Dave and Chris discuss the value in learning to take the long way instead of the shortcut. They are then joined by one of the great modern explorers, among other endeavors, Erling Kagge, who talks with them about his mindset and how anyone can take risks and challenge themselves—even in the face of extreme danger. The episode ends with a surprise MOIF.

Hosts: Dave Chang and Chris YingGuest: Erling KaggeVideo/Audio Producer: Felipe GuilherminoMajordomo Media Producers: Kelsey Rearden and David MeyerEditor: Stefano SanchezLearn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices