0:00

Hello, hello, David here. We

0:02

have a guest today and

0:04

they is somebody that you

0:06

may not have heard of.

0:08

He's Norwegian, number one. Number

0:10

two, I don't know how

0:12

many people in their lives

0:14

have actually completed it as

0:16

much as this man has.

0:18

And three, I've always said

0:20

Alex Itala might be the

0:22

most interesting man in the

0:24

world. But I feel like

0:27

today's guest may have supplanted

0:29

him, the great chef from

0:31

Brazil, and his name, if

0:33

I may butcher it, Arling

0:35

Kaga. They were saying is

0:37

Arling Kaga. Kaga. Kaga. And

0:39

we'll tell a little bit

0:41

more about him later, but

0:43

this guy has done a

0:45

little bit everything. And we

0:47

have a mutual friend and...

0:49

He's got a book out

0:52

that's translated in English about

0:54

his North Pole expedition that

0:56

he walked. He's done the

0:58

sort of like the triple

1:00

slam of North Pole South

1:02

Pole Mount Everest. And we're

1:04

going to talk to him

1:06

about becoming an explorer and

1:08

adventure, but as Chris and

1:10

I dug a little bit

1:12

deeper, we felt that We

1:14

may have stumbled upon somebody

1:17

that could become a real

1:19

major demo mayor The major

1:21

demo of major dumbowing. Yeah,

1:23

he's literally the major demo

1:25

of major demoing If that

1:27

makes no sense. Well, hopefully

1:29

well in a second And

1:31

we're going to start off

1:33

with a little bit of

1:35

amuseings On doing things the

1:37

long way inspired by Arling

1:39

then we're going to get

1:42

into the interview with Arling

1:44

and then we're going to

1:46

do a surprise moiff Which

1:48

they said will be really

1:50

interesting Chris. You don't even

1:52

know what I have no

1:54

idea what we're talking about

1:56

But they said it would

1:58

be very interesting, yes. All

2:00

right, stay tuned. This episode

2:02

is brought to by Whole

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2:38

Welcome to the Dave Chang

2:40

Show, part of the Ringer Podcast

2:43

Network, presented by Major Dome Media.

2:45

Thank you, Yola Tingo, as always.

2:47

As I said in the intro,

2:49

intro, we have Arling Kaga, we

2:51

have a mutual friend, Jen,

2:53

who lives in Norway, and she

2:55

listens to the pod, and she had

2:58

mentioned, I think you should have him

3:00

on your podcast. It may not seem

3:02

like a logical fit, but now I

3:04

understand why Jen is so smart, and

3:06

we are not. Because Arling,

3:09

quite the interesting man, and I

3:11

don't know how we're going to

3:13

get into it all, but I highly

3:15

encourage you guys, if you have

3:18

not read his books, to just

3:20

go on the internet and read

3:22

some of the fabulous things

3:24

he's done. New York Times has

3:26

pretty much covered a lot of it,

3:29

and you can go down the YouTube

3:31

rabbit hole, and yeah, this man

3:33

has lived quite the life. So we're

3:35

on it to have him. He's one of

3:38

those guys who at the very least

3:40

you should just read his Wikipedia entry

3:42

because you're just gonna be like did

3:44

they just mashed together seven different people's

3:46

Wikipedia entries? Because no human should have

3:48

accomplished this many things in one week.

3:51

Okay, okay. Let's just pipe them up

3:53

a little bit before we get into

3:55

the rambling rambling about trying to do

3:57

things a long way. Born in Oslo 1963 1963.

4:00

people can actually put in their

4:02

bio of who and what they are. I

4:04

think this guy's got more professions

4:06

than anybody, but done well. He's not

4:08

a master of none. He's like a master

4:11

of all. Yeah. So just really quick, what

4:13

you said earlier, that's really an

4:15

interesting distinction, I think, when it comes

4:17

to major domain, because I think we

4:20

said he's done a lot of, a

4:22

little bit of a lot of things,

4:24

when in fact he's done like a

4:26

lot on a few things, like a

4:28

lot. And again, before I go into

4:31

this bio, and before we get into

4:33

why I do things a long way,

4:35

can you explain quickly again to those

4:37

that aren't familiar with major demoing?

4:39

What are we talking about? Yeah,

4:41

so the idea of major demoing

4:44

is selecting something. And I think

4:46

part of this discussion is going

4:48

to be, it could literally be

4:50

anything. It doesn't matter. And it

4:52

is rejecting the sort of buffet approach

4:54

to life. I'm just going to taste

4:56

this here. and move on and get

4:58

a little bit of this and a

5:00

little bit of that and a little

5:02

bit of this and move on. It

5:04

is diving deep into something so deep

5:07

that you can, you're not an ex,

5:09

you're not a, you're not a

5:11

professional, you're not a master, but

5:13

you can command a little bit

5:15

of respect from those masters. And

5:18

doing things that maybe the algorithm

5:20

won't suggest, you do, all right?

5:22

It's going off the beaten path, doing

5:24

things in somewhat of an analog way,

5:26

and you know, the head of house

5:28

that tells you what to do. That

5:31

is one of the reasons why we

5:33

named it Major Domo. And if

5:35

you go back a few episodes,

5:37

that's sort of where we

5:39

came up with the idea

5:42

of exploring things in culture

5:44

and basically giving people an

5:46

insight as to maybe this

5:48

is something I want to do,

5:50

right? And Erling basically has

5:53

the lowest... barrier of entry thing to

5:55

do and we'll get into that in

5:57

a second. So stay tuned for that.

5:59

It's literally something that not everybody can

6:01

do, but like 99.9% of

6:04

the world can do. Going

6:06

back to his bio, polar

6:08

explorer, he is also just

6:11

an adventurer, sort of an

6:13

urban spelunker, a lawyer, a

6:15

publisher, a writer, an avid

6:18

like top, top tier art

6:20

collector, father. What else? Sailor,

6:22

philosopher? Yeah, he got a

6:25

degree in moral philosophy from

6:27

Cambridge. Yeah, that's how you

6:29

know you're smart. You're getting

6:32

a degree in something that

6:34

nobody wants to major in.

6:36

But like the headline here

6:39

and we should move into

6:41

your abusing's. If you're like,

6:43

okay, okay, whatever. He's done

6:46

a little bit of everything.

6:48

He has completed the Explorer's

6:50

Grand Slam. Which is that?

6:53

an adventure goal achieved by,

6:55

let's see here, 12 people

6:57

in history. He has reached

7:00

the north and south pole,

7:02

specifically from an outer coastliner

7:04

shore, meaning like the longest

7:07

possible way to get there.

7:09

He achieved it without the

7:11

use of dogs or mechanical

7:14

devices, as well as climbing

7:16

the seven tallest summits on

7:18

earth, including Everest and Kilmajara,

7:20

and all of them. So

7:23

like, come on, man. He's

7:25

done. He's done all of

7:27

them. It's insane. And for

7:30

those that are like, oh,

7:32

I just want food. We're

7:34

going to talk about food.

7:37

We're going to talk about

7:39

food in ways that you

7:41

never thought you hear. Yes.

7:44

So let's get in there.

7:46

He's going to join us

7:48

in a little bit. And

7:51

for those long-time listeners, always

7:53

appreciative of all the support.

7:55

You know the the idea

7:58

of I don't know Something

8:00

that I've really tried to

8:03

embrace is one of the reasons

8:05

why the Momofuku Instagram handle

8:07

and Twitter handle or

8:10

whatever it is now,

8:12

is Momo Long play. It

8:14

had been ingrained in me,

8:16

etched in my psyche from an

8:18

early age to sort of always

8:21

go after the hardest thing. Why?

8:23

I don't know. I don't even know

8:25

if that's genetic. I have

8:27

no idea. But for me.

8:30

compared to my brothers and my

8:32

sister, I don't know

8:34

why, but I've always gravitated

8:36

towards the hardest thing, even

8:39

when I am woefully inadequate

8:41

at any kind of those challenges.

8:44

And we're gonna tie this

8:46

into food right now because we

8:48

could, you know, talk nonsensical

8:50

mumbo-bo-jumbo about, you know,

8:53

doing things the hard way

8:55

or... embracing the idea of

8:57

range like David Epstein's great book.

8:59

He's been on this podcast

9:02

as well. But when it

9:04

comes to the food to

9:06

some degree, not necessarily restaurants,

9:08

which we could talk about. In fact,

9:10

you know, one of my

9:12

favorite memories of all time,

9:14

food-wise, was at Andenie's, Lewis

9:17

Andenie's restaurant, the great Mughuritz,

9:19

two mission star in the

9:21

Basque region. just about 30

9:23

minutes outside saying Sebastian one

9:25

of the most important chefs

9:28

one of the most important

9:30

restaurants and one of the

9:32

most at times polarizing intentionally

9:34

so when I sat down for my first

9:36

meal there in like 2007 they put down

9:39

two cards and you open it up

9:41

one guard said 120 minutes of

9:43

pain another one said could be 120

9:45

minutes of pleasure and I love

9:47

that right it's it you can't really

9:49

appreciate What is good until

9:52

you've earned it to something?

9:54

And I think maybe at a

9:56

later date we'll talk about

9:58

avant-garde cook. and American sort

10:01

of, I would say the

10:03

critics of America not embracing

10:05

modern cooking, which is, I

10:07

wouldn't say suffering, but it

10:09

pushes you out of your

10:11

comfort zone. But for today,

10:13

we're gonna sort of keep

10:15

this idea of food and

10:18

doing things the long way

10:20

into some of that as

10:22

even maybe even major demoing.

10:24

In the idea of, I

10:26

wouldn't say suffering, but doing

10:28

things a long way, right?

10:30

It's maybe you plant your

10:32

own. vegetable garden, your own

10:34

herb garden. Maybe, you know,

10:36

you have chickens now for

10:39

reasons that we've already spoken

10:41

about on this podcast. Maybe

10:43

you're gonna make your own

10:45

beer at home, maybe you're

10:47

gonna make chocolate. I don't

10:49

know, but choose something in

10:51

the process of what you

10:53

eat and sort of take

10:55

a look. and realize just

10:57

how sort of sanitized and

10:59

how efficient it's become for

11:02

you to eat whatever it

11:04

is that you want, right?

11:06

Like it's amazing. I'll just

11:08

stick to chocolate. One of

11:10

the most amazing culinary creations.

11:12

It literally could be a

11:14

proof of alien technology. It's

11:16

so fucking insane. For those

11:18

that don't know, it just

11:20

doesn't make any sense, right?

11:23

How amazing chocolate production is

11:25

and how it is produced.

11:28

I don't think my kids today

11:30

have any idea how much work

11:32

went into that chocolate, right? Or

11:34

the history in Mexico. It just

11:37

doesn't even register. Maybe it will

11:39

never register. But if we lived

11:41

in a climate where you could

11:43

grow cocoa beans, maybe it's something

11:45

that you would do and realize

11:47

how this is really god damn

11:49

hard. This is extremely difficult to

11:51

produce. And, you know, it's just

11:53

something that we've, again. sanitize that

11:55

of our life and it's just

11:57

right there and it's all around

11:59

us coffee I mean,

12:01

that is not an easy thing to

12:03

do, Chris. Everything we eat.

