0:16

Matt: All right. Welcome everybody to another episode of sales pipeline radio.

0:20

I'm your host, Matt Heinz. So excited to have you here as we are well into the second half of January, 2025,

0:27

can't believe it's going by so quickly.

0:29

Hope many of you out there are staying warm and off to a

0:33

great start for the new year. If you're watching this episode live on LinkedIn or YouTube, we're really

0:38

excited to have you here today. You can be part of the show.

0:40

If you want to join us and make a comment, you can have a comment, a question,

0:44

a rebuttal, a rant, it all counts.

0:47

If you've got something to share, please do so in the comments.

0:50

We will see those. We can reference those. We can bring those up on screen as well.

0:54

Make you part of the show. So thank you very much for being part of this.

0:56

If you're listening or watching on demand, very excited to have you here.

1:01

Thank you so much for downloading and listening to the show.

1:04

Every episode of Sales Pipeline Radio can always be found past, present,

1:07

and future on salesPipelineRadio.com.

1:10

Very excited to have with us today our guest, the Founder and CMO

1:14

of Bold GTM, Anastasia Pavlova.

1:16

Anastasia, thanks so much for joining us. Anastasia: Thank you.

1:19

It's been a quite a pleasure, Matt.

1:22

I'm a big fan. I've known you for over a decade now and a big part of the CMO Community.

1:29

So really looking forward to this conversation.

1:32

Matt: I appreciate you being here. There's so many things we could talk about going way back to even

1:37

marketing automation, Marketo days, there's so many things we can do.

1:40

We try to keep these 15, 20 minutes. A couple of things I really want to focus on.

1:43

And one of those is B2C lessons for B2B.

1:47

I think there's so many things we just kind of take for granted as the

1:50

precedence of how we do B2B marketing.

1:52

You've got quite a background in the consumer space.

1:56

And we'd love to have you unpack a little bit of some of the lessons

1:59

that you still carry today around how B2C marketing success has

2:04

impacted you on the B2B side as well.

2:07

Anastasia: Yeah, thanks for this question. So I did start my career almost 20 years ago in B2C Tech and it was before

2:15

marketing automation and those lessons are very relevant today because it sort

2:20

of takes us back to the fundamentals.

2:22

It's putting customers first at the center is really understanding their

2:27

needs and pain points and focusing on retaining those customers first

2:32

and driving the the customer value.

2:34

And you can only do that if you understand the customer needs and really then use

2:39

creative marketing tactics to engage them.

2:42

So I think those are some of the most important lessons.

2:46

Matt: As much as we struggle so much in B2B with data and with reporting

2:50

and attribution, it often feels like our consumer marketing counterparts

2:56

are just so much further ahead than we are in terms of leveraging data

3:00

to create insights and next steps. What are some lessons from the consumer world you think can be

3:05

translated, especially around data, around insights, around analytics that

3:09

can make us better as B2B marketers? Anastasia: Well, one important consideration is segmentation.

3:14

It's really diving deeper into demographics, firmographics, behavior,

3:21

and creating cohorts of customers to solve real problems, right?

3:27

So many customers, whether it's B2B or B2C, they struggle with churn.

3:32

It's kind of a common phenomenon, but churn is a symptom of bigger

3:36

issues and problems, and it could be poor onboarding or lack of usage.

3:42

So, that's where marketers can really understand the usage data and apply very

3:48

targeted campaigns to drive usage back up.

3:53

Matt: Let's tug that thread a little further, because oftentimes

3:55

in B2B, we talk a lot about acquisition, net new pipeline.

4:00

I feel like there's a far greater focus heading into 2025 on customer

4:05

retention, customer expansion.

4:08

I facetiously sometimes say I see more marketers now focusing on

4:12

a number, not a newsletter when it comes to customer marketing.

4:16

What are some things you're seeing in your work with companies that

4:19

it's working or that are trends for focus areas for B2B marketers around

4:23

driving retention and expansion? Anastasia: Well, I think retention is the new acquisition.

4:28

So particularly these days where the costs of acquiring new

4:32

customers are skyrocketing, right? So inevitably customers again, need to think about the entire customer journey

4:41

and apply very data driven creative ways to engage customers, right?

