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meal kit. both. Welcome along

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to Sound Tracking with me, Edith Bowman.

1:33

Lovely to have you with us. Thank

1:35

you very much for your time and

1:38

your ears. Really appreciate it. Just before

1:40

I jump into this week's second episode,

1:42

I hope you enjoyed our Sean

1:44

Baker just celebrating Anora's amazing one

1:46

at the Oscars. If you haven't

1:48

listened to that yet, dive in.

1:50

It's a short and sweet and

1:52

lovely chat. and he's just adorable and

1:55

inspired and I can't wait to have

1:57

him back on to talk about Florida

1:59

the project. yeah tangerine

2:01

and always other brilliant

2:03

brilliant films. Now listen because

2:05

of us dropping extra episodes

2:07

our 500th episode is kind of

2:10

approaching us very very quickly in fact

2:12

it's going to be here in about

2:14

four or five weeks if we keep

2:17

going at the rate that we are

2:19

so we are reaching out to you

2:21

our listeners for a kind of last

2:24

gasp to get your contribution in basically

2:26

we wanted to try within our 500th

2:28

episode. to celebrate with you, the people

2:31

who make it possible, really, for us

2:33

to continue making this podcast. So,

2:35

all we ask is that you email

2:37

us, either an email, and I can read

2:40

it out for you, or you can record

2:42

a little voice note, or you can record

2:44

a little video, and it could

2:46

be your favorite soundtrack. The moment

2:48

that you fell in love with

2:50

a guest that we've had on

2:52

the show, your favorite guest, your

2:54

favorite guest, your favorite episode... Whatever

2:57

it is, we would love so much

2:59

to include you in that 500th episode.

3:01

So to do that, you can email

3:04

me info at edithbowman.com or you

3:06

could just drop it across to

3:08

me on D.M.s on our socials.

3:10

We were at soundtrack in UK.

3:12

So off you go. Well, not

3:14

right now, maybe after this episode

3:16

because our latest guest... On soundtrack

3:18

in is composer Bear McCready who

3:20

joins us to discuss his career

3:22

ahead of his themes and variations

3:25

tour which kicks off at Indigo

3:27

O2 on April the 18th that's

3:29

in London by the way for

3:31

those of you in other parts

3:33

of the world and then he's

3:35

heading off to Europe and the

3:37

US. Now Bayer is... Oh, just

3:40

great company. Also compiled an extraordinary

3:42

body of work across film, TV,

3:44

video games, including Battlestar Galactica, Outlander,

3:46

God of War, so much stuff,

3:49

and he has a joy to

3:51

talk to, as I said. So

3:53

let's get straight into it with

3:55

his iconic theme from none other

3:58

than the Walking Dead. Hi

4:31

Bear! Hey Edith, how's it going? Oh great, thanks so much, how are you?

4:33

I'm doing very well. What time is it for you? It's 5.30, I've just

4:35

fed the kids and yeah, so they're all fed and watered water,

4:37

which is great. What about you? Where are you? It's 9.30, so I

4:39

just fed the kids, breakfast, you know? Oh man, well thank you for

4:41

getting up early for us, thank you, starting your day with us, I

4:44

appreciate your day with us, I appreciate it, I appreciate your day with

4:46

us, I appreciate your day with us, I appreciate your day with

4:48

us, I appreciate your day with us, I appreciate it,

4:50

I appreciate, I appreciate, I appreciate, I appreciate, I appreciate,

4:52

I appreciate, I appreciate, I appreciate, I appreciate, I appreciate,

4:54

I appreciate, I appreciate, I appreciate, I appreciate, I appreciate,

4:56

I appreciate so much, I, I appreciate so much, I,

4:58

I, I, I, I, I, who's 16, who absolutely

5:00

devoured God of War. And I

5:02

told him I was chatting to,

5:05

and he's like, oh, tell him. I

5:07

thought it was, the music was

5:09

genuinely, I've read it

5:11

down here, incredible. It

5:13

was immaculate and so

5:15

captivating. Wow, those are great

5:17

adjectives. I will take them.

5:19

Thank you. Please pass along

5:22

my compliments. Oh, well, yeah, thank

5:24

you. Mutual appreciation, I love it.

