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2:00

BAM! Have you ever wondered if

2:02

you could rewire your brain for

2:04

more happiness? My guest in this

2:06

Yap Classic episode is Rick Hansen, who

2:08

believes you can and that modern science

2:10

mixed with a little ancient wisdom holds

2:12

the key. Rick is a

2:14

renowned neuropsychologist and best -selling

2:16

author of books like Hardwiring

2:18

Happiness. As a practicing Buddhist,

2:21

he blends ancient wisdom with

2:23

cutting -edge neuroscience to help people

2:25

cultivate greater joy and resilience. In

2:27

this conversation, Rick wrote down

2:30

the science of neuroplasticity, shared

2:32

quick hacks for handling stress,

2:34

and introduced what he calls

2:36

neurodharma, a powerful approach to

2:38

deepening happiness and inner peace. So

2:41

get ready to learn simple,

2:43

yet profound ways to transform your

2:45

mind. First,

2:49

I want to start off by hearing a little bit

2:51

about your childhood. So I learned

2:53

that you had a big turning point

2:55

when you were just 15 years old. You

2:57

were a little bit awkward. You were

2:59

unhappy and just pretty dissatisfied with life until

3:02

you realized this big aha moment in

3:04

your life. So talk to us about this

3:06

turning point when you were a teenager. Oh,

3:09

thanks for queuing me up there.

3:11

So I grew up in a

3:13

decent, fairly stable, lower middle class.

3:16

environment in Southern California, no abuse,

3:18

no trauma, nothing horrible, and still

3:20

for a lot of complicated reasons,

3:22

including being really young while going

3:24

through school, I was really

3:26

unhappy. I was a lot of awkward,

3:29

a lot of miserable, a lot

3:31

of neurotic, and it just seemed pretty

3:33

hopeless. And right there,

3:35

right about age 15, and I

3:37

know it was about age 15

3:39

because I was reading Dune at

3:41

the time, and the main character,

3:43

Paul Madib, is also 15 when

3:45

the books started. right about and

3:47

I suddenly basically realized that as

3:50

bad as my past had been

3:52

and as much the present might

3:54

suck the future was open

3:56

to me in the sense that I

3:58

could always learn a little, heal a little,

4:00

and grow a little every day. I could

4:02

learn how to be a little less

4:04

completely tongue -tied around girls. I

4:06

could learn how to be not

4:08

so scared of these big

4:10

aggro, you know, alpha male types

4:13

in the locker room. I

4:15

could learn how to manage my

4:17

own mind bit by bit.

4:19

And in effect, I learned that

4:21

learning itself knowing how

4:23

to help yourself develop, not just

4:25

memorizing the multiplication table, but

4:27

develop as a person, was the

4:29

strength of strengths. learning is

4:32

the superpower of superpowers because it's

4:34

the one we tap into

4:36

to grow the rest of them.

4:38

It took me many years,

4:40

including becoming a neuropsychologist, et cetera,

4:42

to really understand the how

4:44

of that, how we can actually

4:46

heighten neuroplastic change inside our

4:49

own brains and gradually hardwire things

4:51

like grit, gratitude, compassion, and happiness

4:53

altogether into our own nervous system.

4:55

And there are things we can do

4:57

to do that. But the fundamental

4:59

idea that I was in charge of

5:02

who I was becoming has shaped the

5:04

rest of my life. That's an

5:06

incredible story. And I can't wait for us

5:08

to dive deep on neuroplasticity and all the

5:10

ways that we can improve our brain and

5:12

actually change our brain. But first you've got

5:14

some interesting things that I want to talk

5:16

about in terms of your journey. So it

5:18

turns out you started college when you were

5:20

just 16 years old. So that's pretty incredible.

5:22

How did you end up going to school

5:24

so early and what was that like? Because

5:27

at that age, two years difference in terms

5:29

of college is a big deal. Oh,

5:31

thanks for marking that. So I skipped

5:33

a grade. It was second grade, not

5:35

a big deal. And that was a

5:37

bright little kid and all the rest

5:39

of that. And that had some advantages,

5:41

but it also, plus my

5:43

own kind of shy, anxious temperament led

5:45

me to feeling like the runt of

5:47

the litter as my dad put it.

5:49

because he grew up in a ranch

5:51

in North Dakota. So I felt really

5:54

shy and awkward. Going

5:56

off to college though, on the

5:58

other hand, breaking away from home and

6:00

having a sense of being able to

6:02

step into all kinds of new possibilities

6:04

was wonderful for me. And to locate

6:06

it in our culture, I

6:08

started UCLA in 1969.

6:10

So just imagine the height

6:12

of the political changes

6:15

of the time, the counterculture.

6:17

all kinds of developments in

6:20

psychology, the surge of Eastern

6:22

wisdom coming into the West at the

6:24

tail end of the 60s and early

6:26

70s. It was a wild time. It

6:28

was a fertile time. It was a

6:30

good time to be in school. Plus,

6:32

there was a lot of great music

6:34

as well. That's so

6:36

cool. I mean, it's so great. See,

6:38

I thought there was gonna be something

6:40

more to it, not that you just

6:42

skipped second grade, but it's super interesting

6:44

nonetheless and the fact that probably some

6:46

of those feelings that you had is

6:48

what ultimately led you to becoming who

6:50

you are and what you do and

6:52

what you're passionate about today, which is

6:55

just really interesting in itself. So

6:57

a key part of your journey

6:59

was wanting to understand why people feel

7:01

unhappy. and what sparks

7:03

unhappiness. So how did this curiosity

7:05

lead you to starting to

7:07

study neuroscience and psychology? Maybe

7:10

I'd like to kind of draw

7:12

people to a level of, I don't

7:14

know, a kind of tender intimacy

7:16

with themselves a little deeper and ask

7:19

people, what are some of the

7:21

things you knew when you were really

7:23

young? Maybe you didn't have words

7:25

for it. But you just had a

7:27

knowing. You had a sense of

7:29

what it was like for people around

7:31

you, or you had a sense

7:33

of who you were, your fundamental capabilities.

7:36

Maybe there was a dream for

7:38

your life that really was starting to

7:40

take form even when you were

7:42

in kindergarten. And for me,

7:44

in my earliest memories, and I have a

7:46

lot of memory of my childhood going

7:48

all the way back, probably to late two

7:50

years old, In all of

7:53

them is this wistful poignant

7:55

sense of the needless unhappiness,

7:57

the needless strife, the needless

7:59

bickering, nothing horrible, but the

8:01

needless hassles, the needless stresses,

8:03

the needless worries, the needless

8:05

feeling less than other people

8:07

or being uncertain about where

8:09

we stand with other people.

8:11

Just ick, needless. And

8:13

so, yeah, absolutely. I had this

8:16

sense of it and this kind

8:18

of movement, not just observing it.

8:20

but a movement of compassion, a

8:22

movement of compassionate action to do

8:24

what one can. And I'm far

8:26

from unique. I think so many

8:28

people, I suspect for you as

8:30

well, Hala, right? In

8:32

your own background, moving you to

8:34

do what you do, there also

8:37

was that sense that there's so

8:39

much unnecessary unhappiness and there's so

8:41

much more wellbeing and harmony even

8:43

in a very real world, including

8:45

in a competitive marketplace that we

8:48

can forged together, and there's a

8:50

movement in you, a movement in

8:52

me, and probably a movement in

8:54

many other people as well, to

8:56

try to be helpful in that

8:58

way. Yeah, totally. I think

9:00

you bring a really solid point across

9:02

the fact that so many of us,

9:05

we live decently privileged lives, you know,

9:07

and we all have food on the

9:09

table. Most of us are able to

9:11

go to school and just, you know,

9:13

we have roofs over our heads and

9:15

we take all this for granted. And

9:17

like the little things become such a

9:19

big deal, even though we have so

9:21

much to be thankful for. And so

9:23

I think that's a really great point.