4:48

We know that acquiring a customer costs 60-70% more than retaining existing ones.

4:53

And so what can we do in terms of retention?

4:55

So, again, understanding that the churn is a symptom.

4:58

Focus on onboarding stages first.

5:01

So how can we provide all the tools that we need for the customers to

5:04

be successful in the first, 30, 90 days and reduce this time to value.

5:10

Then if we're seeing that customers are not using our product, that's

5:14

a huge warning sign that they are going to churn in the near future.

5:19

So marketers need to get creative in how they engage the customers.

5:25

And very often it's really providing tools and tips and contextual help within the

5:30

product or emphasizing the successful customers that are doing it well.

5:35

And you can use a variety of channels for that.

5:37

And it doesn't have to be paid channels. Matt: I think the advantage you have when you're working with existing

5:42

customers is you don't have to go find them or search for them.

5:45

Like you should have a regular relationship with them.

5:47

You should have the opportunity to engage pretty quickly.

5:50

Despite that, I think sometimes we get too creative in terms of the questions we ask.

5:55

We talk a lot about net promoter score and are you satisfied?

5:59

Are you happy? I don't know if you were on the CMO Coffee Talk session last Friday, but

6:04

Latane who was the CMO for a long time. She's been the Chief Revenue Officer [at 6sense] for the past

6:08

year and what they've done is they've just gone back to customers

6:11

and asked a very simple question. Are you going to renew?

6:14

Is this a yes or no? And there's no wrong answer, right?

6:17

Yes is great, but knowing that the answer is no is also helpful.

6:21

Okay, why? what's not working? Can we work on that?

6:23

Can we fix that? And if it's not fixable, at least you know in advance where you might have some churn

6:29

risk or churn guarantee in some cases.

6:32

There's some value in having that clarity, right? I think that value on both sides to say, where are we at and how do

6:36

we make this relationship better? Anastasia: Yeah, I know.

6:39

And when I was at OneLogin, we spend a lot of time on really monitoring

6:43

the early warning signals for renewals and we had various tracks

6:49

with executives on how to anticipate potential risks with with customers.

6:54

But I think asking these questions up front is is really a shortcut

6:59

to to get into the answers quickly. I mean, companies need to really have ongoing conversation

7:05

with with their customers.

7:07

And that's what customer success teams need to be doing.

7:10

We know that those teams are very lean right now as many teams are

7:15

and the idea is that marketing needs to work very closely with

7:20

customer success teams, right? Back at OneLogIn I had my customer marketing team split into two focus areas.

7:27

Part of that was really focused on retention and alignment with CS.

7:32

And they were measured on the same goals as CS team was.

7:36

And the other half was really focused on sales and driving account based marketing

7:41

strategy and expansion strategy, which included target customer accounts.

7:46

And so customer success is now being kind of labeled as a problem child,

7:51

but I think there is a huge opportunity to rebrand them as a revenue driver.

7:56

And again, that's where they can partner with marketing and marketing can provide

7:59

programmatic support with the help of AI.

8:02

Whereas the customer success team can focus on really providing white glove

8:06

service to tier one and tier two accounts.

8:10

Matt: Talking today on Sales Pipeline Radio with Anastasia Pavlova.

8:13

She's the Founder and Fractional CMO at Bold GTM.

8:17

And it's been fun to watch your evolution and career, Anastasia, as

8:21

well, from the time we worked together in Marketo to leadership roles you

8:25

played at OneLogin and elsewhere. And now as a fractional CMO for growth companies, I know you're doing a lot

8:30

of work with managed IT, a lot of work with cybersecurity companies.

8:33

How are they leaning into the AI opportunity?

8:36

I feel like we are in a post experimentation-- well, that's not true.

8:40

We're still doing a lot of experimentation as AI evolves, but

8:44

I almost said post experimentation. Cause this is not tinker time anymore.

8:48

There are full rollouts of go to market motions that are dramatically

8:52

increasing agility, speed to market, predictivity for organizations.