12:05

Yeah, every single thing that

12:07

we eat, even raw ingredients,

12:10

coffee, yes, chocolate, yes, it takes

12:12

so much process and work to

12:14

get it to a point where

12:16

it's in a piece of foil

12:18

and you unwrap it and you

12:20

eat it late at night, or

12:22

you pop it into your coffee

12:24

maker in the morning. You know,

12:26

I always use this example of

12:28

like, you said eggs. Like yes,

12:31

they are very expensive right now,

12:33

but when I think about

12:35

an egg and what it

12:37

takes to get a dozen of

12:39

them into a carton that I

12:41

can used to be able to

12:44

buy for you know three four

12:46

dollars It's remarkable.

12:48

It's insane which is why

12:50

we're going to get to

12:52

Erling's low lowest entry level

12:55

activity analog activity, but

12:57

I would think one of

12:59

the easiest things

13:02

you could do to

13:04

sort of understand what

13:07

we're talking about food

13:09

wise would be hunting

13:12

you know yeah yeah I

13:14

cannot stress enough

13:16

if people actually

13:19

had to be part

13:21

of the process of

13:23

slaughtering in a humane

13:26

way a pig or chicken

13:28

cows I don't

13:30

know what would happen. And I'm

13:33

not trying to, I'm not anti

13:35

any of this. I'm just saying

13:37

one of those things is

13:39

that you approach eating meat

13:41

in a completely different way.

13:44

The boundaries that you thought

13:46

were, existed before, are now

13:48

pushed out in ways that

13:51

you never thought was possible.

13:53

And again, I'm not saying

13:55

that people will do that. Again,

13:57

like, where do you sign up?

14:00

Yeah, yeah, I mean, you don't,

14:02

you know, it's not something that's

14:04

easy to do, I get it.

14:06

But killing an animal for hunting,

14:09

again, whether you're pro, I don't

14:11

understand. If you're, you can't really

14:13

be anti hunting if you're going

14:15

to eat meat in general. That's

14:18

just my personal belief. And, you

14:20

know, taking a life, which is

14:22

what you're doing when you consume

14:25

meat that's in a plastic wrapped,

14:27

you know, thing. I

14:30

think it changes your whole understanding

14:32

of everything, quite frankly. And it

14:34

doesn't have to be hunting or

14:36

shooting a bird. I mean, maybe

14:38

you just want to make butter.

14:40

You know, fucking hard it is

14:42

to make butter by hand. Yeah,

14:44

I do. play Devil's Advocate, but

14:47

you just said something about hunting

14:49

that I had never really thought

14:51

about, which was if you eat

14:53

meat, how can you be anti-hunting?

14:55

And I was like, oh, interesting.

14:57

I feel like some people would

14:59

say, well, that's just recreational killing

15:02

as opposed to, you know, you

15:04

need to kill the animals for

15:06

meat. Every time you eat meat,

15:08

that is recreational killing, because you

15:10

don't need to eat that meat.

15:12

Every single time, it's recreational killing.

15:14

My question is, I just want

15:17

to push back a devil's advocate

15:19

here. We're a podcast of many

15:21

contradictions. We're people of many contradictions.

15:23

I'm pretty sure people dug the

15:25

tape up they would hear you

15:27

or I being like, why the

15:29

fuck would I ever make my

15:31

own chocolate? Why would I do

15:34

that? You know, like explain that

15:36

to people who are listening, being

15:38

like, what are you guys talking

15:40

about? You guys told me never

15:42

to take the hard way. Well,

15:44

it's always funny because being a

15:46

walking contradiction, I've always known that,

15:49

but isn't that the beauty of

15:51

humanity to be able to be

15:53

multiple things that are potentially opposing?

15:55

to each other. So I think

15:57

the world would be a terribly

15:59

boring place. if it was logical,

16:01

consistent across the

16:04

board. So yes, I can

16:06

make fun of chocolate making

16:08

or people that endeavor

16:10

to do that, right? At the same

16:13

time, I can opine, hey, I

16:15

can also see the beauty and

16:17

the life cultural education

16:19

of making chocolate.

16:22

Both things can be true

16:24

and I can hold those. For

16:26

sure. And I think it's like.

16:29

I'm wondering, you know, if I were to

16:31

say, what would be the point, Dave, if

16:33

I made chocolate, my chocolate's not

16:35

going to be good, why

16:37

shouldn't I just buy it at

16:39

the store? But I think you're

16:41

absolutely right. I don't know. I've not

16:44

made it, but I am 100,

16:46

100% sure that if I went

16:48

through the process of harvesting, fermenting,

16:50

processing my own chocolate, I would

16:52

have become a better person. You

16:54

know what, raise your own herbs

16:56

at the window, so, right?

16:58

It doesn't have to

17:00

be something like monumental.

17:03

And I mean, I want to

17:05

add to this whole idea of

17:07

like us doing shit now. I

17:09

think a lot of it is

17:12

this past year, again, five

17:14

years post-pandemic.

17:16

I think that now as I get

17:18

older, you know, we've discussed

17:21

this in the past. I'm

17:23

a bit frightened for the

17:25

future of, you know, I won't

17:27

say the buzzwords of AI.

17:30

That's been around forever because

17:32

in some sense, it's just

17:34

like distilling what is the

17:36

mean of like cultural decisions and

17:38

choices, right? So like you

17:40

could see that in restaurants,

17:43

you could see that in

17:45

culture pretty easily. But as it

17:47

gets better, I'm just a

17:49

little bit worried that there's

17:51

nothing physically... difficult

17:53

to do. I'll give you an example of something that I'm

17:55

going to be major demoing and I used to have a

17:58

record player, I used to play it all the time. As

18:00

I've gotten older

18:03

and kids no, you

18:05

know, and I

18:07

decided we have two

18:10

TVs in our house

18:12

I'm gonna take One

18:15

of the TVs out

18:17

and my son lost

18:20

his marbles No,

18:22

like it was a

18:25

death in the family

18:28

As an example, like I just

18:30

feel like you gotta choose your

18:32

battles and your moments of trying

18:35

to do things in an ass

18:37

backwards way, basically, right? Doing

18:39

a long way entails some kind

18:42

of suffering or some kind

18:44

of annoyance, right? That you

18:46

have to physically do something

18:48

that is in modern times no

18:50

longer necessary to do, right?

18:52

Mm-hmm. We just listed a

18:54

bunch of things, basically everything

18:57

in food, but I just

18:59

want to give you an

19:01

example of something that, like

19:03

we're intentionally trying to do.

19:05

We're not getting rid of TVs,

19:07

I fucking love TV. But, you

19:10

know, and a place where, you know,

19:12

we can sit down, we're going to

19:14

read, you know, I'm going to buy like

19:16

nice, vintage, you know, amps

19:18

and stereo and... a turntable

19:21

that's not automatic. Like

19:23

things that are not, not

19:25

vintage because they're vintage,

19:27

because they're not modern

19:30

and there's no modern

19:32

accessories. There's no remote

19:35

control. You know, like, I, I,

19:37

if the record player is finished,

19:39

you like, I have to be

19:41

mindful to pick up the needle.

19:43

You know, things like that. You

19:45

know, things like that. You know. The

19:48

mere fact I think just

19:50

think about playing a record

19:52

or even like Anything that

19:55

is not digital pain

19:57

in the fucking ass Yeah, I mean

19:59

I with record specifically, it's

20:01

interesting what you're talking

20:03

about because we're so

20:05

used to the modern

20:08

digital music world where it's like, I'm to listen to

20:10

this song and then I want to listen to something

20:12

completely different. I'm to listen to a different artist after

20:14

that and a different artist after that. If you want

20:16

to do that, you've got to change records, or you

20:18

just need to sit and sort of listen to a

20:20

complete album. Who listens to a complete album anymore? Not

20:23

only am I going to buy

20:25

a manual record player, you

20:27

know what I'm going to buy? A CD player. These

20:32

are all things I used to have, right?

20:34

But as you get older, I just was

20:37

like, oh, I have this now. I don't

20:39

need this stuff. I got I missed

20:41

that process of

20:44

having to listen

20:46

to something, getting

20:48

to know different songs in an album

20:50

that you didn't necessarily care too

20:53

much about and that physical, tangible, analog

20:55

thing of doing so. And

20:57

listen, I don't want us to

20:59

sound like audio bros, but I want

21:01

to do this specifically as a moment

21:03

to teach my son, like, oh,

21:05

this is actually like. Even

21:08

if it doesn't give a shit, just the

21:10

physical fact of being able to do something

21:12

that you don't need to do

21:14

anymore. Yeah. And I'm not

21:17

doing it because of the fidelity of the sound.

21:19

I mean, it's fine, whatever. I'm

21:21

doing it because it sucks to do. It

21:24

fucking sucks. Yeah,

21:28

I hear you, man. I I I

21:30

saw I'm sure you saw to our

21:32

old pal Jerry salts a couple of

21:34

months ago went to the Prado Museum

21:36

in Madrid and sort of took in

21:38

all of the sort of classic pieces

21:40

there. And just from the way Jerry

21:42

was talking about it, it was such

21:44

a transformative experience. I'm sure he has

21:47

seen these paintings a billion times. I'm

21:49

sure you've seen images of these

21:51

paintings a trillion times, but like

21:53

going and standing before them and being in

21:55

their presence. Like that to me is

21:57

sort of what you're talking about, which is

21:59

there's a difference. between sort of, I

22:01

can tell my phone to play a

22:04

song versus I'm gonna make the

22:06

effort to go and hear

22:08

this in some, some version

22:10

of like an original form.

22:12

It's really interesting. I

22:15

mean, Arling's gonna be

22:17

on in a second and one

22:19

of the things he, I would

22:21

say is a cornerstone of his

22:23

philosophy because he

22:25

is a philosopher too. Is

22:28

the intentional. removal of

22:30

things that are fast

22:32

in his life. Finding

22:34

the things that are, you

22:37

know, that you can choose to

22:39

actually make it

22:41

slow because we're headed

22:43

towards a time where

22:45

everything is so

22:47

god damn efficient and

22:50

so good, right? Like, as

22:52

an example, I

22:54

don't know how to spell

22:56

a word anymore. Zero idea.

