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1:11

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1:16

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1:19

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1:24

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1:26

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2:09

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find out a damn thing till it

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comes out March 3rd! In

2:56

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2:58

it's easy to lose sight

3:00

of the cracks forming beneath

3:02

the surface. Born into a

3:05

world of addiction, mental illness

3:07

and unspeakable secrets, one can

3:10

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3:12

madness that it becomes

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new crisis, a new fire

3:19

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the smoke and shadows, it's

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impossible to notice the creeping

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darkness. closing in. The familiar

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feels like survival, until

3:30

it's not. Like the proverbial

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frog sitting in a pot of

3:35

water, the rising heat goes

3:37

unnoticed. There's too much to

3:39

manage, calming the parent's paranoid

3:42

delusions, steering a sibling

3:45

away from another destructive

3:47

path, trying to hold it

3:50

all together. The storms are

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so familiar that they barely

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No purchase necessary. VGW group void were prohibited

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by law 21 plus. Terms and conditions

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apply. In

5:12

2007, 21-year-old Lauren Kukla found

5:14

herself shouldering the full responsibility

5:17

of her family's physical and

5:19

emotional well-being. Though she had

5:21

small children of her own,

5:23

their needs aren't what I'm

5:25

talking about here. Lauren was

5:28

not only caring for her

5:30

immediate household, but also managing

5:32

the endless conflicts between her

5:34

late schizophrenic mother and her four

5:36

older siblings, none of whom

5:38

could seem to get their

5:41

lives together for some reason.

5:43

Convenently, they all lived in

5:45

the same area near Macomb,

5:47

Michigan, and Lauren was stuck

5:49

carrying a burden far beyond

5:51

her years. Though her siblings'

5:53

houses were chaotic, messy,

5:55

and filled with conflict,

5:57

Lauren's house was different.

6:00

Though she was young, she and

6:02

her family lived a white picket

6:04

fence kind of life compared to

6:06

her two older sisters and two

6:08

older brothers. Her sister Elizabeth or

6:10

Lizzy was on drugs and had

6:12

already lost custody of her children.

6:15

And her sister 30-year-old Jennifer or

6:17

Jenny, the oldest of all the

6:19

siblings, was walking that same tightrope.

6:21

How Lauren turned out to be

6:23

a normal functioning member of society

6:25

after growing up in a household

6:27

like this is really a mystery.

6:29

On Saturday February 3rd 2007, all

6:32

while trying to juggle her career

6:34

and her young children's needs, Lauren

6:36

got a call from Jenny. As

6:38

usual, her oldest sister was having

6:40

a meltdown and needed help. He

6:42

had told me that Elizabeth Kookla.

6:44

or Lowry and sorry, our sister

6:46

and Lisa Fabri, the neighbor growing

6:48

up as a home. I suppose

6:51

her and I have led her

6:53

to believe that they were going

6:55

to have her kids taken away.

6:57

They were going to call the

6:59

CPS. As far as I know

7:01

at that time, that was a

7:03

truthful statement. Was he denied it

7:05

when I went to her up

7:08

to her place of employment later

7:10

at that time? I could see

7:12

her saying something like that because

7:14

she said it to me before

7:16

20 times the past couple years.

7:18

She said she hates Jenny. She

7:20

wishes she would just clean up

7:22

her act and blah and blah,

7:24

whatever. Because Liz got her kids

7:27

taken away. She thought that she

7:29

was fighting for them but she

7:31

wasn't fighting for them because she

7:33

was always doing crack and shit

7:35

like that. So she wasn't really

7:37

working at it. But she wanted

7:39

anybody to play it. Jenny to

7:41

feel the same pain as her.

7:43

Lizzy wasn't threatening to report Jenny

7:46

to CPS because she was genuinely

7:48

concerned about her nieces. She... She

7:50

just hated her sister and wanted

7:52

to see Jenny lose her kids

7:54

too. Nice, right? You could hear

7:56

that she was afraid that her

7:58

kids maybe taken away. She wanted

8:00

to make sure that they were,

8:03

you know... You believe she sounded

8:05

intoxicated at the time? No. I

8:07

didn't hear... I mean, Jenny was

8:09

an alcoholic as is, so I

8:11

couldn't tell the difference either way,

8:13

you know what I mean? She

8:15

wasn't a stupid drug kid by

8:17

that time. Okay. So when she

8:19

called, I just know that she,

8:22

you can tell that she just

8:24

wanted to make sure that the

8:26

girls were, I mean, that the

8:28

house was taken care of because

8:30

she did not want to lose

8:32

her because she was concerned. The

8:34

whole family knew Jenny was an

8:36

alcoholic, but her habits had gotten

8:39

worse over the prior months. Finances

8:41

were tight and she was spending

8:43

any extra money she had on

8:45

beer and all of her free

8:47

time drinking it. The kids, three

8:49

dogs, the pet mouse, none of

8:51

them were being cared for properly.

8:53

And the trailer they lived in

8:55

was an absolute disaster, as you

8:58

can imagine. To top it all

9:00

off, they didn't even have running

9:02

water. How long were the pipes

9:04

frozen for? She had said something

9:06

to me on Thursday about it.

9:08

So just a few days? Yeah.

9:10

And then frozen or just shut

9:12

off? Frozen. Everything worked, the heat

9:14

worked and everything. It said the

9:17

furnace broke the day before and

9:19

a hell even fixed it fixed

9:21

it. Al was Jenny's boyfriend. He

9:23

lived nearby and the two were

9:25

still friends. So did your sister

9:27

maintain that trailer on her own?

9:29

For the most part? Yes, for

9:31

the most part, yes. She kept

9:34

the heat on and kept the

9:36

water. I think there was one

9:38

time in the spring that she

9:40

had her gas turned off and

9:42

she called me. It was fall.

9:44

Because my mom had already passed

9:46

away. She called me and she

9:48

said, she said, you got it

9:50

all grandma. And now I'm going

9:53

to go between grandma because I...

9:55

took it upon myself to make

9:57

sure everything was up, you know,

9:59

taking care of it with my

10:01

mom and taking care of it

10:03

with grandma. everybody kind of looked

10:05

at me as the one who

10:07

would help them if they needed

10:10

something from grandma. So she asked

10:12

me, I need money for rent,

10:14

I need money to fix a

10:16

car, I need money to get

10:18

my license back, I need money

10:20

to, you know, all this stuff.

10:22

And I think, I was thinking,

10:24

you gotta get clean, you're drinking.

10:26

I wish I didn't give her

10:29

a lecture, I said you'd have

10:31

to give her lecture every time,

10:33

otherwise she doesn't know how you

10:35

feel, grandma. I said, I, She

10:37

did have shut off a couple

10:39

times, but not to the extent

10:41

where the girls didn't have anywhere

10:43

else to go or couldn't take

10:46

care of themselves and stuff. And

10:48

they always had food in the

10:50

fridge and stuff like that. Unfortunately,

10:52

food in the fridge is not

10:54

the only criteria CPS looks for

10:56

when deciding whether a home is

10:58

safe for children. It looked like

11:00

Jenny might actually get a visit

11:02

from a social worker, and it

11:05

wouldn't be the first time. CPS

11:07

had taken her kids before, but...

11:09

She knew that if it happened

11:11

again, she might not be able

11:13

to get them back. Lauren didn't

11:15

want to be at her family's

11:17

beck and call. She knew Jenny's

11:19

situation was largely because of her

11:21

own unwillingness to get help for

11:24

her alcoholism. And whatever else was

11:26

going on in her drama-filled life.

11:28

Her chief concern were her two

11:30

nieces. Jenny's eight-year-old daughter, Alexa. Apologies,

11:32

if I just activated your devices

11:34

at your devices at home. And

11:36

five-year-old daughter Ashley. So Lauren, the

11:38

family crisis manager that she was,

11:41

gathered some friends. A guy named

11:43

Russell and a woman named Jessica.

11:45

She offered them 10 bucks for

11:47

their time and drove them over

11:49

to her sister's house to help

11:51

her clean it up. So, then

11:53

I went to Ale's house to

11:55

pick her up and she... He

11:57

lives in a trailer park as

12:00

well. Yeah, like they're all with

12:02

their home. They're two block radius.

12:04

So I drove over there after

12:06

I asked Russell, I had Jessica,

12:08

they wanted to make 10 bucks.

12:10

I asked Stacy too, but she

12:12

said she didn't want to go

12:14

in the house because she knows

12:17

too dirty, she wanted to deal

12:19

with that. Okay, so you picked

12:21

up Jenny and the two kids?

12:23

Yeah. No, I picked up Jennifer.

12:25

Oh, and the kids stayed there

12:27

with Al. Manderbos? And,

12:29

is that her? Is she a boyfriend?

12:32

Just a ex-wife friend? Still a friend?

12:34

This kind of thing. Okay, kids were

12:36

lost there. Yeah. She got in the

12:38

car, she was acting fine. She just

12:40

said, you know, let's go right now.

12:43

We had the stunt. I said, okay,

12:45

Jenny, you know, we have a couple

12:47

hours or whatever. We had time. She

12:49

was, she was upset. Because she thinks

12:51

Lisa and Lucy were going to call.

12:54

Where did she get that? She said

12:56

that when she was over at Elizabeth's

12:58

house earlier that day, she was on

13:00

the phone with Lisa. Lisa had told

13:02

her something that triggered a memory of

13:05

how it's possible that she may have

13:07

been hypnotized into being a bad person

13:09

and that like Jennifer was. She said

13:11

that she said that she. send something

13:13

that triggered a memory of some kind

13:16

into her realizing that she may have

13:18

been hypnotized during her teenage years. Jenny

13:20

was probably grasping at straws, trying to

13:22

find reasons why her life turned out

13:24

as terribly as it did, and why

13:27

she couldn't seem to be a good

13:29

parent like her little sister, Lauren. Gee,

13:31

I wonder why. Being, you know, hypnotized

13:33

is an answer that takes the blame

13:35

off of Jenny. herself. It's one of

13:38

the things that alcoholics do. Just trust

13:40

me on that. There she wasn't actually

13:42

hypnotized. Jenny hadn't had an easy life.