8:56

What are one or two examples that you're seeing work with your clients

8:59

and in the field of where AI is having a real difference for marketers?

9:03

Anastasia: Yeah, I'll give you a couple of examples. One is from a client that I worked with their IT services company and

9:11

cyber security and IT services.

9:13

And with AI enablement of the go to market team, we were able to launch

9:19

campaigns in a fraction of the time. So it was really a matter of weeks as opposed to months.

9:24

And so I helped them shift their entire strategy from lead gen focus

9:29

to target account based go to market.

9:32

And they had real focus in three verticals.

9:35

And so we methodically attacked one vertical at a time and AI

9:40

played a huge role in this. So it was everything from doing research on ideal customer profile on personas,

9:48

both technical and non technical really outlining the pain points and mapping

9:53

value proposition to that, doing interviews with the subject matter

9:57

experts within the company, and then taking those insights and translating

10:01

them into longer form content. And then doing testing across all the subject lines for

10:07

ad campaigns and creative. And so what that enabled us to do, this whole process really enabled us

10:13

to launch email nurture campaigns, and BDR sequences, ads on LinkedIn

10:19

and Google targeted content hubs.

10:22

In a matter of weeks for the first vertical, and then

10:25

we went on to the next one. So from financial services to bio pharma and professional services, a matter of

10:31

weeks, and we overachieved on on pipeline goals in a matter of four to five months.

10:37

So that is a very specific example where AI has worked really well

10:42

for efficiencies and effectiveness.

10:45

But it's also interesting to see companies that are smaller that are building

10:49

AI first or AI native tech stacks and reimagining the entire processes with

10:58

AI, and that's where I really get excited because it's so much more difficult for

11:03

more established companies and bigger companies to turn the ship and they're

11:08

reliant a lot on AI tools that are available in the platforms that they use.

11:13

So whether it's Einstein, in Salesforce or any other AI capabilities in marketing

11:20

automation or other tools that they use.

11:22

They're kind of at their mercy. Matt: So isn't that just always the case, right?

11:26

you know, It's far harder to pivot than it is to start with some blue

11:30

ocean and start with a clean slate. I think about back in the days when we started to move towards a

11:35

tighter and broader digital play in marketing when the internet really

11:39

became critical mass a long time ago.

11:42

A lot of companies struggled with making that pivot from analog marketing 30 second

11:47

TV ads to doing digital advertising.

11:50

It sounds old school, but that was a thing that pivot and that

11:53

resistance, that pivot was a thing. Certainly saw that I mean, marketing automation, right?

11:56

I mean, back in the Marketo days, you saw a lot of companies that if they were

11:59

just getting going, building a marketing automation platform as the hub of their

12:03

programs, it was kind of a no duh moment, but moving companies from batches and

12:08

to a more nuanced program-- different.

12:11

And we can sit here in 2025 and say, well, if all you're doing is batching

12:15

people into programs and doing some arbitrary lead scoring and not paying

12:19

attention to intent signals for buying committees and buying journeys the way we

12:22

know to do today, we continue to evolve.

12:25

Right? And I think the jobs continue to change, but smart people evolve with it.

12:30

Talk a little bit about in your career and especially in your work today as a

12:34

fractional CMO, the importance of change management and culture management as

12:39

we continue to reinvent what selling and marketing is and how it's done.

12:43

Anastasia: Oh, it's absolutely critical. You can't really accomplish much without it.

12:47

So bring the entire C suite and leadership team on board is the

12:52

first step in getting to progress.

12:54

And sometimes the leadership teams, they're so stuck in their old ways that

12:59

it's really challenging to open their eyes, but by bringing examples from what's

13:04

working outside the companies and doing baby steps and pilot programs, what I

13:09

think makes it makes a big difference.

13:12

I'm still surprised how many companies tinker with AI in some pockets of the

13:16

organization without having an AI czar or a committee or cross functional team

13:21

that really tries to get together and bring best practices to the rest of

13:27

the organization and at least surface some of the successes and use cases.

13:32

And that's what I try to evangelize with all my clients.

13:35

And there's plenty of resources on how to do it in companies that are doing it well.

