0:07

Welcome to Aging with Purpose and

0:09

Passion , the podcast designed

0:11

to inspire your greatness and thrive

0:14

through life . Get ready to

0:16

conquer your fears . Here's

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your host . Psychotherapist

0:20

coach and empowerment expert

0:22

Beverly Glazer . Psychotherapist coach

0:25

and empowerment expert .

0:25

Beverly Glazer . What happens

0:28

when a nun decides

0:30

to leave the community and find

0:32

a job in the corporate world

0:34

? This

0:42

story is filled with empowering twists . Welcome to Aging with Purpose and Passion . I'm Beverley

0:44

Glazer and I empower women to overcome challenges

0:47

in life and in business with

0:49

renewed purpose , and you can always

0:51

find me on reinventimpossiblecom

0:55

. Denise Pyles

0:58

is a mindfulness coach and

1:00

she specializes in micro-mindfulness

1:03

techniques to prevent burnout . Denise

1:06

survived health issues , financial

1:09

struggles and she completely

1:12

reinvented herself . Denise

1:15

is an author with a corporate career

1:18

at Microsoft and

1:20

, as I mentioned before , denise

1:23

Piles is a former nun

1:25

. Thank you for

1:27

joining me , denise .

1:29

Thank you , beverly , it's great to be here , and

1:31

thank you , listeners , for joining

1:33

us today .

1:35

Thank you . You have quite a story

1:37

. What was it growing

1:40

up in a family

1:42

with seven children

1:44

?

1:51

Growing up in a family with seven children . So I tell family and friends today it was a life of fun

1:53

and dysfunction altogether , being a family of seven and

1:56

my parents were

1:58

of the baby boomer generation

2:00

. My dad was a World War II veteran and

2:03

my mom was a secretary

2:05

during the war and then became a full-time

2:08

mom . So it was having

2:10

both of them growing up . But the

2:12

root of them they were both

2:14

Catholic and the Roman Catholic

2:16

in the tradition . So we were rooted in

2:19

both love and in service and

2:21

giving back . My older

2:23

brother had polio when he was

2:25

two and my mom . I remember

2:27

as a child at nine years old walking

2:29

around the neighborhood with her collecting for the March

2:32

of Dimes . It was an organization and

2:34

I asked her I said why are you doing this ? And she

2:36

said it's important . They were

2:38

the only organization that helped us

2:40

when Tom had polio and

2:42

it's all important about giving back and

2:45

serving . So that was what

2:47

it was like growing up . We lived

2:49

in a small house of 1300 square feet

2:51

and shared one bathroom . So we dealt

2:53

with a lot of stuff , worked out a lot of stuff

2:55

and got along in

2:57

a small space and I think that was the roots

3:00

of how to live community and how to get along

3:02

with people . So I have fond

3:04

memories of wonderful

3:06

memories . It was hard but it was fun

3:09

and I work through

3:11

, grateful to therapy for working through the dysfunction

3:13

and continue to work through that . It's a lifelong

3:16

journey in living

3:18

our purpose with passion as well

3:20

as our imperfections .

3:23

Absolutely Dealing with that and letting all

3:25

that past go . Yes

3:27

, the ugly stuff . So

3:30

how did faith shape your

3:32

early years ? Yes , giving back

3:34

, but what about faith ?

3:37

So faith was the root

3:39

for both of my parents , but they practiced

3:41

their faith , expressed their faith

3:43

in the Roman Catholic tradition in different

3:45

ways , but both of them

3:47

and they instilled in us that what's important

3:50

is our relationship with our higher power . However

3:53

we name our higher power that

3:55

, be that God . And for us as Roman Catholics

3:57

it was God , jesus , the spirit and

4:00

but this . But for them it

4:02

was like you choose as you get older

4:04

. You choose your own religion or how you express

4:07

that , but they really stressed to have that

4:09

relationship because faith was

4:11

important in getting through life . I'm

4:13

also growing up , I'm an adult child of an alcoholic

4:16

, so the sense of the 12 step program

4:18

and that also shaped in the sense

4:20

of my theological studies before

4:22

I became a nun , of understanding

4:24

the power greater than ourselves , and so

4:26

it touches my core values . Of

4:28

love is a core value

4:31

and service and as a Christian it

4:33

was like the first commandment is you shall love , and

4:35

Jesus says you shall love your neighbor as

4:37

yourself . It was the and in

4:40

the , both of them .