5:26

Listen, it would be. impossible of

5:28

me to think that I could

5:31

in any way scratch the surface

5:33

of your career in kind of

5:35

one sitting as you as you

5:37

celebrate such an incredible collection of

5:39

work that you're kind of finally

5:42

taken on the road though. This

5:44

is exciting. I'm really excited about

5:46

it and it feels like the

5:49

right time and it's the right time

5:51

I think for fans but it's the

5:53

right time for me. I have spent

5:56

the better part of the last

5:58

20 years in a room. like

6:00

this one 12 to 15 hours a day

6:02

and it's time to get out there and

6:04

and really some of my best memories

6:06

of the last 20 years have been

6:08

performing performing Battlestar

6:11

Galactica doing concert tours in

6:13

the late 2000s and then

6:15

playing God of War live when it

6:17

was announced in 2016 playing the song

6:19

God of War Ragnarok with hosier

6:21

on stage in 2022. I mean these

6:24

are highlights for me and I and

6:26

I finally realized that it was silly

6:28

of me to wait. for those

6:30

opportunities to materialize I

6:32

should just make them. What's the process

6:34

been for you in terms of working

6:37

at the set list? Very fun. I

6:39

put out a I put out a

6:41

rock record last year which was sort

6:43

of designed to be a very

6:45

fun live experience every song on

6:48

the record is a fun one to

6:50

hear live. So I sort of started

6:52

there and then I even did

6:54

that whole record live top to

6:56

bottom last year in Los Angeles

6:59

and for the tour, you know,

7:01

it's not the singularity tour, it's

7:03

the themes and variations tour. Yeah.

7:05

And I started bringing in pieces

7:08

that I thought would fit well in a

7:10

rock context, which is a

7:12

lot, surprisingly. It's a lot. The

7:14

set list is is currently massive.

7:16

We'll see if I even can

7:18

trim it, you know, but I'm

7:20

having so many of my favorite

7:22

pieces just translate so beautifully and

7:25

I'm bringing some of the musicians

7:27

with me that have played. on these

7:29

scores, you know, in the case of a

7:31

couple of them for 20 years. Wow.

7:33

So people get to hear, you know, the

7:35

theme from Walking Dead with

7:37

my violent player playing it, you

7:40

know, Paul Cartwright, and he played

7:42

on Battle Star Galactica, and my

7:44

brother is the one who sang

7:47

all along the Watchtower in Battle

7:49

Star Galactica. He's with me, you

7:51

know, so it's really exciting. And

7:54

I think people are going to

7:56

be, I think the set's going

7:58

to be pretty fun. said

8:02

the joke to

8:04

the thief. There's

8:07

too much confusion.

8:09

I can't you

8:11

know to leave.

8:13

Businessmen, they drink

8:15

my wine. I'm

8:17

ending my... So

8:29

right, people who is 16th of 18th

8:32

of 18th of April in London anyway,

8:34

that people can see you. And I

8:36

guess it's that thing of kind of,

8:38

I remember kind of taking my kids

8:40

to see one of the Star Wars

8:42

at Royal Abbott Hall, you know,

8:44

with a live playback. And it

8:46

was so lovely because apart from

8:48

the experience being something that was

8:50

such a life memory for us, it

8:52

really allowed my kids to appreciate

8:54

how much music. there was as part

8:57

of the storytelling you know in those

8:59

films that they take for granted you

9:01

were kind of like I remember my

9:03

little one turning around to me and

9:05

going I didn't realize there was so

9:07

much music the players are playing non-stop

9:09

and it was such a nice way

9:11

for them to appreciate how important that

9:13

part is to our experiences film and

9:15

TV fans to that kind of story

9:17

telling process so that must be just

9:19

wonderful for you to experience live It's pretty

9:21

great. And I do find that in a

9:24

live context, all this music hits differently.

9:26

You know, one of the things I'm

9:28

doing differently than the experience

9:30

you're describing is, you know, we're not

9:32

showing picture. Part of this is like I

9:35

want to break that experience out because

9:37

one of the things that's funny about

9:39

music is that it forms this nostalgic

9:41

connection. When I hear the theme to

9:43

God of War, I not only think of Kratos,

9:45

I think of all that I went

9:48

through to write it, experience who I

9:50

was, who I come. I'm very nostalgic,

9:52

but I actually think everyone that knows

9:54

that music has something similar.