13:44

Sure, her situation was a result of

13:46

her own decisions, but decisions are often

13:49

influenced by past experiences. And Jenny's life

13:51

had been rather traumatic. Jenny always had

13:53

problems. She believed that she was worth

13:55

us. She believed, I mean, she was

13:58

raped and everything else her mom didn't

14:00

take care of her. Like our mom

14:02

was, I met a lot and she

14:04

probably thought, you know, for some reason

14:06

I'm not being taken care of because,

14:09

you know, my mom brought this horrible

14:11

man into her life. You know what

14:13

I mean? Like, she just kept getting

14:15

different kinds of thoughts about that. So,

14:17

uh... Back to you, you told me

14:20

that your natural father was convicted of

14:22

rape of Jennifer. At what age? Like

14:24

how old? I think. It was over

14:26

a long period of time. I think

14:28

from like 12 to 15. 12 to

14:31

15. She was lost from Joseph, her

14:33

father's brother Robert. He was actually impaired.

14:35

She told me that he lost it

14:37

there as well, growing up, the younger

14:39

ages. that the neighbor at the residence

14:42

that I live in now are the

14:44

old neighbors that live there like their

14:46

nephew or something lost her as well.

14:48

She was raped just I mean walking

14:50

down the street kind of thing she

14:53

told me before. My other sister I'm

14:55

afraid she echoed into a van. Rape.

14:57

They had a pretty rough. Jenny managed

14:59

to pull something of a life together.

15:01

She had full custody of her two

15:04

young daughters, had a place for them

15:06

to live, and worked as a manager

15:08

for McDonald's. wasn't addicted to hard drugs

15:10

like her sister Lizzy, but alcoholism can

15:13

be more difficult to be because it's

15:15

normalized in society. I mean, try going

15:17

out. Just going out on the weekend.

15:19

Try to do something and not be

15:21

around alcohol. It's impossible. Plus, you know,

15:24

no one gives you a side eye

15:26

if they see you sipping on a

15:28

can of beer. How would they know

15:30

it's your 12th drink? On the other

15:32

hand, if you have a needle hanging

15:35

out of your arm, like a lot

15:37

of the residents of Portland, someone might

15:39

actually call the cops on you. Probably

15:41

not a Democrat, though. Anyways, Lauren, Jenny,

15:43

and their posse of helpers arrived at

15:46

the trailer and got to work. So,

15:48

um... So, um... So, um... So, um...

15:50

So, um... So, um... So, you guys

15:52

wanted to get Bibles. No, the whole

15:54

time the kids weren't here. before you

15:57

go to the store. And we went

15:59

to Ale's house and I grabbed the

16:01

beers and we had seven or eight.

16:03

Okay, and how many guys ran some

16:05

before that? I didn't have a chance.

16:08

They didn't have any she. Ella said

16:10

that she had some before and I

16:12

don't really know and she had some

16:14

at her house too and she drank

16:16

a couple over clean for the first

16:19

like hour and a half or what

16:21

not. We went to return all the

16:23

bottles that she had, I mean she

16:25

had some in her shed, she had

16:28

on her sink, she had all over

16:30

the house so we were trying to

16:32

clear the clutter, make some money for

16:34

garbage bags like albs, water, because her

16:36

pipes were frozen so we could, you

16:39

know, you know, heated up her wash

16:41

forever wash forever. And so we went

16:43

to a story, we came back. We

16:45

just continued to clean and we just

16:47

don't know when you came back. Yeah.

16:50

Oh, like I said, we'd forgotten to

16:52

bring her that beer, so she was

16:54

really happy when we got back because

16:56

she had her beer again. She's like,

16:58

my last to make street pizza. We

17:01

brought her some more beer. And, um,

17:03

at that time, we just finished up

17:05

cleaning Jessica was, uh, getting lazy playing

17:07

with the dogs or whatever. And then

17:09

me and Russell worked. the girls better,

17:12

finishing out vacuuming and stuff, and then

17:14

I went and did the bathroom myself,

17:16

and did the, me and Russell did

17:18

the back bedroom, and Jenny was doing

17:20

the kitchen and the dishes and stuff,

17:23

trying to get everything out of the

17:25

kitchen. At this point, Jenny was becoming

17:27

more paranoid with each beer. After the

17:29

others left, Jenny confided in her sister

17:31

that she feared they too would call

17:34

CPS on her, since they had seen

17:36

the state of the house firsthand. Jessica

17:38

might know because I know she, Jenny

17:40

was afraid that Jessica was going to

17:42

call the CPS because of something that

17:45

she said, which I don't know what

17:47

she said. I have no idea. She's

17:49

like, she's like, she's like, you know,

17:51

they're going to call their, you know,

17:54

they probably think, I'm, you know, horrible

17:56

none and all this stuff. And I

17:58

don't know. Jennifer was afraid Jessica was

18:00

going to call. Yes, because she was

18:02

afraid Russell and Jesse were going to

18:05

call too. So I said. And they

18:07

never, did they either wrestle or adjust

18:09

to it all? They never, never in.

18:11

They would have messed, we better call

18:13

CPS. No, and in fact in the

18:16

car when we were going to Els

18:18

House and I told her that she

18:20

was afraid, she goes, she told me

18:22

not to tell you guys, but I

18:24

was like, you're not going to tell

18:27

you guys, but I was like, you're

18:29

not going to tell you guys, but

18:31

I was like, you're not going to

18:33

tell you guys, but I was like,

18:35

you're not to tell me not to

18:38

tell you guys, but I, but I,

18:40

but I, but I, I, she told

18:42

me not to tell me not to

18:44

tell me not to tell you guys,

18:46

but I, but I, I, I, I,

18:49

I, I, I, I, I, you know,

18:51

I, I, I, I, I, I, I,

18:53

I, I, I, I, I, I, I,

18:55

I told me not to tell me

18:57

not to tell you know, I Like

19:00

they were getting a car and she

19:02

was like, just make sure they don't

19:04

call her. And I think she was

19:06

really fearful that they would call. So

19:09

you guys left to go with the

19:11

girls? Yeah. And brought the girls back?

19:13

We left to go get the girls.

19:15

And I helped to go get the

19:17

girls. And I helped him start getting

19:20

ready. And all of a sudden, Jenny

19:22

showed up. Yeah, how did she get

19:24

there? She ran. She did it's two

19:26

streets away. And she lost her. But

19:28

I know she had a boost mobile.

19:31

This was a motor roller. In fact,

19:33

the phone is in my car right

19:35

now. But I said, you know, I

19:37

don't know where that phone came from

19:39

and she's like, I was like, I

19:42

moved it. I put it on it

19:44

on the end table like three times

19:46

in you. I even asked you if

19:48

it was yours. And she's like, oh,

19:50

okay, yeah. But why would she went

19:53

over there if you were going right

19:55

back? It's possible. As I turned it

19:57

on or anything, it doesn't turn on,

19:59

but I'm sure it doesn't turn on,

20:01

but I'm sure it works. But it

20:04

just seems it strikes me as she

20:06

would run all the way over there,

20:08

even though we were taking the kids

20:10

back there. Jenny must have been suspicious

20:12

that they were conspiring against her to

20:15

help CPS take away the kids and

20:17

Literally ran several blocks to the house

20:19

the girls were staying at under the

20:21

guise of returning a cell phone So

20:24

I think that she was even fearful

20:26

at that time that I would try

20:28

to take the kids and I don't

20:30

understand but whatever So we Jenny got

20:32

in the back and I have a

20:35

The third one sitting station wagon she

20:37

got in the back with Blexa. I

20:39

had the first thing she said when

20:41

she opened the back and I was

20:43

already in the car and actually wasn't

20:46

I have a like a booster seat

20:48

for her. It was big enough for

20:50

my daughter, big enough for her and

20:52

big enough for her. She's like, Lauren,

20:54

why would you ask Loxa if she

20:57

even liked me? I'm like, I didn't

20:59

say that. And I was like, Loxa,

21:01

did you ask her? Did you ask

21:03

her? And she goes, are you lying,

21:05

Lexa? And, you know, not angry, not

21:08

angry. She was more concerned for, you

21:10

know, why she would lie to her.

21:12

And, um, and I said to me,

21:14

I didn't say that. And I said,

21:16

I talked to him earlier this week

21:19

when they were at my house. And

21:21

I said that, you know, momma tries

21:23

her boss, you know. And that was

21:25

the end of the conversation and we

21:27

drove home and the kids were just.

21:30

What about did Lexa actually ask her?

21:32

I don't know. I wasn't. I mean,

21:34

I got into the car. There was

21:36

never any answer to the question because

21:38

you asked her. She never answered the

21:41

question. Jenny asked her and Lexa never

21:43

answered the question, but I know she

21:45

was quiet. And Lexa had. tendency to

21:47

do stuff like that just kind of

21:50

tattle or like say you know mix

21:52

up the words or something and that

21:54

Jenny would get not upset but she

21:56

would get like like why why you

21:58

have to think you have to lie

22:01

to me kind of thing you know

22:03

and so we drove home everything was

22:05

fine and we were you know I

22:07

had the radio on whatever but she

22:09

opened a door and she went in

22:12

and then the girls You know, they

22:14

went in right ahead of me, I

22:16

don't know how we got mixed up,

22:18

but anyway. And I was like, no,

22:20

stop, because they weren't taking off their

22:23

shoes and stuff, I was throwing out

22:25

their shoes and put their coats and

22:27

stuff, you know, and I said, they're

22:29

like, wow, you're looking around, they're all

22:31

excited, because the house was so much

22:34

cleaner than it was before, like, literally,

22:36

300, 300 times better. And I mean,

22:38

even. I probably weren't used to having

22:40

a place to hang the coast. All

22:42

right. So they weren't used to. And

22:45

they were in so, I don't want

22:47

to cry, but they were in so

22:49

bad, they have that kind of home.

22:51

When they were at my house and

22:53

stuff, they knew. They knew the difference.

