're going to solve the problem. So when

6:49

you've been interacting with your community,

6:52

have you had any memorable encounters

6:54

or conversations as you're registering voters

6:56

or checking in people as a poll worker.

6:59

Yes. So we had one voter

7:01

registration drive where we had a lady come

7:04

up who was a felon, and so we

7:06

asked her if she was off paper, because you can register

7:08

TOBOT after you're off paper, and she said she

7:10

was as of a few months ago. So we

7:12

started to sign her up and she registered,

7:14

and it was such an exciting experience because she gets

7:16

to vote again, and she didn't know that she could register

7:19

again. She thought that she would never be able to vote

7:21

again. So she was so excited, and we had

7:23

all these people who were hoping to register her, like

7:25

a league of women voters and some people from

7:27

a Black Lives Matter protest, and we were just

7:29

all there together celebrating her voting

7:31

again. And that was That's a really rememberable

7:34

experience for me. So what are your

7:36

plans for election day? You're

7:38

gonna be at the polls? What time in the morning,

7:40

Yes, ma'am, I will be there at six am with a

7:42

cup of coffee.

7:46

And are you signed up to be there the whole day?

7:48

Yes. We actually worked for fifteen hours in

7:50

August, so I'm hoping that it only goes till

7:52

seven this time and we have no technical difficulties,

7:55

but I'll be there the whole day. Well,

7:57

I am very grateful that you

7:59

and and thousands of you know, young people

8:02

like you are showing up to work at the

8:04

polls because that's the only way we can run

8:06

our elections. Now, let me ask

8:08

you this, Malory. I'm really impressed

8:10

by you. Also, you said a picture of

8:12

yourself when you were five years old

8:15

wearing a pin supporting me and

8:17

the two eight presidential campaign. So

8:19

you've been on the front lines

8:22

of caring about politics literally

8:24

your entire life. What

8:27

are you interested in doing after high school?

8:29

That is a great question. I've

8:32

always thought that I would do STEM because I'm really

8:34

interested in math, But after getting involved

8:37

with politics recently, I really am interested

8:39

in public policy and possibly

8:41

working on a campaign or maybe

8:43

going into politics myself, I have but I

8:45

have no idea at the moment, so we'll see. Well,

8:48

one thing I would suggest is someone

8:50

who is interested in STEM, and particularly

8:52

someone who likes masks like you just said, don't

8:55

lose that because we need

8:58

people in public life where they're

9:00

they're elected officials or working

9:02

in government in some way who have

9:04

those skills. So I hope

9:07

that you'll be able to put

9:10

to work the skills that you

9:12

have in STEM. But I just want

9:14

to tell you how proud I am of you, and

9:17

I hope more young people who hear this podcast

9:20

or are told about it will think about

9:22

being poll workers too. Thank you, yes,

9:24

man, I hope said to you. Thank you so light. I

9:31

love the fact America that Malory is

9:34

going to be a poll watcher

9:36

to make sure that our elections work the way they

9:38

should. Yeah, Malory is

9:40

so incredibly impressive,

9:42

And what I was thinking listening

9:44

to your interview with her was just I

9:47

feel passionate that young people

9:49

across this country should, all of

9:51

us, should have opportunities like Mallory

9:54

early on to really get involved.

9:56

And I just think it's so inspiring when

9:58

young people have that opportunity,

10:01

which brings us to, you know, our our

10:03

next young person who

10:05

is also really looking forward to this election.

10:08

Those of you listening, you may not know his name, but

10:11

chances are you've heard his story. His

10:13

name is Justin Blackman, and he became

10:16

an activist two years ago after

10:18

the tragic school shooting at Marjorie Stoneman

10:21

Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida.

10:24

And a month after the shooting, survivors

10:26

of that shooting organized a national

10:28

walkout at schools across the country.

10:31

And here was Justin in Wilson, North

10:33

Carolina. On the day of this national

10:36

walkout, he walks out

10:38

of his class and finds himself standing

10:41

completely alone in his school's

10:43

parking lot, and no one else

10:46

walked out with him. He was on his own, and

10:49

he recorded a short video

10:51

and the video went viral, and this

10:53

year, Justin is eighteen,

10:56

so he gets to vote, so

10:58

we really wanted to check get with him and see

11:00

how he was feeling about this election. Hey

11:03

Justin, Hello, Hi, I'm

11:05

doing all right. How are you doing? I'm

11:07

doing fine, just hanging in there, you know. You know,

11:10

before we jump into kind of this

11:12

moment in this election, I would love

11:14

to hear you talk a little bit about

11:16

what happened back in eighteen when

11:19

you were the only student in your school

11:21

to join the National walkout

11:23

Day in support of the

11:26

many students who had experienced

11:28

gun violence in their schools. Tell me the

11:30

story about that day. So

11:32

I remember, like the start of that day, I came into

11:34

school thinking, Okay, this is going to be a different

11:37

day from anybody else because we have a walkout

11:39

day because of the shooting that took place on

11:41

Valentine's Day, I believe, and

11:44

on that day seventeen people died, so

11:46

we had to walk out for seventeen minutes of silence.

11:49

So I did that at my school, and I was

11:51

the only one to do it at my school, and then I

11:54

made like a little but thirty second video. I

11:56

was expecting nobody to see it because at the

11:58

time on Twitter only had like the hundred followers,

12:01

and then literally did I know that that video grew

12:03

to I think six points something

12:05

million views, and ever since

12:08

then, I've been on and off talking

12:10

around activism for gun violence

12:13

and other things. Did

12:15

you think of yourself as a particularly

12:18

engaged active

12:20

citizen before that day or

12:22

did that day change something for you?

12:25

I do feel like I'm pretty active in communities,

12:27

but not necessarily on social media,

12:29

like to help a lot. I like to do a lot of community

12:32

work, but it wasn't never really two

12:34

years ago, before this happened, I wasn't the person to

12:36

say go vote because I wasn't allowed to

12:38

vote myself, and to be quite frank,

12:40

I wasn't necessarily thinking about that at

12:42

that age. But now that I am at

12:45

the age, I'm planning on going with

12:47

a couple of friends to help them vote for the first

12:49

time. And is that is

12:51

that? Like, what is the response you're getting from

12:54

your friends, who your age, who you're

12:56

talking to about voting. Do you feel

12:58

like they are aware of what's

13:00

happening in this moment and what's at stake in this

13:02

moment. I feel like the majority is

13:05

they understand that we need people

13:07

to show up at the polls rather than just retweeting

13:10

a tweet or reposting something

13:12

on Instagram. There's a thirty

13:14

percent that say, oh, my vote doesn't count. Whoever

13:17

wins is gonna win with screwty either way.

13:19

But that's if you have that mindset. Then we were

13:21

we were. We lost in the beginning before we even started.

13:24

And do you think you've managed to change

13:26

anybody's mind, any of your peers,

13:28

any of your friends. I definitely did.

13:30

I have a couple of friends that didn't want to vote at

13:32

all, and they're now going to vote. Some that

13:34

plan on voting for a candidate

13:36

I don't necessarily believe in. But

13:39

it's better than nothing at all, in my opinion.