9:56

They remember their lives when that game

9:58

came out or when they played it. or somebody

10:00

they played it with, or something

10:02

that happened that was happening in

10:04

their lives when that music was a

10:07

big part of it. So the idea

10:09

of hearing it live, it's a celebration

10:11

of both God of War, but also

10:13

just personal memory. Our collective

10:15

experience with this music. I am

10:18

excited because I love sharing that

10:20

with fans. People will say to me,

10:22

people often, I think, feel compelled to

10:24

tell me about these experiences outside of

10:26

the show. Yes, people will say, oh,

10:29

I really liked. your music in

10:31

Battle Star Galactica. But more

10:33

often I hear people say, I got

10:35

married to your music from

10:37

Battle Star Galactica. I played

10:39

this music at my grandmother's

10:41

funeral. You know, like, these

10:43

were major life events that

10:45

your music, you know, and you realize,

10:48

like, wow, that's not what I

10:50

intended that music for. Okay, like,

10:52

I learned that early on in

10:54

Battle Star. there was a military

10:56

funeral in Battle Star Galactka in

10:59

episode 104 and the next year

11:01

I got an email from a service

11:03

member in Iraq and he buried one

11:05

of their friends in a

11:07

military funeral with the military

11:09

funeral music that I wrote

11:11

for Battle Star Galactica and

11:13

it it upset me and shocked me

11:15

because I thought well wait a minute

11:18

wait a minute this isn't supposed to

11:20

be real life like I'm not writing

11:22

a real person's funeral, am I? When

11:24

I do this scene, I'm doing this

11:26

fiction. But then I ultimately embraced that

11:29

once I write this music for this

11:31

scene, I am giving it away. I am

11:33

giving it to you. Not yours anymore. It's

11:35

not mine anymore. And I really was

11:37

honored that that happened and that that

11:39

person wrote to me. And I think in

11:41

a way like, it's like in the spirit of

11:44

like, let's all celebrate what we love

11:46

about this music together with. the musicians

11:48

that played it and I want to

11:51

experience that with with with everybody in

11:53

real time you know Do

12:46

you mind if we kind of go back

12:49

and talk a little bit about what it

12:51

was that kind of got you into this

12:53

world? You know, in terms of musical

12:56

storytelling in a way, and you know,

12:58

was it something that you'd always wanted

13:00

to do as a kid? And kind

13:02

of what was the catalyst to you

13:05

taking that step into that world, I

13:07

guess? I'm going to define as a kid

13:09

because I was five when I noticed

13:11

film music and I was six

13:13

when I was critical about it. I

13:15

was six. My mom took me to see

13:17

Back to the Future. And I loved the

13:20

music so much that I grabbed my Fisher

13:22

Price cassette recorder and I

13:24

made her take me back and I held it

13:26

in the air and I recorded the music.

13:28

And then I went home and I

13:30

was fast forwarding and rewining listening

13:33

to the music and I was

13:35

so annoyed that there was dialogue

13:37

and sound effects and people laughing.

13:40

Well, around this time I discovered

13:42

a thing called a soundtrack album.

13:44

where they would get rid of all the

13:46

sound effects and dialogue and I could hear this

13:48

music. I was obsessed immediately. So

13:50

that's six years old, right? I

13:53

mean like that's when I started

13:55

understanding there's music in these things and

13:57

I want to understand what it's doing.

13:59

I was all... already taking piano lessons

14:01

I was starting to like figure

14:03

out how to play themes by

14:05

the time I was 12 I

14:07

started writing music all day every

14:09

day and it was in the

14:11

styles of film and that went

14:13

all the way today but in

14:15

high school in particular it's like

14:17

I would push myself I would

14:19

write I was big into sci-fi

14:21

fantasy horror so I'm writing that

14:24

kind of stuff and I got

14:26

into Westerns I'm gonna write a

14:28

Western theme then I saw like

14:30

you know there are all these

14:32

great sort of high concept thrillers

14:34

that would come out in the

14:36

mid and late 90s. I'm going

14:38

to write that. I just want

14:40

to write everything I can imagine,

14:42

everything I can think of. So

14:44

I was wired that way and

14:46

at that same age around 16

14:48

I met Elmer Bernstein who, wow,

14:50

my mentor and I was his

14:52

last protégé or one of his

14:54

last protégé and worked with him

14:57

for the better part of a

14:59

decade, the last decade of his

15:01

life. And I met him... because

15:03

of my passion for film music.

15:05

Yes. Mutual friend was like, hey,

15:07

this kid seems pretty into this,

15:09

you know, and there was a

15:11

total coincidence, total coincidence, you know,

15:13

I grew up a city a

15:15

hundred miles away from Seattle, okay?

15:17

So it's like, I'm not anywhere

15:19

near the industry. But you put

15:21

those two things together, a kid

15:23

that's wired that way, who decides

15:25

to put in that work, who

15:27

then has a chance to meet

15:30

one of his heroes. Then I

15:32

moved to LA and my grades

15:34

were good enough that I got

15:36

into USC and I got the

15:38

half ride scholarship that was necessary

15:40

for my lower middle class mom

15:42

to send me to that school.