9:25

So I want to talk about Buddhism

9:27

because like we just mentioned, you grow

9:29

up decently privileged, you know, you're from

9:31

LA, like, it's pretty unique that your

9:33

religion is Buddhism. So talk to us

9:35

about how you fell in love with

9:37

that ancient Asian religion. Oh,

9:39

sweet. So I grew up

9:41

a casual Methodist. That was kind

9:44

of the framework and tons

9:46

of respect, certainly for Jesus as

9:48

a teacher and realized being, that

9:51

said, the forms of all

9:53

that just didn't somehow connect with

9:55

me. The way I was

9:57

communicated just felt kind of small

9:59

and dogmatic and kind of

10:01

bossy. So then I land in

10:03

college. The doors are kicked

10:05

wide open, right? We're talking at

10:08

1969, 70 and all the rest

10:10

of that. And toward the

10:12

end of college, I just had an

10:14

interest in seeing, oh, what's out

10:16

there in the Eastern traditions, which I

10:18

didn't know really anything about. And

10:20

I encountered Buddhist teachings, which in the

10:22

roots of them are arguably not

10:25

even religious. They're psychological. essentially.

10:27

Basically, the fundamental observation of

10:29

the Buddha is that everything

10:31

is connected to everything else

10:34

and is continually changing. Flow

10:38

with that river if we ride that

10:40

horse in the direction it's going we suffer

10:42

less and we harm less on the

10:44

other hand if we fight the fact that

10:46

things are changing and if we try

10:48

to cling to our Experiences and try to

10:50

make certain things happen inside our minds

10:52

and we try to push away Various things

10:54

we create suffering and harm for ourselves

10:56

and other people pure and simple. And

10:59

so that's kind of where it

11:01

really began for me. And I

11:03

guess I should add as well

11:05

that that's what's been the heart

11:07

of the matter for me, these

11:10

fundamental, very psychological teachings about the

11:12

deep nature of the mind and

11:14

what are the causes of our

11:16

happiness and well -being and welfare

11:18

and harmony in the way we

11:20

live with others. And then how

11:22

can we embody those causes through

11:25

personal practice, learning. Now we're coming

11:27

back to that principle of learning

11:29

personal development, cultivation of what's skillful

11:31

and useful and good and enjoyable

11:33

inside ourselves. How can we actually

11:35

develop ourselves in that way? So

11:37

that's my orientation to all this.

11:40

And later on, I learned a

11:42

lot about both clinical psychology and

11:44

then certainly neuroscience. So if

11:46

you think about the combination

11:48

of hardcore brain science, clinical psychology

11:50

and contemplative wisdom, that combination

11:52

of those three things is just

11:54

packed with power and full

11:57

of skillful means for how we

11:59

can help ourselves and other

12:01

people. Yeah, 100%. And

12:03

honestly, I've interviewed a lot of

12:05

neuroscientists and neuropsychologists. And so

12:07

far, nobody has brought in this

12:09

element of this wisdom that

12:11

you're talking about, this Buddhism element.

12:13

So it's really unique. And

12:15

I'm excited for this conversation. So

12:17

let's talk about neurodharma. Dharma is

12:19

something that I didn't know what it

12:22

meant. So just starting off,

12:24

what does the name mean? Oh, great. word

12:27

from India originally, it means essentially

12:29

the way it is, the truth

12:31

of things. And it also can

12:33

mean accounts of the way it

12:35

is. So like a body of

12:38

wisdom, we could say, whether it's

12:40

a body of wisdom in Western

12:42

psychology or a body of wisdom

12:44

in a particular tradition, such as

12:46

the Buddhist tradition, which has many

12:48

aspects to it, right? Tibetan Buddhism,

12:50

Zan, Pure Land, other forms of

12:52

it as well. And I put

12:54

those two terms together because If

12:57

you kind of think about it, I'm going

12:59

to get a little geeky here. We can know

13:01

ourselves in two ways. First, we

13:03

can know ourselves subjectively from the

13:05

inside out in terms of our

13:07

experiences. And that was all

13:09

that was available to the early

13:11

teachers, such as the Buddha. And

13:13

certainly until very recently, that's the

13:15

only way we could know ourselves,

13:17

right? But with modern

13:19

biology and then neuroscience, And

13:22

then especially in the last 10,

13:24

20 years or so, neuropsychology really

13:27

coming together, we can know ourselves

13:29

from the outside in objectively. The

13:32

combination of the two, these two

13:34

ways of knowing ourselves is what I

13:36

call neuroderma. And we can

13:38

go back and forth, right? Here

13:40

we are, we're upset about something.

13:42

Somebody, our boss frowned at us,

13:44

you know? Somebody else took credit for

13:47

one of our good ideas. If

13:49

you're... a woman, as our daughter

13:51

has reported to us many times,

13:53

you're sitting in meetings and you

13:55

say something, everybody ignores you, then some

13:57

dude down at the other end

13:59

of the table says the same

14:01

thing five minutes later and everybody

14:03

starts clapping. Like what? Okay, this

14:05

is happening. It's happening inside your mind.

14:07

That's what you're experiencing. Meanwhile,

14:09

if you want, you can also

14:12

know Oh, I've got this amygdala

14:14

that is very sensitized to negative

14:16

experiences. And so it will routinely

14:18

turbocharge something that's kind of a

14:20

one or a two on the

14:22

object of yuckiness scale, but make

14:24

me feel like an eight or

14:26

a nine in terms of being

14:28

pissed off or wounded or hurt.

14:31

Oh, I can know that about myself.

14:33

And I can also know maybe

14:35

objectively that my amygdala got sensitized when

14:37

I grew up in a pretty

14:39

critical family. or in a culture that

14:41

was pretty critical or shaming, maybe

14:43

body shaming or who knows what else

14:45

it was doing, right? And by

14:47

knowing that objectively about the hardware, you

14:50

know, the three pounds of tofu -like tissue

14:52

inside the coconut and how it's cooking

14:54

away, knowing that objectively, right,

14:56

about ourselves can be matched together

14:58

with the subjective internal experience,

15:00

which then, let's say, might move

15:02

you to just going, hmm. knowing,

15:05

let's say, that the amygdala

15:07

has oxytocin receptors on it.

15:10

In other words, it has receptors

15:12

for a neurochemical that's released

15:14

with experiences of healthy connection,

15:16

and the action that those receptor

15:18

sites on the amygdala is

15:20

calming and inhibitory, like pumping

15:22

the brakes in a car

15:24

that's running away now down a

15:27

mountain. Knowing that, aha,

15:29

there I am upset about, let's

15:31

say, this thing that happened at

15:33

work, but I can now deliberately

15:35

think about or draw in the

15:38

feeling of being with people, real

15:40

people, including maybe my dog or

15:42

my cat, who actually care about

15:44

me. And when I bring them

15:46

to mind, I start feeling more

15:48

connected, more warm hearted, maybe my

15:50

caring for them as well. And

15:52

that is gonna increase oxytocin activity

15:54

in my brain and calm down

15:56

my poor little amygdala that's more

15:58

flashing red right now. That's

16:00

an example of neurodharma. It's

16:03

super fascinating. Why is

16:05

it important to be in this calm, steady

16:07

state? Why is that the best state

16:09

to be in? I would say

16:11

it like this. I'm a real person.

16:13

I've done a lot of rock climbing, for

16:15

example, and I can kind of get

16:17

excited and intense and so forth. I

16:20

think what's really helpful is

16:23

to be able to sustain

16:25

a kind of steadiness of self

16:27

-awareness. And I think that's what

16:29

you're really talking about. Around

16:31

that steadiness of self -awareness, sustained

16:34

mindfulness of what's happening inside and

16:36

outside. Around that can be all

16:38

the emotions in the world. There

16:41

can be passions sometime. There

16:43

can be great peacefulness and

16:45

tranquility. at other times. It's

16:47

all okay. But meanwhile, there

16:49

is this steadiness of mind. And that's

16:51

why, as you know, unlike many

16:53

people who've interviewed me, you actually read

16:55

my book. Thank you to your credit. You

16:58

know, as you know, the steadiness

17:00

of mind is the first of

17:02

these seven qualities of ultimately awakening

17:04

that we can certainly use. to

17:07

great benefit meanwhile, and

17:09

we can train. And it's

17:11

especially important to train

17:14

in our hyper -distractable, multitasking,

17:16

flooded with stimuli, endlessly distracted

17:18

time and culture. It's

17:20

really important to be able to stabilize

17:22

your own attention so you can plop it

17:24

onto what's useful and keep it there

17:27

or pull it away from what's not helpful,

17:29

including ruminating about something that's bugging you.