4:42

And Catholic school must have also

4:44

influenced your path .

4:46

Yes , I . I went to an all

4:48

Catholic grade school and then an all

4:50

girls Catholic high school and I

4:52

I felt very fortunate

4:54

to have really good adult mentors

4:56

as teachers and throughout

4:59

all of my education . And the great thing

5:01

about the high school is that the nuns

5:04

and the priests who served there . They

5:06

felt so genuine and real , like they got

5:08

us as teenagers , as hormonal

5:10

teenage girls . They understood

5:13

the struggle and empowered

5:15

us to really pay attention

5:17

and live our best . I remember taking

5:19

a class in social justice

5:21

and the priest who taught the class . He

5:23

said when you graduate from college

5:26

, go out and see the world , get

5:28

out of your Catholic circle and see

5:30

the world and let it shape you and change

5:32

you and help you grow . He

5:35

was very inspiring and , again

5:37

, some of the teachers were nuns

5:39

were the same way . So I grew up with very positive

5:42

experiences of people in religious life

5:44

.

5:46

And that's probably one of the reasons you wanted to

5:48

become a teacher .

5:55

Yes , a teacher and a nun , and to inspire other people . When I was a nun , what was my purpose

5:57

or reason why ? It was to love and to serve others , and to do that

5:59

in community , because I was doing that

6:01

as a child , loving and serving

6:03

, and in a community of nine people

6:05

, as a family , growing

6:08

up .

6:09

True , it's true . And then health issues

6:11

impacted you

6:13

?

6:14

Yes , so

6:17

for listeners . You know , in the sense of our journey of life

6:20

, life happens to us and we choose

6:22

how to respond . And one of those things of

6:24

life happening to us is I have chronic

6:27

endometriosis and during the

6:29

time when I was a nun , I was

6:31

a nun for eight years . Six of those years

6:33

was a surgery , one per year

6:35

and dealing with chronic pain

6:38

and again leaning on

6:41

lessons in mindfulness . Being

6:43

a nun we called it contemplation

6:45

, but really trying to be present and to be with

6:48

what is happening and to

6:50

move through that pain

6:53

and find purpose and meaning in that

6:55

. But it was a struggle and it was . You

6:57

know , this frustration cycle of the

7:00

hysterectomy was surgery number three and for most

7:02

women it's over by that time . But I'm

7:04

the fortunate person of

7:07

10%

7:09

of women . Endometriosis grows outside

7:11

the uterine wall and

7:13

it's a lifelong struggle .

7:17

And it continued to be a struggle , I'm sure

7:20

because you grew up in a family

7:22

you loved children . You couldn't

7:24

now have children . How

7:27

did you wrap your head around that ?

7:30

I remember the first surgery

7:32

I had , which was to

7:34

go in and check and it could

7:36

have been a total hysterectomy . And I remember sitting

7:38

at a Sunday liturgy and

7:40

watching children and I just burst into tears

7:43

and I realized that , yes , I've

7:45

chosen this life , but all of the hardware

7:47

for the possibility to bear life

7:50

will be gone . And so then

7:52

I thought , do I ? So ? It really was a moment

7:54

of discernment for me even at that point in religious

7:56

life do I want to do this , or am I really called

7:59

to have children ? And

8:01

then I really sat with that for a while and

8:03

I said , no , this is my life . And if

8:06

that changes and I want to have children

8:08

, I know that there are other possible ways to do

8:10

that . And how can I still bear life

8:12

? In who I am and in what I do

8:14

, and so my purpose , my

8:17

intention and how I live is rooted

8:19

in that , in that sense of being

8:21

a woman and being mother in

8:24

some way , that nurturing mother

8:27

and a woman that I am

8:29

and that I have learned from my family . I have five

8:32

sisters and two . I'm one of five sisters

8:34

and two brothers , so it was like there was

8:36

a lot of maternal love and

8:38

paternal love in the family .

8:40

And you were part of that community and

8:44

there was love and there was teaching

8:46

, and and you were nurtured , even

8:48

in that community , when you were so very

8:50

young . Why did you decide

8:52

to ?