13:41

And have you voted yet? Actually? Did

13:44

I have my pen right here? If you voting,

13:47

then that is a snazzy

13:49

voting that What are your what are your

13:51

plans for election day? So I would

13:53

have I'd have one friend come pick me up and then we're

13:55

going to be all meeting at the

13:58

election spot and we're going to just go

14:00

together. Obviously I can't go in because

14:02

I already voted, but I'm going to meet them

14:04

on the other side. And after that, I'm pretty sure we

14:07

said we're going to go and get some food, which

14:09

is a reason why I feel like a couple of them are

14:11

going to go. But I mean, as long as we're getting them to

14:13

vote, that's all that matters. Yeah, And

14:15

I guess my last question is this is

14:17

your first year voting. Do

14:20

you think that you're going to be a lifetime

14:22

voter? Do you think you'll always vote? Yes,

14:24

as long as I'm able to vote, I will definitely

14:26

use my rights because I'm

14:29

voting for the people that look like me, like couldn't

14:31

vote before me, and I don't know, I feel

14:33

like it's just very disrespectful to not vote, So

14:35

I'm going to be voting every time I can. Well,

14:37

that's great to hear. I'm glad

14:40

and thank you for the work that you're doing

14:42

to talk to your friends, because

14:45

I really do think that there is so

14:47

much power in that every single

14:50

one of us has influenced with

14:52

our friends, with our family, with the people

14:54

we know, to make this

14:56

process personal and to

14:59

encourage the people we know to get out

15:01

to vote. The fact show that you

15:03

justin are going to be much more effective

15:06

at getting your friends out to

15:08

vote than any candidate, than any celebrity,

15:11

you know, than any campaign. You taking

15:14

the time to speak to your friends about

15:16

what's at stake and why it matters for them to

15:18

vote is real power, and

15:20

I thank you so much for using it, and

15:22

I can't wait to see what your

15:24

future holds. Thank you so much. You

15:31

know, talking to Mallory and Justin really

15:34

gives me hope. And someone who understands

15:36

the power of young people in politics

15:39

is our next guest, Cal

15:41

Pen. Now you may remember

15:44

Cal comedian and actor for

15:47

his roles in Harold and

15:49

Kumar Go to Whitecastle and the

15:51

TV show House. Well

15:54

you may not know, though, he went on to be actively

15:56

involved in democratic politics and actually

15:59

worked in the White House during

16:01

the Obama administration. And

16:03

in the last six weeks leading up to this

16:05

election, Cal did an amazing

16:07

thing. He put out a weekly

16:09

show called Cal Penn

16:12

Approves This Message. We

16:14

all know that line from candidates ads,

16:17

but what he was doing was trying to

16:19

educate and mobilize young people to

16:22

vote. And each episode

16:24

focused on a specific issue like climate

16:27

change or human rights or education and

16:29

looked at how we got where we

16:31

are. So I wanted to talk to Cal

16:33

about the years he has spent helping

16:36

young voters make their voices heard,

16:38

and that's where we started our conversation.

16:42

I am very happy to see you, Cal, and

16:44

I'm particularly interested

16:47

in what you're doing trying to mobilize

16:49

young people. Do you think

16:51

that there's a real hunger among

16:53

young people to be more involved

16:55

and to maybe work through for themselves

16:58

where they stand on these shoes. I

17:01

think so. I think it seems like

17:03

young voters today are are less party

17:06

conscious, They're less affiliated. Um,

17:08

I would imagine that that's gonna mean

17:11

that changes that each major party is

17:13

going through is probably going to continue for quite some

17:15

time. But I also see that as an opportunity.

17:17

Like I remember just thinking about

17:20

when you know, I was at the White

17:22

House when don't as Don't Tell got repealed, and I

17:24

had a very small part. I was a very

17:26

small part of the outreach team. But I remember

17:28

thinking that took so long, and the different

17:30

iterations of what had to happen

17:33

for this policy to first get enacted

17:36

and then get repealed, and all along the way

17:38

it was viewed as this is the right thing to

17:40

do at the time. So those benchmarks

17:42

over time are such an interesting

17:44

thing that I think if you're young now, of course

17:46

you look at that and you think, well, don't don't

17:48

tell you that got repealed a long time ago,

17:50

you know, and it's it gives me hope.

17:53

I I don't know how you. I

17:55

would actually love to know your thoughts on this. It seems

17:57

like younger voters sit there and they go, oh, Obama,

18:00

Clinton, They're so moderate, And

18:02

I'm like, are you kidding me? That?

18:05

What a place of luxury? Actually,

18:08

like, you know how hard people had to fight

18:10

for you to think that Barack Obama and

18:13

the Clinton's are moderate. Like, maybe

18:15

they are moderate by today's youth standards.

18:17

That's a good thing, because that's a benchmark

18:19

of progress to me, Like, how do you view

18:22

because I assume you hear that all the time too,

18:24

Well, yes, I I have heard that, and

18:26

I've laughed about it with Barack

18:29

because it is a matter

18:31

of perspective. It's it's like what you just

18:34

said about the repeal of Don't Ask, Don't Tell.

18:36

If you think about it, in the

18:38

number of years that most young people have been

18:41

alive, it seems like it took forever.

18:43

If you think about it, in the great sweep of

18:45

historic change. It was lightning fast

18:47

to move toward eliminating

18:51

barriers to the LGBT community

18:53

being fully participants in

18:56

every aspect of American life, to gay

18:58

marriage. I mean that was warp speed.

19:01

But you're also very

19:03

a student saying but people sort of take

19:06

that for granted. Okay, fine, thank you very much.

19:08

What's next? Because part

19:10

of the fight over Don't Ask, Don't Tell and

19:12

gay marriage was to keep it alive

19:15

and not let the opponents

19:18

literally in shrine opposition

19:20

in the constitution. So everything

19:23

is a trade off. And when you say, well,

19:25

you know you're a moderate, I like to say I'm a

19:27

progressive who likes to get things done,

19:30

and very often it's supposed

19:32

to be in a democracy that

19:34

you push as hard as you can for the

19:36

maximum outcome that you are

19:38

seeking, but along the way you

19:41

probably are going to have to, you know, compromise.

19:44

It's an ongoing debate, and it's

19:46

a good debate because I think you

19:48

want to push the system as far as

19:50

possible, but don't get discouraged

19:52

when the other side pushes back, because

19:55

if you get discouraged, that just

19:57

plays right into their hands. That is

20:00

literally one of the undercurrents of

20:02

our entire series is that

20:05

you know, oftentimes the system

20:07

is designed to make you feel

20:09

powerless, to make you feel like, well,

20:12

my vote doesn't matter, so why bother. And then

20:14

one of the things we're just trying to explain is just think

20:16

about this for a second, that if your vote

20:18

really didn't matter, why would they

20:20

go through that much effort to prevent

20:23

showing up. It's because they're scared of your power,

20:26

and in particular young people. Wow,

20:28

they really don't want young people to

20:30

vote. This was a huge issue in the

20:32

sixties. And when you get

20:35

that right and then people basically

20:37

say, oh, thank you very much, but I'm not interested,

20:39

you get a little bit agitated

20:42

because you know what a difference it would make if

20:44

you if you had the percentage of

20:47

young people voting, say under

20:49

twenty five, that you have a people

20:51

over seventy are politics would look

20:54

really different, and a lot

20:56

of issues like climate change or

20:58

free tuition for public colleges and universities,

21:01

those would be accomplished because

21:04

people in public life listen

21:07

to those voices that they

21:09

think are going to either keep

21:12

them in office or take them out. And

21:15

one of my friends has often

21:17

said, you know, we're always talking about

21:19

the youth vote. And at the very end of every

21:21

campaign, where does the attention go at

21:24

tension goes to people over sixty. Why

21:27

because despite our hopes, we

21:29

really, really, really know that those folks

21:31

are going to turn out. I'm always fascinated

21:33

by, you know, every demographic group except

21:36

for young people. So African American

21:38

vote, Irish American vote, South Asian vote, whatever

21:40

you measure them in every four year

21:43

period, and with the exception of expanding the electorate

21:45

within those communities, they're generally the same

21:47

humans were showing up. But youth

21:50

vote, it's not the same human beings

21:52

in those four year periods because you age out of the demo.

21:55

We're talking about a totally new set of people.