17:31

Totally and it's so funny like you're

17:33

taking everything from like a very scientific level

17:35

But I talked to experts and very

17:37

successful billionaires and CEOs and they also just

17:39

have gut feeling when I ask them

17:41

questions Like what is your secret to profiting

17:44

in life? It's one of the last

17:46

questions I ask on the show and a

17:48

lot of answers are being even keeled

17:50

You know don't be too high. Don't

17:52

be too low if something really bad happens

17:54

You know don't get into a rut

17:56

if something really good happens, you know,

17:58

don't get too cocky everybody says that you

18:00

know, you're taking it from a different

18:03

perspective, but I totally agree there. Can

18:05

I build on what you just said there? Yes. Sorry.

18:08

So this is great. So I'm

18:10

talking first, and I misunderstood

18:12

you, I think a little bit

18:14

about steadiness of mind. Additionally,

18:16

you're talking about what could be

18:19

called equanimity, being even keeled,

18:21

right? Because you can have steadiness

18:23

of mind while being roaring

18:25

upset about something and super rattled

18:27

by it. at

18:29

least you're steadily aware, which is

18:31

better than being swept away. Additionally,

18:35

I totally agree. And I think a

18:37

lot about what it feels like we're

18:39

in which we can be authentic. You

18:41

know, I'm a longtime therapist too. People

18:43

are upset. Things happen. Other

18:46

people are jerks. You're living in

18:48

a time of COVID right now.

18:50

We're tired. We're two plus years

18:52

in. Come on, right? We feel

18:54

these things. We can authentically feel

18:56

what we feel. Nothing in what

18:58

you and I are talking about

19:00

is about lying about how we

19:02

really feel, or suppressing it, or

19:04

joining with others who are trying

19:06

to suppress how we really feel,

19:08

or talk us out of it,

19:10

or blame us for how we

19:12

feel based on how they treat

19:14

us. We're not saying anything like

19:17

this. What we are saying, as

19:19

you all know, is that a

19:21

person can maintain and grow a

19:23

core, what feels like a core

19:25

of being inside themselves, that is,

19:28

has resilient well -being in it,

19:30

is calm and steady and even

19:32

keeled as you said. Even

19:34

when the world around us is

19:36

flashing red, even when there's physical

19:38

pain or sorrow or fear or

19:40

anger flying around inside your mind,

19:43

there can be that felt sense

19:45

of a core of being. And

19:47

what's really interesting is to build

19:49

it out increasingly. through

19:51

positive neuroplasticity, we can gradually

19:53

build up this kind of

19:55

resting state, this sort of

19:57

underlying touchstone. It feels like

20:00

home. You know, you can

20:02

get in touch with that, you can come home

20:04

to it, and you can stay in touch

20:06

with it. And over time, it can become more

20:08

and more your resting place. And as you

20:10

look out at the world going, whoa,

20:13

there's a lot of wild stuff flying around

20:15

out there. Yeah, and I know it takes

20:17

a lot of practice and it takes a

20:19

lot of building to make it more of

20:21

a habit and to actually change your brain,

20:23

like the makeup of your brain, which we'll

20:25

get into. So I do wanna

20:27

dig in on some more definitions because I

20:29

think the concept of awakening is one

20:31

that a lot of us have heard about,

20:33

but we don't really know exactly what

20:36

it means. And I know the foundation of

20:38

your book is about cultivating seven ways

20:40

that are the essence of awakening. So what

20:42

is awakening exactly? Okay, great. Like

20:45

I said, done a lot of rock climbing

20:47

and I've gone out with a friend of mine,

20:49

several friends. And one of my friends, when

20:51

we get out into wilderness, he just wants to

20:53

plop in a camp chair with a cup

20:55

of coffee, a cigar and a good novel. Okay,

20:58

I get it. I can relate. My

21:01

other buddy is a little bit more like

21:03

me, like after we kind of settle out

21:05

and have breakfast, we look around and then

21:07

we will see some kind of mountain or

21:09

hill or peak and we'll think, wow, it

21:11

would just be super cool to get up

21:14

there. What's up there at the upper reaches?

21:16

So there is something in us

21:18

that is curious. After

21:20

we work through a certain amount

21:22

of just feeling bad about

21:24

ourselves and bad in the world

21:26

and we're upset a lot

21:28

with other people and that kind

21:30

of starts to stabilize some,

21:32

we're doing okay, we're doing okay.

21:35

For many people, there's

21:37

a movement toward the

21:39

upper reaches of human

21:41

potential. how much stability of

21:43

deep contentment, peacefulness

21:46

and love is actually possible.

21:48

And what in the world are

21:50

people talking about who in all

21:52

the traditions of the world, including

21:54

those of the first people, the

21:56

indigenous people, there

21:58

are people who are

22:01

like the Olympic athletes

22:03

had said, of personal

22:05

development. And they seem

22:07

radiant, some of them seem

22:09

saintly, some of them function

22:11

within a very specific religious

22:13

tradition. Others seem to be outside

22:15

of any particular religious tradition.

22:17

And yet they have qualities about

22:19

them that seem very admirable

22:21

and desirable. And we think to

22:23

ourselves, well, I'd like a

22:25

little more of that myself, right?

22:28

So one of the powerful principles,

22:30

whether it's in business or athletics

22:32

or just everyday life, we look

22:34

to people who are a step

22:37

farther along. or maybe 10 steps

22:39

farther along. And we look

22:41

at them and we do a kind

22:43

of reverse engineering. What are the

22:45

qualities that they have that we could

22:47

internalize and live from increasingly in

22:49

ourselves? Which I think is one of

22:51

the great services that you perform

22:53

in your podcast, because in part yourself

22:55

and also those you talk with,

22:57

you're giving the rest of us access

22:59

to some of what it's like

23:01

to be those people that we can

23:03

actually, that's within reach. for

23:05

us to bring into

23:07

ourselves. And so in that

23:10

sense, I think of

23:12

awakening very broadly as the

23:14

gradual process of waking

23:16

up and moving increasingly up

23:18

the mountain of human

23:20

potential. Whatever route we take

23:22

could be an entirely secular route. It

23:24

could be a more religious route. It

23:26

could be a more spiritual route. As

23:28

we move up the mountain, those different

23:30

routes start to converge. And

23:33

we find as well that on each

23:35

of those routes, the same seven steps

23:37

again and again and again, which I'm

23:39

sure we'll get into in a second.

23:41

What are those seven steps? But that's

23:43

the fundamental process of awakening. I think

23:45

of it as the birthright of all

23:47

of us. A person doesn't have

23:50

to go all the way to the

23:52

top to be inspired. I will never climb

23:54

Mount Everest, but I'm inspired

23:56

by what it is like. at the

23:58

top there and the fact that

24:00

people actually get up to the very

24:02

top and I can use that

24:04

in my more humdrum, local rock climbing

24:07

kind of adventures. So

24:09

that's the thing I would just say

24:11

and the things that we're going

24:13

to talk about are not just for

24:15

so -called spiritual practice. Man,

24:17

oh man, oh man, they are

24:19

so useful. I have a good

24:21

background in business and they are so

24:23

useful in the trenches of everyday life.

24:26

Oh, 100%, I couldn't agree more there.

24:28

I mean, it's really just kind of

24:30

like emotional intelligence, to be honest. When

24:32

I was reading your stuff, I was

24:34

like, oh, this is really just how

24:36

to like control yourself and make sure

24:39

that, you know, you don't, you know,

24:41

go out either like mentally, you know,

24:43

get into a rut or do something

24:45

wrong with other people. And also, what

24:47

kind of, I mean,

24:49

almost all of us have had

24:51

an experience or more where everything

24:53

just clicks. You know, you're at

24:56

the beach, or the barbecue, or

24:58

your child is born, or you're

25:00

just hanging out, or you walk

25:02

outside, you see the stars, something,

25:05

and kabush. All

25:07

your cares and concerns fall away.

25:10

You're still functioning. You're still aware

25:12

of that email you need to

25:14

write, the thing you need to

25:16

do in the morning, but it

25:18

just falls away. And you feel

25:21

just dropped in to a deep

25:23

sense of well -being and all

25:25

rightness. often with a sense of

25:27

some kind of maybe mysterious connection

25:29

to everything, extending beyond time and

25:32

space even. And we've all had

25:34

a sense of that. Most of us certainly have had

25:36

a sense of that. Well,

25:38

why not spend more

25:40

time there, right?