8:52

leave . So the health reasons , I think , caught

8:55

up with me after the sixth surgery . And so , very young , why did you decide to leave

8:57

? So the health reasons , I think , caught up with me after the sixth surgery . And so

8:59

the community I belonged to . You're right , they were

9:01

very supportive and very loving , and it

9:03

was life-giving in so

9:05

many other ways . When I looked

9:07

at the whole picture though the sense of a community

9:09

that's global and the opportunity

9:12

to travel and to be uprooted and

9:14

move on , I had to take a hard look

9:16

of saying I need to be grounded , with physicians

9:18

and doctors that can help

9:20

me along the journey , along

9:22

the way . And so I made a

9:24

very hard decision to leave , because

9:28

it was my life , it was my education

9:31

, I got my Master's of Divinity and

9:33

I was serving as a Director of Worship

9:35

. Everything of my

9:37

life felt wholly integrated , except for my health

9:40

, and that's a big issue . And so

9:42

it's a signal to say maybe I need

9:44

to get off this train and trust

9:46

that if I'm called to love

9:48

and serve , I will do it in another way

9:51

, and I made that

9:53

decision to leave after eight years .

9:57

It's a huge , huge , huge decision

9:59

.

10:00

Yes , At any point in one's life

10:02

, those relationships

10:05

, those life core

10:08

life decisions that we make that

10:10

can change us and pivot us in either way

10:12

are huge .

10:13

Yes that we make that can change us and

10:15

pivot us in either way , are huge . Yes

10:17

, when

10:25

you left , the world is a really hard place . Yes , how were you able to transition

10:27

here ? You left this cloistered community with

10:29

love and strength and support

10:32

. And now

10:35

what ? What did you ?

10:36

do . It was hard . It

10:38

was a hard transition and I

10:41

did have support from family and friends , and

10:43

the nuns as well , to sort of make that gradual

10:45

transition to secular life

10:47

. And the

10:51

image I used to people as

10:53

a signal to really make a pivot to

10:55

change was a jar of peanut butter . Because

10:58

when I left I was still doing church work

11:00

full time as a director of worship , as a

11:02

layperson , and I

11:04

was struggling to make ends meet , to pay rent

11:07

, pay , health insurance etc . And

11:09

so I was cutting , being as frugal

11:11

as possible , and for a period of three

11:13

months I ate peanut butter and jelly sandwiches

11:15

for my meals . And at

11:18

one point I just sort of stopped and saw the

11:20

jar of peanut butter and says I need to do

11:22

something different because I cannot sustain

11:24

my diet and

11:27

budget . And so it was like

11:29

it was this again breakthrough moment

11:31

that said I need to pivot and change

11:33

. And so within

11:35

me I felt , because of

11:37

living my life as a nun I truly believe

11:40

this that I felt empowered with courage

11:42

and confidence to change

11:44

when I needed to . And so I made

11:46

that pivot at midlife , with zero

11:48

business experience to the corporate

11:51

world . That was the scariest

11:53

thing I have done in my life and

11:56

I hope it's the only scariest thing

11:58

I do in my life moving forward . But

12:01

I knew I had to change because

12:03

, if not , I knew it was a life of dire

12:06

poverty and probably homelessness if

12:08

I continued , continued on that pace .

12:11

So you were desperate . Yes

12:13

, and why

12:15

Microsoft ? I mean , that

12:17

is such a contrast

12:19

it is Microsoft

12:22

.