22:59

Yeah, you know, like these are these are

23:01

skills that you my ancestors

23:03

really probably needed in the

23:05

past and now they're just

23:07

like, you know, decaying into

23:09

nothing. And I think it's these are

23:11

the little things that Arling

23:14

will find out when we talk to

23:16

him is, you know, take the time out,

23:18

take a walk. And that's his big

23:20

secret. He walks a lot. No

23:22

surprise. Walk both North and South

23:25

Pole. We gotta ask him too

23:27

like how the how the F

23:29

you walked. Mount Everest. Don't understand

23:31

that. But it's sort of one is

23:33

like, well, it is cornerstone

23:35

is the is to ask yourself, why

23:37

is it fast? And is there something

23:40

to be gained from doing

23:42

it the hard, dumb, slow way? Yeah, and

23:44

yeah, I like that a lot. He's he

23:46

talks in his book about being,

23:48

I'll never be able to

23:50

pronounce this word, whatever it

23:52

is, but he's driven by

23:54

this sort of Evangelist, which

23:56

is like want, it's like

23:59

adventure lust. And I think it's

24:01

like a curiosity that you can't

24:03

satisfy by just looking up the

24:05

answer. I've used this as an

24:07

example all the time. And for

24:10

those that are cooks or chefs,

24:12

it's when somebody comes up with

24:14

their first menu or they're working

24:16

on a dish, like maybe it's

24:18

a first soup chef, they're coming

24:20

up with a dish. You see

24:23

this time and time again, they

24:25

have an idea, they sketch it,

24:27

the potential recipe, they write everything

24:29

out. And they immediately tried to

24:31

make. the perfect dish right they

24:34

they they tried to edit in

24:36

their heads because they don't want

24:38

to go through all the previous

24:40

iterations right they immediately want to

24:42

go to the end goal right

24:44

and they almost have like culinary

24:47

block because they they're just so

24:49

overwhelmed with all the choice that

24:51

they don't really get anywhere because

24:53

all they want to do is

24:55

get to the end goal of

24:58

having this perfect dish because that's

25:00

just how they think and I

25:02

think we all think And I

25:04

know that the best thing for

25:06

this person to do is just

25:08

to fuck it up, to make

25:11

mistakes, and just say, like, if

25:13

this takes you 50 times to

25:15

get to what you think is

25:17

the end goal, I guarantee you,

25:19

by the time you get to

25:22

the end of that goal, your

25:24

end of that dish in the

25:26

physical manifestation of the reality is

25:28

going to be nothing like what

25:30

you envision it to be. That's

25:32

what I can internalize as what

25:35

he talks about is like rejecting

25:37

things that are fast. So without

25:39

further due, we have the real

25:41

international man of mystery himself. We're

25:43

going to get started here, but

25:45

we have a mutual friend and

25:48

she she messes me and she

25:50

said, I got a good friend,

25:52

he's got a book out and

25:54

you need to have them on

25:56

your podcast. And it took me

25:59

a while to... put two and

26:01

two together because our mutual friend

26:03

is very smart and but I

26:05

get why she wanted to do

26:07

that and your book is pretty

26:09

fascinating. I've been going down this

26:12

rabbit hole of being an explorer

26:14

or adventurer since then. My YouTube

26:16

algorithm now is only expeditions. We'll

26:18

see one day if I'll do

26:20

it. But we've been screwing around

26:23

with this idea of. major dumbing

26:25

right it's like the idea of

26:27

like we're telling you what's good

26:29

but you know Chris and I

26:31

have been thinking that in 2025

26:33

moving forward and it's something that

26:36

I think runs and aligns parallel

26:38

to many of the things that

26:40

you hold here maybe the one

26:42

of the foundational philosophies for you

26:44

which is sort of rejecting the

26:47

fast embracing the slow the arduous

26:49

you know suffering a little bit

26:51

and you know embracing the analog

26:53

world a little bit and taking

26:55

the time to do that And

26:57

there's so many things in life

27:00

right now where I feel like,

27:02

do the thing that you don't,

27:04

you're supposed to, like, maybe not

27:06

do, right? And, you know, for

27:08

me, you know, it's like, I'm

27:10

trying a bunch of things. Well,

27:13

currently I had shoulder surgery, so

27:15

it's been difficult, but I was

27:17

walking and running like, like, so

27:19

much, right, in the morning. I

27:21

was trying to get Chris to

27:24

run a marathon with me. I

27:26

don't know if that's going to

27:28

happen. But things that again, I

27:30

would never do. And we thought

27:32

you might be the perfect person

27:34

to sort of just explain to

27:37

our audience how do you become

27:39

an adventure? How do you become

27:41

an explorer? But which, you know,

27:43

I know you're going to explain

27:45

to everybody, but it dawned on

27:48

us that that really just scratches

27:50

the surface of what you could

27:52

potentially offer. Because in some ways,

27:54

everything that you've done, you are

27:56

like the major demo of major

27:58

demos. Oh, like life. You know,

28:01

it's, yeah, it's, it's, it's, we're

28:03

not on air, so I can

28:05

say this card on Norwegian saying,

28:07

a man who has swallowed a

28:09

coconut needs. to have a big

28:12

belief in his own our soul.

28:14

We are, we are on the

28:16

air. This is life. This is

28:18

all life. I'm so happy. I'm

28:20

so happy. I'm so happy. I

28:22

thought that we won't march because

28:25

that's the best float ever. But

28:27

yeah, I think that you represent

28:29

so much of what we're trying

28:31

to aspire to. especially in these

28:33

in sort of more recent times

28:35

in kind of rejecting the sort

28:38

of dabbling lifestyle the sort of

28:40

very fast very social media just

28:42

get a taste and move on

28:44

of it all and You know,

28:46

we gave your vial a little

28:49

bit of the introduction to this,

28:51

but essentially you're so well known

28:53

for doing these very specific things.

28:55

Completing the sort of adventurers, Grand

28:57

Slam, you know, making it to

28:59

the North Pole, unassisted by dogs

29:02

or mechanical devices. But you said

29:04

something really interesting. I think this

29:06

is what Dave is sort of

29:08

getting at here. It didn't even

29:10

have to be the North Pole.

29:13

You just wanted to do something

29:15

extreme. Yeah, that's true. I think

29:17

you know it's imperious in life,

29:19

especially in the youth, you just

29:21

want to break free, you don't

29:23

want to kind of follow the

29:26

current, you want to do something

29:28

totally different. And as I said,

29:30

I want to do something extreme.

29:32

And I think that's, you know,

29:34

it's a common thought. But as

29:37

a Norwegian, if I want to

29:39

do something extreme and wanted to

29:41

be able to make some world

29:43

records, it had to be very

29:45

cold and it had to be

29:47

a lot of snow and it

29:50

had to be kind of extreme

29:52

time in nature because that's a

29:54

part of the Norwegian culture. If

29:56

I was born in Korea or

29:58

California, it would be something told

30:00

the difference. But I'm a Norwegian.

30:03

It'd be like a big wave

30:05

surfer or something like that. Something

30:07

like that. But it doesn't always

30:09

have to be, and tell me,

30:11

clearly if I'm wrong, but the

30:14

way I've interpreted a lot of

30:16

your sort of philosophy here is,

30:18

while it's extreme for you and

30:20

you are in the pursuit of

30:22

extreme, and I think that when

30:24

we're talking about trying to pick

30:27

up hobbies or becoming like a

30:29

hunter or whatever, things that things,

30:31

you know, new things in life

30:33

for people. people might have an

30:35

excuse. Everybody has an excuse. Oh,

30:38

it's too expensive or I'm not

30:40

athletic enough or I'm not. It's

30:42

always I can't. Right? Yeah. I

30:44

think the genius sort of trap

30:46

you've created here is, again, if

30:48

you're not disabled, just walk. Exactly.

30:51

One of the best advices you

30:53

can have in life is, you

30:55

know, just, you know. go out

30:57

walking, do something physical and you

30:59

know quite often the best things

31:02

in life are for free and

31:04

to walk are certainly for free

31:06

and and it's you know it's

31:08

in grade in other language you

31:10

walk you move you being moved

31:12

motion emotion emotion so it's good

31:15

for your creativity it's a good

31:17

few mood and it's like hypocrite

31:19

the founder or the father of

31:21

modern medicine said two and half

31:23

thousand years ago he said The

31:25

greatest medicine will always be to

31:28

do a walk. And if a

31:30

walk doesn't help you, you should

31:32

do another walk. And the third

31:34

advice was, whatever you do, don't

31:36

let the doctor give you the

31:39

wrong medicines. So I want to

31:41

sort of piece together the leap

31:43

between what Dave said. It's a

31:45

very low barrier for entry to

31:47

step outside and walk. most of

31:49

us can just go and explore

31:52

our block. You did the- But

31:54

Chris, Chris, it sounds so ridiculous.

31:56

It sounds very- Just walk. That

31:58

is somehow a part- Yeah, exactly.

32:00

It sounds- that is somehow related

32:03

to work. Sounds boring. Yeah, and

32:05

like unrelated. But you know, boring

32:07

to me, you know, it's boring

32:09

to me is lacko meaning. And

32:11

I think, you know, when I

32:13

grew up, I was bored because

32:16

I didn't have anything to do.

32:18

When, you know, in the 60s,

32:20

the 70s, today, people are bored,

32:22

mostly because they have too many

32:24

alternatives, like, you know, too many

32:26

apps, too many, blah, blah, blah,

32:29

blah, blah. I think the feeling

32:31

is the same. This kind of,

32:33

you know, lack of meaning in

32:35

life, which many people are suffering

32:37

from today. And then, you know,

32:40

when you walk, that shouldn't be

32:42

boring at all. But to look

32:44

into your screen three or four

32:46

or five hours a day, which

32:48

will add up to 13, 14

32:50

years of your life day and

32:53

night, mostly doing bullshit. That should

32:55

be boring. It is

32:57

pretty boring. It is pretty boring.

32:59

So do you, have you organized

33:02

your life in this way? You

33:04

talk about sort of like meaning

33:06

or purpose or goals, right? So

33:08

how old were you when you

33:11

said, I'm gonna do this North

33:13

Pole excursion? I'm gonna do something

33:15

that's never been done. I was

33:17

25 years old. And my companions

33:20

in North Pole, Berge, Avslan and

33:22

me, and a third guy, Guy

33:24

Rambi, who had an accident early

33:26

on, we decided we want to

33:29

be the first to the North

33:31

Pole and supported, as David said,

33:33

with no help from dogs or

33:36

deathballs or airplanes. But then, that

33:38

was a North Pole, but not

33:40

to be an explorer, started way

33:42

earlier, in the sense that we

33:45

all born explorers. When I looked

33:47

up my own daughters, I had

33:49

three daughters, when they came out

33:51

of the womb of the mother,

33:54

they were like any other kid,

33:56

stretching off the arves and the

33:58

legs in four different directions. and

34:00

screaming for more space, screaming for

34:03

air. And after a year, they

34:05

walked after the house and started

34:07

to wonder what's between themselves

34:09

and the horizon. So, and

34:11

soon after, what's beyond the

34:14

horizon. So, we all born

34:16

explorers. So, to be a kind of,

34:18

to become a North Pole explorer,

34:20

it's not something you

34:23

become, you're born in

34:25

North Pole Explorer, but

34:27

it's kind of spirit

34:29

exploration. slowly corrupted by

34:31

parents, by kindergarten,

34:34

by school. So you're

34:36

born with 360 degrees

34:38

horizon and then slowly

34:40

that horizon narrows into

34:42

kind of quite narrow. I

34:44

wanted to ask on this idea

34:46

of being an explorer,

34:49

one of the many things that

34:51

you've done. Is that some

34:53

kind of met like, how should I

34:55

say this? It doesn't

34:58

seem like you had any

35:00

fear. It's a good

35:02

question, but you know,

35:04

you're doing as an

35:06

explorer, you're not doing

35:08

it because you don't

35:10

have an affair, you're doing

35:13

it despite the fair you

35:15

have. So I'm always

35:17

fair prior to going on an

35:20

expedition. On the expedition I tried

35:22

to avoid the fair because the

35:24

fair makes you irrational. You start

35:26

doing stupid things. So you should

35:28

always be concerned. It should always

35:30

be a little bit worried, but

35:33

you should not be fearful on

35:35

the expedition. Not even when a

35:37

polar bear is attacking you, you

35:39

just have to stay cool if

35:41

you're going to survive. But there's

35:43

that passage by I think Marie,

35:45

I think he was doing some

35:48

journey and he... he paraphrases Gerta

35:50

and he basically summarizes like all

35:52

these great things that could have

35:54

possibly happened all die because they

35:56

don't actually make the decision to do

35:59

to do it right? once you've bought

36:01

the ticket, once you've

36:03

committed on the exploration,

36:05

like in some ways, there's just

36:07

no turning back, but the idea

36:10

of fear to me is something

36:12

that I just don't see in

36:14

you, right? It's just, but for

36:16

me, it's like, I'm trying to

36:18

do things that I'm totally scared

36:20

of, right? It's the extreme or

36:22

the act itself, the journey is

36:24

to conquer that fear. So how do

36:26

you put fear out of your mind?