21:57

So while it's amazing, like I'm

22:00

very hopeful by the fact that mid terms

22:02

of the highest you vote in decades,

22:04

but two years worth of those people our

22:06

first time voters, now they weren't even there.

22:10

So it's it's this weird thing where I feel like we're

22:12

chastising somebody who just turned eighteen

22:14

for the twenty year old two years ago. Um,

22:17

And to your point, like any way

22:19

to encourage that and set the stage

22:22

of here's what progress looked like it

22:24

took decades of young people to get the voting age

22:26

to eighteen. It took decades of

22:28

young people to get some sort

22:30

of a recognition for Sudan and South

22:32

Sudan. Imperfect solution, obviously,

22:35

but it was faith groups coming together with

22:37

college campuses over a period of years

22:39

and years and years to draw attention

22:41

to genocide. That's what

22:43

what fueled so much of that. It was slow,

22:46

Yeah, it is. It's painfully, painfully

22:49

slow, but you got to

22:51

believe change is possible even if

22:53

you get your heart broken because it takes so long.

22:56

I mean, ten years ago, if

22:58

you and I had been talking, I don't think either one

23:00

of us would have realistically

23:04

expected. We might have hoped for having

23:06

the daughter of two immigrants on the

23:09

ticket as the next vice president

23:11

of our country, and we would have been

23:14

kind of probably kidding or saying, oh, yeah, I'll

23:16

never happened, you know, given all the other problems.

23:18

But it is happening, So

23:20

cal Pen, thank you so much for

23:22

spending this time talking to me about a

23:25

lot of the things that are really

23:27

critically important to our democracy

23:29

that you are determined

23:31

to make accessible and entertaining

23:35

an educational to your viewers,

23:38

especially young people. Well, let me thank

23:40

you also just for sharing all of your

23:42

incredible experience and stories. We've

23:44

looked up to you for quite some time, and I

23:46

appreciate it very much. Cal

23:52

Pen approves. This message wrapped up

23:54

last week, but you can still

23:56

watch all of it on Hulu, and I recommend

23:59

it as a timer for issues we

24:01

need to think about all the time, not just

24:03

during an election. Yeah,

24:06

I couldn't agree more. And I think

24:08

what Cal's doing is so important

24:10

and part of what we all should be thinking about.

24:13

I can't think of anything more

24:15

important and more vital to

24:18

the health of our democracy than

24:20

us finding ways to make our

24:23

system feel accessible

24:26

and so the plainist language that we

24:28

can find to engage people

24:30

and help them understand, you know

24:32

why the city comptroller,

24:35

like you know, matters in you know, to

24:37

you, that's the work that needs

24:39

to be done right now. I just I'm so inspired

24:42

by what Cal's doing. And you know, I'm

24:45

I'm a dork for these things, which is

24:47

evident by the fact that I've spent twelve

24:49

years, you know, on the trail

24:52

for Canadas who I am inspired

24:54

by and I love being on

24:56

the campaign trail this year looks

24:58

really different out there. Yes, so

25:01

I wanted to hear from a seasoned organizer

25:04

who I know. You know, Hillary, and I

25:06

know because I met her in Nevada working

25:08

for you. And I wanted Emmy

25:10

Louise, this incredible long

25:13

time organizer, to talk

25:15

to us about what it looks like on the ground

25:17

this election season. Emmy

25:20

is such an amazing human being. She

25:22

is, as you said, a longtime organizer,

25:25

but in my view, one of the best in the entire country.

25:27

Yeah. Well, he lives in Austin,

25:30

Texas with her wife and her two and a

25:32

half year old son, Henry. She

25:34

has been working tirelessly toward

25:37

this election day for the past four

25:39

years, working to help grassroots

25:42

organizations and candidates.

25:44

She's a partner at New Coo Strategies,

25:46

this political consulting firm she started,

25:48

and she helps run Onward Together.

25:51

Well, that's the group I started after the election

25:54

to lift up groups and organizations

25:57

to support candidates and causes. And

25:59

of course I immediately asked

26:01

Emmy to be involved. Well,

26:03

she seems tireless and

26:06

like she's out there, you know, fighting the good

26:08

fight for all of us. So I wanted to check

26:10

in with her and see how she was feeling

26:13

heading into these final hours

26:15

before the election. I'll

26:18

start with, how are you how how are you doing

26:20

today? I'm

26:23

great, you know, I'm really optimistic. I

26:25

think people are out there organizing,

26:27

people are out there voting, and that is

26:29

good. Right. The art of a

26:31

campaign is you really want to get to the

26:34

morning after and say I did

26:36

everything I could to turn out voters,

26:38

to mobilize people, to inspire people,

26:41

to lay out our agenda. And

26:43

I feel like that's being done. And you're

26:45

in Texas and all eyes

26:47

are on Texas right now. What does

26:49

it feel like to be in Texas right now? What's

26:51

the energy like? Well, the energy

26:54

is interesting because you know, we're in a pandemic,

26:56

so traditionally you might

26:59

be able to be around a lot of people around

27:01

the campaign bustle and hustle on the

27:03

campaign office, and so it

27:05

is a little different. But I will tell you

27:08

I think that the arc of Texas has

27:10

been moving in the right direction for a few cycles.

27:13

Now. I mean Hillary Clinton actually

27:15

did better in Texas than in places like Ohio.

27:18

Then you saw about the works race

27:20

in uh and

27:22

now I mean we're looking at double

27:24

digits of congressional races

27:26

that are toss ups that have

27:28

never been toss ups before. Pile

27:31

that on the work that's been done for more

27:33

than a decade by organizations like

27:36

Texas Organizing Project, Battleground

27:38

Texas, the Texas Democratic Party

27:40

Annie's List. I mean, this work

27:42

has really been a long time coming.

27:45

The first three counties in the nation to

27:47

surpass total

27:50

turnout are in Texas, right

27:53

one, just just south of Austin,

27:55

in Hayes County, which is home to

27:58

Texas State, where my few

28:00

is actually a student. And you

28:02

know, there were organizations like Move Texas who

28:04

fought to the nail to make sure that there was voting

28:06

sites on campus, and that was actually

28:09

the first county in the nation to see this record

28:11

breaking turnout. And so there's a lot

28:13

of activity out there, and it's a really exciting

28:15

time. I want to talk to you about

28:18

the Latin X vote because

28:20

for me, you know, I got engaged in

28:23

the same year you did, oh wait, and and in the

28:25

exact same place. And Nevada was my

28:27

first time on the ground, you know,

28:29

volunteering for a campaign getting out the

28:31

vote, and there were

28:33

certainly experiences and interactions

28:36

where I learned so much about

28:39

Latin X voters and getting them

28:41

to engage and be mobilized. What have

28:43

you seen change in the Latin X

28:45

community with Latin X voters. You

28:48

know, I think what I have seen RelA

28:50

shipping evolved throughout the years

28:53

is really the engagement of young people.

28:56

Right in two thousand nine,

28:58

ten, two thousand eleven,

29:00

I think a lot of us will remember.

29:03

I don't want to say the emergence because for

29:05

me, they were in emergence of when the Dreamers

29:07

really started pushing the Obama administration.

29:10

That's when you really saw off for example, United

29:13

we dream really come to prominence. And

29:15

I feel like there were many Dreamers

29:17

across the country who took that lead.

29:19

There were a lot of high school students in

29:21

Nevada and across the board that we're beginning

29:24

to get involved. And now I

29:26

believe that you're seeing a lot of young Latin

29:28

X voters that are really pushing

29:30

our party, that are really pushing candidates

29:33

toward a more progressive agenda.

29:35

And so I think that that has been one

29:37

of the more beautiful things

29:39

out there. I mean, you see AOC, you see

29:42

Jessica Cisneo's on the Texas border.

29:44

You see Astrid Silva and Nevada.