22:56

They were playing with my kids on

22:58

Thursday night. They loved it. I was

23:00

teaching her how to wash from top

23:02

to bottom in the bath kind of

23:05

thing. You know what you're... You have

23:07

to rinse it all out, so I

23:09

was in there, you know, washing my

23:11

teeth and stuff. I was like, you

23:13

got to get ready for bed, you

23:16

have to, you know, I was just

23:18

thinking to my head, how does she

23:20

not know this stuff at, you know,

23:22

almost nine years old, and she doesn't

23:24

know how to take care of her

23:27

body. Well, I guess, we're no one.

23:29

Well, I mean, yeah, I know it

23:31

was a frozen pipes, but other than

23:33

that, I mean. anymore. Lauren went home

23:35

that night to take care of her

23:38

own household and planned to check in

23:40

on Jenny and her kids the very

23:42

next day right after her shift at

23:44

the local family restaurant. She expected to

23:46

see Jenny lounging around enjoying the day

23:49

with her girls in their newly clean

23:51

trailer. Lauren certainly hadn't pictured herself dialing

23:53

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Group Voigt were prohibited by law 21

25:07

plus terms and conditions apply. 21-year-old

25:28

Lauren Kukla had just cleaned up

25:30

another family crisis. One of her

25:32

sisters Lizzy had already lost custody

25:35

of her children, and her oldest

25:37

sister Jennifer was about to meet

25:39

the same fate. That was until

25:42

Lauren rallied a group together to

25:44

help Jennifer tidy up her house

25:47

in preparation for a CPS visit.

25:49

The next day, Sunday, February 4th,

25:51

Lauren planned to drive over and

25:54

check in on her sister. But

25:56

she was wholly unprepared. Unprepared. for

25:58

what she'd find. I worked from

26:01

10. I was there at 9.50 to

26:03

all the way to 5 o'clock,

26:05

5.15. After work, Lauren picked

26:07

up her kids and drove

26:10

over to Jenny's trailer to

26:12

check in. When she got there,

26:14

the front door was hanging

26:16

open. This immediately

26:18

struck Lauren as odd.

26:20

After all, it was winter, in

26:23

Michigan. I pulled out or walked up, you know,

26:25

I called the name because the door was open, like it

26:27

said. So you call her name? I called her name, and

26:30

I was on the phone with my friend Jason at the

26:32

time, telling him all about how, you know, how my

26:34

sister was being annoying, you know, and like, whatever,

26:36

you know, how she's pissing me out, so I'm

26:38

like, like, whatever, whatever, you know, how my sister

26:40

was being annoying, you know, like, like, like, like,

26:42

like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

26:44

like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

26:46

like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

26:48

like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

26:51

like, like, like, like, like, like, like, And then

26:53

Jay comes to the door dressed like

26:55

a hobo and like a skirt, jeans,

26:57

and sweaters, and whatever. I don't know.

26:59

I don't even know exactly what her

27:01

tops were, but I know jeans and

27:04

a canky skirt were on the bottom.

27:06

And just thinking that was really

27:08

weird. So that's how I used

27:10

to dress sometimes when she was being

27:13

stupid. What Lauren meant by when

27:15

she was being stupid is that her

27:17

mother used to layer odd,

27:19

unmatching pieces of clothing. during

27:22

bad mental health episodes. Increasingly,

27:25

Jenny was starting to act

27:27

more and more like her mother. She

27:29

would ramble on about

27:31

nonsensical things, have bouts

27:33

of extreme paranoia, and just,

27:35

you know, act erratic. Now, Lauren

27:38

could see a visual representation

27:41

of the transformation that

27:43

had been taking place for

27:45

years as Jenny's mental

27:47

health quietly declined. She

27:49

had a khaki shirt layered over a

27:51

pair of jeans. Her hair was

27:54

disheveled and like Lauren said

27:56

she looked like a homeless

27:58

person. Anyway, sorry. I got to

28:00

go out for the door, I left

28:02

the kids in the car, you know,

28:04

I'm planning on just stopping at the

28:07

door saying, you know, let's go out

28:09

to eat or whatever, I did pretty

28:11

good at work, I was going to

28:13

say, let's find your phone to do

28:15

whatever we got to do today. I

28:17

noticed the first thing that the dogs

28:19

didn't run up to me or went

28:21

outside or where the hell were the

28:24

dogs, I know the door was open,

28:26

but usually they're at the radio on.

28:28

She said, I was in the door,

28:30

literally in the doorway. And so you

28:32

stood in the door, you actually go

28:34

in. Yep, I said in the door.

28:36

Yeah, and then she said, can I

28:38

have a cigarette? And that's when I

28:41

took my first step into the door,

28:43

you know, into the actual house. She

28:45

asked her cigarette and then I noticed

28:47

this to quiet. I said, where I

28:49

could. And she said, she's standing back

28:51

towards the kitchen table where we were

28:53

sitting like before there in the corner.

28:55

And she said, I said, I killed

28:58

her. She said, I'm going to the

29:00

deep, all I said was no, pretty

29:02

bad, I mean, I don't remember if

29:04

I said anything else, but I just

29:06

said no, and not, like, no, like,

29:08

no, you know, and she said, I'm

29:10

going to the defense of hell. And

29:13

she said, I'm going to the defense

29:15

of hell. And she said, it's all

29:17

over now, and it's done. And she

29:19

wasn't looking at me, she was looking

29:21

at the ground and it was play's

29:23

face, face, face, again. It is done

29:25

like that like it is done And

29:27

she goes I'm going and she looked

29:30

up and she goes you have to

29:32

call the police anymore And I said

29:34

okay, I said but show me how

29:36

you tried to kill yourself And soon

29:38

she showed me the rest I had

29:40

already backed up enough to where I

29:42

was out almost off the door at

29:44

the door away again and She showed

29:47

it to me and I was on

29:49

the porch by that like I took

29:51

another stuff and I was on porch

29:53

at the decker or the decker or

29:55

the decker the work and I was

29:57

like Yeah. It never won. Yeah. Before

30:00

her police interview, investigators hope that allowing

30:02

Lauren to listen to her own 911

30:04

call over again would jog her memory

30:06

and help them piece together what was

30:09

going through Jenny's mind. Well, like, I

30:11

mean, if you could listen to it

30:13

right now, I was really home in

30:15

the beginning because I had still outside

30:17

of the car when I called and...

30:19

Jenny was like, are you calling? And

30:22

I said, I wanted to say no,

30:24

because I didn't know I was fearful

30:26

for my kids in the car and

30:28

for myself, but I was walking around

30:30

to get the address in the car.

30:32

You know, like in the driveway or

30:35

around the streets? I walked around the

30:37

back in the car because I'm thinking,

30:39

I walked around the back in the

30:41

car because I'm thinking I'm looking, I

30:43

walked around the back in the car

30:46

because I'm thinking, I walked around the

30:48

back in the car because I'm I

30:50

walked around the street, I walked around

30:52

the car, I walked around the car,

30:54

I walked around the car, I walked

30:56

around the car, I'm thinking, I walked

30:59

around the car, I walk, I'm, I'm,

31:01

I'm, I'm, I'm, I walked around the,

31:03

I walked around the, I'm, I'm, I'm,

31:05

I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm,

31:07

I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, And I gave

31:09

her the later reason, and she gave

31:12

it back to me. But I'm walking

31:14

around the back of the car, staying

31:16

behind the station wagon, thinking that's the

31:18

safest place if I have to run,

31:20

because I know my car is locked.

31:23

And I had the keys in my

31:25

pocket. So I'm standing back there, and

31:27

I'm saying, yes, Jennifer, I'm calling, you

31:29

know, whatever. I started on a dispatch,

31:31

I told him, you know, I don't

31:33

know what's going on. I know. And

31:36

then I'm like, man, you have three

31:38

nights to tell us. And I'm thinking,

31:40

you know, what is there to tell?

31:42

I couldn't even say what am I

31:44

supposed to say, you know? And I

31:46

remember telling them that, yeah, she harmed

31:49

herself and she said that she killed

31:51

her kids. When police arrived at the

31:53

scene and entered the trailer, they found

31:55

Jenny pacing around ready to be taken

31:57

to the, quote, depths of hell. Their

32:00

eyes were quickly drawn to the first

32:02

bloody scene. Three dead dogs. Three dead

32:04

dogs. piled up inside a crate. Jenny

32:06

hadn't stopped there. She even stabbed the

32:08

pet mouse inside its cage. As officers

32:10

made their way to the back bedroom,

32:13

they could see that tragically, Jenny was

32:15

telling the truth about her kids. Eight-year-old

32:17

Alexa... motionless on a makeshift bed next

32:19

to her five-year-old sister Ashley. Their throats

32:21

had been cut. Jennifer, you know Mark,

32:23

right? You've been talking to him. Like

32:26

I said, I'm Dave. We both work

32:28

here for the sheriff's office, okay? We

32:30

want to talk to you about what's

32:32

going on. Okay, before we do that,

32:34

can you look at me? When we're

32:37

talking, put your hair on your face,

32:39

I can see it. Look at me.

32:41

There you go. Before we do that,

32:43

okay, maintain eye contact with me, okay?

32:45

Before we do that, we have to

32:47

read your rights, okay? You know what

32:50

those are, you've heard about them, you

32:52

see them on TV. All right, I'm

32:54

gonna read them to you, okay? Exactly

32:56

as they are on the list here.

32:58

All right, then we're done. Lucky to

33:00

sign them, okay? And we can't talk

33:03

until we do that, right? Are you

33:05

cold? Okay, can we just read your

33:07

rights here, okay? You have the right

33:09

for your main sound? First of all,

33:11

Jennifer, okay. Take a deep breath. Okay.

33:14

Get a hold of yourself, all right?

33:16

Just like a little. Get a hold

33:18

of yourself, right? Now you're set. You

33:20

got every right to be, okay. Well,

33:22

you have to go through this, all

33:24

right? Okay. You understand all those? Yes.

33:27

Okay. And then the last question is...