15:44

Yeah. Then I'm in LA at

15:46

a film school. I'm in the

15:48

music school, but I'm in the

15:50

music school, but there's a great

15:52

film school at USC. I started

15:54

doing student films. I'm conducting little

15:56

orchestras and then they become medium

15:58

orchestras, then become bigger orchestras, and

16:00

I'm recording stuff. So you put

16:02

all that together together. That gives

16:05

me a chance to do one

16:07

episode of Battle Star Galactica. I'm

16:09

23 years old. It is irresponsible

16:11

of them to let it... child

16:13

score this show. They should not

16:15

do it. But this child by

16:17

23, I've been doing it nonstop

16:19

for a decade. I put in

16:21

my 10,000 hours several times. I

16:23

had built a team to do

16:25

student films. I had an engineer

16:27

to record. I had people, I

16:29

knew how to orchestrate, I knew

16:31

players. I cobbled together something and

16:33

it was like everything aligned. And

16:35

that was really, you know. how

16:38

I went from being a kid

16:40

listening to Back to the Future

16:42

at 5 to scoring Battle Star

16:44

Galactica at 23. That's amazing that

16:46

you know the talents there clearly

16:48

in terms of what you're able

16:50

to do and you sort of

16:52

go what they given a kid

16:54

this but it's like look at

16:56

what you've done since then as

16:58

well. What's lovely is that idea

17:00

of passing the baton in a

17:02

way in the way that Elmer

17:04

and there's so many composers that

17:06

do it where it's it's such

17:08

a kind of inclusive kind of

17:10

inclusive and encouraging environment, you know,

17:13

where it's kind of like, you

17:15

know, I want the like-minded people,

17:17

the next generation of like-minded people

17:19

around me who I can help

17:21

and support and encourage. And is

17:23

there something that you kind of,

17:25

I don't know, not to kind

17:27

of classify anything, but kind of

17:29

when you think back to that,

17:31

that time and and having that

17:33

opportunity to... you know to work

17:35

with someone so iconic in your

17:37

field sort of thing of of

17:39

what you took away from that

17:41

some of the most kind of

17:43

memorable or important lessons or things

17:46

that you learn. I mean I

17:48

learned so much it's overwhelming yeah

17:50

but I do think there is

17:52

one thing I learned that stands

17:54

above the rest I met Elmer

17:56

when I was 16 I didn't

17:58

know any film composers I'm gonna

18:00

date myself here but like the

18:02

internet is very young okay so

18:04

I know I don't know I

18:06

don't know anything about anybody I

18:08

could walk past John Williams in

18:10

the grocery store I wouldn't recognize

18:12

his face okay I do know

18:14

that Kurt Cobain just died. I

18:16

do know that Jimmy Hendricks died.

18:19

I do know that George Gershwin

18:21

and Ravelle both died young. I

18:23

do know that like Beethoven went

18:25

deaf. Like there's this thing where

18:27

it's like, do you have to

18:29

suffer to make music to be

18:31

an artist? It's easy to laugh,

18:33

but when you're 16, you don't

18:35

know this, you don't. So I

18:37

met Elmer Bernstein at the height

18:39

of his career. He's a sweet,

18:41

thoughtful, funny man with an adoring

18:43

family. People respect him and he

18:45

respects himself. I mean, I met

18:47

him at a time when he

18:49

got fired more than any mainstream

18:51

composer. Famously, fired left and right

18:54

because he's like, this is what

18:56

I'm going to do and it's

18:58

what I'm going to do. All

19:00

right, like, and if you don't

19:02

want to do it, it's fine,

19:04

but I'm not going to do

19:06

something different. But I respected that.

19:08

What that meant was he's not

19:10

desperate. He's not like, oh, let

19:12

me learn a new trick so

19:14

that you don't fire me. He

19:16

didn't care. He's like, look, I'm

19:18

Elmer Bernstein, right? comfortable. He's happy.

19:20

He's happy. And I was like,

19:22

there. There it is. That's what

19:24

I want, not the Oscar, not

19:27

the accolades. I want to be

19:29

that age and be happy and

19:31

have a family that loves me.

19:33

and have people in the industry

19:35

that respect me, even if they

19:37

fire me, they respect me, right?

19:39

So there was so much value

19:41

there for a 16-year-old. You know,

19:43

Elmer, you know, he was always

19:45

looking forward. He was always looking

19:47

forward, helping young people. What he

19:49

did with me was not exceptional.

19:51

He helped a lot of young

19:53

people. And I've tried very much

19:55

to do the same at my

19:57

company, Sparks and Shadows. I don't

20:00

know that I'll ever be able

20:02

to repay the universe for for...

20:04

putting me in Elmer Bernstein's path,

20:06

but I'm trying. Every little helps,

20:08

bare, every little helps, it really,

20:10

really does. When it comes to,

20:12

I mean, I was, today I

20:14

was driving through the English countryside,

20:16

I'm Scottish, you probably heard, maybe

20:18

you didn't, but I put on

20:20

some of your Outlander score, just

20:22

because I love how celebrated a

20:24

you are of the culture within

20:26

the music, you know, both in

20:28

terms of instrumentation, songs even that

20:30

you've reworked and used, you know.