29:47

I mean, there are so many young,

29:49

incredible latin X leaders

29:52

that are really showing us away. You

29:54

know, A great onward together group that's doing this work

29:56

in Arizona is Mooch Arizona

29:59

led by at the Moss and Alex

30:01

who again are just these

30:04

very I think young visionary

30:07

leaders right who are not

30:09

taking no for an answer and really thinking

30:11

through. You know, these are the big challenges.

30:13

How are we going to do this by mobilizing and

30:15

building people's power. Yeah. Well,

30:18

one of the things that is already

30:20

being talked about is the record number

30:22

of young voters who are already turning

30:24

out in this election. And it gives

30:26

you hope, almost gives me hope, and

30:29

then makes me scared that I have any hope

30:31

because we're also deeply draumatized. But

30:34

have you voted yet? Yes? I voted last

30:36

week. I voted last Friday. And what was

30:38

that like? It was really

30:40

awesome. What are you

30:43

voting for this year? You know? I voted

30:45

for a few things. I voted, you know, number

30:48

one for my son, who is

30:50

a young boy. He's two and a half years old,

30:52

and he was a premium. He was a Nickey for three

30:55

weeks, and you

30:57

know, we didn't really have to worry a whole lot

30:59

because he had every privilege afforded

31:01

to him. And I want to make sure

31:04

that every kid out there has the same opportunities.

31:07

And you know, I think in and beyond,

31:09

we've met a lot of stories out there, including

31:12

this one little girl, Capita in Nevada,

31:15

who many people might remember from

31:17

the Brave Ad with Hillary Clinton, whose

31:19

parents were undocumented.

31:21

And there are a lot of people like her who

31:24

have suffered greatly over the last

31:26

four years. And so I'm voting

31:28

for them and also voting for Hillary

31:30

because you know, in her most difficult

31:32

moment and our most difficult moment as organizers,

31:36

she told us to keep going. And I believe

31:39

many people have kept going, many new

31:41

people have joined in, and

31:44

we wouldn't even be here. I think

31:46

I certainly wouldn't be here. We're not for

31:48

her. That's awesome, man. What's your plan

31:51

for election Day? Um?

31:54

Needle a lot of pizza.

31:57

I think I'm going to volunteer all the that's

32:00

what do we do. I would find a good local

32:03

campaign going open some doors in

32:06

COVID responsible way and

32:09

help turn out voters. There is nothing more important

32:11

to do on election day than turning out voters

32:13

up until the last moment, until the polls

32:15

closed, until every vote is counted.

32:22

We'll be right back. This

32:30

is about a lot of different people. It's about

32:33

organizers like Emmy, it's about voters

32:35

like us. But let's pivot now

32:37

to the person on the ballot.

32:40

I had a chance to talk to Brandon

32:42

Thomas, who is running to represent

32:45

District forty nine in Tennessee's

32:47

State House of Representatives. We

32:49

were introduced to him by a group that I really

32:52

love that Onward Together support.

32:54

It's called Run for Something, which helps young

32:56

people like Brandon run for office,

32:59

and so that's what he's doing. Brandon,

33:02

it is so great talking with you.

33:04

Um, I really appreciate you joining

33:07

me as we're racing to the finish

33:09

line of this election. It's

33:12

um coming right on us. How are you feeling

33:15

anxious? Very anxious?

33:18

Well, I would be very surprised if you

33:20

were not. You know, Brandon,

33:22

you're running in a traditionally

33:24

Republican district, which makes for

33:26

a hard campaign but also an impactful

33:29

one. And I learned

33:31

that this is your second time running

33:33

in this district. You ran for this seat

33:36

back in ran

33:38

alongside remember that very well, So

33:41

what made you decide to run the

33:44

first time? And then what made

33:46

you think, Hey, I'm going to do this again?

33:49

You know, Well, actually in

33:52

year old at the time, and I

33:54

had actually came back from working on an issue

33:56

campaign in Iowa, and so

33:59

we were trying to get folks to sign

34:01

up get everything in the Democratic

34:04

platform to have you know, fair

34:06

wages and paid family

34:09

leave and stuff that's kind of stuff. And

34:11

when I came back home, there was a

34:14

week before the filing deadline, and

34:16

you know, I was like, why can't we just do that here?

34:19

And so that that's what made me run in

34:22

sixteen. You know, I didn't think about it.

34:24

It was just like an urge to do something to do

34:26

good for my community. This

34:28

cycle, I was very reluctant

34:31

to do it again. Uh

34:34

you know in seen we managed

34:36

to get thirty eight percent of

34:38

the first time,

34:41

Yeah, exactly, exactly. Some

34:43

people rounded up to forty So I'm not mad

34:46

at him. But

34:49

yeah, so we we ran that campaign

34:51

the way we did, but this time it was very thought

34:53

out. Um, you know, I have a

34:55

two year old son. Now makes

34:57

a big difference, doesn't it. Yes, yeah,

35:00

and to see how things have not changed

35:02

in the past four years. Um. Even

35:05

just this past session, our state legislature

35:07

took money out of public schools to give

35:09

the private schools, and they promised

35:12

teachers a pay raise and that didn't happen.

35:14

It's stuff like that, like this is going to be

35:17

affected my son's life when I

35:19

think about what it was like for my races

35:21

for the Senate or for president. The

35:23

last week was just frantic running

35:25

around, going as many places as

35:27

possible. But you're campaigning

35:30

in the middle of a pandemic, so you had

35:32

to get a little creative to reach

35:35

people. What have you been doing? Um?

35:37

So you know, one thing I'll be doing

35:39

a lot is on slack. It's

35:41

like an organizing channel. And

35:43

so we have a Slack channel. So that helps us

35:46

kind of like filter out what we're gonna

35:48

do since we always can't be doing

35:50

webcams and we face to face, it's

35:52

the next best thing. Also,

35:55

we got on TikTok, so we did the whole

35:58

Okay, so

36:01

we're doing that um and it

36:03

actually became a really good

36:05

tool because my the person I'm running

36:08

against, he's a character and

36:10

he tries to be like this folksy

36:13

character. But when you ask him questions

36:15

like was a Civil War thought over slavery,

36:18

he doesn't know how to answer. He can't answer. So we made

36:20

that into a TikTok. We did a Sarah

36:22

Cooper and you know it's me

36:24

as the reporter asking the question and

36:26

me being him holding up frocks and

36:28

everything. So we used it that way.

36:31

And also, you know this is a hot race,

36:33

but you know it's a hot race when you get negative mail

36:36

and so so we got negative

36:38

mail on us, and so

36:40

we used that as an opportunity to TikTok.

36:42

So, yeah, there was a digital ad that

36:45

had me and Bernie together with

36:47

the red filter. Basically, this

36:49

black guy and this Jewish guy are going to take your money

36:51

and raise taxes, right and um,

36:55

we just heard We made it. We made fun of it. We put it

36:57

on his head. People laugh sometimes

36:59

that's the best way to make them think. Well, you

37:01

know, you really have a shot at making history

37:04

in this election, not only because you're a Democrat,

37:06

which hasn't been

37:09

the trend in these counties

37:11

that you're seeking to represent, but

37:14

you are African American. You'd

37:17

be the first African American representative

37:19

for your county. You are gay,

37:22

you'd be the first gay representative.