36:29

First of all, I think you

36:31

need to, you know, I think you

36:33

need to just accept the importance of

36:35

making life more difficult than it has

36:37

to be, a little bit more dangerous

36:39

than it has to be. I'm saying

36:41

this as a Norwegian. Of course, if

36:43

I was born in Northern Sudan, I

36:46

would be thinking differently about it. But

36:48

as a Western European or also most

36:50

people in the States, not everyone, but

36:52

most people in the States will be

36:54

better off if they, I believe, if

36:56

they... decided to make their

36:59

life more difficult in the sense that

37:01

like you know through all today you

37:03

make all these decisions and it's easy

37:05

to go for an easy solution and

37:08

it's always easy to play safe all

37:10

the time but then your life kind

37:12

of tend to feel very short

37:14

like that's why people at my

37:16

age 62 years old they complain

37:18

life is so short and life

37:20

days pass by so quickly. It's

37:22

because hardly anything is happening in

37:25

their lives in their lives. So So

37:27

or kind of the same things are

37:29

happening every day and then life

37:31

feels short So I believe like you

37:33

know you need to take some

37:35

little bit more risks I don't

37:37

think I had taken huge risk because

37:40

I have always been good with

37:42

my preparations But some risks and I

37:44

think you know life life is

37:46

a struggle and we should just

37:48

accept it. I want to zero in

37:50

like on a specific expedition. So

37:52

so your your most recent book was

37:55

about this North Pole After the

37:57

North Pole, they'll everywhere fine books

37:59

are sold. What were, I wonder if

38:01

you could sort of just as we're

38:03

on the subject of fear, what are

38:05

some of the concerns, the literal

38:08

physical concerns embarking on this

38:10

journey, and where does the

38:12

fear of failing at this

38:14

excursion rank among those fears

38:16

you might have setting out

38:18

on the ice? It's, you know,

38:21

the possibility of failing or something

38:23

dangerous should happen. Is there, you

38:25

know, from the first step on?

38:27

The major problems walking to the

38:29

North Pole is that the Arctic

38:31

Ocean, which the North Pole is

38:33

the middle of the Arctic Ocean,

38:36

is the fifth biggest ocean in the

38:38

world. So it's all covered by

38:40

ice and then circuit navigated by

38:42

continents, Alaska, Canada, and Russia and

38:45

Greenland. So you're actually walking on

38:47

drifting ice and the ocean is

38:49

up to 3,000 meters deep. So

38:52

sometimes the ice breaks, you know,

38:54

breaks apart. And it's open leads.

38:56

and you can fall into the

38:59

water, I mean it's minus 40

39:01

or 50 degrees or 56 centigrade,

39:03

that's dangerous, that's fair. And then,

39:06

you know, it's, and then you

39:08

can also be attacked by a

39:10

polar bear. So, you know, we were

39:12

attacked by a polar bear and when

39:14

you weigh out onto the ice fairly

39:17

close to the North Pole and

39:19

a bear want to attack you,

39:21

it's about who's having hoof for

39:23

dinner. I want to go back

39:25

in time and imagine. after the

39:28

bear attack like what were you

39:30

guys what was the reaction

39:32

were you like well okay

39:35

the story the story we

39:37

had been out there for

39:39

around 40 days and nights

39:41

in severe cold and eating

39:43

the same food every day

39:46

and when you start eating

39:48

this food it's kind of

39:50

doesn't taste so good but

39:52

then after you get more and more exhausted

39:54

and cold, etc. It tastes a better, better

39:57

for every day. I find this kind of

39:59

good me of food. but still we

40:01

were starving and we were freezing

40:03

having frost bites and suddenly I

40:05

heard my partner forget shouted hi

40:08

and I never heard him shout

40:10

anything before so I looked up

40:12

and I saw this polar bear

40:15

at 20-25 meters distance and came

40:17

towards us the bear saw that

40:19

we had seen it stopped hesitated

40:22

a little bit we died into

40:24

our sledges we grabbed over Magnum

40:26

44 had one Magnum 44 each

40:28

with a very short barrel because

40:31

you need to save weight on

40:33

expeditions because we're bringing everything we

40:35

needed for more than two months.

40:38

So you have to cut down

40:40

on everything which is heavy. So

40:42

we couldn't we couldn't shoot the

40:45

bear at 20, 25 meters distance

40:47

too far away. And then the

40:49

bears was standing there looking at

40:52

us. We were looking at the

40:54

bear and then my friend Berge,

40:56

this was in 1990. So The

40:59

big magazine to read at a

41:01

time for explorers were National Geographic

41:03

magazine. And he had his dream

41:06

about getting his photos published in

41:08

National Geographic. So he thought, National

41:10

Geographic. And this is my opportunity.

41:13

So he dropped his gun, grabbed

41:15

his camera, got a film into

41:17

the camera, and then talked me

41:20

standing between himself and the bear,

41:22

posing with a gun like this.

41:24

And soon after the bear turned

41:27

towards us and started his forfeit

41:29

into the snow, he said, he

41:31

knew it was going to charge,

41:34

he jumped aside a little bit

41:36

distant from his shoulder to confuse

41:38

the bear, and he charged like

41:40

maybe 30 miles an over and

41:43

then 20, 25 meters. So it's

41:45

kind of, you just have one

41:47

shot. And fortunately, we, we, we,

41:50

at eight meters distance, we hit

41:52

the bear. And neither of us

41:54

had... any ambition or dreams whatever

41:57

to kill a polar bear but

41:59

the alternative was that to be

42:01

able to eat us and even

42:04

the Gandhi. that if a lion

42:06

is going to kill you or

42:08

your family, you are allowed to

42:11

kill the lion. So we had

42:13

to do it. There is so

42:15

much there is absolutely incredible. First

42:18

of all, I think that's the

42:20

most insane thing that's ever been

42:22

said. Yeah, exactly. I don't even

42:25

know. I don't even know. Golly,

42:27

you take you the photo? That's

42:29

something you would do, Chris. Yeah,

42:32

that's exactly like, hold on, hold

42:34

on, Dave, hold the gun up

42:36

for a second. This is worth

42:39

it. First of all, props to

42:41

National Geographic. How great must they

42:43

feel that literally two explorers fighting

42:46

a polar bear like, oh, let's

42:48

get into National Geographic. And... He

42:50

contacted the National Geographic afterwards and

42:52

they actually published the photos. So

42:55

he succeeded, yeah. Are you, so

42:57

getting back to, okay, between fear

42:59

and this sort of resolve you

43:02

have, are you somebody who would

43:04

say, I would do anything for

43:06

this goal? Like would you, how

43:09

far would you, would you die

43:11

to make this happen? Would you

43:13

die trying to accomplish this expedition?

43:16

not die but I was certainly

43:18

like you know if I lost

43:20

a finger or something that will

43:23

be totally okay of course I

43:25

tried to avoid it but I

43:27

mean it's it's it's like it's

43:30

like it's like as also right

43:32

in the book it's like you

43:34

know it's like a love story

43:37

you just fall in love with

43:39

idea and you're almost like hypnotized

43:41

to kind of what's on the

43:44

left what's on the right really

43:46

doesn't matter all they want is

43:48

to get to the North Pole

43:51

and this last through two years

43:53

of preparations of preparations and then

43:55

eventually 58 days and nights to

43:58

watch the poem. So it's so

44:00

I really I mean I had

44:02

a great girlfriend at the time

44:04

I was studying blah blah blah

44:07

but the only thing that was

44:09

going on in my mind was

44:11

to get ready for the North

44:14

Pole and I think you know

44:16

sometimes that's that's necessary and also

44:18

it's a great feeling in life

44:21

to have just one great goal.

44:23

Speaking of goals because I would

44:25

like to know because it seems

44:28

that you've been extremely successful at

44:30

conquering all of these extreme challenges

44:32

what have you failed at? What

44:35

have you failed at? Are there

44:37

goals that you've set out for

44:39

yourself and not achieve? I think,

44:42

you know, I think, you know,

44:44

sometimes I think I should have

44:46

made my life even more difficult

44:49

and sometimes, you know, I could

44:51

have stretched myself even further, but

44:53

on a personal level, like, you

44:56

know, I have... three great daughters

44:58

but it's I never had time

45:00

to get married and I felt

45:03

for being married and kind of

45:05

you know failed with a mother

45:07

of my kids to to be

45:10

together etc so on the personal

45:12

level it has been sad stories

45:14

but in turn so exploring being

45:16

in nature writing books I mean

45:19

all the things I do, it's

45:21

usually worth all well. When you

45:23

say I should have made my

45:26

life more difficult, this is sort

45:28

of central to a lot of

45:30

Dave's own philosophy, taking the hard

45:33

way, not just to be hard,

45:35

but because of the rewards and

45:37

edification and education you get from

45:40

doing things the hard way, but

45:42

I think to most people what

45:44

you just said sounds crazy. I

45:47

could have made my life more

45:49

difficult. Can you sort of explain

45:51

that to the average person who's

45:54

like, I would just like for

45:56

my life to be 10% easier?

45:58

Yeah, but you know, then they.

46:01

It's nothing wrong with wanting your

46:03

life to be easier than immorally,

46:05

it's totally okay. But you know,

46:08

it's one of the kind of,

46:10

you know, if it's top of

46:12

philosophy, like one of the original

46:15

ideas of the meanings of life

46:17

is to fulfill your own potentials

46:19

in life. Like not only one

46:22

or two of your potentials, but

46:24

like several of your potentials in

46:26

life. Another meaning of life, you

46:28

know, for thousands of years has

46:31

been to. get to know yourself.