33:29

Let me see, she's like, I don't

33:31

want to talk about it. Oh, man,

33:33

let me finish this, sir. I really

33:35

state, I have really statements, I understand

33:37

what my rights are. I'm willing to

33:40

make a statement, I answer questions. I

33:42

do not want a lawyer at this

33:44

time. I understand and know what I'm

33:46

doing. No promises and threats have been

33:48

made to me. No pressure or coercion

33:51

of any kind of use against me.

33:53

Okay. Okay, is it

33:55

because you want to talk to an

33:57

attorney or is it? I don't even

33:59

want to think about it. We just

34:01

want to get a couple things straight

34:04

to make sure we got everything, we

34:06

got everything right. Okay, so we don't

34:08

want to get anything wrong. Okay. If

34:10

you want to talk to an attorney,

34:12

that's one thing. What if you just,

34:14

if you're a little nervous about it,

34:16

you're going to work out. You're very

34:19

cooperative during the, uh, the friends of

34:21

the name, which we really appreciate. Nurses,

34:23

we're very pleased with that. No. You

34:27

can get your blanket

34:30

or make a circle

34:32

for yourself? You can't

34:34

raise my brain. If

34:37

you can't understand her,

34:39

at the end she

34:41

said, erase my brain,

34:44

erase my memory, and

34:46

I'd love you for

34:48

that one. We can

34:51

only imagine what's in

34:53

there. Do

34:55

you understand what we're trying to do here? You

34:57

know, like I said, if you want to turn

34:59

in your, or something like that, I can understand

35:01

it. Just write something though. I'm just, I'm just

35:03

talking to you. I'm not, you know. We just

35:05

want to make sure we got things right. We

35:07

want to make sure we got things right. We

35:09

want to make sure we got them understood. We

35:11

don't want to make sure we got them understood.

35:14

We don't want to make sure we got them

35:16

understood. We don't want to understand. We don't want

35:18

to understand. We don't want to understand. We don't

35:20

want to understand. We don't want to understand. We

35:22

don't want to make sure. We don't want to

35:24

understand. We don't want to understand. We don't want

35:26

to understand. We don't want to understand. We don't

35:28

want to understand. We don't want to understand. We

35:30

don't want to understand. We don't want to understand.

35:32

We want to understand. We want to understand. We

35:34

It's clear that these guys were getting nervous that

35:36

Jenny may decide not to talk. So, they started

35:38

to employ a little bit of a good cop,

35:40

bad cop. Just before the one detective was able

35:42

to follow through on his promise of some water

35:44

in a blanket, the other came bursting back into

35:46

the room. What do you think about that? When

35:48

I sit and think about it with a little

35:50

bit of water in a blanket? Maybe some water.

35:54

All right, you don't want to talk

35:56

to us? Is that right? You don't

35:59

want to talk to us? I don't

36:01

want to really talk about it. But

36:03

you can answer it. I can see

36:05

if I can answer it. I can't

36:08

prompt. Okay, stand up then. Don't put

36:10

me back back. I took her back.

36:12

They took her back to her cell

36:15

and planned to try again the next

36:17

day. Could we just reiterate, yesterday you

36:19

said you didn't want to talk to

36:22

us because you just weren't up towards

36:24

the top? Yeah. Jennifer,

36:27

you take your medication normally? No?

36:29

Nothing. Okay. And see, it doesn't

36:31

matter that means you want to

36:34

talk to us? Okay. psychiatric or

36:36

nothing for any type of physical.

36:38

Okay. Once Jennifer really starts to

36:40

open up the detectives in this

36:43

interview, it's clear that she absolutely

36:45

needed to be on psychiatric medicine.

36:47

It's not often that we gain

36:49

access to police interviews of defendants

36:51

suffering from severe mental illness, but

36:54

Jennifer's case is unique. We'll get

36:56

back to that later. Well, we

36:58

know what we're here, right? Yeah.

37:00

Okay. And we know what happened.

37:03

You know what happened, right? The

37:05

big question is why. And that's

37:07

why I want to go. I

37:09

don't know. I really don't fucking

37:12

know. It's like the night before,

37:14

or the night before, or the

37:16

night before, or the night before,

37:18

I got it. Every time I

37:20

closed my eyes and keep having

37:23

these bad dreams, they're like, dead

37:25

people or whatever, and blah blah

37:27

blah. I'm like, well, well, what

37:29

the hell, this is just weird.

37:32

This is just weird. This is

37:34

just weird. This is just weird.

37:36

Does this happen to you frequently

37:38

that you dream about dead people

37:41

or? No, never. I watched freaking

37:43

story movies. None of this appears

37:45

to me. First time you've ever

37:47

had a second. Okay. Yeah. I

37:49

mean, hell, my kid. We used

37:52

to watch the Side Fudge here

37:54

all the time. But anyway. So

37:56

I was like, the whole thing

37:58

for that, no big deal, all

38:01

the next day, no big deal,

38:03

no problems, nothing. What day with

38:05

that? What day with that event?

38:07

I don't remember. I don't even

38:09

know what date is right now.

38:12

Today's Monday. And then all of

38:14

a sudden my sister was there,

38:16

my sister learned, she was the

38:18

one that calls you guys. Right?

38:21

She was at my house and

38:23

all of a sudden I just

38:25

kept freaking hearing, I was like

38:27

voice in my head, telling me

38:30

all this shit, she's like, hey

38:32

stop talking to, stop listening to

38:34

the voice or whatever the hell

38:36

you're doing, stop doing it. And

38:38

then she was, you know, you

38:41

were just into the voice? I

38:43

was telling her, it was a

38:45

Saturday afternoon. Now keep in mind

38:47

the average person would probably freak

38:50

out upon hearing their sibling talking

38:52

to themselves as if they're having

38:54

a conversation But for Lauren this

38:56

was nothing new She was no

38:59

stranger to brushing off the nonsensical

39:01

ramblings She even said to Jenny

39:03

stop talking to those voices or

39:05

whatever it is that you're doing

39:07

in Lauren's sane mind addressing her

39:10

older sister's mental illness was at

39:12

the bottom of the list of

39:14

priorities. When Jenny's pipes froze and

39:16

the trailer descended into chaos, Lauren's

39:19

first concern was the safety of

39:21

her nieces. Basically, she thought, okay,

39:23

Jenny isn't a danger to herself

39:25

or them. She's made it this

39:27

far in life. Let's just deal

39:30

with the issues that we can

39:32

fix right now, which, you know,

39:34

makes a lot of sense. And

39:36

what did you guys do? Were

39:39

you guys picking things up around

39:41

the house? Yeah, they're helping me

39:43

clean out my house and shit.

39:45

Okay. So I've been drinking way

39:48

too much in my house with

39:50

a sec. What were you guys

39:52

planning on it for? She said,

39:54

I was the first to take

39:56

a call. That was going to

39:59

lose my... kids. The house was

40:01

that bad. I mean, it had to

40:03

be cleaned up so they came over

40:05

to help me clean it up and

40:08

forget I was gonna, my sister paid

40:10

them 10 bucks a piece to help

40:12

me that day and I was gonna

40:14

pay her back the money. So I

40:16

was broke. Did, were you drinking

40:19

when they were there? I had a

40:21

couple of beers when they were there.

40:23

How often do you drink? You

40:25

said you've been drinking a lot,

40:27

but in how much? Every day.

40:29

Usually by natural ice beer or whatever. But, I

40:32

mean, shoot, they were helping him over and they were helping

40:34

me down that and I just started freaking out.

40:36

And then after they left, it's when I'm freaking,

40:38

I started, actually... Do you hear voices when you

40:40

drink? No. I don't think I've ever had any

40:42

evidence ever in my entire life. It was

40:44

just like somebody's freaking, right in my fucking

40:47

head. It wasn't even like hearing, hearing, hearing

40:49

voices. I hear it, and it was reading,

40:51

hearing, hearing, hearing voices, hearing, hearing, hearing, hearing,

40:53

hearing, hearing, hearing, hearing voices, hearing voices, hearing

40:56

voices. voices. It was a weird shit, go to this part

40:58

of the house, go to that part of the house,

41:00

go to that part of the house, go to that

41:02

part of the house, go to that part of the

41:04

house. It was like, how nice and sweet at first,

41:06

and then it started getting freaking weird, and then it

41:08

just freaking got evil, freaking, it's even telling me, and

41:10

then it's freaking, freaking, it's even telling me, and then

41:12

it's freaking, even telling me, up, and then I'm freaking,

41:14

even telling me, and then, even telling me, and then,

41:16

and then, freaking, freaking, and then, freaking, freaking, freaking, and

41:18

then, freaking, freaking, freaking, freaking, freaking, freaking, freaking, freaking, freaking,

41:20

freaking, freaking, freaking, freaking, freaking, freaking, freaking, freaking, freaking, freaking,

41:22

freaking, freaking, freaking, freaking, freaking, freaking, freaking, freaking, freaking, freaking,

41:24

freaking, freaking, freaking, freaking, freaking, freaking, freaking, freaking, freaking, freaking,

41:26

house that they wouldn't die that night and then

41:28

halfway there and said take them back home

41:30

because they are they're already killed at that

41:33

house and did you actually take them down

41:35

the street? Yeah I did. All of what

41:37

Jenny is recounting to police had happened after

41:39

her sister Lauren left that night. I'm

41:41

still confused I'm still just like figuring

41:43

this out it was like what the hell man

41:45

what did I do? I actually freaking did that

41:48

oh it gets weirder and this gets really weirder.

41:50

Fricking that, all that happens and then, okay, fine,

41:52

get back in the house. I'm like, well, what

41:54

the hell, you know, this is just for you. Why did you

41:56

turn back? Kids, the voice told me to, whatever voice told

41:58

me to, and fricking, not to go. on there because

42:00

they were already dead and little and

42:02

then somebody would go back to the

42:04

house and it said well shake in

42:06

the morning because then you'll find out

42:09

they're not dead and but don't go

42:11

over there now and then blah blah

42:13

and back and forth and kept staying

42:15

stuff about how people would come over

42:17

and there and kill me and come over

42:19

and come over and come over and come over and

42:21

come over and come over and come over and come

42:23

over and come over and come over and over and

42:25

come over and come over and Yeah, I did. Were

42:27

you sleeping on the floor? So we were going to

42:30

all sleep together on the bed, because it was like,

42:32

well, whatever. And then this voice is telling me all

42:34

this weird shit, so we're, because we haven't done this

42:36

in years, because I used to see by the couch.