37:25

How do you hope your county

37:27

and state will look different

37:30

as your two year old son, Ezra

37:32

grows up there? You know, I hope

37:34

it looks like the community. Hope

37:37

elected officials look like the community

37:39

and they understand the struggles people are going

37:42

through. I think what we see right

37:44

now that's not happening even down

37:46

to like the school board level. Uh,

37:48

we start talking about this pandemic again, and they

37:50

were talking about how to reopen schools

37:53

and this and that, and there

37:55

was nobody that looked like me or

37:57

it looked like my family that

37:59

understood it. If you reopen these

38:01

schools and you know, if

38:03

children are carriers or not, and they

38:05

bring that back to their grandparents, does that

38:07

mean, you know, do these schools

38:10

have the resources they need? We know they don't in

38:12

the state of Tennessee. So I

38:14

would like to see representation that looks

38:17

more like the community. And that means folks

38:19

gotta vote and they have to run like

38:21

you have, you know, the guts

38:23

to do. How are you feeling about

38:25

the race and these final hours?

38:29

I am anxious. We have just got some numbers

38:32

that showed like, oh, you

38:34

know that we may be behind by like three percent,

38:37

but we could make it up. And um, so

38:39

that that's just really anxious inducing. Well

38:42

but that but that's a great result. In

38:44

the district that you're in. People are not used

38:46

to voting for Democrats, so that's good

38:48

news. How are you going to spend election

38:51

day? Election day, I'm probably still want to

38:53

be trying to get those straggler voters out to vote.

38:55

And then because it's literally

38:57

gonna come down to the wire where you

38:59

know, we know that, and you know,

39:01

after seven o'clock, I've been joking with people,

39:03

I'm gonna turn my phone off. It

39:09

sounds like people are saying, no, you can't do that,

39:11

that's not gonna happen. So well, let's

39:13

let's cross our fingers. And so I

39:15

have to end by asking you, Brandon, what

39:17

are you gonna do if you wake up

39:20

or you probably won't have gone to sleep, But if

39:22

you if you get word that you have

39:25

one and you're the

39:27

new representative, what are you looking

39:29

forward to do as the new representative?

39:32

Well, you know I would probably cry

39:36

it's a minute, a

39:39

year's work of just hard work. Um

39:42

uh, you know I would want to get to work

39:44

in ensuring we fund our schools and

39:46

getting Medicaid expansion and paid

39:48

familyly. Those are the things. But immediately

39:52

right what we could do is expand Medicaid. That's

39:54

just you know, that's a that's getting the votes. I

39:56

think that's that's like number one. We gotta get

39:58

people healthcare during the global tan slutely,

40:00

I just want to thank you Brandon Thomas.

40:03

Thank you for running, thank

40:05

you for being determined,

40:07

getting back up and making sure

40:10

that your voice was going to be heard. And

40:12

I think your hope for

40:14

your family and particularly for your two year

40:16

old son, Ezra, is something that everybody

40:19

can relate to. So I got my fingers

40:21

and toes crossed for your branded good luck, Thank

40:23

you, thank you. Well

40:30

to shift a little bit. You know, we've been talking

40:32

about everyday voters, and we've

40:34

been talking about candidates and what

40:36

their days look like on election day,

40:38

but such a huge component on election

40:41

day are our journalists, the people

40:43

who are you know, trying to help us

40:45

get the information we need to understand

40:47

what's going on. And so I thought i'd

40:49

check in with Zerlina Maxwell, who

40:52

is a veteran of several presidential

40:55

campaigns, including President

40:57

Obama's and she worked for

40:59

you, Hillary, and yes she did. Zerlina

41:03

is just a force of nature. She served

41:05

as director of Progressive

41:08

Media for my campaign in She

41:11

has an incredible amount of

41:13

energy and commitment. I'm really

41:16

proud of her. And now she's gone

41:18

on to be in the media herself. Yeah,

41:21

that's right. She has a show with Just McIntosh

41:23

called Signal Boost on Sirius X, and she

41:26

recently launched a TV show called

41:28

Zerlina on Peacock And

41:30

this is her first presidential election at

41:32

the news desk and I

41:35

had an amazing time catching up

41:37

with her. She's in Virginia where she's

41:39

staying with family during this pandemic.

41:42

Heiser, Lena, so nice too.

41:46

How are you. I'm okay.

41:48

I'm grateful that I'm healthy, my family

41:51

healthy. I feel like it's

41:53

almost the Hillary Clinton anser after the election.

41:55

You know, I'm okay, but I'm worried for

41:57

the country. Where are you going to be

42:00

an election day? I'm gonna be in the

42:02

house because I can't go outside. Um,

42:05

you know, we have Just McIntosh.

42:07

You were sat next to me and worked with me on Hillary's

42:10

campaign. She's my coast for my morning show

42:12

on Serious Sex Them, so we'll be up

42:14

doing signal boost and we'll probably give a like

42:16

a rara even if you voted like go

42:19

make sure everybody did you know?

42:21

Gr t V kinda lay

42:23

in the land morning show. And

42:25

then I have a show on Peacock as

42:27

well, which is the streaming network from

42:29

NBC and MSNBC, and

42:32

so I'll be a part of that coverage

42:34

at some point. I don't know exactly,

42:36

but I think for me, I'm going

42:38

to be in the house, which feels weird.

42:40

All of this, this whole year is so different that it was supposed

42:43

to you know, supposed to be for everyone. So

42:45

I don't get to do the thing that I normally

42:47

would do on an election night, which is help

42:50

whichever you know Canada, and I'm working

42:52

for wins. That's really hard, but

42:55

I'm gonna try to at least use

42:58

my platforms to amplify the good stuffing.

43:00

You're speaking all the time too, people

43:02

from all kinds of different backgrounds and

43:04

getting so many perspectives and

43:06

and you know, so much information and

43:09

so many different analyzes. What

43:11

in all of that helps you

43:14

find hope and helps you stay positive?

43:16

Is there a conversation that you've

43:18

had recently that like you

43:21

hold on to, like how do you stay positive.

43:23

There's something that has happened in quarantine

43:26

where I sort of like a It gave

43:28

us all a moment to pause, and then I was like,

43:30

Okay, was there anything that I was doing

43:32

that was making me unhappy

43:35

happy? You know, Like I did all of that processing, and

43:37

then I was also able to sort of prioritize

43:40

what I was really truly grateful for as

43:42

well. And one of the things I'm really grateful

43:45

for is the time I'm getting with my mom,

43:47

because you know, she got ill

43:49

in and I was always like flying

43:52

back, flying back, flying back, and

43:54

now I just get to be here every day. So

43:56

in the midst of like all the terrible I

43:59

still get that I will never not have

44:01

that, so that's super cool. But

44:03

also my mom literally is

44:06

the daughter of a civil rights activist

44:08

who marched in Selma with

44:11

my aunt. And one

44:13

of the things that happened recently is I was

44:15

thinking about my grandfather because there's a

44:17

photo of him in the house and it just

44:20

so happens to be that it's right behind my

44:22

head where I sit now

44:24

to host the show I do every day, and

44:27

so I can't but help the optimistic

44:29

because I just think about like everything he

44:31

did, then everything my aunt did. She was

44:34

seventeen when she marched in Selma, you

44:36

know, and to think about the

44:38

people who truly sacrificed

44:41

to get us to this point. It would be

44:43

a real shame for me to be like, oh,

44:46

it's gonna be too hard. I don't think I can do it.

44:49

I you know, I think we should all give up every nothing.

44:51

There's no hope. Imagine

44:53

how we sound saying that, you know, to

44:56

somebody who sacrificed so much. So I

44:58

just feel like I lead with the gratitude

45:00

of like, Okay, this

45:03

moment does pretty much stuck. We could go

45:05

outside, like, you know, like

45:07

there obviously are very

45:09

pressing reasons why people should be filled

45:12

with sense of urgency, But to feel

45:14

optimistic is a choice.