12:23

At the time I was doing lay ministry , I was

12:25

working at a church in Redmond , washington

12:27

and a lot of parishioners and

12:29

people in the community were working

12:31

at Microsoft or former alum of Microsoft

12:34

who had worked with Bill Gates , and

12:36

they were great people and I

12:38

connected with their reasoning

12:41

and logic and drive

12:43

and I said to myself well , if I

12:45

want to pivot to the corporate world , I want

12:47

to work for the best , because I've heard stories

12:50

and I wanted to work for Microsoft , and

12:52

so I sought out coaching

12:54

from some of them and they said go for

12:56

it . But they all sort of smiled like you

12:59

know , like it's probably slim to impossible , but

13:01

we support you , kind of thing . And

13:03

so I thought and the other thing

13:05

is a lot I had read a Greek story

13:08

of Greek legend and this is my

13:10

just contemporary interpretation of that story

13:12

is of a general in an army

13:14

going to fight a battle from one island to the next

13:17

, a Greek isle , and the boats , the

13:19

canoes and stuff they row to shore to the island

13:21

to fight and he tells them burn your

13:23

boats . And they're looking at him . And so they

13:25

do that under orders . They go

13:27

and fight the battle and they win . And then they said to the

13:29

general now what we're stuck here ? And he

13:31

said it doesn't matter . And I said well then , why did you ask us

13:33

to burn the boats ? Because he said I wanted you to

13:35

be all in If you

13:38

knew you had an escape to go back

13:40

, and I wanted you to be all in to win this battle

13:42

. And we did , and now this is our home . So

13:44

it was that for me , choosing

13:47

to pivot to corporate was a burning of the

13:49

boat moment for me . So I was all

13:51

in and I knew that if someone gave me a

13:53

chance that

14:00

I would show up with my best and do my best and I was okay , no matter how I landed . If

14:02

it was only for a day or a month or whatever , I would be okay

14:04

with the outcome . So that's

14:07

how I decided to pivot . It took a couple

14:09

of years to get to Microsoft and

14:11

I worked in several startups

14:14

or friends helped me in getting

14:16

some jobs in corporate . And

14:19

then I applied 44 times at Microsoft

14:21

. 43 were rejections

14:24

and I had one manager who

14:26

gave me a chance and that made

14:28

all the difference . And I've been here 14

14:30

and a half years and continuing and

14:32

it's very grateful for that

14:34

opportunity amazing , but

14:37

it's your faith and

14:39

your perseverance that

14:41

got you there and that story I love

14:43

that story yes , it is

14:45

, it's and it's one of those things that it's , it's

14:48

this inner strength within us , and

14:50

I think all of us have that , and it's

14:52

how we are self-aware and

14:54

how we are like

14:56

being a nun . It was like being comfortable

14:59

in your own skin and learning to grow

15:01

to embrace all of that your imperfections

15:03

, your strengths and holding all

15:05

of that with grace and love

15:08

, self-love , and then moving

15:10

forward in that Like kind

15:13

of what Viktor Frankl says

15:15

like you know , we can't control a lot

15:17

, but we can choose how we respond , and

15:20

that's been very core to again

15:22

, to my values .

15:24

And you must have noticed a lot of burnout

15:26

at Microsoft . I

15:29

did Busy , busy

15:31

place . Yes Is that what inspired

15:34

you to write your book burn without

15:36

burning out yes , a couple

15:38

of things inspire .

15:39

That is that one during

15:41

covid , there was a lot of burnout . People were

15:43

working ridiculous hours at a ridiculous

15:46

pace even though we were awfully remote at home

15:48

and sort of that mentality . If you remember , during

15:50

covid , oh we'll be off work for two weeks

15:52

and then it turned into two years and two and

15:54

a half , etc . And so I was

15:57

really my paying attention to

15:59

the meetings that I was in , that people

16:01

people were either chippy or just burned

16:03

out or struggling and and

16:05

the sense of myself

16:08

all throughout my career in the tech world

16:10

is learning the people skills I

16:12

learned , but also the mindfulness in writing

16:15

and what would help help people . Because

16:34

I thought mindfulness as a nun

16:36

we called it contemplation , but it's the same

16:39

thing being present in the moment

16:41

without judgment , taking it all in

16:43

and engaging in the moment . But

16:46

I thought I can meditate and sit for

16:48

hours , but who has time for that in today's

16:50

world ? It feels like we're in this ball

16:52

pit in a bouncy house , everything coming at

16:54

us . So how do we know how to focus on the

16:56

right ball and let everything else go

16:58

? So I've worked through kind of

17:00

read through my journals as a nun , worked

17:02

through what were those techniques ? And

17:04

I came up with seven and I call them micro

17:07

mindfulness because they're like small

17:10

activities . You can do

17:12

that , you know , don't need any tools

17:14

, you have it all within you to do this and

17:17

it's . You can do it without a , without adding

17:19

one more thing to your calendar . And

17:21

so I started practicing them on

17:23

people and talking to people about how

17:26

do you deal with burnout and how do deal , and

17:28

we all have different ways . Burnout

17:30

hits us . The most common one , at least

17:32

for me , is like I'm just exhausted

17:34

, fully exhausted emotionally

17:36

, mentally , spiritually , even though I get enough

17:39

sleep , exercise and eat well . Then

17:41

I know , okay , something's up . And then

17:43

I ask myself , okay , who do I

17:45

need to talk to ? A doctor for my physical

17:47

health , a therapist for my mental health or

17:49

a spiritual director for my spiritual health ? A doctor for my physical

17:51

health , a therapist for my mental health or a spiritual director for my spiritual health ? And I've