46:33

And I think all this kind

46:35

of wisdom that have lasted or

46:38

survived for more than 1,000 years,

46:40

so actually several thousand years, we

46:42

should take seriously. A lot of

46:45

the advice is to have kind

46:47

of lasted for days or weeks

46:49

or a few years. We don't

46:52

need to take so seriously. So

46:54

if you've got to fulfill your

46:56

own potentials or if you're going

46:59

to get to know yourself better,

47:01

You have to kind of challenge

47:03

yourself. You have to accept that

47:06

life is difficult. And you know

47:08

this whole idea that life should

47:10

be easy. I think it's a

47:13

huge misunderstanding. And I also think

47:15

that's one of the reasons why

47:17

people prefer noise in life. Like,

47:20

not only sense of sounds, but

47:22

also like looking into a screen

47:24

as often as possible. man made

47:27

light, this thing to play lists

47:29

with, you know, not very exciting

47:31

music, watching TV or programs or

47:34

short beat or whatever, which hardly

47:36

every is challenging. And you know,

47:38

it's, it's, then you have this

47:40

huge, one huge chance in life

47:43

to, to live a rich life.

47:45

And if you're wasted, you may

47:47

regret it. I would put you

47:50

in a group of very like

47:52

a small group of people I've

47:54

met in my life that have

47:57

achieved you know, truly amazing things.

47:59

And it's a specific kind of

48:01

individual that I would put you

48:04

in because the kind of person

48:06

that when they reflect on their

48:08

life, they may have regrets, you

48:11

know, everyone has certain regrets. That's

48:13

normal, but not like life choice

48:15

regrets, not like professional regrets, where

48:18

they're like, no, I did everything

48:20

I wanted to do. I feel

48:22

like most people. Maybe if they

48:25

hear this from you. How do

48:27

you tell somebody to live a

48:29

life with no regret? Because that

48:32

should be one of the goals.

48:34

Yeah, it should be a goal.

48:36

I don't think it's a goal.

48:39

You know, yeah, I think it's

48:41

on a personal level. As I

48:43

said, I regret things. But I

48:46

asked my father a few weeks

48:48

back and his, you know, he's

48:50

in the hospital, he's, you know,

48:52

he. probably die not too long

48:55

time. I asked him, do you

48:57

have any regrets whatsoever? And before

48:59

I finished asking him, like you

49:02

know, he was half asleep, he

49:04

just said, no, not at all.

49:06

So I was surprised. Your dad

49:09

and that group got bigger. That's

49:11

so much to live up to.

49:13

That's so aggressive. But then again,

49:16

I think, you know, we're doing

49:18

so much in life, of course,

49:20

whatever we do in life, we

49:23

do it for more than one

49:25

reason. And I think, you know,

49:27

one reason while you keep on,

49:30

for instance, wanting to walk to

49:32

the North Pole, write a book

49:34

about the history of the North

49:37

Ball, it's also a father and

49:39

son issue. It's, I think, you

49:41

know, almost every boy has a

49:44

complicated relationship to his son. And

49:46

for me certainly one of the

49:48

reasons I have been doing many

49:51

of these things was because I

49:53

want to impress my father. And

49:55

then, but that's the oldest story

49:58

in the world. So I mean,

50:00

if fathers and sons had a

50:02

good relationship in general, it would

50:04

hardly be anything to write about

50:07

in the Bible. And so this,

50:09

so this is just, yeah, this

50:11

is, I think, you know, most

50:14

girls or women, if they learn

50:16

a little bit about how their

50:18

partner is a male partner, has

50:21

been struggling with their father, they

50:23

would, you know, it would be

50:25

easier to live with a guy.

50:28

I won't touch that one. That's

50:30

for my wife. Figure that out.

50:32

I got so many things. The

50:35

crazier things I want to ask

50:37

towards the end, because I don't

50:39

want to totally lose you if

50:42

we go there, but I wanted

50:44

to make sure that we talk

50:46

about food because this is a

50:49

lot of people in food or

50:51

into food. They always listen. What

50:56

I think they would want to

50:58

like what do you eat on

51:00

an exploration right? You one of

51:03

your famous meals was a was

51:05

it a raisin? You know what

51:07

you eat is that first of

51:09

all because you're burning off so

51:12

many thousand calories a day and

51:14

you still is very limited how

51:16

much you can bring because as

51:19

I said you have everything with

51:21

you carrying everything on a sled.

51:23

So we ate about 6,000 calories

51:25

a day, about 950 grams altogether,

51:28

which you mix all with water

51:30

that you get from melting ice

51:32

and snow. So for breakfast we

51:35

had oats with lots of hats

51:37

and then formula milk, because formula

51:39

milk gives more energy program than

51:41

ordinary milk, also dried formula milk.

51:44

And then throughout the day eating

51:46

chocolate with extra extra fat in

51:48

the chocolate, more old. and in

51:51

the evenings some dried meat with

51:53

mashed potatoes or pasta. How did

51:55

you make the mashed potatoes? That

51:57

was pre-made in powder. So and

52:00

then again mix it with water

52:02

and we were so hungry so

52:04

the rule was always one is

52:07

going to share the portions and

52:09

the other ones was choosing just

52:11

to make sure that you're not

52:13

tricked. So you get absolutely equal

52:16

portions. Dave, here's how far away

52:18

from Erling I am. I don't

52:20

even think I could just do

52:23

that diet part for 50 days.

52:25

I don't think I could just

52:27

eat that for 50 days. I

52:29

don't think I could thrive just

52:32

doing that in the comfort of

52:34

my own home. Are you... Then

52:36

I guess I think most people

52:39

actually underestimating themselves. And I think

52:41

Chris maybe, you know, it's like,

52:43

you know, it's... I have met

52:45

thousands or talked to thousands of

52:48

people around in the world and

52:50

I think most people actually and

52:52

they're estimating their own kind of

52:55

you know possibilities life. Is that

52:57

I do want to stick on

52:59

that. You don't know that this

53:01

this is a elaborate intervention. So

53:04

many of these interviews turn into

53:06

an intervention for me. Let's play

53:08

that game for just a second.

53:11

Is it I mean. Dave talked

53:13

earlier about excuses and the excuses

53:15

we make that prevent us from

53:17

achieving the potential or fulfilling multiple

53:20

potentials like you said. Mine at

53:22

this moment is probably, yeah yeah,

53:24

Erling did this when he was

53:27

25, 27. I'm too old to

53:29

do anything great now. I'm 42

53:31

years old. What could I possibly...

53:33

achieve now? How could I possibly

53:36

break the rut? Which is, I

53:38

mean, you're one thing early. It

53:40

sounds like from day one, you've

53:43

been trying to live to this

53:45

potential, trying to achieve these things.

53:47

You know, do you have to

53:49

be born with this or can

53:52

you make some kind of a

53:54

change in your life to achieve

53:56

this sort of potential? Yes, yes,

53:59

yes to both. First of all,

54:01

we're born with the spirit. And

54:03

secondly, absolutely, you know, we can

54:05

all change our lives. And again,

54:08

I think, you know, that's something

54:10

like, you know, as David said

54:12

earlier on, we always had these

54:15

excuses, like, you know, we always

54:17

had these explanations, why we do

54:19

this and not that and that

54:21

and that and that. And I

54:24

learned it when I in my

54:26

early 20s, I sailed across the

54:28

Atlantic with some friends and sailed

54:31

back again. And every harbor we

54:33

came to. Someone came down to

54:35

the pier and told me almost

54:37

every harbor at this and said

54:40

to me, I have always been

54:42

dreaming about doing what you're doing.

54:44

And then again, like now, if

54:47

not now, when? and you know

54:49

this idea of running a marathon

54:51

or whatever it's just like you

54:53

know it's it doesn't have to

54:56

be super extreme but just like

54:58

you know challenge yourself yeah I

55:00

think you're underestimating yourself that's a

55:03

good news Do you find satisfaction

55:05

from these goals? I mean, is

55:07

it, like you said, for two

55:09

years your life, your relationship, your

55:12

relationship was with this expedition. You

55:14

thought about her in the morning,

55:16

you thought about her in the

55:19

morning, you thought about her in

55:21

the night, you thought about her

55:23

all day long, how you were

55:25

going to achieve this thing. When

55:28

it was over, did you find

55:30

a new relationship with a new

55:32

goal? Do you sort of only

55:35

find your sort of life satisfaction

55:37

from these goals? I mean, do

55:39

you enjoy like... eating a steak.

55:41

Yeah, I, I, yeah, I, you

55:44

know, as soon as I, I'd

55:46

be to the North Pole. I

55:48

wrote a book about it, I

55:51

started work, and then my huge

55:53

dream was to get to the

55:55

South Pole alone. That's the first

55:57

in history. So I got to

56:00

the South. South Pole and then

56:02

I got another dream and that

56:04

was to become the first to

56:07

the North Pole South Pole on

56:09

top Everest. So I did that.

56:11

So it's kind of, you know,

56:13

you always need more dreams. I

56:16

think it's really, really important to

56:18

dream. Yeah. How much of your

56:20

sort of philosophy of doing something

56:23

difficult? is parallel to the Japanese

56:25

concept or of Misogi. Are you

56:27

familiar with that? Nope. Where you

56:29

have to do something extremely difficult,

56:32

like one thing every year. Yeah,

56:34

yeah, I think for your personal

56:36

growth as a person, you know.

56:39

Yeah, I haven't heard, I think

56:41

that's, you know, it's, if it's

56:43

every year, every second year, every

56:45

six months, except to, you know,

56:48

I think everyone has to follow

56:50

their own path. I think that's

56:52

very, very, very important, like, like,

56:55

like, like, like, you know, you

56:57

know, like, you know, I don't

56:59

think that doesn't give any meaning.

57:01

Everyone should walk to the North

57:04

Pole, but we kind of had

57:06

to find over all the North,

57:08

North Poles. And then, you know,

57:11

so I like that Japanese concept.

57:13

I think, you know, to try

57:15

to learn something new every year,

57:17

I think it's a great idea.

57:20

One thing I definitely wanted to

57:22

ask, because I didn't understand what

57:24

it meant, is that you walked

57:27

Mount Everest, like, what is that?

57:29

I thought you like you also

57:31

walked. It's part of Everest is

57:33

pretty steep after all. So you

57:36

need to climb. Yeah, but I

57:38

did it, you know, I did

57:40

it partly because it was a

57:43

competition like 15 guys have been

57:45

to the North Pole, South Pole,

57:47

or Mont Everest to off of

57:49

these three. and Everest is called

57:52

a third pole and I very

57:54

much wanted to be the first.

57:56

So usually when I'm in nature

57:59

it has nothing to do with

58:01

competition. or with recognition, but certainly

58:03

when you climb Everest it has

58:05

something to do with recognition and

58:08

competition. Was it one of the

58:10

more difficult things you've ever

58:12

done or modest? Yeah, no,

58:14

no, no. Everest is difficult.

58:16

I think everyone who has

58:18

submitted Everest degrees, it is

58:20

difficult and it is dangerous.