45:17

It's like, I know the next moment is going to be

45:19

better. It just has to be better, because

45:21

if I think about what other people went through, like

45:24

they obviously pushed through to the next

45:26

moment, otherwise none of us would

45:28

be here. And you know, I'm in

45:30

Virginia, which also makes

45:32

me think about history a lot, because you know, literally,

45:35

I can not that I go anywhere, but if

45:37

I did, I could drive

45:39

past a literal cotton field. And

45:41

so I think about the fact that, like, I'm

45:44

only here because you know, the people in

45:46

my ancestry they survived, they

45:49

survived a worst moment, So I'm going

45:51

to survive this one because it's definitely

45:53

not as bad as that. So

45:57

that's where I'm going to target any of like

45:59

the cynical feelings that pop

46:01

up, so that I can maintain that optimism

46:04

that's so beautiful and so grounding

46:07

and so empowering to use

46:09

our connection to history to ground

46:12

us and give us courage and moments that feel terrifying.

46:15

So there's a high chance that on election

46:18

day you're just going to be stuck in front of

46:20

your laptop talking to people

46:22

about what's happening and what's going on. How

46:25

does that work logistically? Like when do

46:27

you plan your pee breaks, when do you remember

46:30

to eat something like are your snacks

46:32

at hand, you know, at at arm's

46:34

length? How are you going to get through it? Well,

46:37

I definitely look at what I

46:40

do almost like an athlete. It's

46:42

just sort of like making sure I have enough water,

46:44

making sure I have you know, lemon and honey

46:46

for my throat, you know, having all of

46:48

those kinds of things with the snacks things that's hard

46:50

for me. I literally write down on

46:52

my schedule because I write it out the night before. I

46:55

write down, like where I'm going to eat,

46:58

because if I don't put it there, it that happened.

47:00

I actually don't eat, and

47:03

then I'm like, I feel a white head. Oh right,

47:05

So I write it down and I

47:07

make sure, like I have a protein shake that has

47:09

all my vegetables, so I'm not going to eat them. But

47:12

I think as far as snacks, like I'm definitely

47:14

not like a healthy snacker, Like

47:17

the last week has been of chocolate, Like I was

47:20

like literally scouring the house for chocolate

47:22

yesterday. So it'll be like my

47:25

energy drink, my protein

47:27

jake. But I recommend putting it on your

47:29

schedule otherwise on an election

47:31

day like this one, you might forget and

47:35

do you have a mantra to

47:37

get through election day? Like is there something you're

47:39

going to keep coming back to? It's

47:41

gonna be fine. I mean honestly,

47:44

like that one gets me through a lot, because I

47:46

don't know I even in the most serious

47:49

situations, like even when my mom was

47:51

like in the hospital, I would just sit and

47:53

I would stare at the sky and I'd like, it is going to be

47:55

okay. She's going to be okay, Like

47:57

she's going to be okay. This is she's gonna

47:59

be And even if she's not, I'm going

48:01

to be okay. So you

48:04

know, that's what kind of keeps me pushing,

48:07

even if like I'm not okay for a little bit, which

48:10

I think, you know, it's so you

48:12

know, insane to think of the steaks,

48:15

but they are that high. But it's

48:17

going to be okay. I'm

48:19

so glad I got to speak to you. I feel

48:21

like I'm going to be thinking about your Madra. It's

48:24

going to be okay. I think that's a

48:26

very good one. And I'm going to be thinking

48:28

about this moment, this election

48:31

as part of a much bigger history

48:34

and that we're connected to people before

48:37

us and those who are coming after us. And

48:39

thank you for these amazing

48:41

pearls of wisdom. You're

48:44

awesome and I loved talking

48:46

to you. We're

48:50

taking a quick break, stay with us. I

49:01

gotta tell you, I teared up

49:04

maybe like five times in this

49:06

conversation with Zerlina

49:09

and to be able to speak so frankly with

49:11

her about how we stay

49:13

above the darkness,

49:15

you know, because it has been dark.

49:17

There have been some really, really

49:20

dark and terrifying moments in the last

49:23

few years, and I think it's important that we

49:25

be honest about that, honest

49:27

about how hard it can be sometimes

49:29

to wake up, get out of bed and

49:32

put one foot in front of the other. You

49:34

know. I think we're all feeling excited

49:36

about election Day, but I think we're all also feeling

49:39

a little bit terrified, yes,

49:41

and that is why I wanted

49:43

to talk to glenn and Doyle. I

49:46

have followed Glennon for several

49:48

years. Many of you listening

49:51

may also have followed her. She

49:54

has a almost unique ability

49:57

to capture feelings. She's

49:59

written several books, including her

50:01

latest Untamed, which I

50:03

thought was brilliant and moving

50:06

and really provocative in

50:09

making people think about, Okay, what

50:11

are the tough moments in my life that I

50:13

have to come to grips with. And she's

50:15

the founder and president of Together

50:18

Rising, which is a nonprofit and

50:21

in the countdown to the election, Glennon

50:23

has been posting daily updates

50:26

about actions her followers

50:28

can take to help elect Democrats.

50:31

The series is called and I love this.

50:34

We can do hard things.

50:37

I am just incredibly

50:40

happy to have you here today.

50:43

I guess I should start by asking

50:45

how are you feeling as we head

50:48

into this momentous

50:50

election day? Feeling

50:53

feeling um, well,

50:55

I think for the last four years, and honestly

50:57

maybe for the last forty years, I have felt

51:00

like I am walking on

51:02

a path, just trying to stay study

51:04

on the path, and there's a cliff to the left

51:07

of me, and it is a pit of

51:09

despair and fear and rage

51:12

and terror right and I'm

51:14

just trying not to fall off that cliff. And

51:16

then now going into the election,

51:18

it feels like there's another cliff on the right,

51:21

and that cliff is hope. And

51:24

this is new to me, this absolute

51:27

refusal to even allow hope

51:29

near my me right now. I don't know what it

51:32

is. It's like every time I hear someone speaking

51:34

hopefully, it makes me angry.

51:39

Yeah, it's just this vulnerability. If

51:41

I will not open myself up to hope again right

51:43

now, I will not allow myself to get crushed again.

51:46

And also we don't have time for it. We have a lot

51:48

of work to do. Yeah, So I'm trying to stay on

51:50

the path, Secretary Clinton, and that

51:52

path, you know, that path

51:54

leads right to your

51:57

voting. You know, you

51:59

know this discuss and we're having is going to drop

52:01

on November two, the day

52:03

before election day.

52:06

So I'd love knowing what your

52:09

plan is and how you intend to,

52:11

you know, spend election day. Well, my plan

52:13

for election day is to be able to

52:16

look at myself in the mirror. You

52:19

know, I will never ever forget the

52:22

night of the two thousand sixteen election.

52:25

You might remember it, yes, I do, yes,

52:29

yes, And I will never forget

52:32

the feeling of knowing

52:34

that I did not do everything

52:37

that I could do, that I took for granted

52:40

your win. First of all,

52:42

the amount of women that I have talked to who had

52:44

that feeling that's sinking despair

52:47

on that night, our legion, and

52:50

I deeply apologize to you

52:52

for that. And

52:55

the memory of that feeling has become

52:57

the resolve that

53:00

I have going into this election. Forty

53:02

days ago, my sister and I just looked at each other and thought,

53:04

well, we will not have that feeling

53:06

again. We cannot control the outcome, but we

53:08

can control our input, and we are going to use

53:11

every bit of our voices, of our platform,

53:13

of our privilege, every bit of it, to

53:15

make sure that every single person that we know and

53:18

that we don't know is voting. So that's

53:20

what we've been doing these forty days of outraged

53:23

to action, just trying to get people

53:25

to, you know, just demystify this

53:27

purposefully confusing. Yes,

53:30

yes, I'm so glad you said

53:32

that, because I have to underscore

53:36

that point. The other side

53:38

wants to make this confusing

53:40

and overwhelming and create

53:43

this cognitive dissonance inside

53:46

people's heads. There's just,

53:48

you know, so much at stake,

53:51

and I love what you said about

53:53

you and your sister being absolutely

53:55

committed. I've heard that from countless

53:58

women who feel exactly

54:00

the same way, and I think listeners

54:02

would love to have a peek inside

54:05

your day. Okay, so it's election day.