17:53

been journaling since high school , so those tools helped

17:56

me create and I said I'm going to write this book

17:58

about how to help people and

18:03

what I'm learning is not only helping people in tech , but

18:05

it's helping everyone as a tool , and that's why I call

18:07

it micro-mindfulness . It's sort of habit stacking

18:10

that James Clear does , says in Atomic

18:12

Habits , of habit stacking some

18:14

activities that can help us improve

18:17

our well-being , be fully present

18:19

and embrace

18:22

the world as our full

18:24

, loving , strong self rooted

18:27

in purpose rooted

18:35

in purpose .

18:36

So it's perfect because it's micro Right . And in our busy , busy world , the first

18:38

thing we say is I have no time , I can't meditate

18:40

, it's my mind is too quick

18:43

, I don't want to calm it down , I have

18:45

things to do . And

18:47

you give one little micro technique

18:50

, micro mindfulness , because

18:52

those are techniques that you could do every

18:54

day , anytime , at your desk

18:57

, all the time . So what would

18:59

you tell someone ? A quick little

19:01

micro technique .

19:03

Yes , I tell people you have

19:06

time for mindfulness . Even

19:08

when you say my mind's racing , I don't have time , I said

19:10

yes , you do . For example , waiting

19:13

in line , waiting in traffic , pivoting

19:16

from one meeting to the next , and

19:18

so those may be a minute or more

19:20

. But if you've not tried mindfulness

19:22

before , I suggest

19:24

you can do micro mindfulness in 15

19:27

seconds , and I can . A story

19:29

I was at several meetings with

19:31

colleagues in leadership . We

19:33

were back-to-back meetings to try to solve

19:35

engineering requirements that were behind schedule

19:38

and by the third meeting

19:40

which I was leading , I could tell people were really

19:42

short with each other . We were stressed

19:44

. You could feel it and see it in

19:46

the calls that happened on virtually . So

19:49

when I started the meeting I said let's

19:51

just pause . I'm going to be a timer

19:53

for 15 seconds . Can we be all be

19:55

on camera and you don't have to say

19:57

anything but just be on camera , I'll

20:00

time . It Just take 15 seconds

20:02

of silence to breathe or just

20:04

be present so we can all be in the room to talk

20:06

about this agenda . And I

20:08

said go and I timed 15 seconds

20:10

and when I stopped one of the executives

20:13

said to me wow , I didn't

20:15

know I needed that , thank you

20:17

15 seconds

20:19

silence of

20:21

pausing intentionally , just to say

20:23

I'm in line

20:25

waiting , I'm frustrated by traffic , I'm stopped

20:28

. I'm going to take 15 seconds

20:30

and you can set on your phone Now you can set your timer

20:32

for 15 and an alarm to come off . Do that and

20:34

say I just want to be here . Breathe

20:37

, scan your body

20:39

. Where do you feel tension ? Breathe and let it go , and

20:42

if you have time for more than it's like , then

20:44

the light changes or something else goes

20:46

forward . That's one simple thing

20:48

and it's a pivot transition moment

20:51

, without any adding it to your calendar

20:53

, but it takes the intention and

20:55

the presence to do that .

20:58

Yes , yes , great

21:00

. That's a terrific tip . Anybody

21:02

can do it and I know because I

21:04

use these little techniques and they work

21:07

. Yes , if people are

21:09

just wondering about it , give it a try

21:11

. But , like you said , you

21:13

have to set the intention , because

21:16

if you don't , if you don't

21:18

make it a habit , it's not going

21:21

to happen . Yes , but

21:23

that's great , great advice . What

21:25

if somebody considering

21:28

a career change or a life change

21:30

and they say you know , I'm too old

21:32

, I cannot do that , I

21:34

am scared ? What would

21:36

you tell them ?