58:24

What is I mean, it's a

58:26

good question that that that idea

58:28

of difficulty, right? So you train

58:30

so much you prepare so much

58:32

for each of these excursions. By

58:34

the time you, you know, reach

58:37

the moment where you are

58:39

summoning Everest, you are walking to

58:41

the North Pole, you're walking to

58:43

the South Pole. Does the preparation

58:46

make any of these, I don't

58:48

want to say easy, but like,

58:50

are they always more difficult than

58:52

they seem? Are they, is your

58:55

preparation adequate? Are you ever surprised

58:57

that you did it with any

58:59

sort of ease? Any of the

59:02

expeditions you've done? Yeah, you know,

59:04

I've also done many, many other

59:06

expeditions and absolutely it's like to

59:08

me to walk to the South

59:11

Pole because South Pole is kind

59:13

of the opposite of the North

59:15

Pole also in the sense that you

59:17

walk on ice which is resting

59:19

on the continent and so it's

59:21

safer. and you can walk in

59:24

the summer because the ice is

59:26

safer and to me that was

59:28

not a physically really

59:30

hard trip of course you

59:32

need to be in good

59:34

shape but for me that

59:37

became an expedition more into

59:39

myself it's what's the

59:41

expedition really learn me

59:44

about the importance of

59:46

silence this importance of

59:48

silence in life and And

59:50

of course in silence, silence,

59:53

inner silence, this silence which

59:55

is within waiting for you

59:57

to explore it at any

59:59

moment. That was just a great

1:00:01

experience. So it was, you know, it

1:00:03

was tough, but it was not super

1:00:06

tough. And that also, I kind of

1:00:08

learned a lesson about, you know,

1:00:10

the importance of listening to yourself,

1:00:12

because if you listen to yourself,

1:00:15

then you get to know about

1:00:17

yourself, sinuses about who you are,

1:00:19

while noise is about everything else.

1:00:21

Noise in life is about running

1:00:24

away from yourself. If you

1:00:26

had been undertaking these expeditions

1:00:28

today. Let's say you were

1:00:30

25, 27 years old

1:00:33

today and submitting a

1:00:35

verse and making all these,

1:00:38

would you be able to

1:00:40

resist the temptation to share

1:00:42

all of these adventures

1:00:45

on social media? You

1:00:47

know, that's a difficult

1:00:50

one, actually. I

1:00:52

think it's, it's, uh, I

1:00:54

hope so because, um, You

1:00:56

know, today, when people do

1:00:58

solo expeditions, like I did

1:01:00

to the South Pole today,

1:01:02

when I do today, I

1:01:04

didn't talk to anyone, I

1:01:06

didn't have a telephone, I

1:01:08

didn't have no contact with

1:01:10

all-side world for 50 days

1:01:13

and nights. Today, people talk

1:01:15

on the phone every evening

1:01:17

or every day, and you know,

1:01:19

and let's say... You call a wife,

1:01:21

a girlfriend, or your partner every evening,

1:01:24

you have been skiing, you're tired, it's

1:01:26

been tough day, you call up, and

1:01:28

hopefully, you know, she says to you,

1:01:31

I love you, and you say to

1:01:33

her, I love you too, the same

1:01:35

procedure, days pass by, weeks, and after

1:01:37

three weeks, she says to you, you know,

1:01:39

and you're in a way out on

1:01:42

the ice, and she says to you,

1:01:44

you know, the washing, the dishwasher broke

1:01:46

down today. So, and

1:01:48

you might as well just go home.

1:01:50

So I think it's, so I think

1:01:53

that in that sense, I think it's

1:01:55

easier to do such expeditions

1:01:57

without talking to anyone.

1:01:59

much more interesting because then

1:02:01

you have the silence you have

1:02:03

yourself it's mentally a little bit

1:02:06

more challenging but then again if

1:02:08

you talk to loved ones and

1:02:10

have to check like you know

1:02:12

what's going on in the world

1:02:14

you're losing so much so yeah

1:02:16

back to your question I really

1:02:19

hope I didn't I wouldn't be

1:02:21

on social media But like you

1:02:23

said like a lot of it

1:02:25

was about competition for you you

1:02:27

wanted to be the first so

1:02:29

so I guess the question for

1:02:32

me is Is it in your

1:02:34

mind how how much of it

1:02:36

is about I want to accomplish

1:02:38

and I want to I want

1:02:40

to I want people to see

1:02:42

I want people to see what

1:02:45

I did and I want to

1:02:47

be recognized for what I did

1:02:49

versus I'm doing and unsympathetic reasons

1:02:51

for what you're doing. And I

1:02:53

certainly had some of those. I

1:02:56

don't think it's unsympathetic myself, but

1:02:58

it's, you know, it's easy to

1:03:00

think about it as not so

1:03:02

sympathetic. And I, you know, I

1:03:04

certainly went to the polls and

1:03:06

climbed Everest for egocentric reasons too.

1:03:09

I did it because I want

1:03:11

to recognition, I wanted to have

1:03:13

respect, I want to show I

1:03:15

could do this. I'm sure also,

1:03:17

you know, as I said, I

1:03:19

wanted to impress my father, I

1:03:22

want to impress my friends, I

1:03:24

want to... And I think, you

1:03:26

know, an underestimate to think, you

1:03:28

know, reasons to do it. Also,

1:03:30

like, you know, at least in

1:03:32

Norway, polar explorers, the girls like

1:03:35

you, even more, like you more.

1:03:37

There's also a way to become

1:03:39

more attractive with girls. So it's,

1:03:41

it's due to do for all

1:03:43

these reasons, but then, I think

1:03:45

kind of the... Most important reasons,

1:03:48

they are like, you know, it's

1:03:50

about importance of walking, as I

1:03:52

said, like you walk, you move,

1:03:54

you're being, as you know, being

1:03:56

moved, you're in nature, you're taking

1:03:58

part in nature. And I

1:04:01

think the whole idea we

1:04:03

have today to separate ourselves

1:04:05

from nature, the whole idea

1:04:07

we have that we can

1:04:09

conquer nature, that we don't

1:04:11

need nature. I think that's

1:04:13

one of the biggest better

1:04:15

understandings we have today. It's

1:04:17

also a source for many

1:04:19

of the problems we have

1:04:21

today from personal problems, depression,

1:04:23

sadness, loneliness to climate crisis.

1:04:25

So, so, and then it's

1:04:27

about wondering, it's about curiosity,

1:04:29

it's about... doing something physical,

1:04:31

physical, homosuppance of a species

1:04:33

has always been a physical

1:04:35

species. We look under the

1:04:37

first generationers kind of sits

1:04:39

in a share and look

1:04:41

into a screen when we

1:04:43

go to explore the world.

1:04:45

So I think it's something

1:04:47

deeply kind of a human

1:04:49

to go off to nature

1:04:51

and get tired, get exhausted

1:04:53

and try to reach the

1:04:55

top of a month or

1:04:57

something. But it doesn't always

1:04:59

have to be the polls

1:05:01

or nature. You did the

1:05:03

underground on New York City,

1:05:05

which I just as a

1:05:07

long time resident of New

1:05:09

York could never even dare

1:05:11

thinking. That was, who? Did

1:05:13

he explain to everybody what

1:05:15

you did? Yeah, together with

1:05:17

Steve Duncan, some. an urban

1:05:19

explorer, a great American urban

1:05:21

explorer. And so people came

1:05:23

and went, but Steve and

1:05:25

I, we did the whole

1:05:27

expedition, kind of a mean

1:05:29

expedition. We went up to

1:05:31

240 second street in New

1:05:33

York and northern Bronx, went

1:05:35

into the sewage and walked

1:05:37

through the sewage down to

1:05:39

Harlem, and then we criss-crossed

1:05:41

the whole city for five

1:05:43

days, sleeping on the ground,

1:05:45

had sleeping bags, little madras.

1:05:47

kind of alpine side with

1:05:50

a backpack and ending up

1:05:52

in Jamaica Bay. So we

1:05:54

went above ground several times

1:05:56

to change tunnels. We used

1:05:58

the metro a few times

1:06:00

to tax a few times,

1:06:02

bought food above ground. But

1:06:04

mostly we stayed below ground

1:06:06

just moving out to watch

1:06:08

the ocean to sewage train

1:06:10

water and subway towns. Yeah,

1:06:12

that's that's insane. I mean,

1:06:14

you can look online on

1:06:16

New York Times. They they

1:06:18

photograph some of that. I

1:06:20

have so many questions and

1:06:22

then move on quickly. What

1:06:24

one? What was the craziest

1:06:26

thing you saw down there?

1:06:28

And two, it mentions that

1:06:30

you bumped into people. How

1:06:32

many people live down? underneath

1:06:34

New York City. The crisis

1:06:36

was the sewer system below

1:06:38

Soho on Manhattan because it

1:06:40

was like two and a

1:06:42

half two feet high at

1:06:44

the lowest. We had to,

1:06:46

Steve and I, we had

1:06:48

to lay down totally flat

1:06:50

and crawl through the sewage

1:06:52

and then actually stopped. and

1:06:54

just start laughing because it

1:06:56

was just too insane and

1:06:58

Stevie was wondering why I

1:07:00

laughed and I said like

1:07:02

you know this is just

1:07:04

too much so that's but

1:07:06

then in terms of people

1:07:08

not so many people living

1:07:10

underground anymore because they're forced

1:07:12

by the authorities by the

1:07:14

local government to get out

1:07:16

of the tunnels and live

1:07:18

in what you call hospits

1:07:20

is that why I call

1:07:22

it hospits like you know

1:07:24

it's a temporary home for

1:07:26

homeless people. But then it's

1:07:28

a, you know, it's some

1:07:30

hardcore people who manage to

1:07:32

remain in the tunnels and

1:07:34

live alive. And it's rough

1:07:36

to live underground. Of course,

1:07:38

there's no reason to romanticize

1:07:40

about it. But then, you

1:07:42

know, we met this girl

1:07:44

who lives on West Side

1:07:46

Tunnel around 110th Street, called

1:07:48

Brooklyn. And a matter of

1:07:50

few times have been done

1:07:52

a couple of times. And

1:07:54

we had, she had her

1:07:56

birthday, we celebrated her birthday

1:07:58

in the tunnel. And

1:08:00

I said, why is that? And

1:08:03

she said, you know, I'm content

1:08:05

with what I have. But you

1:08:07

seem like, you know, you're laughing,

1:08:09

you're singing, you seem happy at

1:08:12

this kind of, you seem more

1:08:14

happy than people about ground, that

1:08:16

is less stressed, like more relaxed,

1:08:18

love more. And I said, why

1:08:21

is that? And she said, you

1:08:23

know, I'm content with what I

1:08:25

have. which I found interesting because

1:08:27

that's kind of a basic, stalwart

1:08:30

kind of idea. You should be

1:08:32

content with what you have. So,

1:08:34

you know, she has a rough

1:08:36

life, but it's, it's, but it's

1:08:39

certainly something to learn from people

1:08:41

living underground too. It's amazing that

1:08:43

you can find some, something to

1:08:45

explore no matter where you are

1:08:48

at. There's something to be learned

1:08:50

from people who live underground. I

1:08:52

just. The sentences we're hearing today.

1:08:54

One thing I wanted to ask

1:08:57

before we get you out of

1:08:59

here is you went to Cambridge

1:09:01

and you studied moral philosophy and

1:09:03

I feel like a lot of

1:09:06

maybe what you read is still

1:09:08

prevalent in how you think today.

1:09:10

Like why did you study philosophy?