54:07

What happens in your household?

54:10

All my household? Usually I wake

54:12

up much earlier than Abby and by the

54:14

time she's gotten up, I've had

54:17

much too much coffee already. I'm actually

54:19

Secretary Quinton woken Abbey up with an

54:21

easel and

54:25

the ten steps that day we're

54:27

taking to crush the patriarchy. So it's

54:29

a lot, it's a lot to wake up. In

54:31

our home. We call it Coffee and Revolution.

54:34

I love that that's the next book, Glenn

54:36

and Revolution. I love that

54:39

they go together. They go together

54:41

because by noon, Secretary Clinton, it's just I'm

54:43

my hope is just dreamed. So I have to get it

54:45

all done in the morning. So

54:48

on election day, what I plan to

54:50

do is when I start to think of myself

54:53

and how I will feel that day, I start to short

54:55

circuit. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to continue

54:57

to lead this community. I

55:00

think of leadership as this kind of balance between

55:03

a challenge and comfort and

55:05

knowing when to do both and when to do each one.

55:07

And you know, during this forty days, we

55:10

have been challenging and challenging and challenging.

55:13

And so what I see as my

55:15

space on election day will all be in different

55:17

places. Will be probably in a corner with

55:19

a candle praying for me, Chase,

55:25

my son is working at the polls. My

55:27

daughters will be watching me carefully. So I

55:29

have to be I

55:32

don't know, I have to pretend

55:34

that everything's gonna be okay either way. I don't

55:36

know. So what

55:39

I'm gonna do is I'm going to be

55:41

present, and I'm going to be reminding my

55:44

community that what democracy looks

55:46

like will be making

55:48

sure that every damn vote

55:51

is counted, and

55:53

that anyone who calls this election before

55:56

every vote is counted is doing that strategically

55:59

in order to steal the election

56:01

once again. So I think

56:03

I'll be comforting, I'll be educating.

56:06

I will be trying, secretary and

56:08

to keep a lot of people on that narrow

56:11

path between clifs. Well,

56:14

now, how are you actually going to physically vote?

56:16

Are you mailing it in? You've

56:19

already voted? Okay, so you're

56:22

affirmations And I love

56:24

your Instagram series called

56:27

we Can Do Hard Things.

56:29

You're gonna be keeping people motivated

56:32

tuned into how they can make

56:34

sure Joe Biden wins. You

56:36

know, I love that we can do

56:38

hard things? Where did that come from? That mantra?

56:41

So I got sober when I was twenty

56:43

six years old. I've been lost to addiction for a very

56:45

long time, and I was teaching.

56:48

I started as a teacher. I really think of myself as

56:50

still and their great teacher on hiatus.

56:52

That is my happy plays. And

56:55

I used to I had such a painful

56:57

time getting sober and each

56:59

day I would make my kids

57:01

walk the long way to lunch because my

57:03

my friend Josie, who taught second grade, had a

57:06

big sign above her window that said, we

57:08

can do hard things, And

57:10

so every day I would walk by

57:12

that classroom just as a reminder. It was

57:14

something about the idea

57:17

that, oh, life isn't hard because I'm

57:19

doing it wrong. It's it's hard often for

57:21

people who are doing it right, who are exactly

57:23

showing up and risking

57:26

and being vulnerable and trying and

57:28

and failing and trying again. And I guess

57:30

holding onto this hope that's so scary and

57:34

right. And then this we part was so important

57:36

to me, This idea that the

57:39

existential drama of being human is

57:41

that we have to do it alone, but that

57:43

we're doing the hard thing of being human alongside

57:46

everybody else. Right, this idea

57:48

that we're totally alone but

57:50

together. So listen,

57:53

it's all over my house. My children.

57:55

I mean, they don't even want anyone to say we can do hard

57:57

things in their vicinity because we

58:01

not got it enough

58:04

with that. But

58:07

I mean, when I was trying to listen figure out democracy

58:09

real quick, I

58:12

couldn't use some help from

58:16

you. But a

58:18

team kept saying that be the idea that this

58:20

is purposefully confusing,

58:23

that we are smart women.

58:27

We can do this, we can figure this out.

58:29

If we can put together Ikea

58:31

bookshelves, we can think

58:34

you're out voting that's right. We can

58:36

be determined that you know, the

58:38

other side is not gonna, you

58:40

know, discourage us and send us screaming

58:43

because it's so hard. And

58:46

you know, when I think about

58:48

your audience, I mean I discovered you

58:51

originally when you were

58:53

speaking to not primarily

58:56

but a lot of women,

58:58

moms who really

59:01

identified as Christians, who had

59:03

a sense of their faith which

59:06

motivated them, guided them, but often

59:09

was not enough. I mean it was hard. Now

59:12

your community is so much bigger, Glennon,

59:14

I mean, you have this amazing

59:16

reach of young people

59:19

LGBT q UH

59:22

and a lot of them are what you

59:24

know posters call white suburban women

59:26

who get up early and drink a

59:28

lot of coffee, who have

59:31

to figure out how they're going to manage

59:33

all of the incoming that everybody's

59:36

life is filled with. Based

59:38

on what you're hearing in this big

59:40

community that you now helped

59:42

to lead and motivate, what's

59:44

on the minds of people

59:46

in that community as they're thinking about voting,

59:49

or if they already have voted like you did, what's

59:51

on their minds. I mean, I think

59:54

COVID has brought to the

59:56

surface, or just exacerbated,

59:58

all of the trauma that is a part

1:00:00

of a woman's life every day. I mean,

1:00:03

we were already taking care of our older parents, but

1:00:05

now we're scared for their lives and their safety.

1:00:08

We were already trying to do

1:00:10

our best to educate our children, but now we're trying to do

1:00:12

it in our freaking houses with no I mean

1:00:14

we you know, just all of those

1:00:17

We were already stressed out about work, but

1:00:19

now so many of us have had to drop

1:00:21

out of careers that we love. You know, we

1:00:23

were already stressed out about health care, we were. My

1:00:26

hope, my hope

1:00:29

is that women are just really, really

1:00:32

angry. I hope so too. I

1:00:34

hope so too, because in this case,

1:00:36

it didn't have to be this bad, did

1:00:38

not. And so we have an opportunity,

1:00:41

I believe, to not only reclaim

1:00:44

our country, but for those of us who you

1:00:46

know, are Christians, to reclaim

1:00:49

our religious faith as

1:00:51

well. You

1:00:53

know, we're going to have I'm sure

1:00:55

some uncertainty about the results come

1:00:58

Tuesday. I think we're all going to have to

1:01:00

just get prepared to stick

1:01:03

it out. What's your advice to the

1:01:05

rest of us as people? Either

1:01:07

I have friends who say they're going to bed

1:01:10

at seven o'clock on election

1:01:13

night and hopefully not waking

1:01:15

up until it's done, and I keep saying it may

1:01:17

not be done for days. You're gonna have

1:01:19

to get out of bed at some point. And then

1:01:21

I have friends who are so obsessed they're gonna

1:01:23

be screaming and tweeting

1:01:25

and crying about every report that

1:01:28

they get. How are you going to get

1:01:30

through this? Do you think? Well?