20:32

it was beautiful to just drive

20:35

around and listening to. I just

20:37

put, you know, there's so much

20:39

music there, so I just put

20:41

it on kind of shuffle so

20:43

that like what you're going back

20:45

to seeing like without pictures of

20:47

it being just, you know, of

20:49

it being about the moment and

20:51

about the piece of music and

20:53

where it takes you and what

20:55

your imagination does with it and

20:57

stuff. That is a beast of

20:59

a collection of music that you've

21:01

worked on that show, which has

21:03

the most attentive, huge fan-baser all

21:05

over the world. Yeah, what's funny

21:08

about that is that I grew

21:10

up going to the Highland Games

21:12

up in Bellingham, Washington. So I

21:14

went to the Highland Games every

21:16

summer. No way. It was, my

21:18

favorite thing would be... you know,

21:20

there would be like 30 or

21:22

40 bands, bagpipe bands, meaning there's

21:24

hundreds of people on this huge

21:26

farmland, and they would be doing

21:28

competition. So you'd hear that be

21:30

flat for like eight straight hours,

21:32

right? And then I would get

21:34

home and I'd go to bed,

21:36

and it's like, I can still

21:38

hear it, you know, and the

21:40

food and the caber toss and

21:43

the music and the, you know,

21:45

the dancing, like I loved it.

21:47

And I'm, you know, part Scottish

21:49

myself. I am, I am Scottish

21:51

and Armenian. Two fantastic musical heritage

21:53

is there. And my friend Ronald

21:55

D. Moore, who show ran and

21:57

created Battle Star Galactica, you know,

21:59

I read he got the rights

22:01

to Outlander and we were, we

22:03

were talking about something else. We

22:05

were emailing about something completely unrelated.

22:07

And I think I wrote and

22:09

I go, oh, by the way,

22:11

like, I hear you doing Outlander,

22:13

like, you know, just for fun,

22:16

like, here's some recordings I did

22:18

of my favorite Jacobite songs. It's

22:20

like, it's like a, it's like

22:22

a little hobby of mine. Because

22:24

it's so fun how the, the,

22:26

the lyrics in these songs, you

22:28

know, had all these hidden meanings.

22:30

I just, I think it's fun

22:32

stuff. And I sent him, you

22:34

know, you know, three or four

22:36

or four or four or four

22:38

MP3 or four MP3s. And he's.

22:40

Wait, you know what a Jacobite

22:42

is? He goes, I've been spending

22:44

the last two years pitching this

22:46

show, having to explain this to

22:49

everybody. You're the first person in

22:51

LA I've encountered who knows what

22:53

this is. And then he goes,

22:55

oh, I listen to those MP3s,

22:57

that's great. I really like that

22:59

Sky Boat song. I think that's

23:01

our main title. And I was

23:03

like, our main... I guess I'm

23:05

scoring Outlander now. Did you ever

23:07

imagine though that it would become

23:09

the thing that it has? You

23:11

know, I know that we're in

23:13

the final season's been shot and

23:15

then the prequels come in, it's

23:17

kind of, you know, it's, but

23:19

it's also, it's been amazing what

23:21

it's done for the, you know,

23:24

for the industry in Scotland and

23:26

craftsmen and women and it's, it's,

23:28

it's just the gift that keeps

23:30

on giving on so many levels.

23:32

I love... I love the storytelling

23:34

in it, I love that mix

23:36

of kind of genres within it.

23:38

I love that it kind of

23:40

is this constant regeneration of new

23:42

talent that we come, that we

23:44

get to learn about, people like,

23:46

you know, Sam and Katrina are

23:48

fantastic, but people like Lauren Lyle,

23:50

who's just phenomenal, you know, and

23:52

so that side of it, but

23:54

then also heeding from production side

23:57

of it, you know, and kind

23:59

of new, you know, exciting storytellers

24:01

who are getting their foot in

24:03

the door by working on this

24:05

show because... from someone who had

24:07

to leave Scotland to find work

24:09

to know that there is this

24:11

industry that is vibrant and is

24:13

constantly kind of giving people opportunities

24:15

is so wonderful. I'm so grateful

24:17

for the show on so many

24:19

levels. So yeah, I think it's

24:21

amazing. Oh, that's fantastic. Well, to

24:23

answer your question, I didn't know,

24:25

I didn't know that when I

24:27

made demos of the Sky Boat

24:30

song for the main title. It

24:32

was an accordion doing the melody

24:34

in one version. It was a

24:36

fiddle in another version. It was

24:38

a penny whistle in another. And

24:40

then my wife who was. at

24:42

that time, I think seven months

24:44

pregnant with our first child, Raya,

24:46

I said, I don't know, why

24:48

don't we try a vocal version?

24:50

Come out in and sing it.