1:09:12

I wanted to do something totally

1:09:15

different from the expedition life. It

1:09:17

became... a little bit of a

1:09:19

routine to go on expedition so

1:09:21

I want to just change my

1:09:24

life. So I stayed a year

1:09:26

in Cambridge. I didn't tell anyone

1:09:28

the first couple of months that

1:09:30

I had done expeditions. I didn't

1:09:33

want to talk about it anymore.

1:09:35

I just want to learn something

1:09:37

kind of totally different. And you

1:09:39

know if whoever has a chance

1:09:42

to try to read a little

1:09:44

bit of philosophy I think because

1:09:46

it really, you know... It teaches

1:09:48

you a lot about yourself and

1:09:51

also about what's going on in

1:09:53

society and why people doing what

1:09:55

they're doing and also quite a

1:09:57

bit about what's right and what's

1:10:00

wrong in life. So, you know,

1:10:02

you get more respectful. the people

1:10:04

too by reading philosophy. So for

1:10:06

me, it was a great year

1:10:09

and I kept on reading philosophy,

1:10:11

I think. I mean, because I

1:10:13

feel like there are some parallels

1:10:15

between some of what Nietzsche has

1:10:18

said and what you say, particularly

1:10:20

when it comes to walking, because

1:10:22

Nietzsche was a walking lunatic. Yep.

1:10:24

Did you get any inspiration of

1:10:27

like? Like how much did you

1:10:29

take from a lot of these

1:10:31

philosophers? Because I feel like you're

1:10:33

an amalgamation of a lot of

1:10:36

things that I study growing up

1:10:38

too. So it's just extremely refreshing

1:10:40

that you didn't just study it.

1:10:42

You are literally what like I

1:10:45

think modern philosophy would want. You

1:10:47

are the living embodiment of you

1:10:49

know what you've been studying. So

1:10:51

like what were some of the

1:10:54

philosophers that struck you the most?

1:10:56

Many, but just like you know

1:10:58

one example like Spinnulsa, the Dutch

1:11:00

philosopher, 70th century philosopher, I really

1:11:03

benefited from for his idea that

1:11:05

nothing is absolute. Of course if

1:11:07

your dad is you know you

1:11:09

can say it absolute maybe but

1:11:12

it's but as long as his

1:11:14

life is nothing is absolute and

1:11:16

that's also like you know on

1:11:18

the expedition is like You're

1:11:21

never 100% safe and you're

1:11:23

never 100% lost. And nothing

1:11:25

is 100% certain. And it's

1:11:27

all about degrees between kind

1:11:30

of 0.1 to 99.9. So

1:11:32

it never goes to zero,

1:11:34

never goes to 100. And

1:11:36

to me, that's a relief

1:11:38

because whatever happens in my

1:11:41

life, it is, you know,

1:11:43

extreme negativity and the danger

1:11:45

whatever, it's always a possibility

1:11:47

to get out of it.

1:11:49

And on the other hand.

1:11:52

if I feel totally comfortable,

1:11:54

having a great meal, you

1:11:56

know, I love eating great

1:11:58

food, drinking good wine, or

1:12:01

I'm hanging in a face

1:12:03

of a mountain. I feel

1:12:05

100% safe. I know I'm

1:12:07

not. Something can always go

1:12:09

wrong. And I think that

1:12:12

basic idea is, is, yeah,

1:12:14

just one example of, you

1:12:16

know, how I have benefited

1:12:18

personally from reading philosophy. Well,

1:12:20

I think honestly, the greatest

1:12:23

achievement you've made actually is

1:12:25

you find Spinoza highly readable.

1:12:27

I didn't say he was

1:12:29

highly readable. Can I tell

1:12:31

you a love story before

1:12:34

we quit? When I wrote

1:12:36

my book on the North

1:12:38

Pole, I started to look

1:12:40

into the lives of... The

1:12:42

partners all this North Pole

1:12:45

explorers through 500 years tried

1:12:47

to get to North Pole,

1:12:49

what happened to their wives,

1:12:51

the kids, the fiancees, etc.

1:12:53

etc. because this was for

1:12:56

hundreds of years, only men,

1:12:58

Western men and immigrants. And

1:13:00

then of course, it didn't

1:13:02

get any news whatsoever for

1:13:04

one year, two years, three

1:13:07

years, never ever. And then

1:13:09

one example. or how we

1:13:11

could go, was these three

1:13:13

Swedish explorers who tried to

1:13:15

fly to the North Pole

1:13:18

in 1998, 1897 in the

1:13:20

summer, and they took off

1:13:22

from Swalwar, for this archipelago,

1:13:24

North for Norway, July 97,

1:13:26

and just before we're going

1:13:29

to leave, they were told

1:13:31

that you will most likely

1:13:33

have headwinds all the way.

1:13:35

and of course to fly

1:13:37

in a balloon to North

1:13:40

Pole the headwinds is almost

1:13:42

not possible. So they have

1:13:44

to choose, do we have

1:13:46

the courage to go back

1:13:48

to Sweden without having tried

1:13:51

and be considered to be

1:13:53

covered or do we have

1:13:55

less courage and make a

1:13:57

dash for the North Pole?

1:13:59

and they decided on the

1:14:02

latter, took off after two and

1:14:04

a half days, the land and

1:14:06

the ice just between Swalva

1:14:08

where they started and the

1:14:11

North Pole, and then started

1:14:13

to walk down the southwards

1:14:15

back to civilization.

1:14:18

One of the guys, he got

1:14:20

engaged eight months previously

1:14:23

to his lowest life, Anna,

1:14:25

and she was waiting. These

1:14:27

guys walked to July. We

1:14:29

walked through August, we walked

1:14:31

through September, tried to find

1:14:33

an island which had not

1:14:36

been discovered before. It was

1:14:38

not islands on the map.

1:14:40

And eventually, 5th of October,

1:14:43

they came to this island,

1:14:45

which has been called White

1:14:47

Island. After three days, they were

1:14:49

all dead. Alma was waiting

1:14:51

through the autumn, to 98,

1:14:54

99, 1900. And eventually, 99,

1:14:56

2009, she married. She kept

1:14:58

a photo of her fiancé, Nils,

1:15:00

in the living room. And then

1:15:03

in 1930, the three Swedes,

1:15:05

the remains were found. And

1:15:07

her fiancé was one of the

1:15:09

three. And around his neck, he

1:15:11

had a medallion. And still,

1:15:13

and inside the medallion, it

1:15:15

was a photo of Anna.

1:15:18

And in his left breast pocket,

1:15:20

he had his diary and

1:15:22

love letters. He had been

1:15:24

writing to his fiancé. through

1:15:26

the whole server. First, he was worried

1:15:29

that he was worried about her being

1:15:31

worried about him because he came late

1:15:33

home. And then he started to get

1:15:35

worried about her being worried about him

1:15:37

because he won't make it back home

1:15:40

before the winter. So he says, when

1:15:42

I get home, he will be married,

1:15:44

you will have a wedding as I promised

1:15:46

you, I love you, you know, love my

1:15:48

life. And then. all the way until late

1:15:50

September, he's a little bit less optimistic, but

1:15:52

still, he's writing that, you know, I love

1:15:54

you so much, I will winter on the

1:15:56

ice, in the spring I will be back

1:15:58

to Sweden, I will get mad. Alna got

1:16:00

to read this in 1930 and

1:16:02

of course extremely moved

1:16:05

but she couldn't go to

1:16:07

the funeral this huge state

1:16:09

funeral in Sweden because she

1:16:12

was married but then 18 years

1:16:14

later Alna dies and her

1:16:16

will it says I want to be

1:16:18

cremated but and my body the

1:16:21

ashes for my body should be

1:16:23

put into the family grave

1:16:25

or my husband but before

1:16:28

cremation My heart should be

1:16:30

literally cut out and cremated

1:16:33

separately. And the ashes

1:16:35

should be sent to Sweden

1:16:37

and be buried with my

1:16:39

fiancee. So the sent ashes

1:16:41

of her heart to Sweden

1:16:43

in a little silver

1:16:45

box. Neil's brother received

1:16:47

it early one morning, the

1:16:49

5th of September, 1948, and

1:16:52

dig down into the grave

1:16:54

halfway down and put the little

1:16:56

silver box into... the

1:16:59

whole and did a

1:17:01

speech from ashes to

1:17:03

ashes and Yeah, that

1:17:05

was the story of

1:17:07

needs and armor That is

1:17:10

a that is a real

1:17:12

body blow to that husband

1:17:14

though I was honestly waiting

1:17:17

for something supernatural to happen

1:17:19

But that's you know that's

1:17:21

a different love story that

1:17:24

like her husband like you

1:17:26

know he he he he

1:17:28

support his wife her last

1:17:31

will I think that's also

1:17:33

a great love story I

1:17:35

think you know what yang

1:17:38

this is such a like really is

1:17:40

a perfect love story for

1:17:42

you know this topic we're talking

1:17:45

about where not every love

1:17:47

story has to be this

1:17:49

romantic Hollywood thing you know.

1:17:51

is even more beautiful. Yeah. That

1:17:54

could be. Now I know I'm not

1:17:56

doing enough physically or for my

1:17:58

wife, so I really appreciate. this

1:18:00

whole thing really good at a

1:18:02

five for me. Well, Erling, we

1:18:05

took enough of your time a

1:18:07

little over hour. We're really grateful

1:18:09

and we know that it's late

1:18:12

over there for you, right? Yeah,

1:18:14

but it's yeah, yeah, yeah. We're

1:18:16

gonna let you go. Thank you

1:18:19

so much. Thanks in my thing.

1:18:21

All the best. Thank you,

1:18:23

sir. Thank you, sir. All

1:18:27

right, we're gonna get into a

1:18:29

moyf but before we do I

1:18:31

just want to thank Arling Kaga

1:18:33

and the title of the book

1:18:35

Chris is After the North Pole

1:18:37

a story of survival myth making

1:18:39

and melting ice He has a lot

1:18:42

of books. He's a sort of

1:18:44

a prolific author as well a

1:18:46

world-class art dealer. He has

1:18:48

a book about collecting art about

1:18:50

how to collect art when you're

1:18:53

poor You know, he's a lawyer There's

1:18:55

two things I mentioned in there that

1:18:57

probably need explanation. I

1:19:00

said Misogi. So Misogi's a Shinto

1:19:02

ritual that has been like, I

1:19:04

wouldn't say co-opted, but sort of

1:19:06

modern day turned into like less

1:19:08

of a cleansing because they used

1:19:10

to cleanse them with water and

1:19:12

now it's like doing something physical.