25:42

Why not have that be

25:44

more and more of your

25:46

daily living? And when

25:48

people spend more time

25:50

there, they don't become selfish,

25:52

narcissistic, naval gazers. They

25:54

actually are moved increasingly to

25:57

be helpful to other

25:59

people, to cause less trouble,

26:01

and to bring others along into their

26:03

own stream of happiness. Yeah, why

26:06

not go for it? Why not develop

26:08

ourselves in that way? And as

26:10

you're talking about this, I can't help

26:12

but think of the opposite of

26:14

that, which is really monkey mind, right?

26:17

So I'd love for you to explain

26:19

what monkey mind is and how

26:21

a lot of us really operate every

26:23

single moment of our lives. Well, it's

26:26

a great term for this notion

26:28

that the monkey, the internal. subject,

26:31

the eye, as it

26:33

were, is looking out through

26:35

multiple sense windows, sights,

26:37

sounds, smells, and then

26:39

also looking out through the window

26:41

of thoughts or images, memories, emotions,

26:43

and all the rest of that.

26:45

Okay. And the monkey's bouncing around. And,

26:49

you know, we all have

26:51

that sense that we're living inside

26:53

a kind of popcorn machine.

26:55

We're thinking about this, then we

26:57

dart to that, that our

27:00

mind goes here. It's the definition

27:02

of no steadiness of mind,

27:04

right? There's no control. And I

27:06

think of attention as a

27:08

combination spotlight and vacuum cleaner. What

27:10

we're paying attention to is

27:13

illuminated by intention and through neuroplasticity,

27:15

we are drawing what we're

27:17

paying attention to into ourselves with

27:19

a negative bias. because the

27:21

brain is like Velcro for bad

27:23

experiences, but Teflon for positive

27:26

ones. So getting control

27:28

of that spotlight and vacuum

27:30

cleaner is critically important. And

27:32

monkey mind is the definition

27:34

of not having control. A

27:36

certain key point here, you know,

27:38

people can sometimes dismiss this as new

27:41

agey or a fairy or yoga

27:43

camp or something or other, but actually

27:45

it's as hardcore as it gets.

27:47

Because if you don't have this kind

27:49

of quality, of both steadiness of

27:51

mind and that internal even -killedness, you're

27:53

not in charge of yourself. You're

27:55

therefore not in charge of your life. You're

27:57

not autonomous. You're a puppet,

27:59

frankly, being pulled

28:01

by the strings of your

28:03

environment and the reactions

28:06

inside your body mind, you

28:08

know, to your environment. And

28:10

so if you want autonomy, If

28:12

you really want to be in charge

28:15

of yourself, the cultivation of steadiness

28:17

of mind and, you know, that emotional

28:19

balance, even kildness you talk about

28:21

is deeply important. And also, there's the

28:23

opportunity to be competent, to

28:25

become more skillful. at this kind

28:27

of stuff. I know so many people

28:29

who've invested deeply in getting good

28:32

at stuff that they know doesn't matter

28:34

very much, that their job or

28:36

their golf game or something like that.

28:38

And yet they'll hardly put five

28:40

minutes a day into getting more competent

28:42

at managing their own thoughts and

28:44

feelings in their own inner world. Yeah,

28:46

it is super important to do

28:48

that because most of our thoughts are

28:50

unconscious or subconscious I think it's

28:52

only 4 % of our thoughts are

28:55

actually things that we can control and

28:57

the rest is just good habits

28:59

and really just redesigning our brain like

29:01

you talk about Let's hold that thought

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your selling today. That's Shopify.com

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slash profiting. So

34:13

to help further drive this point,

34:15

I'd love for you to explain how

34:17

we actually react to things on

34:19

a biological level. Like how does our

34:21

brain influence the way that we

34:23

react to our reality? Super

34:25

deep question. Really great.

34:27

So this is a major

34:29

topic in science. Neuroscience

34:32

is a baby science, especially if

34:34

you compare it, say, to astronomy, you

34:36

know, starting a couple thousand years

34:38

ago. The basic idea

34:40

is that we are having thoughts

34:42

and feelings, we're having reactions, sights

34:45

are occurring, sounds, sensations, memories, images,

34:47

plans, all the rest of that.

34:49

All of that stuff

34:52

correlates in some ways

34:54

that are still not

34:56

entirely clear with underlying

34:58

neurobiological activity. So we

35:00

have mind and matter, two

35:02

aspects of reality that are

35:04

correlating together. Okay.

35:07

The growing understanding

35:09

is that our

35:11

mental processes, our

35:13

experiences, which are enlisting

35:16

underlying physical activities, processes

35:18

in our nervous system

35:20

to proceed, our

35:22

mental activities that are

35:24

enlisting these neural activities

35:26

can force a kind

35:28

of lasting trace to

35:30

be left behind for

35:32

our own growing skillfulness.

35:35

happiness, resilience, and well

35:37

-being. We can actually use

35:39

our minds to change our brains,

35:41

to change our minds for the

35:44

better through positive neuroplasticity. That's kind

35:46

of the big picture. And there

35:48

are so many examples of that.

35:50

There's tons of research that shows,

35:52

for example, that people who've had

35:54

a lot of stressful or traumatic

35:57

experiences have sensitized, as I was

35:59

saying earlier, their amygdala. So they

36:01

react. more readily and more loudly. And

36:04

chronic stress also through cortisol

36:06

release weakens the nearby part of

36:08

the brain, the hippocampus, which

36:10

is supposed to put the brakes

36:12

on the amygdala and also

36:14

put things in context. And third,

36:16

the hippocampus signals the hypothalamus,

36:19

another underlying part of your brain

36:21

to stop calling for stress

36:23

hormones. This might seem

36:25

a little technical or mechanistic,

36:27

but it has actually huge

36:29

implications that being

36:31

irritated, frustrated, driven,

36:34

pressured, contracted, et

36:37

cetera, et cetera, today,

36:39

let alone being traumatized today,

36:41

gradually makes us more

36:43

vulnerable and reactive to stressors

36:45

and pressures tomorrow. So

36:48

it's really important first to

36:50

engage in mindfulness, which research also

36:52

shows does various things inside

36:54

your brain that acts like a

36:56

circuit breaker so that we

36:58

can be having negative emotions like

37:01

fear or anger flowing through

37:03

awareness, but if we're mindful of

37:05

them, there's a spaciousness. There's

37:07

a distance from that that stops

37:09

the reinforcement of the negativity

37:11

and the sensitization inside our own

37:14

brain. And as just a

37:16

very cool, quick hack, I'll tell

37:18

people two things they can

37:20

do that are grounded in really

37:22

recent research that are super

37:24

neat. One is If you're

37:27

upset about something or you're in a

37:29

stressful situation or the oatmeal is

37:31

really hitting the fan around you, tune

37:33

into the internal sensations of breathing.

37:35

You could even do it right now.

37:37

Get a sense of the air

37:39

flowing in and air flowing out. It's

37:42

not airy -fairy. It's as grounded as

37:44

it gets. The internal sense of

37:46

your chest or... know, lungs or belly

37:48

expanding as you inhale and kind of

37:51

coming back in as you exhale, just

37:53

taking privately. No one needs to know

37:55

you're doing that in the board meeting,

37:57

right? Just doing it internally activates a

37:59

part of your brain that's called the

38:01

insula. The insula is a region or

38:03

two of them on the inside of

38:06

the temporal lobes on either side. And

38:08

the insula is very involved

38:10

with interoception, technical term for tuning

38:12

into yourself, including your gut

38:15

feelings. So as you

38:17

tune into yourself, the insula

38:19

gets more active, which immediately

38:21

quiets like a circuit breaker,

38:23

the so -called default mode network

38:25

of your brain. I

38:28

call it the ruminator, which is

38:30

where we go when we're starting to

38:32

spin out with our monkey mind

38:34

resentments, regrets, self -criticism, what it could

38:36

have showed us, fantasies of engines and

38:38

all the rest of that. Just

38:40

tuning in to your internal sensations and

38:42

you can just kind of play

38:44

with it. Immediately, quiets the

38:47

internal monkey mind and relaxes

38:49

the sense of being a

38:51

beleaguered self. Just that. That's

38:53

a quick hack. You

38:55

know, half five seconds, a few

38:57

seconds, one breath, boom, you're

38:59

starting to feel the benefit. Second

39:01

quick hack, lift your gaze to

39:03

the horizon. Look out

39:05

the window, look across the

39:07

room, get a sense of the bigger picture,

39:10

or just even imagine it. Neurologically,

39:12

what that does is it

39:14

moves you out of this kind

39:16

of egocentric self -referential, oh, what

39:18

are they doing to me

39:20

or I'm gonna get them or

39:22

my precious, moves us

39:25

out of that kind of

39:27

tense contracted place into a

39:29

more objective view, a big

39:31

picture view, which feels much

39:33

less stressful, much more in

39:35

the present moment and much

39:37

more effective. So just right there.