42:38

But then we're going to freaking, sleep on the bed.

42:40

So we're going to sleep on the bed. So we're

42:42

going to sleep on the couch. Then we're going to

42:44

sleep on the bed, sleep on the bed. So we're,

42:47

sleep on the bed, so we're, sleep on the bed,

42:49

so we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're,

42:51

we're going to sleep, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're going

42:53

to sleep, we're going to sleep, we're, we're, we're, we're

42:55

going to sleep, we're going, we're going, we're going, we're

42:57

going, we're And it was all good like that, and

42:59

then freaking I got up, and the voice started talking

43:02

to me again, and freaking telling me that shit. Girls just

43:04

sleep at that point when you got up? Yeah. Okay. And freaking,

43:06

I actually went in front of him, I had the butcher knife

43:08

up to my neck, and I didn't do that, and then freaking, the

43:10

voice was telling me, the voice was telling me, and I didn't do

43:12

that, and then the voice was telling me, and the voice was telling

43:14

me, and the voice was, and the voice, and the voice, telling me,

43:16

and the voice, telling me, and the voice, telling me, and the voice,

43:18

telling me, telling me, and the voice, and the voice, telling me, and

43:20

the voice, telling me, and the voice, and the voice, telling me, telling

43:22

me, telling me, and the voice, and the voice, telling me, and the

43:24

voice, telling me, and the voice, and the voice, and the voice, telling

43:26

me, and the voice, So the voices in

43:29

Jennifer's head were apparently

43:31

telling her that if she didn't

43:33

kill her kids people would break into

43:35

her house take them away from her

43:37

and they'd suffer a fate far worse

43:39

than death Whatever that is At

43:42

this point she had long stopped drinking

43:44

beers hoping sobriety would make all

43:46

of this go away, but it

43:48

wasn't working At first Jennifer

43:50

refused to give into the

43:53

voices and follow through with the

43:55

murders instead She put the butcher knife

43:57

she grabbed from the kitchen up to her

43:59

own throat. and considered killing

44:01

herself. After deciding against

44:04

that, she went and sat in the

44:06

front room, still clutching

44:08

the knife, and waited for people

44:11

to arrive. If the voices were

44:13

right and someone did break in,

44:15

she'd be ready to defend her

44:18

family. Some time passed and,

44:20

obviously, nothing happened. The

44:22

voices were gone, too, so. Thinking

44:24

the whole ordeal was over, she

44:26

went back and laid in bed.

44:29

with her girls eventually falling asleep

44:31

until morning. Yeah, go back to when you at

44:33

7.30 you woke them up, put their cold and

44:35

shoes on. Yeah, then we're gonna go leave and

44:37

freaking, doesn't where they're like, no, freaking, we

44:40

can't leave or whatever, blah, blah, blah.

44:42

You're gonna go? Do you think? Across the

44:44

street to the pay phone to call my

44:46

dad for some reason. Okay. To try to

44:48

come pick us up. I was like freaking

44:51

so scared. I don't even know if we

44:53

went outside, I don't remember before we turned

44:55

back in and freaking didn't. And then it

44:57

was like nothing was happening and

45:00

all of a sudden I just

45:02

freaking prepared them and they've been

45:04

did it. All right, when that

45:06

happened, where did you get the

45:08

knife from? I think it was in

45:10

the kitchen. And how did the girls

45:12

get back in the bedroom? Did you?

45:15

Who went first? Alexa? Your younger

45:17

one? The bigger one, I'm sorry.

45:19

I mean, she's actually, I, by the way, actually, I

45:21

thought, freaking, I could swear it, I thought, I was

45:23

like telling her, I was like, I love you, you

45:25

know, you'll never be her, blah blah blah blah blah,

45:27

I will let that happen to you. And then she's

45:29

like, get Ashley, and I was like, okay, and then

45:31

I walked out of the freaking bedroom, and I can't

45:33

believe, I said, I believe, I said that, I said

45:35

I don't, I, I actually run from the freaking, I

45:37

from the freaking, I from their room. Yeah, I, I,

45:39

I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I,

45:41

I, I, I, I thought, I thought, I thought, I thought,

45:43

I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I thought, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm,

45:45

I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, talking about what she

45:47

did to her own two little girls.

45:49

You can hear in the audio that

45:51

she seems to show some remorse,

45:54

but her train of thought keeps

45:56

getting redirected away from the worst

45:58

parts of that morning. actually

46:00

back in the bedroom next to a lot

46:02

so did is that where she died is

46:05

that where it happened? I think yeah I don't

46:07

take Ashley died until the better did

46:09

you because it was in the kitchen yeah

46:11

but she was I thought she was there

46:13

in the kitchen but I don't think she

46:16

was there in the kitchen but I don't

46:18

think she died until she got back in

46:20

the bedroom did you actually stab

46:22

her in the kitchen yes and how

46:24

did you stab her Were she

46:26

on the floor on the ground

46:28

on her back? Was she standing

46:31

up? I don't remember. Did you

46:33

stay? Maybe I didn't do it

46:35

in the kitchen, then. I don't

46:37

know. Okay. But you took her

46:39

back to the better at some

46:41

point. Was she fighting you?

46:43

No. I don't know. I don't think

46:45

so. She probably was. I

46:48

would have been fought. You would

46:50

be later next to, uh,

46:52

to Alexa. Wasn't last already

46:54

dead at this point? Yeah. And when

46:56

you laid Ashley, was she dead when

46:58

you laid her next door? Did you

47:01

play her down then? Later down, I think

47:03

I made sure she was dead. I don't

47:05

know. When you see I made sure she

47:07

was dead, what did you do? See if

47:09

there was pulp? Can you show me how,

47:11

can you put the cup down for a

47:14

second? Show me what hand you held the

47:16

knife in and show me how you

47:18

actually, what motion you did. I

47:20

don't know, like. dead? I think I don't.

47:22

So you're holding your hand up like

47:24

this and coming down with a knife?

47:27

Do you hold a knife like this?

47:29

In the footage, the detective

47:31

shows two different stabbing

47:33

motions. The first one he

47:35

demonstrates is an overhead downward

47:38

motion, while the other is an

47:40

underhanded swiping upwards. Where

47:42

the voices told talking to you when you were doing this?

47:44

They were doing this on. I wouldn't freaking leave my

47:46

house after I did it. I actually thought I saved

47:48

them. And then I just tried looking around the house

47:51

and freaking, everything the voices told me the night before.

47:53

And the voices were actually even telling me I think

47:55

that freaking, they were going to drive me crazy. So

47:57

I killed my kids by the morning time. And I

47:59

was like, no. at one point I think

48:01

all right so I don't remember

48:03

everything it was sometime it was

48:06

sometimes short after 730 yesterday morning

48:08

when the girls die right yeah

48:10

okay and then how long after

48:12

the dogs die you recall not

48:15

long I was walking around the

48:17

house and I kept thinking about

48:19

freaking weird shit about I was

48:21

going to go burning hell now

48:24

and demons were gonna come pick

48:26

me up from the front of

48:28

my house and I'm freaking red

48:30

tar with fingers and toenails it's

48:33

freaking Seat covers and shit, I

48:35

don't know, it was, fuck, freaky.

48:37

And all of a sudden it

48:39

was like, the dogs are still

48:42

alive, freaking, I want to be

48:44

tortured, it is when they drop

48:46

me down into hell, and I

48:48

killed the animals. Kill the animals,

48:51

how'd you do that? Oh, shit.

48:53

There was a lot of water

48:55

for you, so. Oh. Oh. And

48:57

I told them it was their

49:00

own good. And you put it

49:02

on a blanket? Was the... I

49:04

threw them in the cage. Okay,

49:06

and then where are the little

49:09

ones called? The puppies, they were,

49:11

um, Jasmine, and, um, what was

49:13

the other ones, Sam? And they

49:15

were, uh, the offspring of Angel,

49:18

that was their mom. What kind

49:20

of dog are they? I don't

49:22

know. She's, she was full Pomeranian,

49:24

and I don't know what dad

49:27

was. She just got pregnant. She

49:29

just got pregnant. Okay. And then,

49:31

what about that mouse and the

49:33

cat mouse? I didn't kill the

49:36

mouse, too. How did you, uh,

49:38

did you? I think they broke

49:40

it. Snack or something. Did you

49:42

try to stab it? Probably. Jennifer

49:45

had killed every living being in

49:47

her small trailer. Her two defenseless

49:49

girls, three tiny Pomeranians, two of

49:51

them puppies puppies. and even the

49:54

pet mouse. And it wasn't just

49:56

the dog. she had to chase

49:58

down to finish the job. Despite

50:00

their youngest age, her two daughters

50:03

knew exactly what was going to

50:05

happen, and they tried to get

50:07

away. There's nothing I can say

50:09

to prepare you for this next

50:12

part. It is absolutely heartbreaking. Just

50:14

to go back, just so I

50:16

can clarify. Alexa was killed in

50:18

her bedroom. Was she killed right

50:20

where we found her? On the

50:23

floor? on that little makeshift bed

50:25

that you guys were sleeping on.

50:27

Okay. And then when, while Alexa

50:29

was being killed, Ashley ran out

50:32

of the room and she ran

50:34

into the kitchen. And she was

50:36

high under the table. And she

50:38

was high under the table. And

50:41

I pulled her out. And did

50:43

you, did you, did you stand

50:45

her out on the table at

50:47

all? Did you try it? Like,

50:50

like, come on, come out, or,

50:52

or, or how did you get

50:54

her out from around the table?