21:38

So thank you I for those listening

21:40

. I said all those questions to myself

21:43

at 45 , when I pivoted

21:45

to midlife , for a career change . I'm

21:47

too old , I'm scared . What can

21:49

I do ? I'm a former , you know maybe

21:51

not a lot of people may see this I'm a former nun . I , you

21:53

know , I have a degree . I have a master's

21:55

degree . It's not the right degree . You know all of the

21:58

self-talk that can convince me that

22:00

this is not the right way to go . And

22:02

yet what I would say

22:04

is let make

22:06

that list and then let it go and

22:09

then really sit . How

22:11

are you in your own self-awareness ? What

22:13

are those strengths that are so rooted

22:16

within us , despite

22:18

all of that negative self-talk ? And

22:21

I found mentors and friends

22:24

, kind of like my board of directors

22:26

of a career change , that I would check in

22:28

with them , just as kind of this helpful

22:31

boundary of that . So

22:34

that would be my recommendation

22:36

. I can't tell you what to do or what career

22:38

change to happen , but no matter where

22:41

that goes , I can . At

22:43

least for me it was an incredible learning

22:45

process . It was a scary process , but

22:47

that just the courage to take the next step

22:49

, to do the next training

22:52

, to go all in as this open

22:54

learning mindset , to say I'm

22:56

willing to grow , I'm willing to change

22:58

. It may not be perfect , it probably

23:01

looks really ugly and I probably

23:03

messed up a lot , but people

23:05

saw that I was hungry to

23:07

learn and hungry to grow

23:10

, and that's what I would say . Find

23:12

that hunger within you and let that

23:14

basically eat at you to change

23:16

in a good way , because

23:19

that's where your purpose is .

23:22

Terrific advice , mindfulness

23:35

coach and the author of Burn Without Burning Out Seven Micro Mindfulness Habits for

23:37

Clear Thinking , decisive Action and Recovery from

23:39

Burnout . Her mission is to empower

23:42

others to find nurturing stillness

23:44

in a very distracted world

23:47

. Where can people find you , denise

23:49

?

23:50

Thanks , Beverley , and thanks everyone for listening

23:52

. You can find me on denisepilescom

23:55

. That is my website . I have lots of free

23:57

resources there and also the place

23:59

that you can link to go buy my book , which is

24:01

available on Amazon and across

24:04

the globe , and I'm also

24:06

on all social media . You can find me on LinkedIn

24:08

, on Twitter , medium and

24:10

Substack , and I also offer a free

24:13

weekly newsletter just to provide three

24:15

micro mindfulness tips every week

24:17

and also a paid subscription

24:19

if you'd like to learn more , go deeper in

24:21

learning micro mindfulness habits

24:24

. So that's where you can find

24:26

me . I'd love , I would love hearing

24:28

your stories of how you're practicing mindfulness

24:30

, living your purpose and passion , and

24:33

I really appreciate you listening today . Thank

24:35

you .

24:36

Thank you . Thank you so very much

24:38

. All Denise's links

24:40

are going to be in the show notes and they're

24:42

also going to be on my site too , and

24:44

that's reinventimpossiblecom

24:46

. And now , my friends

24:48

, what's next for you ? Are you

24:50

just going through the motions or are

24:53

you really passionate about your

24:55

life ? Get my weekly self-coaching

24:57

tips to empower you through your journey

24:59

, and that link will also be in the

25:01

show notes too . You can

25:03

connect with me , Beverley Glazer , on all

25:06

social media platforms and in my positive

25:08

group of women on Facebook that's Women

25:10

Over 50 Rock , and if

25:12

you think I can help you in any way connect

25:15

those dots to your purpose and

25:17

your passion , please schedule a quick

25:19

Zoom , and that also links

25:21

in the show notes below . Thank

25:24

you for listening . Have

25:26

you enjoyed this conversation ? Subscribe

25:29

so you don't miss out on the next one , and

25:31

send this episode to a friend

25:33

. And always remember

25:36

that you have one life , so

25:38

live it with purpose and

25:41

passion .

25:48

Thank you for joining us . You can

25:50

connect with Bev on her website

25:52

, www . reinventimpossiblecom

25:55

and , while you're there , join

25:57

our newsletter Subscribe so

25:59

you don't miss an episode . Until

26:01

next time , keep aging with

26:03

purpose and passion and

26:05

celebrate life .