24:52

You know, I did not know

24:54

in that moment that we were

24:56

making a piece of music that

24:58

would resonate with people so deeply

25:00

that they would tattoo it on

25:02

their bodies, you know, that it

25:05

would... It would resonate with millions

25:07

of people millions of times. I'm

25:09

glad I didn't know because the

25:11

pressure of it would have just

25:13

been immense. It was just something

25:15

beautiful. I felt like I was

25:17

connecting with my own Scottish heritage.

25:19

I was gonna, my wife was

25:21

singing the demo, never even occurred

25:23

to me that would be the

25:25

final performance. While she's caught in

25:27

your child. Yes. My God. It's

25:29

funny because we made revisions. The

25:31

first idea Ron said, very smart

25:33

idea. We were doing the original

25:35

Robert Lewis Stevenson lyrics, sing me

25:38

a song of a lad that

25:40

is gone. And he goes, I

25:42

don't know, it feels like we're

25:44

talking about Claire here. We should

25:46

say last. And I was like,

25:48

change the, I mean, okay, your

25:50

idea, like I thought people would

25:52

be outraged, sing me a song

25:54

of a last that is gone.

25:56

That did two things. A, it

25:58

very much makes it feel like

26:00

it's about Claire, yes. And B.

26:02

When I see it tattooed on

26:04

your flesh, and it's sing me

26:06

a song of a last with

26:08

an S. I know you're an

26:11

Outlander fan. You're not a Scottish

26:13

folk music enthusiast. You're an Outlander

26:15

fan. So that was fun, but

26:17

we did the final. final takes

26:19

Raya was eight months pregnant and

26:21

she even said to me she

26:23

goes I if they want it

26:25

louder than this or bigger than

26:27

like my diaphragm I've got this

26:29

person pushing on it I cannot

26:31

sing this again and I said

26:33

Raya this is the one I'm

26:35

telling you I think this is

26:37

the one and that is the

26:39

recording that you know this 48

26:41

million spins on Spotify who's counting

26:43

wow that's incredible oh man that's

26:46

so exciting Sing me a song

26:48

of less that is gone Say

26:50

could that last be I Mary

26:52

of soul she sealed on a

26:54

day over the sea to sky

27:30

I mean it's so great

27:32

like when you think about,

27:34

you know, when you kind

27:36

of just even glance down

27:38

your, you know, the work

27:40

that you've done, you mentioned

27:42

the Walking Dead there as

27:44

well, which is just extraordinary.

27:46

Parsi Jackson as well, we

27:48

really enjoyed that, loved that.

27:50

And then, but then coming

27:52

on to something like, I

27:54

want to talk about games

27:56

in a second because I

27:58

think that the music in

28:00

games is really not celebrated

28:02

enough, you know what I

28:04

mean, I feel like it's

28:06

kind of it's kind of

28:08

such. quite a lot, you

28:10

know, in terms of hard

28:12

background in gaming and stuff.

28:14

It's just, it's so part

28:16

of the, the experience. It's

28:18

like, anyway, but Lord of

28:20

the Rings, coming in on

28:22

to something like Lord of

28:25

the Rings and the Rings

28:27

of Power, where there's a

28:29

kind of pre-existence there as

28:31

well, is that something you

28:33

have to consider? It's not

28:35

my first Highland games, not

28:37

my first Cabor toss here,

28:39

okay? That playing with an

28:41

IP that has a fan

28:43

base, that I'm in, you

28:45

know, I've done Battle Star

28:47

Galactica, Terminator, Godzilla, Childs Play,

28:49

God of War, Halo, I

28:51

mean, it's more often than

28:53

not, I'm in that situation.

28:55

In the case of the

28:57

Lord of the Rings, I

28:59

fundamentally didn't approach it any

29:01

differently than any other, which

29:03

is that I need to

29:05

tell the story at hand

29:07

with music that I would

29:09

like to hear there. I

29:11

need to trust my showrunners

29:13

and collaborators that if I'm

29:15

wrong, they'll correct me, right?

29:17

And that once we, as

29:19

we're all fans, I like

29:21

this music and they like

29:23

this music, that fans will

29:25

like this music. So fundamentally,

29:27

Lord of the Rings, the

29:29

Rings of Power was not

29:31

more intimidating than anything else.

29:33

Yeah. If anything, you know,

29:35

I had the freedom. to

29:37

sort of stand on its

29:39

own. And, I mean, I'm

29:41

sort of burying the lead

29:43

here, we have this incredible

29:46

Howard Shore theme. We've got

29:48

that box checked. Howard Shore

29:50

wrote the main theme for

29:52

the show, the main title.