39:39

two little hacks, tuning into

39:41

the internal sensations of breathing or

39:44

lifting your gaze to the

39:46

horizon somehow can immediately, neurologically, this

39:48

is evidence -based, change the

39:50

way your brain is functioning, which

39:52

then in turn changes the way your

39:54

mind is functioning and therefore in

39:56

turn changes the way your life functions

39:58

as well. I love that. We

40:00

love actionable advice on the podcast. So

40:03

let's talk about this neuroplasticity

40:05

in terms of the fact that

40:07

it doesn't happen overnight. You

40:09

need to practice with mindfulness, meditation.

40:12

hours, days, months, years so that

40:14

you can actually change the

40:16

biological format of your brain. And

40:18

I'd love to kind of

40:20

drive this point home by talking

40:22

about how your brain changes

40:25

depending on how experienced you are

40:27

with meditation. So let's take

40:29

a person who did like a

40:31

three day meditation workshop versus

40:33

somebody who spent months meditating versus

40:35

a Tibetan monk who spent

40:37

their whole lifetime meditating. How does

40:39

their brain kind of change?

40:41

This is great. So. First off,

40:43

neuroplasticity just basically means that

40:45

the nervous system changes or is

40:47

changeable based on the information

40:49

flowing through it. And the information

40:51

flowing through it is the

40:54

basis for what we experience in

40:56

terms of our unconsciousness. All

40:58

right. Those changes

41:00

can happen within half

41:02

a second actually

41:04

as different neurons fire

41:06

together, different neurochemicals

41:08

flow. It's kind of extraordinary

41:10

just to imagine how small things are.

41:12

I mean, you could put the cell

41:14

body of roughly five neurons, typical neurons,

41:16

side by side in the width of

41:18

one of your hairs. the

41:21

little connections between neurons, the synapses,

41:23

you could put several thousand of them

41:25

side by side in the width

41:27

of a single hair. Okay,

41:29

so it's really, things happen really fast. More

41:31

structural, not just functional

41:34

changes, typically take seconds or

41:36

minutes or days. It's

41:38

a longer process whereby new

41:40

connections form between neurons. Existing

41:43

connections become sensitized

41:45

or desensitized. Neurochemical

41:47

ebbs and flows kind of

41:49

shift over time. Different larger

41:51

regions of the brain can

41:53

start coordinating more effectively with

41:55

each other. Those kind of

41:57

changes can take longer to

41:59

stabilize, but the beginning

42:01

of it is typically a breath

42:04

at a time. And when we

42:06

talk about how much it takes, to

42:09

actually change things for the better over

42:11

time. Honestly, my kind

42:13

of bedrock threshold is five

42:15

minutes a day. Just

42:17

five minutes a day. Most people

42:19

will not put five minutes a day.

42:22

into some kind of personal practice.

42:24

But even if you give it

42:26

that much, let alone more, like

42:29

20 minutes a day or 45

42:31

minutes a day, any kind of

42:33

practice, gratitude practice, compassion practices, meditation,

42:36

affirmations, focusing on your self worth, building

42:38

up kind of a lovingness in

42:41

your own heart, whatever, or maybe even

42:43

a religious practice, whatever it actually

42:45

might be for you, it's

42:47

the law of little things. It's usually

42:49

lots of little bad things that moved

42:51

us to a bad place and it's

42:53

going to be lots of little good

42:55

things that move us to a better

42:57

one, which for me is extraordinarily hopeful.

42:59

It's profoundly hopeful because that's what's under

43:01

our control. It's the little things in

43:03

the most important minute of our life,

43:05

which is the next one minute after

43:07

minute continuously. That's where we actually have

43:09

influence. And so it's up

43:12

to us to use that influence and

43:14

no one can defeat us. No one

43:16

can stop us from doing that, which

43:18

I just love fantastically. So all that

43:20

said I can tell you how your

43:22

brain changes because you seem like a

43:24

meditator and I can tell you how

43:27

your brain has probably changed over time

43:29

and maybe others as well and For

43:31

key areas, I'll do this really fast

43:33

because it illustrates some larger points if

43:35

that's okay. So First off parts of

43:37

your brain typically behind the forehead that

43:39

are involved in regulating attention and also

43:42

that called top -down or executive regulation of

43:44

our emotions and our actions in general,

43:47

those neural circuits literally

43:49

build structure. New

43:51

connections are forming, more

43:53

blood is coming to those particular regions

43:55

that are in effect kind of like

43:57

the chair of the internal mental committee. You

44:00

know, the physical basis for that

44:02

is located in prefrontal regions, mainly right

44:04

behind the forehead. Well, that's

44:06

one major change that happens.

44:08

The second major change that is

44:10

found in people who have

44:12

kind of a semi -decent mindfulness

44:14

practice with meditation as well, is

44:16

that there's more regulation of

44:18

emotions. The subcortical areas of

44:21

the amygdala, the hippocampus, and so

44:23

forth, those get better regulated. They're

44:25

happier. They're less freaked out. They're

44:27

less angry. They don't fly off

44:29

the handle so much. That's the

44:31

second major change that's found structurally.

44:33

in people who are longtime meditators.

44:36

Third major change is greater body

44:38

awareness. People become more in touch

44:40

with themselves. And being in touch

44:42

with your body is the foundation

44:44

of being in touch with your

44:46

emotions and your deep, deep longings

44:48

and important values and most heartfelt

44:51

desires. So that's a great third

44:53

change as well, including through structural

44:55

changes, particularly in the insula, which

44:57

like I said, is involved in

44:59

body awareness. And then last, the

45:01

sense of self. This is very

45:03

interesting. People spend less and less

45:06

time in the default mode network,

45:08

the ruminator, which is very saturated

45:10

with a sense of me, myself,

45:12

and I, especially an unhappy sense

45:14

of me, myself, and I, you

45:16

know, I've been cheated and mistreated.

45:18

Why don't I get loved, right?

45:21

You know, country and Western song

45:23

list. And instead, That

45:25

activity decreases, and there's more activity

45:27

in other parts of the brain,

45:29

particularly on the sides of the

45:31

brain, that are more associated with

45:33

a broader, more open sense of

45:35

who you are. You still know

45:38

who you are. You still stop

45:40

at red lights. You still speak

45:42

up for yourself. You don't tolerate

45:44

mistreatment of yourself or those others

45:46

you care about, but it's in

45:48

a much less self -centered or

45:50

beleaguered kind of way, which is,

45:52

wow. and incredible relief. So those

45:54

are four major changes, well documented

45:56

in people's brains who have a

45:58

regular practice of mindfulness and especially

46:00

meditation. That's so incredible.

46:03

You know, as you're talking, all

46:05

I can keep thinking is

46:07

that people who meditate and who

46:09

practice mindfulness, they're just happier.

