I had already heard Jonathan Birch in the 80,000 Hours podcast and was pretty impressed by the clarity of his thought and the tightness of his rhetoric. Here too he demonstrates his uncanny ability to address deep ideas with surprising approachability. The conversation ranges from high-level definitions of sentience, to the research protocols used to inform scientific positions on the matter, all the way to the practical aspects of translating these notions into actual law that addresses real-life situations. I highly recommend this episode!

This episode applies to all parent-child relationships, not just problematic ones. It has several interesting insights that can help adults relate to their parents, but also lay the groundwork for a healthy and fulfilling relationship with their own kids. Lots of food for thought!

Ezra was right that some of the things the guest says in this episode, or the way he says them, are irksome. However, I found myself pausing and rewinding several times to ensure I wasn't conflating the messenger with the message, or reacting to surprising claims with knee-jerk reactions, or interpreting words too literally, or even mixing up aspirations with practical strategy. I found this exercise to be illuminating. Overall, it was a refreshing experience to listen to a conversation between two thoughtful and articulate people espousing two *actually* different sides of a complex issue, whereas in many other similar conversations the interlocutor from the "other" side is way too abstract or distant from the core claims being (literally and figuratively) fought over on the ground. Real food for thought!