29:54

He is welcoming welcoming

29:56

fans from me

29:58

from Peter

30:00

Jackson's films and

30:02

from there we're

30:04

taking them

30:06

on a new

30:08

journey. new journey. Music

30:34

Music Music

30:48

Music Music

31:07

Music Music

31:29

But it isn't something I ever

31:31

worried about because about trusted my my tastes

31:33

like I it's cool that the cool that the

31:35

some have some Celtic instrumentation because

31:37

thousands of years from now they're

31:39

going to settle in settle in the it's

31:41

going to sound like that. sound like

31:44

that. So obviously I'm not going to do

31:46

something that's totally off totally off know

31:48

at the same know at the same season

31:50

I started getting I little more

31:52

daring. a little know daring. going to a

31:54

part of the map. The map the

31:56

the in of of Rooon that have never

31:58

been depicted before. before and And so I

32:01

Bulgarian women's women's pair, featured prominently because it's

32:03

like, it's like, well, we're bring in a

32:05

new sound in a new sound. We

33:01

had never seen new

33:03

manure in the Peter Peter Jackson

33:05

film, so a lot of

33:07

Mediterranean North North Egyptian and Egyptian

33:09

Armenian instrumentation Armenian sort of

33:11

pulls the sound of of

33:13

the the sound of people expect

33:15

in new places in new places. Oh

34:24

And then, like, I just went

34:26

nuts in season two and this

34:28

troll walks out and starts brutalizing

34:30

friend and foe alike in this

34:32

big battle. And I'm watching it.

34:34

And yeah, look, I just put

34:37

out the singularity. It's a metal

34:39

record. And I just thought, I

34:41

want to hear the lead singer

34:43

from Misuga, my favorite death metal

34:45

band, during this moment. And that's

34:47

what you hear. You know, we

34:49

did a death metal song in

34:51

Lord of the Rings. But it

34:53

was right. I trust my instincts.

34:55

Yeah. Because I'm a fan. I

34:58

grew up immersed in this stuff.

35:00

And I am where I am

35:02

in terms of my tastes. And

35:04

I trust the people around me.

35:06

Like, is it weird to do

35:08

a death metal song? And like,

35:10

no, they like it. They like

35:12

it. And ultimately, the fans liked

35:14

it. I mean, the fans really

35:16

embraced it. So I ultimately have

35:18

my own taste. I will say

35:21

I am by far my harshest

35:23

critic. Like when I'm writing a

35:25

theme. If I get to the

35:27

point where I go, you know

35:29

what, I think that's pretty good.

35:31

It has gone through its pieces,

35:33

you know. So anyway, yeah, I

35:35

love that challenge, but ultimately it

35:37

is all about telling the story

35:39

at hand using the tools I

35:42

think are best. No

35:59

F- will

36:04

shine sanctions, ribs made from...

36:43

With gaming and writing music, it's like,

36:45

where do you start? Because you can't

36:47

preconceive, particularly when it's gameplay, you know

36:50

what I mean? Something, you know, where

36:52

you kind of, you can't predict people's

36:54

movements. There's a challenge, there's quest, you

36:56

know what I mean, in some of

36:58

it, but in terms of how then

37:00

you write music based around that, it

37:03

feels like it's almost like a magician.

37:05

You know, that idea that there is

37:07

music there available for every scenario that

37:09

could possibly come up. It's mental. My

37:11

brain kind of explodes just thinking about

37:13

it. So Christ knows how you actually

37:15

write it, come up with the ideas,

37:18

the themes, the kind of instrumentation, and

37:20

then, yeah, make it all work. To

37:22

do that well. And I have been

37:24

fortunate to work with teams. development teams

37:26

that do it very well, the best

37:28

in the industry. It takes a large

37:30

team. It's me, the game directors, my

37:33

music team, their audio team, all working

37:35

together. It's like building that barn in

37:37

Witness. You remember the old movie and

37:39

all the homage people are building the

37:41

barn and you're like, it takes...

37:43

Everybody to build this

37:45

barn, right? That's

37:48

what it is. Like

37:50

doing a game is

37:52

That's a weird

37:54

analogy That's a weird analogy. And again,

37:56

I'm just eating the hell

37:58

like it. the way

38:00

Go to be what the hell?

38:03

it's the way, speaking sound... So

38:05

about an all watch to

38:07

go one of the

38:09

most now, so fine. in

38:11

terms of The talk

38:13

of the score

38:15

versus go watch material of

38:18

the film. unusual film

38:20

of my terms. Favorite to

38:22

talk about I

38:24

won't say it's one

38:26

of my favorite

38:28

to listen to of my

38:31

Let's not talk about to.