46:11

Right? Their default state is naturally

46:13

happier. And no matter what

46:15

happens in their external, they

46:17

know how to process those experiences to

46:19

actually just be happy and content and

46:21

grateful and not let it totally off

46:23

balance how they feel about themselves and

46:25

how they feel about the world. So

46:28

it brings me to this other really fascinating

46:30

point. And I think one of the most

46:32

interesting things I found in your book was

46:34

this concept of add on suffering. because

46:36

you basically brought in this concept

46:38

from Buddhism and tied it together with

46:41

everything and it really just helped

46:43

it all come together. So explain what

46:45

add -on suffering is to us. Inherently

46:48

in life, there's just a

46:50

certain amount of unavoidable discomfort, physical

46:52

and emotional. You

46:54

care about other people and if you

46:56

see injustice landing on them or you

46:58

just know, wow, it's really tough for

47:01

them to be dealing with what they're

47:03

dealing with, you're going to feel it. in

47:06

the Buddhist metaphor, the first arrow

47:08

or first dart in life. It's inherent,

47:10

it's unavoidable. If we fight it,

47:12

if we beat ourselves up about it,

47:14

if we rage at others about

47:16

it, it just makes it worse. That's

47:19

the add -on part. much

47:21

of our suffering, including subtle

47:23

forms of uneasiness or a gnawing

47:26

sense of inadequacy. I always

47:28

have to keep proving myself. I

47:30

have to always keep impressing

47:32

other people. That is

47:34

what we add to the

47:36

basic conditions of life, which

47:39

in and of themselves are

47:41

often just conditions in life,

47:43

they're basically neutral. They're

47:45

not inherently negative. They're not inherently

47:47

a first start, but then

47:49

we get agitated about them. And

47:51

when you realize that, it's

47:53

incredibly hopeful because if we are

47:55

the makers of the majority

47:57

of our own suffering, not diminishing

47:59

or not minimizing the actual

48:01

first starts of life, but when

48:04

we start to realize how

48:06

much we add to them with

48:08

our complaints about the world

48:10

and ourselves, our criticism

48:12

of ourselves, our nastiness toward other

48:14

people are obsessing repetitively in

48:16

ways that have no added value.

48:18

There's no learning. We're not

48:20

gaining anything from doing laps around

48:22

the misery track. We're just

48:24

digging that track deeper actually through

48:26

sensitizing ourselves in part driven

48:28

by the negativity bias of the

48:30

brain. When you start to

48:32

realize, wow, I'm the source of

48:35

that myself. Hey, you

48:37

might be depressed for a day or two or

48:39

three. I have been when I realized, I

48:42

was a key factor in all

48:44

those things I was blaming others

48:46

for. But then you

48:49

start to realize, wow, that is so

48:51

hopeful, that is so fantastic, because

48:53

if I can stop adding. you

48:55

know, add -on suffering through

48:57

my reactivity, my resentments,

48:59

my self -criticisms, my meanness,

49:02

my obsessiveness. If I

49:04

stop doing that, I'm gonna be

49:06

so much happier and lighter and

49:08

more able to be good for

49:10

other people as well. And

49:12

more successful, I have to say that

49:14

as I was reading this, I was

49:16

thinking about all the, because I think

49:18

everybody has a spectrum of their add

49:20

-on suffering. There's some people who really

49:22

do it a lot. and they

49:24

hindered themselves from any type of growth.

49:26

And then there's some people who do it

49:28

a little bit and they're more successful

49:30

because they don't navigate the world blaming everything

49:32

but themselves in terms of where they're

49:34

at in life. So given everything

49:36

we've learned about neuroplasticity, how can

49:38

we counteract this? Oh, that's

49:41

great. I think of people like

49:43

you described, including in business, particularly the

49:45

top performers are kind of more this

49:47

way. They don't have so much friction

49:49

between themselves and the world. I mean,

49:51

it is what it is. They work

49:53

hard. They have goals. You know, they

49:56

have aims. There's a work ethic there.

49:58

But you don't feel like they're friction.

50:01

It's like life. I'm doing this

50:03

gesture. It's a rope that moves through

50:05

our hands. And as we kind

50:07

of clench it, that's what creates friction

50:09

and adds on all that heat,

50:11

that extra suffering. So how do we

50:13

actually do that? I think of

50:16

three keys. fundamentally that are just kind

50:18

of summarized as deal with the

50:20

bad, turn to the good, take in

50:22

the good. And that right

50:24

there is really a roadmap again

50:26

and again and again for dealing

50:28

with life. So first off, deal

50:30

with the bad. If you have

50:32

real challenges, take action. You know,

50:34

as a longtime therapist, I've really

50:36

learned, man, there's no replacement for

50:38

doing what you can. Okay,

50:41

you're knocked down by life. Have

50:43

some compassion for yourself. Okay.

50:45

Got it. Got it. Totally sucks.

50:48

And what can you do about

50:50

it inside your mind and

50:52

out there in the world, right?

50:54

Including how can you give

50:56

yourself a little jumpstart, that little

50:58

spark that then, you know,

51:00

can move you forward. So deal

51:03

with the bad. And part

51:05

of dealing with the bad is

51:07

accepting it mindfully. It's there. You're

51:09

upset in the moment. It's how you

51:11

feel. It's how you feel maybe because of

51:14

your own history. If you fight

51:16

how you feel, you just make it

51:18

worse. It sticks around, you know, right?

51:20

Well, we resist, persist. No.

51:22

So deal with the bad in this

51:24

skillful way, including through mindful spaciousness. Second,

51:28

when you can, and you may

51:30

not be able to do it during

51:33

the first shock or the first intensity

51:35

or the overwhelming pain, but as soon

51:37

as you can, also turn to the

51:39

good. What is also true? out in

51:41

the world and inside yourself. Who are

51:43

the people you can turn to? What

51:45

are the strengths you can draw upon

51:47

inside yourself? What is

51:49

still working alongside? What has

51:51

just fallen apart? What are

51:53

the flowers that are still blooming? What

51:55

is the goodness in the heart

51:57

of other people and inside yourself? What

52:00

are the possibilities that still remain?

52:02

Turn to the good, not as a

52:04

bypass. not as a

52:06

spiritual or other kind of bypass

52:08

of what is the bad, the

52:10

problematic and the painful, but in

52:12

part as a way to resource

52:14

yourself to deal even more effectively

52:16

with what has gone so horribly

52:18

wrong. Turn to the good and

52:20

then especially learn from the good.

52:23

Most people skip this step. They

52:25

don't take in the good. They're

52:27

experiencing something useful. The moment of

52:29

feeling gritty. a moment of determination,

52:31

a moment of commitment to work

52:33

to their exercise program or being

52:35

more patient with their aging relatives

52:38

or being more rested in their

52:40

own sobriety, you know, or just

52:42

simple happiness or well -being. They're

52:44

having that feeling, but they don't

52:46

marinate in it for a beat

52:48

or two or three or a

52:50

breath or two or three. They

52:53

don't marinate in it. And so,

52:55

In the famous saying, the neurons

52:57

that are firing together don't yet

52:59

have time to wire together as

53:01

well. Take in the good. slow

53:03

it down. I talk a lot about

53:05

the how of this. It usually takes

53:08

a breath or two at a time.

53:10

You can take longer if you really

53:12

want, but slow it down to receive

53:14

into yourself, you know, the hard one

53:16

fruits of whatever you're practicing in the

53:18

time. So to me, that's the big,

53:20

those are the big headlines, those three.

53:22

And there's a lot of research that

53:25

underlies the, that describes and documents the

53:27

neuro, the neuropsychology of this process. Yeah,

53:29

and I think in your book, you

53:31

said it in a really catchy way.

53:33

You said, let it be, let

53:35

it go, let it in. And I

53:37

thought that was super catchy and something that

53:39

we could just do anytime throughout the

53:41

day when we just hit any sort of

53:44

obstacle. It's something that we can

53:46

tell ourselves to kind of reset and

53:48

focus on the good. Yeah, super.

53:50

Thank you for calling that out. Of course.

53:53

We'll be right back after a quick break

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58:48

so let's talk about the seven

58:51

ways of being. That's steadiness, lovingness,

58:53

fullness, wholeness, nowness, oneness, and timelessness.

58:55

And you say that they go

58:57

together in clusters naturally. So let's

58:59

start with the first three ways,

59:01

steadiness, lovingness, and fullness. What are

59:03

these ways of being? So here's

59:05

what I'm talking about. Like I

59:08

said, Let's look at

59:10

those Olympic athletes of human happiness

59:12

and well -being, and then reverse engineer

59:14

back to ourselves. What are qualities

59:16

we see in them that we

59:18

can develop in ourselves and even

59:20

begin to see already inside ourselves?