1:01:32

I think I don't know. First

1:01:34

of all, I never know till the day of. I think

1:01:36

that one of the things I'm gonna

1:01:38

do is try to avoid this purposeful

1:01:41

idea of uncertainty that I think is

1:01:43

mostly coming from the Trump's side,

1:01:46

right, that actually, actually

1:01:49

there is no uncertainty here. There

1:01:51

is a very very reliable

1:01:55

system for mail in ballots that

1:01:57

Trump has started discrediting months

1:02:00

and months ago as a purposeful strategy,

1:02:02

knowing that most of the mail and ballots would be democratic

1:02:04

right, and has over and over again

1:02:07

disparaged that even though he and his

1:02:10

entire administration votes by mail and ballot,

1:02:12

and we know that, right. So I

1:02:15

do think that some of the uncertainty is just sown

1:02:17

and that we need to reject that and say, actually,

1:02:19

this is just what democracy looks like in two thousand twenty.

1:02:22

That we might have to wait. And I like that a

1:02:24

lot, Right, That's not uncertainty, that's

1:02:26

just the process. That's just not

1:02:28

cheating, right, waiting

1:02:30

and being patient so that every vote counts.

1:02:33

So we're gonna have to be bold

1:02:35

and strong in that waiting,

1:02:37

right, But I don't think that we have to call that waiting uncertainty.

1:02:40

We are certain. I like that a lot. It is

1:02:42

a process. It is a process. And then

1:02:45

once we know and I am

1:02:48

actually quite geared up for

1:02:50

good news both from are

1:02:52

you are you? Am? I am? So

1:02:54

I'm just going to fight till the very end. I'm I'm

1:02:57

absolutely totally committed

1:03:00

to that. And when you said a few

1:03:02

minutes ago that you know, you wake up in your house

1:03:04

and it's coffee and revolution, I thought

1:03:06

about the only time I

1:03:08

personally heard Dr Martin Luther King

1:03:10

Jr. Speak And I was a young teenager

1:03:13

and my church took me to hear him

1:03:15

speak in downtown Chicago. So

1:03:17

we all go down there, go to Orchestra Hall

1:03:19

in Chicago, and we hear Dr King speak,

1:03:21

And the name of his speech, which he gave

1:03:24

more times than just that once, was called

1:03:26

staying awake during the revolution,

1:03:29

and I've always thought about that. Stay

1:03:32

awake, don't pull

1:03:34

the covers over your head, drink a lot

1:03:36

of coffee, but be ready to

1:03:38

stay awake fighting

1:03:41

speaking out during the revolution

1:03:43

because regardless of what happens,

1:03:46

there's a lot we have to do. But

1:03:48

I also think we're going to have to try to

1:03:50

figure out how do we heal

1:03:53

our country. I mean, there's so much pain

1:03:56

and fear and anger. How

1:03:59

should we go about doing that on a

1:04:01

person to person level and nationally?

1:04:05

Yeah, I think about that too, although that

1:04:07

feels a little bit too much like hope, So I feel

1:04:10

scared about it, like

1:04:12

when my brain goes to that, like, but

1:04:17

I have allowed myself to think,

1:04:19

Okay, what if we

1:04:22

win? Then as a

1:04:24

leader of my community, my family,

1:04:27

my my job will immediately be

1:04:30

to decide how we win. And

1:04:33

that feels very important to me

1:04:35

in this moment, because there

1:04:37

is a way to win that we have been

1:04:41

seeing that is so infantile

1:04:43

and so braggadocious

1:04:46

and so mean spirited, and so

1:04:48

that all it does is deepen the

1:04:50

divide. That all this does is cause

1:04:52

more pain and anger. And then

1:04:55

I feel like I just want I want

1:04:57

to win the selection, and I

1:04:59

want to win with dignity and

1:05:01

class, and I want to celebrate

1:05:04

in a way that invites people who

1:05:06

think differently than I do, that invites, you

1:05:09

know, the two sides together a little

1:05:11

bit over time, right, I want to leave

1:05:13

room for reduction. I want to leave room for coming

1:05:16

together. And so I'm glad you brought

1:05:18

that up because it just feels like if I allow myself

1:05:20

to go there, I know that I

1:05:22

want to win differently. Yes,

1:05:25

I like that a lot onned Blow

1:05:32

did that resumeate? Oh

1:05:35

my goodness, listening to

1:05:37

Glenned and really listening to all of these

1:05:39

incredible people who are out there doing

1:05:41

the work is helping me today.

1:05:44

It's helping me get through today. You

1:05:47

know, when you talk to people like the people we

1:05:49

were able to speak with, it does

1:05:51

give you grounds for optimism.

1:05:54

We've got amazing people in this country,

1:05:56

and you know we need to be lifting up

1:05:58

the positive ent g not getting dragged

1:06:01

down by the negative. So we

1:06:04

need to keep reminding ourselves there is

1:06:06

something that every one of us can do, and

1:06:08

right now, the most important thing we can do

1:06:11

is vote. And also, you

1:06:14

know, we are going to have to stay focused

1:06:17

and breathe just to make sure

1:06:19

that every vote is counted, right, it's

1:06:21

not like a valid and go back

1:06:23

to scrolling on Instagram. We got

1:06:25

to stay awake and alert and

1:06:28

know that no one person, no one

1:06:30

candidate is going to come make everything better.

1:06:32

That's our job, that's our amen,

1:06:35

amen, And that is at the core of

1:06:38

the American spirit. We

1:06:40

are people who are supposed to

1:06:42

be involved and participate and

1:06:45

make a difference, and you've done that. And

1:06:47

I'm so grateful to

1:06:49

you for joining me today to

1:06:51

talk to these amazing

1:06:54

guests and to reflect a little

1:06:56

bit about what America.

1:06:58

The country needs from people

1:07:00

like you and me. America.

1:07:04

Yeah, well, Hilary, I mean you

1:07:07

know, every single time I get to speak

1:07:09

to you, I have to pinch myself. I couldn't

1:07:11

be more thankful to you

1:07:13

for who you have been in the world

1:07:15

and what an inspiration you've been to me. So

1:07:18

thank you. Last

1:07:23

week I had an amazing

1:07:25

conversation with Share a wonderful

1:07:28

friend, someone I adore and

1:07:30

you know, someone whose music has really meant

1:07:32

a lot to me over the years, and

1:07:35

as she often does, I think

1:07:37

Share put it best, think

1:07:39

of it as life and

1:07:42

yad this is the most important thing

1:07:44

to do for men, for

1:07:47

women, for LGBT people,

1:07:50

for people of color. I mean, you

1:07:52

think it's gonna get better if he gets a second

1:07:55

term? Get his ass out?

1:07:59

Well, that's yeah. For this week's show, You

1:08:01

and Me Both is brought to you by I

1:08:03

Heart Radio. We're produced

1:08:06

by Julie Subran and Kathleen Russo,

1:08:09

with help from Whoma Aberdeen, Nikki

1:08:11

e Tour, Oscar Flores, Brianna

1:08:14

Johnson, Nick Merrill, Lauren

1:08:16

Peterson, Rob Russo and Lona

1:08:19

Valmorrow. Our engineer

1:08:22

is Zack McNeice and the original

1:08:24

music is by Forest Gray.

1:08:27

Our podcast is recorded

1:08:29

on the Riverside platform and a big

1:08:32

thanks to the Riverside team for

1:08:34

they're helping make a podcast

1:08:36

during a pandemic. If you

1:08:38

like this episode, how about telling someone

1:08:40

else about it or tweet about it or posted

1:08:43

on Instagram. That would be a big

1:08:45

help in getting the word out. And you

1:08:47

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1:08:49

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1:08:52

podcast or wherever you get your podcasts,

1:08:55

and while you're there, please leave us a

1:08:57

review. We'd love to hear

1:08:59

from you, unders your questions, your

1:09:01

comments, or your best fashion advice.

1:09:04

Do You and Me both pod at

1:09:06

gmail dot com

1:09:08

and come back next week when we'll

1:09:10

be on the other side of this election with

1:09:14

Ari Berman and Jennifer Cone. Happy

1:09:17

voting everybody,