1:19:15

I mean, it's a little bit

1:19:17

more difficult than that. And then

1:19:19

that Murray expedition was the Himalayan

1:19:22

expedition in 1951. And not

1:19:24

that anybody needs to know,

1:19:26

but I remember I was like

1:19:29

I totally blanked out on what

1:19:31

that was and our good

1:19:33

friend Stephen Healy actually wrote

1:19:36

a little little thing about

1:19:38

that, but Yeah, man that guy's

1:19:40

done it all and Yeah, yeah, you

1:19:42

had your intervention I

1:19:44

mean, let me ask you this in

1:19:46

all seriousness. Do you I know we've

1:19:49

already been on this tip,

1:19:51

but does that conversation

1:19:54

inspired you? No, yes,

1:19:56

I want to say no,

1:19:58

but it feels very much

1:20:00

like again I didn't want

1:20:02

to get too much in the

1:20:04

weeds on things that I have

1:20:07

a hard time articulating but you

1:20:09

know the the we living in a

1:20:11

world where there's just too

1:20:13

much reason and efficiency

1:20:15

and it's it's it's everything

1:20:17

works too well it's too slick

1:20:20

you know embracing suffering

1:20:22

embracing pain and I think

1:20:24

again that story of that

1:20:26

love story which would never

1:20:28

be a romcom you know, or

1:20:30

anybody in America's version of

1:20:33

a romantic story. Honestly, you

1:20:35

got to ask yourself that is

1:20:37

like, maybe that was considered

1:20:40

like extremely beautiful and

1:20:42

romantic for most people

1:20:44

before things got easier. You know,

1:20:47

so I think there's a lot that

1:20:49

I take from trying to embrace

1:20:51

suffering, which sounds terrible, but

1:20:54

you know, make, make shit hard.

1:20:56

It's not necessarily a bad thing.

1:20:58

I'm with you. Anyway, we're going

1:21:00

to move on to something else. We're

1:21:03

going to do a moyf and our

1:21:05

producers have not told us anything.

1:21:08

Okay, well, I mean, you just

1:21:10

always get a good nice moyfin,

1:21:12

but we decided that maybe it

1:21:15

could be like a surprise. Yoyph,

1:21:17

like your opinion is fact where

1:21:19

we get to ask you this

1:21:22

time. They are, they're kind of

1:21:24

related going off a little. about

1:21:26

what our what our Explorer friend

1:21:28

has discussed with us. So we

1:21:31

wanted to ask you first,

1:21:33

rabbit fire, extreme heat or

1:21:35

extreme cold? Prefer or prefer?

1:21:38

Extreme cold. Extreme

1:21:40

cold for sure. I don't want

1:21:42

to be hot. I'm always hot.

1:21:44

My whole life is extreme hot.

1:21:46

Big, big, big, big, boy, Asian

1:21:48

club. Come on. Come on, man.

1:21:51

The next one is you rank

1:21:53

these in order of best to

1:21:55

worst family vacation spot. The bottom

1:21:57

of the ocean, outer space.

1:22:00

the deep jungle untouched by

1:22:02

humankind or the middle of

1:22:04

the desert? Best worst. Outer space

1:22:06

one, desert two, jungle three, and

1:22:08

bottom of the ocean four. I'm gonna

1:22:10

rate outer space last for a

1:22:12

very specific reason and Dave I

1:22:15

think you can relate. I don't want

1:22:17

to go on a long flight with

1:22:19

my fucking kids. The long flights is

1:22:21

my fucking kids. No, all of those

1:22:23

places are going to be long flights.

1:22:26

I think going to outer space is

1:22:28

less of a flight than going... to

1:22:30

the desert's rock it straight up for

1:22:32

like for like an for like an

1:22:35

hour right and then you're out fine

1:22:37

outer space shortest flight then outer

1:22:39

space number one Desert last

1:22:41

jungle three under the sea under

1:22:44

the sea too. Desert last makes

1:22:46

sense with the the heat. I

1:22:48

like the under the sea. See

1:22:50

some cool stuff. Think about the

1:22:52

pressure. Think about the pressure. you're

1:22:54

gonna they're gonna you're gonna get

1:22:56

squashed into like a tiny atom

1:22:58

pressure for breakfast. No, I don't

1:23:01

want to squal. I don't want

1:23:03

to. Are we raking these in

1:23:05

order of like what would be

1:23:07

cool to see or or worst

1:23:09

way to die? Yeah, I don't

1:23:11

want to die under the ocean.

1:23:13

If you're not psyched about a

1:23:16

plane ride, I'm not sure the

1:23:18

bottom of the ocean submarine is

1:23:20

the place for you and your

1:23:22

family. I'm just

1:23:24

fucking. We'll

1:23:26

fuck. We'll fuck.

1:23:29

We'll fuck. We'll

1:23:31

fight. We're we're

1:23:33

fucking as fun

1:23:35

to jump. Hey,

1:23:38

me and bungee

1:23:40

cord. We have

1:23:43

something there. I

1:23:45

mean, I'm marrying.

1:23:48

What's the other

1:23:50

one? See the diving I'm

1:23:53

marrying diving and I'm

1:23:55

killing spelunking. Spelunking

1:23:58

is terrifying. to be terrifying.

1:24:00

I agree 100% first of all

1:24:03

you can't you can't marry you

1:24:05

can't marry bungee jumping that's not

1:24:07

the case she's not marriage material

1:24:09

frankly like you bungee jump

1:24:11

every now and then I'm gonna marry

1:24:13

scuba diving because that's a thing you

1:24:16

can do on the regular and I

1:24:18

agree with Dave spelunking fucking

1:24:20

terrifying just absolutely

1:24:22

terrified. Spelunking might be the most

1:24:25

fun word for the least fun thing

1:24:27

that you can come up with. Yeah

1:24:29

agree. Overrated, underrated, the

1:24:31

compass. I mean, completely

1:24:34

underrated. I mean, we

1:24:36

wouldn't be here today without it.

1:24:38

I don't know how to use it

1:24:41

myself. I don't think I've ever,

1:24:43

yeah, I mean, that's, it would

1:24:45

just, it'd be so

1:24:48

disrespectful to call the

1:24:50

compass overrated. Like, that's

1:24:52

just so disrespectful. But

1:24:54

also. Cannot think of a

1:24:57

single time of my life that

1:24:59

I have used a compass or

1:25:01

probably the last 20 years Honestly

1:25:03

Cannot think of a single

1:25:06

occasion I would not know

1:25:08

how to use a compass Can

1:25:10

I think of a time in

1:25:12

the last 20 years where I

1:25:14

it mattered to me which direction

1:25:16

north-southeast? There's no chance yin that

1:25:18

if you have a tiny compass and a

1:25:21

map No way I uh I did meddle

1:25:23

in Orienteering in Science Olympia

1:25:25

as a high school

1:25:28

student. So, just to throw

1:25:30

that out there. Would you

1:25:32

rather have constantly wet socks

1:25:35

or bad poison ivy on

1:25:37

your chest for a month

1:25:39

long hiking trip? Or I

1:25:41

think you guys should add

1:25:43

a third one, let's be

1:25:45

honest, your swamp ass. Yes,

1:25:47

like chafing, chafing the worst.

1:25:49

Shafing, no chafing. I mean,

1:25:51

swamp ass is terrible. The

1:25:53

thing is, I think you can die of

1:25:55

having wet feet for a month, but I

1:25:57

think you can survive Poison Ivy. I

1:26:00

don't think I could survive

1:26:02

wet feet or swamp-ass for

1:26:04

a straight month. You might

1:26:07

die. The last one is

1:26:09

an earnest one. What would

1:26:11

be the best thing about

1:26:14

having your co-host as the

1:26:16

one person stranded on a

1:26:18

desert island with you? I

1:26:21

mean, the worst thing? I

1:26:23

know a day is going

1:26:25

to say, oh, you'd be

1:26:28

very delicious. It's like so

1:26:30

easy. I mean... Genuinely, jeal

1:26:32

earnestly, genuinely. Question is, is

1:26:35

how long you'd last? Well,

1:26:37

our two go hand in

1:26:39

hand, because I think genuinely,

1:26:42

he would not, he would

1:26:44

either never give up or

1:26:46

never allow me to give

1:26:49

up. And then when I

1:26:51

gave up, he would eat

1:26:53

me. I think is legitimately

1:26:56

how it would play. putting

1:26:58

aside like my I genuinely

1:27:01

think Dave if you and

1:27:03

I were stuck in a

1:27:05

desert island it would be

1:27:08

a good it would be

1:27:10

like a good pairing like

1:27:12

I think we would survive

1:27:15

somehow I don't know I

1:27:17

think we would figure it

1:27:19

out I can survive a

1:27:22

dystopian apocalypse I cannot survive

1:27:24

an island It's

1:27:26

clear distinctions here, all right?

1:27:28

Yeah. He's a city slicker,

1:27:30

basically. Even if the city's.

1:27:33

I'm not going to make,

1:27:35

like, I have no ability

1:27:37

to, like, make a shelter,

1:27:39

well, you know, I've seen

1:27:41

alone, I can't do that

1:27:43

shit, but the reason why

1:27:45

I could be good in

1:27:47

a post-apocalyptic world is before

1:27:49

you murder me, let me

1:27:51

show you what I can

1:27:53

do with some of your

1:27:55

ingredients that you have. Oh

1:27:57

you like that? I can

1:27:59

cook whatever. you want all

1:28:01

the time. Just don't eat.

1:28:03

Just don't kill me. Sure.

1:28:05

Soft skills for the apocalypse.

1:28:07

I can fish. I can

1:28:09

ferment. I'm an okay hunter.

1:28:11

I can be a value

1:28:13

add to your roving band

1:28:15

of cannibalistic marauders. But Chris

1:28:17

Ying over there. Listen, listen

1:28:19

to your fucking shit out

1:28:21

of a book. Listen, listen,

1:28:24

you guys need to codify

1:28:26

your rules in some sort

1:28:28

of a book and everybody

1:28:30

needs a graphic design. You

1:28:32

need like a really good

1:28:34

logo for your burgers band

1:28:36

of marauders. Come on, we

1:28:38

need a good flag. Someone

1:28:40

used to make a pirate

1:28:42

flag, like someone had to

1:28:44

do it. Yeah, but here

1:28:46

is the difference. And then

1:28:48

we should get out here.

1:28:50

It's been running long. This

1:28:52

roving band of marauders. I

1:28:54

know how they think. Once

1:28:56

he creates the logo, they're

1:28:58

gonna murder him. Not if

1:29:00

I say, you know what

1:29:02

I mean? Like, this is

1:29:04

like, no, no, no, no.

1:29:06

Give it all of your

1:29:08

tricks. Once I make a

1:29:10

good meal, they can't murder

1:29:12

me. Because I'll be like,

1:29:14

I got more of those.

1:29:17

How many logos you got,

1:29:19

Chris? You. Well, listen, our

1:29:21

murderous band of erothers is

1:29:23

going to be known for

1:29:25

our ever-changing. brand refreshes we

1:29:27

do every six months. That's

1:29:29

what I'm selling them on.

1:29:31

My ability to refresh their

1:29:33

brand every six months. God,

1:29:35

I'm gonna die in the

1:29:37

apocalypse. You're gonna die. Yeah,

1:29:39

unfortunately. I feel very confident

1:29:41

in my survivability. Not so

1:29:43

much about Chris Ying's logos.

1:29:45

You don't see my logo.

1:29:47

All right, guys. We have

1:29:49

run really long, really grateful.

1:29:51

Thank you. Erling Cague's book

1:29:53

after the North Pole is

1:29:55

the philosopher king explore lawyer

1:29:57

major demo Domos. Yeah Major

1:29:59

dumb. Made

1:30:01

you Major Domos. Give you

1:30:03

five stars. Yeah.