59:22

So the first three qualities

59:24

are steadiness of mind, a

59:27

lovingness of heart, and a

59:29

fullness of being that makes

59:31

us, helps us be even

59:33

keeled. Aquanimous, as you

59:35

described. in your core. Around the

59:37

edges, you could be howling

59:39

at the moon with good friends

59:41

on a Saturday night, but

59:43

in your core, the core of

59:45

your being, there's a fundamental

59:48

calm, steady clarity there. So those

59:50

three definitely hang together and

59:52

they're kind of psychological. They're probably

59:54

very familiar to us. Interestingly, we

59:57

can develop them even to the point

59:59

of perfection. I mean, people who are

1:00:01

really at the top of

1:00:03

the mountain. And I know people, I

1:00:05

know some people who are very close

1:00:07

to the summit and I've accessed teachers

1:00:09

who are hanging out there basically. They

1:00:12

have tremendous steadiness of mind. Their

1:00:14

heart is warm, even if

1:00:16

they're being assertive and dealing with

1:00:18

stuff. And underneath it all,

1:00:20

you can tell they're just rested

1:00:23

in an underlying mood of

1:00:25

peacefulness, contentment and love. You could

1:00:27

see that in them, and

1:00:29

we can develop this in ourselves.

1:00:32

Then there's that second cluster,

1:00:34

which is a little more,

1:00:36

maybe seemingly airy -fairy, and

1:00:38

yet when you kind of hear me

1:00:40

talk about it, or when you look at

1:00:42

it inside yourself, you go, oh yeah,

1:00:44

I have a sense of that. I have

1:00:46

a sense of that. So the

1:00:48

next three are wholeness, nowness, and

1:00:50

allness. So I'm making up some words

1:00:52

here. What do I mean by

1:00:54

that? The first wholeness

1:00:56

is a sense of letting yourself

1:00:58

be as a whole and

1:01:01

accepting yourself as a whole without

1:01:03

being divided internally and at

1:01:05

war with yourself. Just that. Doesn't

1:01:08

that feel like a relief? Like,

1:01:10

oh, there's utter self -acceptance. You're still

1:01:13

a work in progress. You're still

1:01:15

learning a few things. You're still healing

1:01:17

a few things. You're still letting

1:01:19

go of a few things inside a

1:01:21

context in which you really accept

1:01:23

yourself and you have a sense of

1:01:26

abiding as who you are as

1:01:28

a whole, okay? That's

1:01:31

wholeness. Second, nowness, that

1:01:33

means basically you're in the

1:01:35

present, you know? The power of

1:01:37

now. Be here now. You're

1:01:39

in the present. Rather than

1:01:41

obsessing about the past or worrying

1:01:43

about the future, you're in

1:01:45

the present. One thing,

1:01:48

for example, that you start to

1:01:50

notice when you're truly in the

1:01:52

present, kind of right at the

1:01:54

front edge of now receiving what's

1:01:56

arising as it occurs, is that

1:01:59

most of the time you're already

1:02:01

basically okay. It may

1:02:03

not be perfect in the

1:02:05

present, but no shark is chewing

1:02:07

on your leg. You're not

1:02:09

devastated by terrible news. You're basically

1:02:11

all right right now in

1:02:13

the present, whatever the future may

1:02:15

hold. And that recognition that

1:02:18

you actually are, basically all right

1:02:20

right now and now and

1:02:22

now is extremely grounding and strengthening

1:02:24

especially if like me you

1:02:26

have any inclinations or toward anxiety

1:02:28

or you've acquired you know

1:02:30

anxiety because of your nightmare boss

1:02:32

or you know the guy

1:02:34

down the hall over the years

1:02:36

you're basically all right right

1:02:38

now so coming into the present

1:02:41

and For each one of

1:02:43

these in the book, I talk

1:02:45

about very current cutting edge

1:02:47

plausible neuroscience that underlies each one

1:02:49

of these qualities. What's happening

1:02:51

in the brain when you have

1:02:53

the sense of present moment

1:02:55

awareness, you're really in the present.

1:02:57

And therefore, how can we

1:02:59

cultivate that so that more and

1:03:02

more you can be stably

1:03:04

there? And then the third is

1:03:06

allness, fancy way of talking

1:03:08

about relaxing the contracted sense of

1:03:10

self. put upon by others,

1:03:12

maybe frankly, kind of narcissistic, relaxing

1:03:14

that, relaxing self preoccupations,

1:03:16

relaxing that urgency to

1:03:18

keep impressing other people as

1:03:20

if you haven't already

1:03:23

done enough, relaxing that while

1:03:25

opening into everything, feeling

1:03:27

connected. You know, you're connected, right?

1:03:29

You realize that you're a

1:03:31

you, like Hala is different from

1:03:34

Rick, right? We're like

1:03:36

two separate waves in the

1:03:38

ocean. different causes and conditions

1:03:40

are manifesting as you and

1:03:42

I right now. And still

1:03:44

we're part of the larger

1:03:46

sea. And our deep nature

1:03:48

is water, which you can

1:03:50

really go along way with.

1:03:52

So here we have that

1:03:54

third cluster of wholeness, nowness,

1:03:56

and allness. And this is

1:03:58

a cultivation for a lot of

1:04:01

people. You know, this is

1:04:03

more of a personal development if you

1:04:05

have a particular interest in it. And still,

1:04:07

wow. In everyday life,

1:04:09

the more that the chips are

1:04:11

down and things are happening, the

1:04:13

more useful it is to be

1:04:15

able to bring your whole self

1:04:17

to bear without fighting with parts

1:04:19

of yourself while staying in the

1:04:21

present, not obsessing about the past

1:04:23

or freaking out about the future,

1:04:25

while being very aware of how

1:04:27

many factors are in play. and

1:04:29

we're connected to many factors and

1:04:31

therefore there are many things out

1:04:33

there that might be useful or

1:04:35

certainly are important to take into

1:04:37

account. That's extremely helpful even in

1:04:39

the middle of the worst day

1:04:41

at your business or your marriage

1:04:43

or your life. Then

1:04:45

last, timelessness is

1:04:47

really the ultimate. For

1:04:49

some people, that sense

1:04:51

of timelessness is merely an

1:04:54

extraordinary experience and that's how

1:04:56

they understand it. That's cool. Fine

1:04:59

with that. That's where they wanted

1:05:01

to stop for many, many, many

1:05:03

people. They have had,

1:05:05

maybe they have in an

1:05:07

ongoing way, a sense that

1:05:09

there's more to everything than

1:05:11

what we see. There's

1:05:13

mysteriously more. In

1:05:15

the Buddhist tradition, that

1:05:17

more is talked about in

1:05:20

a pretty stripped -down way

1:05:22

as what is eternal. Unconditioned,

1:05:25

not subject to a rising and

1:05:27

passing away, period.

1:05:30

Other traditions bring more of

1:05:32

a sense of consciousness, even lovingness,

1:05:34

even a personality to that

1:05:36

ultimate capital G ground. I'm

1:05:39

not preaching here. I'm just

1:05:41

naming things that people talk about

1:05:43

and feel and maybe your

1:05:45

possibilities, myself. I

1:05:48

think there's more to it than

1:05:50

what we see school and both

1:05:52

in my experience and my kind

1:05:54

of rational informed view of things.

1:05:56

And that's what timelessness is about.

1:05:58

And again, here too, we don't

1:06:00

have to relate to that in

1:06:03

a religious way. We can relate

1:06:05

to it as simply an openness

1:06:07

to mystery, an openness

1:06:09

to possibility, a

1:06:11

sense of possibly a

1:06:13

kind of underlying love

1:06:18

even, that's woven

1:06:20

into the ongoing wellspring

1:06:22

of emergence of

1:06:24

reality continuously and with

1:06:26

a kind of

1:06:28

attitude of don't know

1:06:31

so much, not

1:06:33

so sure, could be.

1:06:35

Just that alone is an imitation

1:06:37

into timelessness. Super,

1:06:40

super interesting stuff. If

1:06:42

anybody wants to pick up your

1:06:45

book, Neurodharma, where can they find it?

1:06:47

Well, thank you. It's everywhere, you

1:06:49

know, the usual places, you know, and

1:06:51

all the rest of it. And

1:06:53

it was, it's been extremely well reviewed.