38:33

But I digress, let's not talk years

38:35

old That We're getting

38:38

there. We're getting old. Dude, we're

38:40

getting That's crazy there. Geez, Louise,

38:42

that's crazy. Oh

39:48

The thing is though, the thing thing that

39:50

matters most for me in a a

39:52

game is not that. I mean that

39:54

is complicated But

39:56

writing a theme that

39:59

tells a story is

40:01

99% of the experience. Maybe I'm being

40:03

a little unfair, but this is just

40:06

my perspective. That when Corey Barlog, the

40:08

director of God of War, sat me

40:10

down and said, this game is the

40:12

story of a grieving father and his

40:15

estranged son, and they have to take

40:17

the ashes of their deceased wife and

40:19

mother to the highest peak in all

40:22

the realms per her dying wish, and

40:24

along the way. their fractured relationship goes

40:26

through trials and tribulations until they finally

40:28

come to some sort of understanding and

40:31

better they become better people for getting

40:33

to know each other. Well, it's like,

40:35

well, I know how to do that.

40:38

I don't care. That's a game. Like,

40:40

I know how to do that. Elmer

40:42

Bernstein taught me how to do that.

40:44

Okay, that's a, that's a story. So

40:47

writing the thematic material to do that

40:49

is such a big part of your

40:51

experience, your son's experience playing. the game.

40:54

Yes, it matters that the adaptive layers

40:56

change when you are doing better or

40:58

worse in a combat scenario. I'm not

41:00

going to say it doesn't matter, but

41:03

what makes the game memorable is that

41:05

story. And one of the things that

41:07

makes that story work is that theme.

41:10

And the interplay of those themes with

41:12

the story. So fundamentally, it all boils

41:14

down to the basics. I mean, I

41:16

worked on God of War for four

41:19

years. However, if all I did. was

41:21

give them da da da da da

41:23

da da da da and then I

41:26

walked away I'd still say I made

41:28

a big contribution to God of War.

41:30

Like so much of what matters in

41:32

God of War's music is right there

41:35

and in the other themes that I

41:37

wrote. I don't want to downplay it,

41:39

but I guess what I'm saying is

41:42

like so much of the other technical

41:44

stuff involves working with the teams and

41:46

getting them the pieces they need to

41:48

do all that technical stuff. It's not

41:51

that it's easy, but it's like it's

41:53

almost like I'm giving you options. I

41:55

don't have to think about it. It's

41:58

like here's 50 different ways you can

42:00

solve that problem. You solve that problem

42:02

of how to code it. I'm not

42:04

going to worry about that. What I'm

42:07

going to worry about is what Corey

42:09

said, the story, the grieving, estranged father

42:11

and son. That's my job, right? That's

42:14

not a code thing. That's not a

42:16

technical thing. That's an art, emotion, music

42:18

task. That is where I feel like

42:20

my journey and my skill set have

42:23

been honed. Amazing. Listen, I've kept you

42:25

longer than I meant to have. And

42:27

I know you've got a busy, busy

42:30

day. I'm so grateful for your time

42:32

and it's been wonderful to chat you.

42:34

I hope we can do this again

42:36

on 18th of April for people who

42:39

want to come along and watch the

42:41

show. It just, you know, it just

42:43

themes and variations, indigo at the O2

42:46

in London, it just sounds epic. Yeah,

42:48

it's going to be amazing. Bear, I

42:50

really appreciate your time and huge congrats

42:52

and I'm so excited to continue to

42:55

be just impressed and enjoy watching your

42:57

journey as well. Thank you so much.

42:59

This was delightful. Yeah.

44:59

From God of War, Ragnarok, which I've

45:01

heard in my house a lot, because

45:04

I really loved that game. That is

45:06

the title track by Bear McCready. Rounding

45:08

off this latest episode of sound tracking.

45:10

Huge thanks to the bear for taking

45:13

the time to talk to me also

45:15

for his team for reaching out and

45:17

making that happen. We're an absolute delight

45:19

he is. You can catch him at

45:22

the Indigo Auto 2 in London on

45:24

April the 18th with details of how

45:26

to get tickets at Bayer mccreary.com. Head

45:28

to Edith bowman.com to catch up with

45:31

every single episode of soundtrack and including

45:33

my chats with the wonderful pin or

45:35

top rack about her work on video

45:37

games. Whilst if you want to jump

45:40

on socials we are at soundtrack in

45:42

YouTube. We also have a YouTube channel

45:44

which we'd really appreciate you subscribing to.

45:46

It's called Soundtracking Extra. We'll be back

45:49

on Monday with the wonderful Hans Zimmer

45:51

and Paul Dugdale. We all know who

45:53

Hans Zimmer is. Paul Dugdale is a

45:55

wonderful director who's got an incredible CV

45:58

of... making brilliant programming

46:00

around mainly music music

46:02

live performances, the

46:04

likes of Ed Sheeran,

46:07

Coldplay, Dua many many many others. brought

46:09

brought him in to work

46:11

on this fantastic new film

46:13

is hitting cinemas on the 18th

46:15

of March. So Hans join us to discuss

46:18

us to discuss this fantastic,

46:20

wonderful film that they've worked

46:22

on together. I very much

46:24

look forward to the pleasure

46:26

of your company now. of your

46:28

company.