51:00

So we're wondering, did she

51:02

get stabbed or there at

51:04

all? She got stabbed in

51:07

the bedroom first and Lexa

51:09

pushed me out, pushed her

51:11

out of the way and

51:14

then I did deluxe her.

51:16

As she was already bleeding.

51:19

Okay, so As she was

51:21

bleeding, that's why there's a

51:23

bit of blood on the

51:26

table. And you lay, did

51:28

she fight more? Did

51:31

you lay her down right

51:34

next to Alexa and that's

51:36

where she died? Yes. Okay,

51:39

and did she try to

51:41

get back up and run

51:44

again? Yes. All right. Throughout

51:46

this part of the interview

51:49

Jennifer with a blanket over

51:51

her shoulders is using it

51:54

to cover her face. She's

51:56

hunched over in her chair

51:59

rocking back. And

52:01

fourth. Did she say

52:03

anything to you? Jennifer?

52:06

I know this is

52:08

hard. Did you recall

52:11

her standing? Let me

52:13

do it. Okay. Was

52:16

she crying? Yeah. Was

52:19

she crying? Yeah. Was

52:21

she saying, what was

52:24

she saying? No, no,

52:26

mom. I don't do

52:29

it. And

52:35

how many times do you

52:37

think he stabbed her? I

52:39

have no idea. I don't

52:41

want to know. Okay. Do

52:43

you remember how many times

52:45

he stabbed? Ashley? I don't

52:47

know. I'm sorry, Alexa? No.

52:49

I don't want to know

52:51

that either. Okay. Do you

52:53

remember when you actually was

52:55

stabbed the first time of

52:57

being thrown out of the

52:59

room? Where was she stabbed?

53:01

In the neck? In the

53:03

neck? I don't know. Jennifer

53:05

had used four different large

53:07

kitchen knives to slay everyone

53:09

in the trailer that morning.

53:11

She ended her daughter's lives

53:14

by stabbing them each multiple

53:16

times in the neck area,

53:18

effectively severing their wind pipes,

53:20

as well as important arteries.

53:22

Besides the neck wounds, though,

53:24

there were no defensive injuries.

53:26

These poor little girls couldn't

53:28

even begin to fight off

53:30

their mother. All they could

53:32

do was run and try

53:34

to find a hiding spot,

53:36

but even then Jennifer chased

53:38

them down. Oh, oh. Have

53:40

you used narcotics in the

53:42

past like law in your

53:44

history? Did you use any

53:46

kind of drugs? Nothing long-term

53:48

abuse of anything. What did

53:50

you use? I smoked pot

53:52

a few times? Did I

53:54

acid? How long ago did

53:56

you do acid? When I

53:58

was a teenager? And recently,

54:00

have you been using any

54:02

kind of street drugs? Nothing

54:04

whatsoever. Any kind of prescription

54:06

drugs? No. Okay. And have

54:08

you ever seen anybody about

54:10

any kind of problems in

54:12

your head? Have you talked to

54:14

anybody about it? Go see a doctor

54:16

or? I made a couple strengths when

54:18

I was a kid. That's because I was

54:21

getting molested and stopped. Mom

54:23

always stopped taking me and

54:25

shit. Okay. Did your mom

54:28

have some problems? Through interviewing

54:30

both Jennifer and her sister

54:32

Lauren detectives were beginning to

54:35

put the pieces together Jennifer had

54:37

been on a slow path to

54:39

mental ruin She had self-awareness

54:42

and she knew she was displaying

54:44

many of the same odd behaviors

54:47

her mother had shown as her

54:49

mental health declined This wasn't

54:51

her first rodeo Jennifer

54:53

knew how these things

54:56

eroded She felt herself

54:58

losing grip on reality,

55:00

and she had been

55:03

desperately trying to hide

55:05

it. At

55:24

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55:27

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55:29

life policy. It's about

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being their day and

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55:46

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56:42

Lauren Kukla loved her family. Her

56:44

biggest concern was making sure all

56:46

of the children were safe, well-fed,

56:49

and loved. To make this kind

56:51

of life a reality for her

56:53

two nieces, eight-year-old Alexa, and five-year-old

56:56

Ashley, this often meant cleaning up

56:58

her sister's messes. Her old sister

57:00

Jennifer was a functioning alcoholic, with

57:03

constant money problems. And so those

57:05

are the issues Lauren often helped

57:07

to address. These surface issues paled

57:10

in comparison to the turmoil happening

57:12

in Jennifer's mind. The Kukla family

57:14

was no stranger to mental illness,

57:17

which somewhat blinded Lauren to her

57:19

sister's worsening mental state. At the

57:21

same time Jennifer was trying to

57:24

hide her mental illness, she often

57:26

became nervous after saying what she

57:28

perceived to be the wrong thing,

57:30

which was basically anything that might

57:33

indicate she was losing her mind.

57:35

Lauren was so concerned with these

57:37

surface-level issues that Jennifer's feeble attempts

57:40

to hide what was actually going

57:42

on worked. Things got quietly worse

57:44

until February 4th, 2007, when Jennifer

57:47

murdered her two little girls. Apparently

57:49

Jennifer's paranoia and halluc- vaccinations reached

57:51

a peak that weekend. She told

57:54

psychiatrists that voices were telling her

57:56

that if she didn't kill her

57:58

children, they'd be kidnapped, sexually abused,

58:01

tortured, murdered, and then eaten. In

58:03

her distorted mind, Jennifer thought, splitting

58:05

their throats and ending it all

58:08

quickly was an act of compassion.

58:10

It was, from her perspective, the

58:12

only way she could save them.

58:15

Have you heard from the voices

58:17

since, uh, this happened? Well, like,

58:19

is that all morning after it

58:21

happened? I stayed in the house.

58:24

I was like, I couldn't leave.

58:26

I was like, I was sitting

58:28

there waiting for somebody to come

58:31

pick me up to take me

58:33

straight to hell. And it was

58:35

like, no big deal. It was

58:38

like, it was normal. So were

58:40

you there all day then? No

58:42

sir. Did you leave at any

58:45

point? No. I'd go to my

58:47

car to get to your busier

58:49

butts. I go right back right

58:52

back. I go right back. I

58:54

go right back. Why didn't you

58:56

get cold? Shut it. Why? I

58:59

don't know, it was like a

59:01

freaking way. Shut it and the

59:03

freaking damage would come faster or

59:06

some crap. Did you get cold?

59:08

Mm-hmm. Where were you at during

59:10

the day? Mostly sitting in the

59:13

couch, I think. Did you go

59:15

back in the bedroom at all?

59:17

And they, uh... A couple of

59:19

times, but you couldn't stay back

59:22

there? What'd you do? Stay up

59:24

there. Oh, and I went back

59:26

in the bathroom and had to

59:29

change my clothes and freaking. Get

59:31

all cleaned up for some fucked

59:33

up reason. Your water wasn't running.

59:36

Like, the water, like out of

59:38

the toilet, you know, the tank?

59:40

Yeah, it was, fuck, I don't

59:43

know. Okay, when you say you

59:45

got changed, what were you wearing

59:47

that night and then for? So

59:50

after killing her children and all

59:52

of the pets, Jennifer stayed in

59:54

the house with their dead bodies

59:57

all day. She paced around until

59:59

the voices apparently told her to

1:00:01

clean it up. With no running

1:00:04

water, though, she decided to take

1:00:06

the lid off the toilet tank

1:00:08

and use the water in there

1:00:11

to rinse off before replacing her

1:00:13

bloodied clothes with random things scavenged

1:00:15

from piles of When Lauren came

1:00:17

upon the carnage and saw her

1:00:20

sister dressed like a quote, Hobo,

1:00:22

she suddenly realized what had been

1:00:24

happening this whole time. At that

1:00:27

moment, Lauren didn't see her sister.

1:00:29

She saw her mother. Jennifer had

1:00:31

become the splitting image of her

1:00:34

mother. I mean, it was surprising,

1:00:36

but it was more interesting because

1:00:38

of what my mom would do.

1:00:41

I mean, she wouldn't do stuff

1:00:43

exactly like that. She never told

1:00:45

me. She would just tell me

1:00:48

about it happening. Right. I mean,

1:00:50

because my mom used to say,

1:00:52

I remember her telling me, Jenny

1:00:55

told me one time, that she,

1:00:57

my mom pulled over the car

1:00:59

right over, I remember we were

1:01:02

playing in your speedway, and she

1:01:04

said I'm going to drown her

1:01:06

in my piss, you know, and

1:01:08

she pulled, she pulled her pants

1:01:11

down. And she was going to

1:01:13

drown herself in the bed. They

1:01:15

were going to go out on

1:01:18

with multiple suicide attempts, you know

1:01:20

what I'm saying? Not in front

1:01:22

of me, but Jenny said, you

1:01:25

guys are lucky, you never had

1:01:27

it as bad as we did.

1:01:29

Yeah, I guess she chased Lizzie

1:01:32

around the backyard with a butcher

1:01:34

knife on time and like all

1:01:36

this stuff. I don't know. I

1:01:39

don't remember. I guess, or I

1:01:41

should have done it, I have

1:01:43

no idea. She told me about

1:01:46

this guy who was like a

1:01:48

healer and like you know like

1:01:50

just where you lost the house

1:01:53

when I grew up sick of

1:01:55

paying it for it. When did

1:01:57

your, uh, your dad go at

1:02:00

present? I was seven, 13 years

1:02:02

ago. He's still in prison? No,

1:02:04

no, three years. Does your natural

1:02:06

father? Oh, I'm sorry. I thought

1:02:09

you said the other day that

1:02:11

he was still in person. I

1:02:13

wish. What's the last thing in

1:02:16

your contact with him? Call me

1:02:18

that night. Sunday night. After you

1:02:20

heard? He lives, right. Me and

1:02:23

my husband are separated, like I

1:02:25

said. He lives three condos away

1:02:27

from my husband. Looking

1:02:30

back at all the strange things Jennifer

1:02:32

had said and done, made so much

1:02:34

more sense when compared to her mother's

1:02:37

decline. But hindsight is 2020. Let's rewind

1:02:39

back to when Jennifer became paranoid that

1:02:41

the two people who helped clean up

1:02:44

her trailer were going to call CPS

1:02:46

and turn her in. She said, I

1:02:48

mean, all she was, she talked, I

1:02:51

guess, briefly, that Miss Jessica girl about

1:02:53

how she, she liked, uh, Dean Coombs

1:02:55

books and stuff like that. different kinds

1:02:57

of like words, suspense, stuff like that.