1:06:55

It's a really, I have to

1:06:57

say, you know, it was my sixth

1:06:59

book. And as a parent, you

1:07:01

know, in a sense, I'm the parent

1:07:03

of all my books. I love

1:07:05

all my children, but I like Neurodharma

1:07:07

the best. It's a culminating book.

1:07:10

I'm very personal in it. It's intimate.

1:07:12

It's super practical. It's very

1:07:14

heartfelt and it's very well -referenced.

1:07:16

So if you want the

1:07:18

evidence, you want the goods, our

1:07:20

son who played poker partly through college

1:07:22

to put himself through college, talked about having

1:07:24

the nuts in his hand, having the

1:07:26

goodies in his hand. I got the nuts

1:07:28

in that book that support as evidence

1:07:30

when I'm saying in it. I really encourage

1:07:33

people to check it out. I agree.

1:07:35

It was a really easy read, even though

1:07:37

I'm not a neuroscientist. And it was

1:07:39

filled with actionable ways to actually get started

1:07:41

and to learn how to meditate. And

1:07:43

you gave practices. So I really enjoyed it.

1:07:45

I highly recommend it. to use this

1:07:47

in everyday life, not just in your meditation.

1:07:50

And if you want, I'll even leave you with the five

1:07:52

minute challenge. Sure. You

1:07:54

want it? Okay. So like I said, most

1:07:56

people won't give five minutes a day to their

1:07:58

practice, but you could do this if you

1:08:00

want to. And this supports what I wrote about

1:08:02

in the book, not just in formalities

1:08:05

of meditation, but in everyday life,

1:08:07

which is where mostly we're going to

1:08:09

heal and grow in everyday life.

1:08:11

First, as you flow through your day,

1:08:14

a handful of times every day, slow down

1:08:16

for a breath to take in the

1:08:18

good. Like right now,

1:08:20

I'm having a nice interaction with you.

1:08:22

You're a solid person. We don't know each

1:08:24

other well. It's not more than what

1:08:26

it is, but it's not less than what

1:08:29

it is. We can taking the good

1:08:31

of this feeling that we have with each

1:08:33

other and how much enjoyment I've gotten

1:08:35

out of this certainly for myself. So slow

1:08:37

it down, take in the good. That'll

1:08:39

take you maybe a minute a day. Second,

1:08:42

no one thing in particular you

1:08:44

are developing inside yourself these days.

1:08:46

What's one thing in particular you're

1:08:48

trying to grow? What's the superpower

1:08:51

you're working on these days? It

1:08:53

could be something very specific like

1:08:55

training yourself to be a little

1:08:57

more patient. when things happen around

1:08:59

you. So you don't just say

1:09:01

the first thing that pops into

1:09:04

your head. Or maybe you're working

1:09:06

on being less scared of public

1:09:08

speaking or asserting yourself in a

1:09:10

meeting or being less vulnerable to

1:09:12

just brooding about a word someone

1:09:14

used or a little bit of

1:09:17

a dismissiveness you encountered and feeling

1:09:19

really bad for days afterward. You're

1:09:21

working on that. So whatever it

1:09:23

is you're trying to develop more

1:09:25

inside yourself as a strength, focus

1:09:27

on opportunities A, to experience that

1:09:30

or some factor of it each

1:09:32

day and be taking the good. Slow

1:09:35

it down. Once you get that good

1:09:37

song playing in the inner iPod, turn on

1:09:39

the inner recorder so increasingly it becomes

1:09:41

a part of you. That might take another

1:09:43

minute or so a day. And

1:09:45

then third, make sure that every

1:09:47

day, often just before you go to bed,

1:09:49

that's a good time to do it. Do

1:09:52

what I call marinating in deep

1:09:54

green. In other words, instead of the

1:09:56

red zone or the pink zone

1:09:58

of feeling stressed and pressured and irritated

1:10:00

and, you know, resentful and hurt

1:10:02

over the course of a day, we

1:10:04

deliberately rest. We find an authentic

1:10:06

sense in the present of peacefulness, contentment

1:10:09

and love. Whatever way you can,

1:10:11

and I offer a lot of ways

1:10:13

into this in the book itself, whatever

1:10:15

way you can, slow it down

1:10:18

for a minute or two or three.

1:10:20

If it's the last thing you

1:10:22

do before your head hits the pillow,

1:10:24

to just kind of reset and

1:10:26

come home to this resting place inside

1:10:28

yourself of a basic calm. a

1:10:30

sense of enoughness and contentment

1:10:32

and a basic warmheartedness. As you

1:10:35

rest there, you will be

1:10:37

changing your brain. You will be changing

1:10:39

your nervous system in your body and

1:10:41

gradually hardwiring that sense of peacefulness, contentment

1:10:43

and love into the core of your

1:10:45

being so that you can take it

1:10:47

with you increasingly wherever you go. That's

1:10:50

the five minute challenge. I love that.

1:10:52

So I was just going to ask

1:10:54

you and you answered it for me.

1:10:56

What is one actionable thing we can

1:10:58

do every day to become more young

1:11:00

and profiting tomorrow? So thank you for

1:11:02

that. And the last question

1:11:04

we ask all of our guests is what

1:11:07

is your secret to profiting in life? It's

1:11:10

a fantastic question because the way

1:11:12

I'm going to slightly translate it,

1:11:14

including from my own business experience,

1:11:16

is durable gain, lasting gain,

1:11:18

the good that lasts. So much of

1:11:21

what we experience is nice in the

1:11:23

moment, but it runs right through our

1:11:25

fingers, right? There's no return on

1:11:27

investment. There's no ROI. So

1:11:29

what is it that leads

1:11:31

to lasting gain, which might be

1:11:33

translated, I have a business

1:11:35

myself. I'm interested in financial profit

1:11:37

in addition to personal profit,

1:11:39

if you will. In terms

1:11:42

of personal profit, lasting gain

1:11:44

inside yourself, I

1:11:46

think the thing

1:11:48

that has really

1:11:50

helped me is

1:11:52

a kind of

1:11:54

humility that makes

1:11:56

me value learning. A

1:11:59

kind of sense that, wow,

1:12:01

we're vulnerable. We're frail. We

1:12:04

don't know everything. Life

1:12:06

is challenging. We

1:12:09

depend on things. And

1:12:11

that's not shame. It's humility

1:12:13

that says, I need

1:12:16

to value growing. I need

1:12:18

to look for ways

1:12:20

every day to become a

1:12:22

little unburdened from my

1:12:24

childhood and my life, to

1:12:27

become a little clearer, a

1:12:30

little more skillful with other

1:12:32

people, a little kinder,

1:12:35

you know, a little wiser, a little

1:12:37

happier. And I have the power

1:12:39

to do that every day. And it

1:12:41

really does come from me, this

1:12:43

kind of intimacy of humility in a

1:12:45

sense. that says, ah, I don't

1:12:47

know everything already. I really need to

1:12:49

help myself grow and heal and

1:12:51

learn every day. It's

1:12:53

so true. And it's like, it never

1:12:55

stops. There's always room to improve and

1:12:57

to continually better yourself and your mind

1:12:59

and the way that you operate in

1:13:01

the world. So I totally agree there.

1:13:03

Where can our listeners go find more

1:13:05

about you and everything that you do?

1:13:07

Very kind, Hala. I think my website's

1:13:09

the best place. Rick Hansen, S -O -N,

1:13:12

rickhansen .net. And it's chock

1:13:14

full of freely offered resources,

1:13:16

tons of quick little

1:13:18

video snippets, audios, practices, things

1:13:20

people can do, access

1:13:22

to all kinds of other tools

1:13:24

that are grounded in brain science

1:13:26

and contemplative wisdom and practical psychology.

1:13:28

So rickhansen .net. That's where I

1:13:31

would encourage people to go. You

1:13:33

might also like the podcast I

1:13:35

do, like you do a podcast.

1:13:37

I do a podcast with our

1:13:39

son, Forrest, the Being Well podcast,

1:13:41

which is really rising in the

1:13:43

charts, thanks to him especially. And

1:13:45

we also have lots of great guests there too.

1:13:47

So people might want to check that out as

1:13:49

well, Being Well. That's so cute that you do

1:13:52

it with your son. I love that. You

1:13:54

don't hear that every day. Thank you so much,

1:13:56

Rick. This was such an excellent conversation. Thank

1:13:58

you, Hal.