13:40

And I think that that's kind of the first step.

13:42

So recognizing that AI is an enabler, it's not going to take your job, but people

13:47

who are using AI will take your job.

13:50

So it's important to have the leadership team endorse that and

13:55

empower the people who are raising their hands to be the drivers of

13:59

change within the organizations, right?

14:02

And I think for the go to market teams, it's where the biggest opportunities lie.

14:07

So with marketing, customer success, sales teams, BDR teams, they can be

14:12

the pioneers and the beneficiaries of AI strategies and practice.

14:18

Matt: Isn't it fascinating to watch the adoption curve of all kinds of

14:22

innovations and technologies, right? It always feels like whatever we're facing right now is new and could

14:26

be different and could break the mold and break what we're used to.

14:29

I'm a huge baseball fan and it's fascinating to me that when radio

14:34

became a thing a hundred years ago, baseball owners didn't want their

14:37

games on the radio because they wanted people to come to the game.

14:40

And then all of a sudden everyone listened to the radio, oh, wow, they listened to

14:43

the radio, they want to come to the game more often and we're getting more revenue.

14:45

So yeah, put it on the radio. And then TV came along and said, no, no, no, we don't want our games on TV

14:50

because they'll stop coming to the game. And so it's that old thinking that it worked and it's not old.

14:56

It's just it's proven in a different mode when other technology innovations didn't

15:00

exist, that innovation curve and helping, allowing ourselves to think differently

15:05

about things way easier said than done. And I feel like we're there with AI as well.

15:08

A lot of fear, a lot of uncertainty, a lot of wanting to hold on to what we know.

15:12

Which is, you know, the cat's out of the barn, right?

15:15

Like we can't unknow what we now already know about what AI is capable

15:19

of doing, let alone what's going to be announced this afternoon, tomorrow,

15:22

next week, it's moving so fast. Anastasia: It's moving at a light breaking speed and it's certainly

15:29

exciting to participate in this wave.

15:31

You and I have been around the block for a few years, so it's

15:34

not the first wave for us. And so adapting and adopting this new technology is really key.

15:40

It will be fascinating to see what impact AI is going to continue having

15:46

on SaaS which is where you and I have a lot of business in and so AI is going

15:51

to be basically creating software for us and that's fascinating to watch.

15:56

I am an advisor and mentor at UC Berkeley here, Startup Accelerator

16:05

and we just released a new cohort of entrepreneurs and with their startup

16:11

ventures that got funded and most of them are focused on AI applications.

16:17

It's here and it's here to stay. And so we need to embrace it and drive the change forward.

16:23

I'm really excited about using all the tools and helping companies

16:27

drive efficiencies and, effectiveness in their go to market strategies.

16:32

Matt: We're not old Anastasia. We're experienced and wise.

16:34

That's the pivot. That's the angle I choose... over the years we've seen people that are digital natives that are mobile natives

16:40

that are just used to this, that didn't have to pivot and we're well into what

16:44

I would consider the AI natives, right? Like the kids that you have in The Accelerator in Berkeley where they've

16:50

been playing with from the beginning. It is part of the initial set of tools.

16:54

And it's going to be exciting to see what they come up with.

16:56

What they innovate. It's not all going to work. It's not all going to be successful.

16:59

It's not all going to launch, but this is how we learn.

17:01

I'm excited for you being at the front end of that, being able to see that

17:05

firsthand, it's going to be pretty cool. Anastasia this has been awesome.

17:08

I know we've covered very quickly, a lot of ground here.

17:10

If people want to learn more from you and more about you, where should they go?

17:14

Anastasia: Well, I'm definitely on LinkedIn or send me an

17:17

email at info@boldgrm.com.

17:20

Matt: Awesome. Awesome. Anastasia. Thanks so much for being here with us today.

17:23

Thank you everyone for listening and watching another episode of

17:26

Sales Pipeline Radio in the books. Look forward to seeing you all next week for more of the same.

17:31

My name is Matt Heinz. Thanks again for joining us on Sales Pipeline Radio today.

17:34

We'll see you next time. Take care.