1:03:00

And she said that later tonight she

1:03:02

said that she, you know, she didn't,

1:03:04

she wishes, she didn't say that because

1:03:07

she probably, those girls probably think, or

1:03:09

that girl probably thinks that she's not

1:03:11

for like in those kinds of books.

1:03:14

I mean, that's, I don't know if

1:03:16

that's anything but she just said that

1:03:18

she's like telling that, you know, I

1:03:20

just like to read those kind of

1:03:23

books, you know, they interest me on

1:03:25

a lot. And then she said. To

1:03:28

me, that she's starting not

1:03:30

to remember, but starting to

1:03:33

understand why she was drinking.

1:03:35

Why she would have had

1:03:37

a drinking problem. She said

1:03:39

she understands why she has

1:03:41

a drinking problem. For us,

1:03:44

the people on the outside,

1:03:46

it's not at all surprising

1:03:48

that Jennifer suffered from addiction.

1:03:50

But in Jennifer's mind, this

1:03:52

all stemmed from her hypnosis

1:03:54

as a teenager. But

1:03:57

it's in some way, hello, hi.

1:03:59

In some way, can that. to

1:04:01

the hypnotism. What is she thinking

1:04:03

of? She didn't disclose that information

1:04:05

to me. She said that she

1:04:07

told Al that she knew biker

1:04:09

cruise with like vigilance or you

1:04:11

know she didn't say vigilante but

1:04:13

she didn't say vigilante but she

1:04:15

didn't even feel like her I've

1:04:17

ever heard of her life so

1:04:19

like stuff like that she was

1:04:21

affiliated with them. She said that

1:04:23

Jim Real which I know was a bossid

1:04:25

that Jinko and was also the

1:04:27

owner her part owner of her TJ is

1:04:29

where she worked at a golf course for

1:04:32

a couple years, summer and stuff like that.

1:04:34

She said that he, she wasn't sure if

1:04:36

she ever really worked there, if she would

1:04:38

go there and if she was actually doing

1:04:40

the work that, you know, that they, she

1:04:42

told me she was like a bartender

1:04:44

and a cook and stuff like that,

1:04:47

but she doesn't remember actually doing it.

1:04:49

She's thinking that she was very watched

1:04:51

thinking she was doing that kind of

1:04:53

work when really she was doing that

1:04:55

kind of work when really she was

1:04:57

doing that kind of her life. She

1:04:59

asked me if I remembered her.

1:05:01

This was all Saturday? She

1:05:03

said, I think, Lauren, that I

1:05:05

used to kill people. And I

1:05:08

said, I really, I literally

1:05:10

wrote it off as her just being

1:05:12

either drunk or me not

1:05:14

recognizing it as an issue

1:05:16

like she was saying it

1:05:18

almost not in a joking

1:05:20

manner, but. Not to where it's like what

1:05:22

I think I used to kill people you need to you know help me

1:05:24

or something you know what she was like I think she used to kill

1:05:26

people I'm like Jenny, you know, what are you where are you

1:05:28

getting this one? She's like, I don't know I just

1:05:30

like I don't understand I don't remember I don't remember

1:05:32

I don't remember I don't remember I don't remember I

1:05:34

don't remember I don't understand I don't remember I don't

1:05:36

remember I don't understand I don't remember I don't remember

1:05:38

I don't understand I don't remember I don't remember I

1:05:40

don't remember I don't remember I don't remember I don't

1:05:43

remember I don't remember I don't remember I don't remember

1:05:45

I don't remember I don't remember I don't remember I

1:05:47

don't remember I don't remember I don't remember I don't

1:05:49

remember I don't remember I don't remember I She walked

1:05:51

around the camp, like you know what I'm saying, like

1:05:53

weird shit like that. Like science almost type

1:05:55

thing. Like a, like a, like a, like

1:05:57

a demonic something or other, but I

1:05:59

mean she. at that time I know that

1:06:01

she had had some experiences with drugs I

1:06:03

don't know what because I was nine years

1:06:06

younger but I know I mean my mom

1:06:08

busted pot in the house she found plants

1:06:10

and she like threw them against the wall

1:06:12

because they were all in the basement the

1:06:14

kids me and my old my aunt Lizzy

1:06:16

shared room upstairs for a while and then

1:06:19

when my dad started raping the kids like

1:06:21

right before Jenny turned like 10 or something

1:06:23

12 I don't know he made the bedrooms

1:06:25

downstairs downstairs for them. So it was almost

1:06:27

like their, like, I mean, they were, they

1:06:30

weren't finished, there was tile on the floor,

1:06:32

but it was like, they were drywall and

1:06:34

stuff like that, they had separate rooms. And,

1:06:36

um, Lizzie was in this room, Joey was

1:06:38

in the middle, and Jenny was at the

1:06:40

far end. And she used to come and

1:06:43

see Boys and stuff like that, and they

1:06:45

do, I mean, Mad Message, so when that

1:06:47

Lizzie is, Lizzie's fiancé now. I would go

1:06:49

downstairs and they'd be doing whatever I didn't

1:06:51

know and I wouldn't tell them out because

1:06:53

they would tell me to shut up and

1:06:56

tell me not to come downstairs all the

1:06:58

time because there was there was stuff under

1:07:00

this I think they were trying to keep

1:07:02

me away from whatever they were doing there

1:07:04

was stuff under the stairs there was big

1:07:07

spiders there was ghost whatever you know what

1:07:09

I'm saying and I literally I really believe

1:07:11

that they even if they weren't brainwashed that

1:07:13

they had done something to themselves you know

1:07:15

what I mean to where they thought that

1:07:17

this was real you know, or at least

1:07:20

maybe she lived with that. She used to

1:07:22

cut, like, she never had a long time,

1:07:24

she cut slayer into her arm. I was

1:07:26

like, is that, no, she wasn't having metal.

1:07:28

And she's like, I didn't even do this.

1:07:31

You know, and I can remember her, not

1:07:33

that type of, but I remember her cutting

1:07:35

her leg and cutting her arms and stuff

1:07:37

like that. And my mom would send her

1:07:39

to the counselor, but because my mom was

1:07:41

emotionally disturbed as well, She would take them

1:07:44

out because in her mind, counselors and stuff

1:07:46

like that were bad. You know, police were

1:07:48

good always, police were good. But counselors were

1:07:50

bad. Teachers were bad. They didn't know what

1:07:52

they were teaching you. They didn't know what

1:07:55

they, you know, all the stuff. And she

1:07:57

would say that they're gathering. information on us.

1:07:59

They want, they want us, they want us,

1:08:01

they want us, they want us. She would

1:08:03

say like we're like Christ's bloodline, she knew

1:08:05

Christ's descendants, we're you know, all this stuff.

1:08:08

And that's what I had to go around.

1:08:10

I mean, I got past that I'm working,

1:08:12

I mean, I worked through and I understand

1:08:14

that she had to go around. I mean,

1:08:16

I got past that I'm working, I mean,

1:08:19

I worked through and I understand, I understand,

1:08:21

I understand, I understand, I understand, I understand,

1:08:23

I understand, I understand, I understand, I understand,

1:08:25

I understand, I understand, I understand, I understand,

1:08:27

I understand, I understand, I understand, I understand,

1:08:29

I understand, I understand, I understand, I understand,

1:08:32

I understand, I understand, I understand, I understand,

1:08:34

I, I understand, I understand, I understand, I,

1:08:36

I understand, I understand, I understand, I, I

1:08:38

understand, I understand, I, I understand, I understand,

1:08:40

I, I I mean, my daughter was like,

1:08:43

how would you know that she was gonna,

1:08:45

you know, for anybody? And she's like, she

1:08:47

said that anything that Jenny could have said,

1:08:49

I mean, we were all right off my

1:08:51

back at the state that I am it.

1:08:53

So it did. You know what I'm saying?

1:08:56

And then she started saying, you know, it's

1:08:58

hard for me to get past my past

1:09:00

with my mom. Hard for me to even

1:09:02

say that I can't believe what she was

1:09:04

telling me about, knowing Keith Richards and the

1:09:07

Beatles and the Beatles and the Beatles and

1:09:09

whatever. because that was my mom and I

1:09:11

was conditioned my entire life to believe that

1:09:13

she was telling me the truth. So that's

1:09:15

my mom, you know. So when Jenny tells

1:09:17

me this stuff, I think, what if mom,

1:09:20

I know, I don't want to say that

1:09:22

I don't want to feel like you, or

1:09:24

you guys think that I'm crazy, but what

1:09:26

if, you know, maybe this is, you know,

1:09:28

my mom, not my mom telling her this

1:09:31

stuff, but like, maybe something my mom said

1:09:33

it was because. She knew something and then

1:09:35

she knew Jenny would know the same thing

1:09:37

or be able to do the same thing

1:09:39

or whatever. I don't know. You know what

1:09:41

I'm saying? And I thought it was some

1:09:44

kind of religious belief that they both shared

1:09:46

or something. I don't know. I can't problem.

1:09:48

But it's in some way, I love hi.

1:09:50

In some way connected. She knew

1:09:52

biker cruise that's like vigilantes or something.

1:09:55

I don't know, she didn't say vigilantes,

1:09:57

but so soon, and you look like

1:09:59

a crab ever heard of life, so.

1:10:01

like stuff like that, that she was

1:10:03

affiliating with them. She said that Jim

1:10:05

Real, which I know is a boss,

1:10:07

that Dijinko, and was also the owner

1:10:09

or part owner of TJ's where she

1:10:12

worked in a golf course for a

1:10:14

couple years and stuff like that. She

1:10:16

said that he, she wasn't sure if

1:10:18

she ever really worked there, if she

1:10:20

would go there, and if she was

1:10:22

actually doing the work, that, you know,

1:10:24

that they... She told me she was

1:10:26

like a bartender and a cook and

1:10:29

stuff like that. She doesn't remember actually

1:10:31

doing it. She's thinking that she was

1:10:33

very watched it thinking she was doing

1:10:35

that kind of work when really she

1:10:37

was doing something else. She said that

1:10:39

that was like a lapse in her

1:10:41

brain. She doesn't understand what happened at

1:10:43

that time in her life. She asked

1:10:46

me if I remember her. I really

1:10:48

I literally wrote it off as her

1:10:50

just being either drunk or me not

1:10:52

recognizing it as an issue like she

1:10:54

was saying it almost not in a

1:10:56

joking manner but not to where I

1:10:58

was like one I think I used

1:11:00

to kill people if you need to

1:11:03

help me or something like she was

1:11:05

like I think she used to kill

1:11:07

people I'm like Jenny you know where

1:11:09

are you where are you getting this

1:11:11

wrong? She's like I don't know I

1:11:13

just I She's like, I don't understand,

1:11:15

I don't remember, I don't remember. And

1:11:17

then she said, she said, like, I

1:11:20

don't remember that like three times, you

1:11:22

know, and then she said, I think

1:11:24

I ate them. And I said, Jenny,

1:11:26

you know, and I remember growing up,

1:11:28

like, she used to have like, I

1:11:30

know, like, I know it sounds stupid,

1:11:32

but she used to do like candle

1:11:34

things in her room and like, you

1:11:37

know what I'm saying, like, I know

1:11:39

that she. had had some experiences with

1:11:41

drugs I don't know what because I

1:11:43

was nine years younger but I know

1:11:45

I mean my mom busted pot in

1:11:47

the house she found plants and she

1:11:49

like threw them against the wall that

1:11:51

because they were all in the basement

1:11:54

the kids me and my old my

1:11:56

aunt Lizzy shared room upstairs for a

1:11:58

while and then when my dad started

1:12:00

raping the kids like right before Jenny

1:12:02

turned like 10 or something 12.

1:12:04

I don't know. He made the bedrooms

1:12:07

downstairs for them. So it was

1:12:09

almost like their whole like I mean they

1:12:11

were they weren't finished. There was tile

1:12:13

on the floor, but it was like

1:12:15

they were dry wall and stuff like

1:12:17

that. They had separate rooms and

1:12:19

Lizzy was in this room. Joey was

1:12:22

in the middle and Jenny was at

1:12:24

the far end. And she used to

1:12:26

come and see boys and stuff like

1:12:28

that. And they do, I mean,

1:12:30

Matt Bassett's the one that Lizzie

1:12:32

is, Lizzie's fiance now. And like,

1:12:34

I would go downstairs and they'd

1:12:36

be doing whatever. I didn't know

1:12:38

and I wouldn't tell them how

1:12:40

because they would tell me to

1:12:43

shut up and they'd tell me

1:12:45

to shut up and tell me to

1:12:47

come downstairs all the time because they'd

1:12:49

come downstairs all the time because

1:12:52

there was, you know what I'm saying.

1:12:54

done something to themselves, you know what I

1:12:56

mean, to where they thought that this was

1:12:58

real. You know, or at least maybe she lived

1:13:00

with that. She used to cut, like, she never

1:13:02

one time she cuts layer into her arm. I

1:13:04

was like, is that, you know, the band, she

1:13:07

wasn't having metal. And she's like, no. And she's

1:13:09

like, I didn't even do this, you know, and

1:13:11

I can remember her cutting her leg and

1:13:13

cutting her arms and stuff like that. And

1:13:15

my mom would send her to send her

1:13:17

to send her to the counselor to the

1:13:19

counselor to the counselor to the

1:13:21

counselor to the counselor. bipolar schizophrenia

1:13:24

or whatever, she would take them

1:13:26

out because in her mind,

1:13:28

counselors and stuff like that were

1:13:30

bad, you know, police were good always,

1:13:32

police were good, but counselors were bad,

1:13:35

teachers were bad. They didn't know what they were teaching

1:13:37

you, they didn't know what they, you know, all this stuff. And

1:13:39

she would say that they're gathering information on us. They want us,

1:13:41

they want us, they want us. She would say like, we're like

1:13:43

Christ's bloodline, she knew Christ's descendants, we're, you know, all this stuff.

1:13:45

And that's what I had to go around. I mean, I got

1:13:48

past that I'm working, I mean, I work through and I understand

1:13:50

that she had illness, but I understand that she had illness, but

1:13:52

I'm really bad on my heart, I'm really bad on my

1:13:54

heart, growing up, growing up, growing up with my heart, growing

1:13:56

up with my mom, the way, the way, the way, the way that she was,

1:13:58

the way that she was, the way that she was, used to

1:14:00

that kind of. I was

1:14:03

used to it and I'd

1:14:05

never thought that she would

1:14:07

hurt anybody because my mom

1:14:09

never threatened. I didn't alarm

1:14:11

you because you've been exposed

1:14:13

to it so long. Right,

1:14:16

it didn't at all. And

1:14:18

I mean, when working through

1:14:20

that, but at the same

1:14:22

time, I mean, when I

1:14:24

talked to her, I was

1:14:26

like, how would you know

1:14:28

that she was gonna, you

1:14:31

know, for anybody? And she

1:14:33

was like, you know, you

1:14:35

know, for anybody. And then

1:14:37

she started saying, you know,

1:14:39

you know, you know, hard

1:14:41

for me to even say

1:14:44

that I can't believe what

1:14:46

she was telling me about

1:14:48

knowing Keith Richards and the

1:14:50

Beatles and whatever because that

1:14:52

was my mom and I

1:14:54

was conditioned my entire life

1:14:57

to believe that she was

1:14:59

telling me the truth. So

1:15:01

when Jenny tells me this

1:15:03

stuff I think what if

1:15:05

mom I don't want to

1:15:07

say that I'm I don't

1:15:10

want to feel like you

1:15:12

or you guys think that

1:15:14

I'm crazy but what if

1:15:16

you know maybe this is

1:15:18

you know my mom not

1:15:20

my mom telling her this

1:15:23

stuff but like Maybe something

1:15:25

my mom said was true.

1:15:27

Maybe, you know, we are,

1:15:29

she was special or Jenny

1:15:31

is special. That's why she

1:15:33

tried to protect her before,

1:15:36

you know, and that's why

1:15:38

my mom had to be

1:15:40

put on meth was because

1:15:42

she knew something and then

1:15:44

she knew Jenny would know

1:15:46

the same thing or be

1:15:48

able to do the same

1:15:51

thing or whatever. I don't

1:15:53

know. You know what I'm

1:15:55

saying? And Jennifer's life was

1:15:57

a perfect storm. And... She

1:15:59

knew it. What else do

1:16:01

you need now? Anything else

1:16:04

you can think of to,

1:16:06

about the sole incident? I

1:16:08

never should have had kids.

1:16:10

So I looked at my

1:16:12

hands and said, well, she

1:16:14

staked off a mixture of

1:16:17

things I don't have kids.

1:16:19

It is. Hearing these final

1:16:21

words is haunting her admission.

1:16:23

I should have never had

1:16:25

kids. It's not just a

1:16:27

regret, it's the very moment

1:16:30

of Jennifer's realization about the

1:16:32

generational cycle of trauma and

1:16:34

mental illness. She saw and

1:16:36

experienced the fallout of her

1:16:38

own mother's struggle, lived through

1:16:40

it, and yet found herself

1:16:43

walking down a similar path,

1:16:45

trapped by the very symptoms

1:16:47

she once feared. Jennifer was

1:16:49

raised by someone incapable of

1:16:51

loving, protecting and caring for

1:16:53

her in the way every

1:16:56

child deserves. This was a

1:16:58

parent who not only failed

1:17:00

to protect but often directly

1:17:02

exposed them to traumatic experiences.

1:17:04

After living through that trauma,

1:17:06

this same parent deterred her

1:17:09

children from seeking mental health

1:17:11

services. was set up to

1:17:13

fail from the very start.

1:17:15

In September of 2007, about

1:17:17

seven months after the tragic

1:17:19

murders, 30-year-old Jennifer Kukla went

1:17:21

to trial for two counts

1:17:24

of first-degree murder. Three separate

1:17:26

psychologists testified on her behalf,

1:17:28

stating that she was legally

1:17:30

insane at the time of

1:17:32

the killings and therefore not

1:17:34

criminally responsible. They felt she

1:17:37

should be found guilty by

1:17:39

reason of insanity. and placed

1:17:41

in a psychiatric facility. The

1:17:43

jury, though, didn't buy it.

1:17:45

They cited the feeble attempt

1:17:47

at suicide, the inconsistencies in

1:17:50

Jennifer's police interview compared to

1:17:52

her psych interviews, and even

1:17:54

witnessed testimony from her employer

1:17:56

who remembered Jennifer saying she

1:17:58

could just kill her kids

1:18:00

during a conversation about being

1:18:03

late for work because of

1:18:05

them. Jennifer had been suffering

1:18:07

an acute psychotic that day,

1:18:09

under Michigan law, if that

1:18:11

episode is triggered by drinking

1:18:13

alcohol, it's not a defense.

1:18:16

The jury rendered a guilty

1:18:18

verdict while also acknowledging the

1:18:20

obvious mental illness. She was

1:18:22

sentenced to life in prison

1:18:24

without the possibility of parole,

1:18:26

but with the promise that

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she would receive at least

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some mental health care. The

1:18:33

police officers who responded to

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the gruesome scene will never

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get the image out of

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their heads. Jennifer asked for

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her brain to be erased.

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And I'm sure those officers

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thing. They remember seeing the

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two little girls laying side

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by side in their small

1:18:54

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their books, their artwork, and

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even photos of them smiling

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with their mom. One deputy

1:19:03

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1:19:20

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All right, I'll tell you one little thing. The show

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